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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Rzip on October 22, 2000, at 23:35:09
Cass,
Are you thinking about suicide? If you are, you shouldn't feel guilty about it.
More importantly, we can not help you if you won't be direct about it. Afterall, we are here to listen and support one another.
Note: In a crisis, please ALSO get help in person.
Posted by Cass on October 23, 2000, at 0:02:48
In reply to Cass, are you thinking about ..., posted by Rzip on October 22, 2000, at 23:35:09
I've been going through hell. I have been genuinely unstable this week, and yes, I have been thinking about suicide. However, the last hours have been a little better, and I can only hope it is a trend. The problems I've been having are the same ol' problems as always, so I really don't know how to explain the severity of what I have been going through.
Posted by Rzip on October 23, 2000, at 0:44:43
In reply to Re: Cass, are you thinking about ..., posted by Cass on October 23, 2000, at 0:02:48
> Cass,
I also would like to see you climb out of this depression. But, since I do not know you as well as you know yourself, I hesitate to be too optimistic. So, I would really like to help you ease your stress and anxiety. It must feel awlful to be in such a limbo state of mind.
Please feel no obligation to answer any or all of my questions. I am just so concerned about you. I really don't want to see you in such a distressed state. You posted your thread on "Reasons to live" on the 20th of October. Wow, what pain you must have endured these last couple of days!
I was wondering if you want to share with us what prompted the death thoughts. From your previous thread on "reasons to live" you must feel so bad to be thinking about death. I know I would be extremely miserable if I started to think about suicide again. Usually, in my depressive state, I sometimes start to formulate a plan. How about you?
I am really hoping that you have someone close by you tonight to support you through the next couple of hours. Do you?
I think all of us who has contemplated suicide eventually realize that death is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. I am sure that even in the darkest hours, you are still faced with glimmers of hope, options, and alternatives. Perhaps, you would like to share with us some of those options...
You know, I understand that you are very hesitant and perhaps guilty about your current state of mind. Please feel free to write back to me. At the same time, I was wondering if I can have your permission to ask the others on this board to respond. I understand that you hesitate to make a "big deal" out of this. But, this is a support group and I think its mission should be honored. What do you think? May I contact some of the other regulars on this board? Actually, I was thinking a professional respondent would be better. However, I do not want to scare you away...so it is your decision. I trust that you have been in relatively similar situations before, so you know best.
Please, I would really like to hear from you TONIGHT.
And of course, you know this because you have heard/read it so often:
IN A CRISIS, ALSO SEEK HELP (PROFESSIONAL HELP) IN PERSON PLEASE.
I will be holding you in my thoughts tonight. I hope to hear from you soon.- Rzip
Posted by laural on October 23, 2000, at 5:49:49
In reply to Re: Cass, are you thinking about ... » Cass, posted by Rzip on October 23, 2000, at 0:44:43
Cass--my computer went off line a while ago but i tried to get it back going when i saw Rzips post. I don't know your history yet and i would feel so much more effective in person but just know that someone is thinking about you at 5:35 am. you havn't responded to zips post yet, please do. i know you may not have made up your mind to even directly think about suicide or you may be more advanced than that, we do tend to lay low the closer we get don't we? But something tells me that youre fighting hard, your "outbreak" as you called it earlier about hell was a very positive indication to me that you can survive if you will it. The very fact that you are in pain about these thoughts of self destruction tell me that there is much that is sane about you. If you didn't mind at all, I mean, not in the LEAST, there would be a problem. If it gets to this point, try really hard to feel your pilot light--because that's your soul calling to you from far away. That little bit of self-doubt about whethor you should actually do it is NOT self-doubt, it is doubting the disease--doubting the thing that's telling your brain to kill your body. IT WILL PASS, do not buy into it. You are such a beautiful creature, you deserve to one day die in peace after a long satisfying life and you WILL have that, just hold on a little longer. No one should have to die scared and in pain to the point of madness.
When i was suicidal a lot i would fantisize how everybody would feel bad for not understanding my pain after i was dead--let me tell you, you will hurt the ones closest to you irrevocably and it will make no real difference to mere aquaintences. But it will make a difference to me. I will feel guilty for the rest of my life because i failed to talk you out of it. : ) I mean it.
Please answer soon, I will pray or send energy or will you to live, laural
Posted by noa on October 23, 2000, at 8:15:20
In reply to Re: Cass, are you thinking about ..., posted by laural on October 23, 2000, at 5:49:49
I hope the trend continues toward improvement, but to be safe, please get help--call your pdoc, arrange to spend time with someone you trust. Don't be alone, etc.
Posted by Cass on October 23, 2000, at 14:13:53
In reply to Re: Cass, are you thinking about ... » Cass, posted by Rzip on October 23, 2000, at 0:44:43
> I was wondering if you want to share with us what prompted the death thoughts. From your previous thread on "reasons to live" you must feel so bad to be thinking about death. I know I would be extremely miserable if I started to think about suicide again. Usually, in my depressive state, I sometimes start to formulate a plan. How about you?
I have no idea what started these death thoughts. Like I said before, the problems I'm having are no different than the ones I've had for a long time. It was as if a horrible, heavy weight suddenly descended upon me. It has been like a terrible flu but on a psychological level. I suppose this is physiological in nature. Today, I continue to feel better though. As for a plan, sure, I have a plan which I'd rather not share, but as I start to recover, the likelihood of enacting it seems more remote. I think the worst has passed. I can only hope that this never happens to me again. Depression is truly a potentially fatal illness. It is hell. I did tell my therapist about this, and it's funny because he just seems to think I'm doing so well even though I told him otherwise. I'm not knocking him though. I like him.
> At the same time, I was wondering if I can >have your permission to ask the others on this board to respond. I understand that you hesitate to make a "big deal" out of this. But, this is a support group and I think its mission should be honored. What do you think? May I contact some of the other regulars on this board? Actually, I was thinking a professional respondent would be betterI suppose you mean email them, but most likely they will see the thread anyway. If you think some particualar people will have some insight for me, please go ahead and contact them if you want. As for a professional respondent, I think we are made up of lay people, so I'm not sure that is possible. (Dr. Bob's role here has always been moderator not therapist.) In any case, I appreciate any positive feedback. The only kind of feedback I don't like is from people who are preachy or demeaning, and that probably will not be a problem. Thanks for caring.
Posted by Mark H. on October 23, 2000, at 14:26:46
In reply to Cass, are you thinking about ..., posted by Rzip on October 22, 2000, at 23:35:09
Hi Cass,
Hang in there, dear friend. I'm praying for you today.
Love,
Mark H.
Posted by noa on October 23, 2000, at 14:45:17
In reply to Re: Cass, are you thinking about ..., posted by Cass on October 23, 2000, at 14:13:53
> as I start to recover, the likelihood of enacting it seems more remote. I think the worst has passed. I can only hope that this never happens to me again.
I share this feeling.However, while hoping it never happens again, it is a good idea to have a safety plan for if it does.
The process of recovery is not a straight line, and dark, depressed moods can come and go. Be prepared for that by talking frankly with your therapist about how to access safety and support if an episode should recur. Hopefully it won't but being prepared is really important.
Like fire drills--hopefully you never have to use it for a real fire, but you still gotta be prepared.
And it is important to remember that if a dark, depressed mood comes again, it won't stay forever. And it doesn't necessarily mean one's recovery is lost. Like I said, it isn't always a straight line.
Posted by Cass on October 23, 2000, at 18:06:06
In reply to Re: Cass, are you thinking about ... » Cass, posted by noa on October 23, 2000, at 14:45:17
Noa, yes, the straight line has already become crooked today. Any little thing that goes wrong propells me backwards into hell again. It seems that whenever I get depressed, crucial things break: I have car problems or computer problems... This time it has been plumbing problems, expensive ones. You know, like when the plumber says, "I've never seen anything like this before!!!" So today I had another plumbing problem which made a big mess, but I managed to fix it myself. My dread of depression is also always accompanied by the dread of important things breaking and big expenses. Why is it that things break when I am depressed? Does this strange phenomenon happen to anyone else? It's not like I pound on things or anything like that.
As for safety plans, I'm a little bit cynical about those. I guess I just don't think there is that much help to be had out there. The hospitalization experiences I've had were ineffective and frustrating. I got VERY little therapy, and I just felt like I was being held against my will till the three days had passed. I felt oppressed, and I felt that my well-being was not any sort of priority.
I also feel that I will lose any friend who I burden with this. I used to confide in a friend a lot when depressed. Now, if I mention anything that sounds vulnerable, she just gets really ticked off. I guess she feels I should be over it. I think, in general, I am only acceptable to those around me if I am feeling good. I even see this to some degree in my therapist. This is the fist time my boyfriend has seen me depressed like this, and I think it really confused him. It took me a long to convince him that I was not mad at him. I become so withdrawn when I am depressed.
I don't like life that much. I wish I did.
Posted by Cass on October 23, 2000, at 18:07:13
In reply to Re: Cass, Thinking of You Today, posted by Mark H. on October 23, 2000, at 14:26:46
Thank-you so much, Mark. That's means a lot to me coming from you.
Posted by noa on October 24, 2000, at 7:09:21
In reply to Re: Cass, are you thinking about ... » noa, posted by Cass on October 23, 2000, at 18:06:06
I also have a dread of depressed moods, because it makes me scared of descending back into the HOLE. But I have been learning to not draw that conclusion each time I have a bad day.
Also, I have come to be more aware of how when stupid things go wrong, like stuff breaking, etc., I use it as "evidence" of how bad I am and that my life is hopeless. So I trying to not buy into that by thinking about it directly and questioning its certainty.
I think you need to speak to your therapist about the perception you have that he/she needs you to be doing well and won't accept you otherwise. It could be an assumption on your part based on your experience with all the important people in your life up til this point, or if it is the case that your therapist can't handle your down times, perhaps you need a therapist who can. In any event, I think it is important to check it out with him or her.
Now, it could be that the therapist feels you need more backup support if he or she is going to work with you on an outpatient basis. Perhaps he/she knows of other resources.
As for the hospital, perhaps it won't be the most therapeutic experience, but it could be just a place to keep you safe if needed, for a few days, if you find yourself at the point of being in danger of acting on your suicidal feelings.
But I wasn't only thinking of hospitalization--I was thinking about support groups, hotlines, day treatment, people you can stay with if needed, group therapy, more frequent individual sessions, etc. etc.
Last year, my therapist basically read me the riot act about this and was honest with me that he felt that unless I could agree to be open with him about my suicidal feelings (and at the beginning of sessions, not later on), and agree to a set of strategies for staying safe, he felt that the outpatient format was not appropriate, and that I would need more structure. That was so good that he did that. At that point, even though I still felt awful, agreeing to this was a way to suspend my own judgment and rely on his for a while.
This is the end of the thread.
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