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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 28. Go back in thread:
Posted by JohnDoenut on December 10, 2001, at 18:04:40
In reply to Re: nononnoonoononono, posted by Lini on December 10, 2001, at 12:38:50
> I am going to have to concur with Augusta on the stripper concept. People that make money stripping *tend* to have some serious personal issues (especially around sex) and I am guessing that the environment you'd find yourself in won't be the most supportive for the things you are
>already dealing with.This is true and also if you are having problems, any problems, being in an environment like that may just make it worse.
However the need and want for money given things now is understandable. You read about college girls doing it to put themselves through school and then stopping. Maybe if you get the $ soon to put you back on your feet youll stop.
Posted by Mair on December 10, 2001, at 20:14:27
In reply to nononnoonoononono, posted by sar on December 10, 2001, at 10:52:32
Sar - I was going to take a break from posting much, but I couldn't let this one go. I don't buy that strippers are people who necessarily have personal problems but I do imagine that it's an awful job for anyone who doesn't have a strong sense of self. It's not the kind of job where you're getting or giving yourself alot of positive messages.
IMHO you do enough of a job on yourself as it is without putting yourself in this kind of environment (assuming this isn't all a joke). Besides stiletto heels hurt.
On the other hand, with all the second hand smoke, maybe you can quit smoking.
Mair
Posted by dreamer on December 10, 2001, at 20:14:42
In reply to nononnoonoononono, posted by sar on December 10, 2001, at 10:52:32
Posted by sar on December 10, 2001, at 21:49:02
In reply to Re: nononnoonoononono » sar, posted by Mair on December 10, 2001, at 20:14:27
dear all,
jeez Mair, i wish it were a joke. i stripped at age 18-19 and it was bad for my psyche, it paid the bills very very well but it all hurt, it's extreme exploitation of both the sexes and i've spoken against it since i took an acid trip (at 19), thought about it, and quit the next day.
stilletos do hurt, at least for the first few days. it is nervewracking to imagine myself on stage, i can't really dance but i can prance and stalk...
at first, years ago, i did it to make my life more amusing, i thought it would be glamorous. but really it's tiring, kills your sex drive, and gives you a weird feeling about men.
i got the job because i'm at the end of my rope, i'm like a gypsy now, i own nothing and debt collectors (from my hospital stays) have been calling...and i owe the county for my arrest a few months back.
one debt collector says that if i don't pay nearly $6000 in the month of January that i will have bad credit--which scares me; i am easily scared; i have no credit right now, or at least it's good--rental history and such--
it's the end of the line, a fallback, a strange ball of tears and bills...
Mair, i have to say that i am offended that you would even consider this a joke. if i could express the pain of this decision to folks in real life, i would. this goes for all of my posts. we are anonymous to each other, and can split open our wounds without having to worry about f___ing with reality. as Kid_A says, "what we do is secret."
i do worry about the smoke and freely available alcohol.
on the other hand, i don't even own a mattress or pillow. i am typing this message from generous friends' home...but i need to be on my own.
alot of strippers do have personal problems, a weak sense of self, disrespect for self, or are old alcoholics looking for free drinks all day or night.
it's an interesting job, but i am scared. i am also resourceful.
thanks to all,
sar
Posted by Krazy Kat on December 10, 2001, at 21:50:41
In reply to Re: nononnoonoononono » sar, posted by Mair on December 10, 2001, at 20:14:27
> Mair:
That was a very funny post! I think we need to look at it from a light point of view, as well as a serious one.
I'm against the job, sar already knows why, but keeping a sense of humor in this economy is essential. I was "this far" away from bankruptcy a month ago. Now, for the moment, we're O.K. At first I was terrified, then I decided "what can they do?" The government wants you to work, wants you to pay back your debts. I really don't think it's a case of "them" willingly leaving you out in the cold. There are resources.
Sar, don't do anything you're not certain about that could affect the way you feel about yourself.
- K.
Posted by JohnDoenut on December 10, 2001, at 22:27:49
In reply to Re: nononnoonoononono, posted by sar on December 10, 2001, at 21:49:02
>it's extreme exploitation of both the sexes and
> it's an interesting job, but i am scared. i am also resourceful.You should be scared. A lot of rifraf mafioso types are associated with that stuff and may want to take advantage. But you probably know that already.
Since we're being honest Ill tell you something. When I was younger and didnt know any better I went with guys to strip bars for the first few times and it was quite something to me having never seen it before and also just well you know. . .
But later as I got older if I would go for a bachelor party or something I was not as amused. In fact I was not comfortable with it anymore. The last time I went was about a year ago for a friends bachelor party. It was sort of a chore. Ive decided now that Im not going to any more bachelor parties. Or at least Ill go to the dinner part but not the strip bar part. It just makes me queasy now. And believe me I can appreciate the form of the human body however I'd rather see a painting or my SO. . .
JohnD
Posted by Kristi on December 10, 2001, at 23:26:29
In reply to Re: nononnoonoononono, posted by JohnDoenut on December 10, 2001, at 22:27:49
Strip joints arent all that you see on t.v. some of them are respectable..and if it's a means to an end Sar, I see no reason not to do it. you know yourself. I do know from personal experience(living in Las Vegas) that getting in with the wrong crowd can just about kill you... but I also know some very well together strippers, that are in it for the money and not the job. You know yourself well enough. I personal wouldn't do it..... but I also have nothing against it. a job is a job. People have been telling me since I moved here to do it but Hell... I'm just too shy. I don't like most of the men that hang out in those joints anyway.
If you see a problem starting..... with your self esteem or any other problem that starts to inensify..... you mentioned self worth..... just get out. Your not locked in their don't remember. You don't strike me as one to give in to peer pressure......... well, you've been in the business already and you know what it's all about. I won't lecture you. as I said... I know some woman who strip to get thru college and they are just as normal as the next. Please let me know how it goes. Will be thinking alot about you. Love ya kiddo, Kristi
> >it's extreme exploitation of both the sexes and
> > it's an interesting job, but i am scared. i am also resourceful.
>
> You should be scared. A lot of rifraf mafioso types are associated with that stuff and may want to take advantage. But you probably know that already.
>
> Since we're being honest Ill tell you something. When I was younger and didnt know any better I went with guys to strip bars for the first few times and it was quite something to me having never seen it before and also just well you know. . .
>
> But later as I got older if I would go for a bachelor party or something I was not as amused. In fact I was not comfortable with it anymore. The last time I went was about a year ago for a friends bachelor party. It was sort of a chore. Ive decided now that Im not going to any more bachelor parties. Or at least Ill go to the dinner part but not the strip bar part. It just makes me queasy now. And believe me I can appreciate the form of the human body however I'd rather see a painting or my SO. . .
>
> JohnD
Posted by christophrejmc on December 11, 2001, at 0:37:08
In reply to Re: nononnoonoononono, posted by Kristi on December 10, 2001, at 23:26:29
Posted by Anna Laura on December 11, 2001, at 0:38:01
In reply to nononnoonoononono, posted by sar on December 10, 2001, at 10:52:32
Hi Sar,
I'm sorry about what you're going through.
I don't really know what to say mainly because of culture difference : i live in northern italy and don't know much about Las Vegas except what i see on tv or in the movies. I've been in the U.S. for a while (i was an exchange student in New York back in the eighties), but i never bumped in to a stripping club. A guy in high-school who was a male stripper asked me to join the strip-tease scene in Long Island but i refused his offer; i don't know what i'd have done in the case i really nedeed to earn some money: luckily i wasn't so desperate cause i was living at my boyfriend's house and didn't have to pay my bills.
Besides that, we do have stripping dancers in Italy but there are some valid alternatives such working as a "cubist" which means the dancer on the "cube": it's about dancing for money in a discotheque : you don't have to take your clothes off or anything like that, still you have to dance all night through. You are very well paid: they made me an offer of 800.000 liras something like ten years ago (that would be like 400 dollars for an average of five hours dancing).
Don't you have anything like that in U.S. ?
Just wondering.Good luck and take care
Posted by Krazy Kat on December 11, 2001, at 10:05:27
In reply to Re: nononnoonoononono, posted by sar on December 10, 2001, at 21:49:02
Oh, sar, I'm sorry. Perhpas we're not absoutely certain when you're serious sometimes.
I realize it is a horrible decision - don't worry about bad creadit - it can be fixed quickly and easily. I've Really been there.
Don't do it, sar. It obviously will be really bad for you. And, really, I think you might regret it later. Sounds like you already do.
- K.
Posted by mair on December 11, 2001, at 11:43:35
In reply to Re: nononnoonoononono » sar, posted by Krazy Kat on December 11, 2001, at 10:05:27
Sar - harkening back to the thread on words, this is what my last shrink used to call an "empathic failure." I should have known better - you don't generally kid around about stuff in your threads. It just seemed like it came out of left field (the stuff about being a stripper). I think I was trying to hedge my bets. I feel like I'm kind of slipping (or very off balance) and thus my instincts about things seem to be all wrong. All the more reason to lurk but not post until I've managed to settle down some.
I would seriously never trivialize anything going on in your life, and I'm sorry that I made it seem that way.
Can't you think of any other kind of job?
Mair
Posted by sar on December 11, 2001, at 12:55:16
In reply to Sorry Sar, posted by mair on December 11, 2001, at 11:43:35
dear Mair,
thanks for your reply. i've always been taught to stand on my own, never be in debt, so i'm terribly frightened of bad credit, especially because i need to buy a car,
i can't think of another job. i know that waiting tables can bring in some dough, but i don't have the mojo for carrying large trays without dropping them (i've tried).
this is a job i know i can do. it frightens me because it's not positive--like the bookstore helped me psychically--but my mind has got to be on money now.
i couldn't be a cubicle dancer because i can't really dance! stripping has nothing to do with dancing ability....
i've already spent hundreds on a strip-outfit, shoes and jewelry, so i feel compelled to do this, especially since i've scored the job.
i don't think i'll post on this for awhile. i appreciate the concern, but an old friend of mine once called me a "tough cookie." and somehow i am. reboundful and resourceful. he used to send me alot of Alice in Wonderland stuff--the girl who went through horrors but retained her fair Brit manners throughout--
and to give myself credit, that's how i feel. frightened and already very wary, but there's this quote from Charles Bukowski that sticks in my head: "What matters most is how you walk through the fire."
i suppose i'm a bit like Bukowski, i don't feel good unless unless i feel bad.
and this sounds horrible, but i want to maintain some sort of decent standard of living.
i feel strong somehow.
thanks for reading...
sar
Posted by mair on December 11, 2001, at 15:20:55
In reply to Re: Sorry Sar, posted by sar on December 11, 2001, at 12:55:16
Sar - the only person I've ever known who worked as a stripper was this woman who, while in college, spent her junior year abroad living in Lapland. After she got back she built a lap hovel (no bigger than a tent) on someone's property in the woods, and spent her senior year living there through rain, sleet and snow etc, with no plumbing or electricity. After college she moved out to California, and I'm told, anyway, became a stripper for awhile because the money was pretty good. She always struck me as someone who was very comfortable with who she was, and didn't need the opinions of others to define herself.
I don't think there's anything wrong with being a stripper so long as you're comfortable with the reasons for doing it. If you are, you should be able to filter out the negative messages. I also (emphatically) don't think there's anything wrong with doing something like this because it's your best opportunity to get yourself out of debt and to maintain a standard of living. You shouldn't be apologetic about this. Jeesh it's not like you're selling drugs to schoolchildren or fencing stolen property.
I don't think the quote about the walking through the fire, means that you have to feel bad to feel good. I think it means that you can find strength through any number of things, and maybe for you that means facing some adversity and trying to turn it into a positive. My own sense of self-esteem being what it is, this wouldn't work for me, but I hope it does for you. I also hope that if it doesn't, you are able to pull away and congratulate yourself for doing what it seemed might work best.
If you're sick of this topic already, don't respond - just know you'll always find support here since you've given others so much.
Mair
Posted by Krazy Kat on December 11, 2001, at 18:37:16
In reply to Re: Sorry Sar, posted by mair on December 11, 2001, at 15:20:55
Posted by sar on December 12, 2001, at 22:08:42
In reply to Sar: Please stay in touch... (nm), posted by Krazy Kat on December 11, 2001, at 18:37:16
i'll be moving this weekend and won't have a computer in my apartment, but my buds have internet-access that they'll let me use. i guess i'll post more infrequently, but i'm more easily accesible by e-mail. my name is highlighted in case you feel like sending a message.
i want to thank you all--especially WendyB, Krazy Kat, Kristi, Kid_A, Greg A, Roo, Mair, Anna Laura, ShelliR, Mitch, Dr. Eamer...this website has been invaluable to me, moreso than therapy, and i appreciate all of you for your continuing support.
i'm drinking chardonnay. i'm getting emotional; i can hardly believe that you are all real people in remote areas...kisses to all. i'll be back! this message is just to assure you that i'm not mysteriously disappearing.
my mojo's rising!
love,
sar
Posted by Kristi on December 13, 2001, at 1:01:09
In reply to Re: Sar: Please stay in touch..., posted by sar on December 12, 2001, at 22:08:42
I Will definately e-mail you now that permission has been granted. Hango in there kiddo. lv, kristi> i'll be moving this weekend and won't have a computer in my apartment, but my buds have internet-access that they'll let me use. i guess i'll post more infrequently, but i'm more easily accesible by e-mail. my name is highlighted in case you feel like sending a message.
>
> i want to thank you all--especially WendyB, Krazy Kat, Kristi, Kid_A, Greg A, Roo, Mair, Anna Laura, ShelliR, Mitch, Dr. Eamer...this website has been invaluable to me, moreso than therapy, and i appreciate all of you for your continuing support.
>
> i'm drinking chardonnay. i'm getting emotional; i can hardly believe that you are all real people in remote areas...kisses to all. i'll be back! this message is just to assure you that i'm not mysteriously disappearing.
>
> my mojo's rising!
>
> love,
> sar
Posted by Anna Laura on December 13, 2001, at 2:28:07
In reply to Re: Sar: Please stay in touch..., posted by sar on December 12, 2001, at 22:08:42
> i'll be moving this weekend and won't have a computer in my apartment, but my buds have internet-access that they'll let me use. i guess i'll post more infrequently, but i'm more easily accesible by e-mail. my name is highlighted in case you feel like sending a message.
>
> i want to thank you all--especially WendyB, Krazy Kat, Kristi, Kid_A, Greg A, Roo, Mair, Anna Laura, ShelliR, Mitch, Dr. Eamer...this website has been invaluable to me, moreso than therapy, and i appreciate all of you for your continuing support.
>
> i'm drinking chardonnay. i'm getting emotional; i can hardly believe that you are all real people in remote areas...kisses to all. i'll be back! this message is just to assure you that i'm not mysteriously disappearing.
>
> my mojo's rising!
>
> love,
> sar
Hi sar,
Have been daydreaming about you coming here in Italy under the warm sun of the Riviera, staying at my house near the shore with my two cats and my fianceé, smelling the sea-breeze, teaching in the American School down the road, getting your meds and therapy for free (you don't have to pay for anti-depressant meds and public mental health services), being my friend, having a ball together in the beach club Monumento watching the sun set by the rocks.I know i'm crazy, i'll probably sound like i did too much ecstasy
Posted by JohnDoenut on December 13, 2001, at 11:44:15
In reply to daydreaming: may be i'm crazy, posted by Anna Laura on December 13, 2001, at 2:28:07
>I know i'm crazy, i'll probably sound like i did too much ecstasy
Did you do too much?! :)
Posted by IsoM on December 13, 2001, at 14:55:53
In reply to daydreaming: may be i'm crazy, posted by Anna Laura on December 13, 2001, at 2:28:07
I'll come!! Promise to be real quiet, just sit & watch the sea & play with your cats. Can I bring mine too? I'm also a good cook & will feed you lots of exotic & healthy cooking from around the world!!
I'm not serious about coming, but oh! I wish I was. It's 5 degrees Celcius & dripping, pouring, drizzling rain. Now I know where the sun is - at your place.
********************************************************************************
> Have been daydreaming about you coming here in Italy under the warm sun of the Riviera, staying at my house near the shore with my two cats and my fianceé, smelling the sea-breeze, teaching in the American School down the road, getting your meds and therapy for free (you don't have to pay for anti-depressant meds and public mental health services), being my friend, having a ball together in the beach club Monumento watching the sun set by the rocks.
>
> I know i'm crazy, i'll probably sound like i did too much ecstasy
Posted by Anna Laura on December 14, 2001, at 2:34:13
In reply to Re: daydreaming: may be i'm crazy » Anna Laura, posted by IsoM on December 13, 2001, at 14:55:53
> I'll come!! Promise to be real quiet, just sit & watch the sea & play with your cats. Can I bring mine too? I'm also a good cook & will feed you lots of exotic & healthy cooking from around the world!!
>
> I'm not serious about coming, but oh! I wish I was. It's 5 degrees Celcius & dripping, pouring, drizzling rain. Now I know where the sun is - at your place.
You know what's funny? We're getting an atmospheric disturbance from Siberia at the moment and it's getting cold (0-3 celsius). Well, it's December, and this is a reasonable temperature for Northern Italy after all.
They have got ice and snow in the other towns. The Riviera is somehow protected from the mountain chains we got right besides the coast and the weather is milder most of winter months. It rarely snows, and when it does it's just for a few days and it melts away quite easily. Usually we got a shift in temperature by the end of January and we often get gorgeous sunny days just like in Spring. Most of northern italians envy us because of that and they often rush down here during week-ends to get the sun and to enjoy our warm temperatures. I sometimes envy them because of the snow though cause they can ski most of winter months, but i can't do it cause it's damn expensive. Well, i think i've talked enough about my country. Perhaps you don't give a hack about that. Hope i didn't bother.
Posted by IsoM on December 14, 2001, at 15:59:28
In reply to Re: daydreaming: may be i'm crazy: it's cooold!, posted by Anna Laura on December 14, 2001, at 2:34:13
Heck, no Anna, you're not boring me!
I'm fascinated by other places & seeing I can't visit them, read a lot about different lands & cultures instead. I'm always checking what the weather is like in other places on the net or weather channel. I'm an information junkie. Whenever I meet someone from a different country, I inudate them with questions about it.Here in the very south-west corner of Canada, it's quite mild, not like most places in my country. It's even been called Canada's banana belt & people honestly grow bananas here outside, year round. I think they're just ornamental bananas - don't know if anyone gets fruit from them. They're used as striking focal points in a garden.
We've been having cold weather for the past couple of weeks. Twice I had to take frost off my windshield & once we got about 1/2" of snow. Gone the next day. I like my snow on mountain tops where it looks pretty.
We have flowers blooming all year long here - ones like pansy, asters, some bellflowers, etc. And then in February, the daffodils, hellebores, crocus, & snowdrops all start blooming. I really love it here, just don't care for the cloudy, wet winters.
Posted by Katey on December 14, 2001, at 16:23:57
In reply to I'm Always Happy To Learn of Other Places :) » Anna Laura, posted by IsoM on December 14, 2001, at 15:59:28
Nebraska. fainting hot in the summer, below freezing in the winter, and completely unpredictable in the spring and fall.
> Heck, no Anna, you're not boring me!
> I'm fascinated by other places & seeing I can't visit them, read a lot about different lands & cultures instead. I'm always checking what the weather is like in other places on the net or weather channel. I'm an information junkie. Whenever I meet someone from a different country, I inudate them with questions about it.
>
> Here in the very south-west corner of Canada, it's quite mild, not like most places in my country. It's even been called Canada's banana belt & people honestly grow bananas here outside, year round. I think they're just ornamental bananas - don't know if anyone gets fruit from them. They're used as striking focal points in a garden.
>
> We've been having cold weather for the past couple of weeks. Twice I had to take frost off my windshield & once we got about 1/2" of snow. Gone the next day. I like my snow on mountain tops where it looks pretty.
>
> We have flowers blooming all year long here - ones like pansy, asters, some bellflowers, etc. And then in February, the daffodils, hellebores, crocus, & snowdrops all start blooming. I really love it here, just don't care for the cloudy, wet winters.
Posted by Anna Laura on December 15, 2001, at 4:20:35
In reply to I'm Always Happy To Learn of Other Places :) » Anna Laura, posted by IsoM on December 14, 2001, at 15:59:28
> Heck, no Anna, you're not boring me!
> I'm fascinated by other places & seeing I can't visit them, read a lot about different lands & cultures instead.
Great! I love people who are curious about other cultures.
Posted by IsoM on December 15, 2001, at 14:49:01
In reply to Re: I'm Always Happy To Learn of Other Places :), posted by Anna Laura on December 15, 2001, at 4:20:35
I'm not blowing my own horn, just relating what others have said of me, actually to my surprise.
I'm very adaptable but I don't even realise it. I guess 'cause I love so many wonderful qualitites of other cultures, I've made them my own. We had a Japanese teacher stay with us one summer & she said I was so Japanese in my manners, how I sat, & talked, etc. A friend who moved from France told me I was so French. A Punjabi friend thinks I'd make a good Punjabi except I'm too forward, generally the women are taught to be shy & retiring. Some friends have also said I'm so fiery & passionate about life like an Italian. I lived in China town in Vancouver for a few years too & had the little Chinese neighbour children visit me regularly, tryin to teach me Chinese.
Same with other friends from other cultures. I think it's just because I've been around many wonderful people from other parts of the world who've moved here to Canada (it's supposed to be very multi-cultural in the larger centres), it's just naturally to pick up the good in them.
I lived for 14 miserable years of my life in the prairies of Canada, small town, where people thought me totally weird & avoided me. The poor resident Chinese family that moved in were called Chinks. I'd rather move into Hell than go back there again.
***********************************************************************************************
> Great! I love people who are curious about other cultures.
Posted by Anna Laura on December 17, 2001, at 1:49:53
In reply to Other Places: for Anna » Anna Laura, posted by IsoM on December 15, 2001, at 14:49:01
> I'm not blowing my own horn, just relating what others have said of me, actually to my surprise.
>
> I'm very adaptable but I don't even realise it. I guess 'cause I love so many wonderful qualitites of other cultures, I've made them my own. We had a Japanese teacher stay with us one summer & she said I was so Japanese in my manners, how I sat, & talked, etc. A friend who moved from France told me I was so French. A Punjabi friend thinks I'd make a good Punjabi except I'm too forward, generally the women are taught to be shy & retiring. Some friends have also said I'm so fiery & passionate about life like an Italian. I lived in China town in Vancouver for a few years too & had the little Chinese neighbour children visit me regularly, tryin to teach me Chinese.
>
> Same with other friends from other cultures. I think it's just because I've been around many wonderful people from other parts of the world who've moved here to Canada (it's supposed to be very multi-cultural in the larger centres), it's just naturally to pick up the good in them.
>
> I lived for 14 miserable years of my life in the prairies of Canada, small town, where people thought me totally weird & avoided me. The poor resident Chinese family that moved in were called Chinks. I'd rather move into Hell than go back there again.
>
>If you want to post my e-mail address is: acabwork@tin.it
This is the end of the thread.
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