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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by akc on December 4, 2001, at 12:42:53
I stand here feeling so miserable. Full of sadness, fear, aloneness, shame. Overwhelmed by all the feelings. Desperately wanting relief. I have two ways I can go -- my way, seeking immediate relief of some sort -- or trusting my therapist, and sitting in this misery. On one level I know I need to trust and endure. But on another level, I don't know if I can.
I know this is not some type of horrible physical pain that I'm seeking relief from -- I almost wish it were -- there would be no guilt or shame in asking for a pill, or if it was so awful, the end. I don't have the strength. It is too much.
akc
Posted by Greg on December 4, 2001, at 13:05:55
In reply to At a crossroads, posted by akc on December 4, 2001, at 12:42:53
> I stand here feeling so miserable. Full of sadness, fear, aloneness, shame. Overwhelmed by all the feelings. Desperately wanting relief. I have two ways I can go -- my way, seeking immediate relief of some sort -- or trusting my therapist, and sitting in this misery. On one level I know I need to trust and endure. But on another level, I don't know if I can.
>
> I know this is not some type of horrible physical pain that I'm seeking relief from -- I almost wish it were -- there would be no guilt or shame in asking for a pill, or if it was so awful, the end. I don't have the strength. It is too much.
>
> akcakc,
You don't really know me and I don't really know you, but I always read your posts. I've seen your highs and your lows, but I've never seen you in this much pain.
Is hospitalization an option for you right now? It might give you a chance to get out from under the pressure, reflect, relax and get some focus on where you want to head. It sounds like you have an understanding employer who might be willing to give you some time off for this.
This may sound very selfish of me, but I like having you here. I want you to be around for a very long time. I'm afraid if you don't get the right kind of help very soon, that may not happen.
I guess what I'm trying to say, is that I care.
Greg
Posted by Dinah on December 4, 2001, at 13:07:07
In reply to At a crossroads, posted by akc on December 4, 2001, at 12:42:53
I certainly understand what you are saying. One thing that helps sometimes for me in this situation is 1/2 to 1 mg Klonopin. It sometimes reduces the agitated, itchy-crawly feeling to a bearable level. Is that possible for you? I know you have worked hard to abstain from quick fixes. Can you call your therapist or pdoc? How about some vigorous exercise or (forgive me here) sexual release? If all else fails, try holding an ice cube. There are some other ideas on alternative things to do at www.palace.net/~llama/psych/guide.
It's at least worth a try.
And there is no shame in this. We are all trying to cope as best we can.
Posted by Dinah on December 4, 2001, at 13:36:11
In reply to At a crossroads, posted by akc on December 4, 2001, at 12:42:53
By the way, akc, if you don't mind my asking, what kind of therapy does your therapist use? It sounds as if she might be being a bit rigid about the zen acceptance and observing of emotions. You shouldn't feel ashamed about asking for a suitable medication to help you through the lowest times. It sounds a bit like the DBT therapy I have been reading about, but I thought part of DBT is not holding rigidly to any position.
Also, Greg is right. If you don't feel you are safe right now, you should let your doctors know.
Posted by susan C on December 4, 2001, at 13:39:57
In reply to At a crossroads, posted by akc on December 4, 2001, at 12:42:53
Dear akc,
It is pouring rain, my feet are cold, i didn't want to get out of bed today. I read your posts and I think about writing something about me, to share. I am not sure. I don't know what to say to you. Maybe, only that I am listening with my eyes?
I thought that maybe the sedative the dentist gave me was helping my mood, but it is just coincidence. I know that now.
Maybe, may be, you and I can sift through this c*** and find one thing that is ok? one point of clarity, one next step?
I am going to go dust my couch.
Mouse with the lemon oil dust cloth
sc
Posted by akc on December 4, 2001, at 13:45:29
In reply to Re: At a crossroads » akc, posted by Dinah on December 4, 2001, at 13:36:11
I guess part of the question is suitability. I've talked to my pdoc. I'm not to the point of suicide that I need hospitilization -- there is no danger of that while my mom is alive. But my pdoc will not give me the "good" stuff -- I'm a recovering alcoholic and she is very strict on that line.
The thing with my T -- well with all of my T's for that matter -- is whether I trust them. I want to cut -- to escape these feelings, to dissociate. But just one look above at the thread on cutting -- what condemnation you can get for such behavior. I don't think my therapist is condemning my choices -- she just doesn't think I can get well if I keep making them. I just don't think I can stay alive without them. I am really miserable at this very moment. Horribly so. But I have said that, what, a dozen times in the past few days.
You and greg are right -- I do need to stay safe, somehow. It is just a matter of how.
Greg -- while work is supportive, it is a matter of degree -- I do need to work some -- we are knee deep in work and they wouldn't understand hospitilazation right now unless it was physical (or if I could have my computer hooked up so I could keep working!).
akc
Posted by Augusta on December 4, 2001, at 14:06:53
In reply to At a crossroads, posted by akc on December 4, 2001, at 12:42:53
akc,
Here is what concerns me about your therapist's apparent position -- what does he or she say that you will "get" out of "enduring"? what evidence does he or she have to persuade you that you will indeed reap a desirable result?
I just think that the degree of pain you are in is pretty appalling, and one ought to have an *awfully* good reason for going through it cold turkey (so to speak) I know that when I was giving up drinking, or when I was waiting for an SSRI to start to take effect, I would obsessively read and re-read all the literature that suggested that my present pain was likely to result in future gain. That would be what would help me keep going.
In my (very) humble opinion, you are entitled either to some genuine symptomatic relief or to some pretty convincing reassurance as to the utility of all that you are feeling.
As far as cutting is concerned, my personal opinion (as a sometime cutter) is that what is so horrible about cutting are the feelings that drive one to it. I always think that other folks should focus on the awfulness of such powerful feelings, rather than on their own queasy reaction to the a temporary outcome of those feelings.
I guess my thoughts are clearing up as I write this, because I think my final thought would be this -- how long is this supposed to go on? I would think that your therapist ought either to be able to give you some real information about that *or* you are entitled to more assistance than you are getting.
(So what if you didn't do the whole "acceptance / cold turkey" thing this time -- you have already shown your endurance, your determination. Would it really be so harmful if you were given a respite?)
Posted by Greg on December 4, 2001, at 14:17:36
In reply to Re: At a crossroads - Greg Dinah, posted by akc on December 4, 2001, at 13:45:29
> I guess part of the question is suitability. I've talked to my pdoc. I'm not to the point of suicide that I need hospitilization -- there is no danger of that while my mom is alive. But my pdoc will not give me the "good" stuff -- I'm a recovering alcoholic and she is very strict on that line.
>
> The thing with my T -- well with all of my T's for that matter -- is whether I trust them. I want to cut -- to escape these feelings, to dissociate. But just one look above at the thread on cutting -- what condemnation you can get for such behavior. I don't think my therapist is condemning my choices -- she just doesn't think I can get well if I keep making them. I just don't think I can stay alive without them. I am really miserable at this very moment. Horribly so. But I have said that, what, a dozen times in the past few days.
>
> You and greg are right -- I do need to stay safe, somehow. It is just a matter of how.
>
> Greg -- while work is supportive, it is a matter of degree -- I do need to work some -- we are knee deep in work and they wouldn't understand hospitilazation right now unless it was physical (or if I could have my computer hooked up so I could keep working!).
>
> akcakc,
I'm in recovery too, 14 years in January. It's funny, but me and my psych look at things differently with the treatment of my depression. We see it and my sobriety as separate issues. I guess it's a point of view thing. I really feel that if I allow my depression to spiral out of control, at some point in time I'm going to drink. And if I drink again, I'm going to die. Or worse, maybe I won't. So I do whatever it takes.
I hope you know that I don't condemn you because you cut, I just don't understand why you do it. I don't understand how it benefits you. And I'm not asking you to explain. I accept that it makes you feel better, but it will always puzzle me.
I posted my e-mail to you the other day, I check it often when I'm home. Please feel free to write me anytime you want, I will write back. You've got a friend if you want one.
Greg
Posted by Simcha on December 4, 2001, at 14:24:16
In reply to At a crossroads, posted by akc on December 4, 2001, at 12:42:53
akc,
Please hang in there and ask for even more help than you think you might need. My therapist would tell me to think about how much help I need and then she told me to ask for double that. I always tend to think I need less help than I really need.
Hugs!
I hope it gets better,
Simcha.> I stand here feeling so miserable. Full of sadness, fear, aloneness, shame. Overwhelmed by all the feelings. Desperately wanting relief. I have two ways I can go -- my way, seeking immediate relief of some sort -- or trusting my therapist, and sitting in this misery. On one level I know I need to trust and endure. But on another level, I don't know if I can.
>
> I know this is not some type of horrible physical pain that I'm seeking relief from -- I almost wish it were -- there would be no guilt or shame in asking for a pill, or if it was so awful, the end. I don't have the strength. It is too much.
>
> akc
Posted by akc on December 4, 2001, at 16:18:52
In reply to Re: At a crossroads » akc, posted by Simcha on December 4, 2001, at 14:24:16
Just had a long talk on the phone. And wanted to post to clear up some misunderstandings I had on what she said. She did not say I just had to sit with these feelings. Instead, she says I need to learn how to give self-comfort as I am feeling this. Something that I have no idea of how to do. As giving comfort to a child. So I have to practice, living through this pain, hoping to God I don't snap in the meantime.
And she wants me to go to the hospital if I can't keep myself safe.
:-(
Posted by ChrisK on December 4, 2001, at 17:15:31
In reply to My T, posted by akc on December 4, 2001, at 16:18:52
> And she wants me to go to the hospital if I can't keep myself safe.
>AKC,
I have read your angst over the last few days and although I am not a cutter I have contemplated it many times. I just never had what it took to do it even though I did fail at severe OD's twice. Both times landed me in the hospital and that was the best place for me. There also came a time when I did admit myself again voluntarily.
It may seem like the hospital is not an option because of your work but you would be surprised how good it can work out. Whether you know it or not there are a lot of people you work with who know that you are hurting. They may not know why or how deep it goes but they do know that there is a major problem plagueing you.
It's not going to shock or disappoint anyone you work with if you need to take some time off to get your life in order.
I didn't know what to expect the first time I went in but I felt some relief before going home. After a couple of more trips I started to understand what was expected of me from my treatment and I was able to leave with better feeling of self worth.
A trip to the hospital is not a last resort - feelings of suicide or cutting are last resorts. You are the only one in a position to help yourself and that may mean turning to strangers for help.
I always felt safe in a hospital and I can assure you that they are nothing like you have made them out to be in your mind. They are very pleasant places with nurses who are willing to go out of their way to make sure that you have the best care. They listen and talk and care. They may not have the title of Therapist but they are as good as any therapist you will meet. Time means nothing and your mental health comes first. These are the people I met in my stays.
Don't be afraid to give it a try. It's better than the options you have built up in your mind.
If you don'tpost for the next few days I hope it is because you have taken this option. We'll be here when you geet back and so will your job.
Stay alive with us,
Chris
Posted by JohnDoenut on December 4, 2001, at 17:55:22
In reply to Re: At a crossroads, posted by susan C on December 4, 2001, at 13:39:57
> I am going to go dust my couch.
Dont forget after the dusting that it needs a proper potato to go with it. . . ;-)
Posted by susan C on December 4, 2001, at 18:36:44
In reply to My T, posted by akc on December 4, 2001, at 16:18:52
Dear akc,
A long long time ago, I learned, through talk therapy with my pdoc, that I needed to love 'my child with in' I eventually visually saw me as the shy little girl, I was, next to me as a grown up woman, and the grown up woman gathered the little frightened girl up in her arms and gave her a big hug.
BTW I have a baked potato in the refridgerator, do you think I should put it on my couch?
an old mouse thinking about a baby mouse
scI revisit that vision when I am so sad.
> Just had a long talk on the phone. And wanted to post to clear up some misunderstandings I had on what she said. She did not say I just had to sit with these feelings. Instead, she says I need to learn how to give self-comfort as I am feeling this. Something that I have no idea of how to do. As giving comfort to a child. So I have to practice, living through this pain, hoping to God I don't snap in the meantime.
>
> And she wants me to go to the hospital if I can't keep myself safe.
>
> :-(
Posted by akc on December 4, 2001, at 20:19:51
In reply to akc-little girl- potato and mouse, posted by susan C on December 4, 2001, at 18:36:44
In the past, when I have envisioned that small little child, I have been horribly triggered -- now I can barely even see her. I don't know that I am capable of even loving myself. Not in time of saving myself.
This is the end of the thread.
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