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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 55. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on April 21, 2009, at 19:07:21
And I know it came from today's session, though I can't for the life of me figure out why.
I told him what I'd said in the thread above. That I likely would seek out another therapist if he terminated with me. Not for forever, but to help me move on. I reminded him that he'd either given me or promised to give me a few names of people he thought I might get along with.
But I wanted to make sure that he knew that didn't get him off the hook for hurting me if that should happen. So we got to talking about all the mental health professionals I disliked. Biofeedback guy, EMDR lady (didn't dislike her particularly, nor like her), Dr. Fluffybunny, T2, T3, hypnotherapist lady, and of course the pdoc from h*ll, Dr. Just the Facts Ma'am (who in retrospect looks wonderful), and Dr. Lurch.
We talked a bit about why I didn't like each, and my poor track record in liking anyone, and he was amused by my names for them. But then he asked why it was that I liked him. And we talked about the bad old days in therapy, and how he wasn't there for me when I needed him, and how I felt like he really hadn't liked me, and that he had felt contempt for how I dressed, and that he found me confusing.
He asked if I still felt that he didn't like me. And of course I don't. I don't even feel like he ever remembers disliking me. He said he remembered it differently. That he had trouble establishing a connection with me, and that I quit often and that he tried to keep me from quitting until he realized that I would call back after a week or so. That he needed to make sure to keep the door open, or something like that.
He didn't really remember all the ways he'd let me down, but he didn't deny it. He said he didn't have as much experience then. He admitted that he probably had tried to get me to change how I dressed or to wear makeup, but softened it from how I put it. And when I said that I frequently heard him think "What the h*ll am I supposed to do with *that*!" he laughed, and said he did frequently feel frustrated and at a loss. But that he didn't now.
So why do I feel so darn sad?
All of that was in the past. Now I could swear he thinks my appearance is eccentric perhaps but endearing. He doesn't dislike me, but in fact likes me. He understands me.
I do think he thinks of me as "other". Not as an equal. As an odd little creature. But I think I'm ok with that. I think I prefer it. It helps in having him think of me as his therapee daughter, and it helps in having him think of my attachment to him as nonthreatening. And... Well.... I am an odd little creature.
So why am I so darn sad? I should be feeling cared for and accepted. And I do. So why do I feel so sad too?
Posted by TherapyGirl on April 21, 2009, at 20:20:23
In reply to Feeling melancholy, posted by Dinah on April 21, 2009, at 19:07:21
I don't know, but I know this has happened to me, too. Maybe because we're not used to it or don't think we deserve to be cared for and accepted?
I really don't know. But I love the way you write about your relationship to him.
Posted by MollieQ on April 21, 2009, at 20:43:01
In reply to Feeling melancholy, posted by Dinah on April 21, 2009, at 19:07:21
Your attachment sounds so secure and mutually rewarding, and clearly you are cared for. So I'm not sure why you feel sad after this session. But I am struck by your comment about being the odd little therapee daughter, as you put it, given the feelings you expressed in the family photos thread. I wonder if this has something to do with your melancholy? It is so hard to accept that despite the richness of the relationship, there are some dimensions it cannot help but lack.
Posted by sunnydays on April 21, 2009, at 22:24:50
In reply to Feeling melancholy, posted by Dinah on April 21, 2009, at 19:07:21
I want to respond thoughtfully, but I'm experiencing quite a lot of dissociation today and feel like I'm floating out of my head... I'll try to come back to this a little later, but if I don't get back, I'm thinking of you and wishing I could offer you comfort. I know how hard it can be.
sunnydays
Posted by Deneb on April 22, 2009, at 0:05:50
In reply to Feeling melancholy, posted by Dinah on April 21, 2009, at 19:07:21
I don't know what is going on, but sorry you are sad.
(((((((((((Dinah)))))))))))
Posted by Phillipa on April 22, 2009, at 0:28:43
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy » Dinah, posted by Deneb on April 22, 2009, at 0:05:50
I think there's an epidemic of sadness going around. Truly I do. Sorry no one seems to be in a good place right now. Phillipa
Posted by workinprogress on April 22, 2009, at 1:19:27
In reply to Feeling melancholy, posted by Dinah on April 21, 2009, at 19:07:21
Hmmm.. That is a puzzle Dinah. I don't have any brilliant opinions really. Maybe just the blues. Maybe thinking about the possibility of not having him? (getting referrals) Maybe remembering your struggle with him in the beginning and mourning that piece of you? Maybe something under one of those rocks?
Regardless, glad to hear you're paying attention to the feeling. And, I send good vibes your way and hope you find some insight.
(((((((Dinah))))))
Posted by Annierose on April 22, 2009, at 6:23:03
In reply to Feeling melancholy, posted by Dinah on April 21, 2009, at 19:07:21
Sometimes, for me, I find my melancholy feelings are hormonal. I'll have a nice day at work, feel productive, nice session, etc. etc. and in the evening that blue feeling enters my body. And the following day - the ohhhh that's why.
Plus your work load has been busier than usual. The added stress could trigger the blues.
Posted by Dinah on April 22, 2009, at 8:00:08
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy, posted by Annierose on April 22, 2009, at 6:23:03
I just don't know. I'm pretty sure it was something in the session. I've been wanting to call him and cry, but I don't know that it would do any good until I figure out why I want to cry.
Maybe it was remembering when he didn't like me. Maybe it was the fact that he acknowledged that he'd let me down in my postpartum days, in some pretty unprofessional and unforgivable ways, but he didn't express real regret or sorrow over my pain. He has this way of cheerfully admitting he screwed up that makes me feel like he's a wee bit too comfortable with it. In fact, maybe it was his laughing tone of remembrance of the whole thing that is making me feel bad. Yes, it's nice that he fondly recalls our first days together from the security of our present relationship. But it hurt a lot. It still hurts a lot. And he doesn't acknowledge the hurting part of it.
Does that mean I have figured it out?
Posted by Annierose on April 22, 2009, at 8:44:47
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy, posted by Dinah on April 22, 2009, at 8:00:08
Yes, I think you have figured out what triggered the melancholy after your session. Too bad even though you can trace the feelings back to the source, the feelings remain, or at least they do for me.
That's the part of therapy that frustrates me. I'll tell my t, "I agree completely with what you are saying, I understand intellectually my thought process, but darn those feelings won't budge." Although with LOTS of time, I do see some movement. It reminds me of the slow erosion process of a mountain.
Posted by workinprogress on April 22, 2009, at 9:54:52
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy, posted by Dinah on April 22, 2009, at 8:00:08
Sure sounds like you found a strong contender Dinah! And I so get it! That would make me sad, not just the remembering, but it sounds like what you sensed was his feeling about that time didn't match your feelings, or what you would expect/want him to feel... so that opened up the scar even more. Maybe?
Posted by Daisym on April 22, 2009, at 11:27:17
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy, posted by Dinah on April 22, 2009, at 8:00:08
Dinah,
Sometimes these old wounds come to the surface and we feel all the old feelings again. I think it would be worth asking yourself "why now?" Why are you remembering his mistakes now?
What ran through my mind when I read your "aha" is that some part of you might be scared about how comfortable and close things seem to be. Things are calm and steady and perhaps an old sense of waiting for the other shoe to drop is worming its way in -- you know, things are going too well so it can't last, etc.
I also have to wonder if this is an anniversary reaction of some kind - when was your son born? Or Katrina? Or?
What I would say is that there is danger here in expecting your therapist to remember his mistakes the same way you do. He has moved past it, "all is forgiven" and while he may privately regret it, he may also see it as one small part of the whole, which has grown into something really good. This is my own struggle - wanting those that hurt me to still feel as bad as I do over the hurt. No matter how much regret they express, it is still my hurt. I really do understand wanting a person to continue to be sorry and to feel bad about their hurt or their failures. But not letting go of it, or by reactivating it serves a purpose for you - and usually the purpose it to create something to focus on instead of what is current and fresh.
And - it is painful to really come face-to-face with the fact that our "parents" (in all forms) are human. Ouch.
Just my two cents. I hope you find some sunshine today.
Posted by seldomseen on April 22, 2009, at 16:29:50
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy, posted by Dinah on April 22, 2009, at 8:00:08
It sounds as though you've figured it out.
That whole session, as you describe it, though seems laden with things that might trigger melancholy. You talking about him terminating you, the fact you thought he didn't like you, the dress/make-up thing. It doesn't sound as though you two were just reminiscing. However, not having your pain recognized would hurt perhaps the most.
When things are good for me in therapy/life/work, I tend to go looking for things that are bad. Like I have to be prepared for what's *obviously* coming. Bad things are bad (obviously), but bad things out of the blue are worse.
I wish I didn't go looking. I wish I could just be happy with the way things are and try to take some comfort from that fact.
If you're doing what I always do, I wonder what bad thing it is you think you'll find?
Seldom.
Posted by MollieQ on April 22, 2009, at 17:34:48
In reply to Feeling melancholy, posted by Dinah on April 21, 2009, at 19:07:21
I agree with other posters. Reminiscing about misattunements certainly could lead to a feeling of melancholy. Even if those misattunements seem like they've been fully processed. There is still remembered pain.
Posted by Dinah on April 22, 2009, at 18:37:20
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy » Dinah, posted by Annierose on April 22, 2009, at 8:44:47
> Yes, I think you have figured out what triggered the melancholy after your session. Too bad even though you can trace the feelings back to the source, the feelings remain, or at least they do for me.
>
> That's the part of therapy that frustrates me. I'll tell my t, "I agree completely with what you are saying, I understand intellectually my thought process, but darn those feelings won't budge." Although with LOTS of time, I do see some movement. It reminds me of the slow erosion process of a mountain.Or a river on a rock. :)
I don't know if it was always so, but I do find it helpful now to understand my feelings. It helps to localize them and keep them from feeling so universal. But I'm not sure if I've totally nailed down all of this one yet.
I was going to say that therapy is hard, but in this particular case I think it's more accurate to say that human relationships are hard. It's much easier with my dogs.
Posted by Dinah on April 22, 2009, at 18:37:45
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy » Dinah, posted by Annierose on April 22, 2009, at 8:44:47
Posted by Dinah on April 22, 2009, at 18:39:07
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy » Dinah, posted by workinprogress on April 22, 2009, at 9:54:52
Yes, there was definitely a mismatch of emotional content there. And a strong suspicion on my part that he wasn't telling me all he was thinking. Which is fine of course. But the heaviness of what isn't being said can sometimes make me uneasy.
Posted by Dinah on April 22, 2009, at 18:45:28
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy, posted by Daisym on April 22, 2009, at 11:27:17
I don't *think* I'm worried it will end. But then I have been talking about termination a lot the last couple of sessions. At first my therapist played the what if game with me. But at some point he said something like "Wait a minute. None of this is happening or is in danger of happening. This is a discussion built on nothing." So maybe...
It is an anniversary of therapy earlier this month. The fourth. I suppose there may be that looking back aspect still hanging around. But I wasn't thinking about his behavior in those days until he specifically asked me what it was about him that I liked, as opposed to all those other therapists. Which led me to think about it and wonder myself. :)
As you know, I'm very realistic about my therapists strengths and weaknesses. But lately I've begun to have the uneasy feeling that I'm still idealizing him. Although I haven't for the life of me figured out how.
Posted by Dinah on April 22, 2009, at 18:49:36
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy » Dinah, posted by seldomseen on April 22, 2009, at 16:29:50
> the fact you thought he didn't like you, the dress/make-up thing. It doesn't sound as though you two were just reminiscing.
I think this might be the key to what else is bothering me. That both the talk of other therapists and the talk of how he felt about me at the beginning tells me that I make a very poor impression on others. None of the other therapists/pdocs liked me any more than I liked them. Even my own therapist, who is one of the most tolerant people I know, didn't much care for me for years. So I'm an unlikeable person who eventually grows on people? That if you really really get to know me, you might grow to find me appealing. But that if you don't, you most definitely won't.
That's kind of a melancholy self observation.
Yet sadly accurate I fear.
Posted by Dinah on April 22, 2009, at 18:55:05
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy » Dinah, posted by MollieQ on April 22, 2009, at 17:34:48
Remembered pain may well be part of it too. It was very painful to feel like my therapist didn't much like or respect me. I hated my attachment to someone who not only wasn't attached, but was mildly averse to my company. No matter how much he was trying to like me. Not that he precisely admitted that of course.
But my other observations were accurate. He practically shooed away a thought balloon when I said I used to be able to hear him think "What the h*ll am I supposed to do with *that*." Another thing that one doesn't really want to have their therapist think about them.
Yes, he understands me now, after years of knowing me. But again, I'm weird enough to confuse a therapist until he gets to know me.
:(
He mentioned that it was hard for him to establish a connection with me. Of course on my side it wasn't hard at all for him. I was just too ashamed of it, given the circumstances.
Posted by FindingMyDesire on April 22, 2009, at 23:15:57
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy » seldomseen, posted by Dinah on April 22, 2009, at 18:49:36
> So I'm an unlikeable person who eventually grows on people? That if you really really get to know me, you might grow to find me appealing. But that if you don't, you most definitely won't.
>
> That's kind of a melancholy self observation.
>
> Yet sadly accurate I fear.Oh Dinah,
I *really* want to respond to this. I'm so very compelled I have to ask myself what just got triggered for me...I say almost the same thing but in reverse. If someone "truly" got to know me they wouldn't like me and *then* I would get rejected for sure...
I guess what I can say is that you are one of the most thoughtful, helpful people on this board.
Then I think of what my T is always telling me about valuing me just for being me and not for what I "do" for others or what "actions" I take.
So, then I will reword my statement.
Dinah,
Based on what I know of your heart and mind from reading what you post on this board, you are totally wonderful and lovable person. Really.Beyond my comments, I can say I hear your melancholiness. (Did I just make that word up?) And it always feels hard to pull myself out of that feeling. I hope that our posts help. So many people here care about you. And you do have such a wonderful relationship with your T.
And then I feel saying that doesn't help...
I just think sometimes sadness or states of melancholy-ish feelings are some of the hardest to shake. It doesn't feel like you can do anything about them until they pass, huh?
Anyway, lots of care and support your way.
FMD
Posted by 10derHeart on April 23, 2009, at 1:46:10
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy » seldomseen, posted by Dinah on April 22, 2009, at 18:49:36
Will it help if I tell you that when I first found Babble, before I was even brave enough to post, that I already liked you? That your "first impression" on me was a major force is making me want to stay here? That once I did join in here, I liked you even more? That once I'd been here for several years, I only liked you more and more?
Bah humbug on therapists (yours included!) who take/took so long to like you. They were obviously missing something we all see here....and it doesn't take any time at all to see it and it's all good....
Posted by TherapyGirl on April 23, 2009, at 6:08:37
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy » Dinah, posted by 10derHeart on April 23, 2009, at 1:46:10
I totally agree with 10der. I was here about a year before I was brave enough to post. And I've liked you even more after I got to actually interact with you.
Posted by antigua3 on April 23, 2009, at 7:26:52
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy, posted by TherapyGirl on April 23, 2009, at 6:08:37
I agree with 10derHeart. I lurked for a long while before posting and it was your posts, among a few others, that gave me the courage to join. Your responses are always very thoughtful, and I, too, liked you right away.
I'm sorry you're feeling this way. I'm no help for anyone else right now, but I did want to send an encouraging message your way.
antigua
Posted by Dinah on April 23, 2009, at 7:42:16
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy, posted by antigua3 on April 23, 2009, at 7:26:52
Now I'm smiling, and a bit misty.
I sometimes wish I was Dinah. :) I think in person I'm anxious and stiff and tend to say all the wrong things. People tend to think I'm a snob. And of course, there's the unfortunate physical appearance. Part of which I can't help. Part of it I could help if I tried. I never try. For some reason it's even worse with mental health professionals. My therapist says they get the feeling they need to fix me, when really they don't.
I should be happy that he appreciates me now. I am in fact. And of course I'm very happy Babble is in my life. I've even found an IRL social group of very accepting people who look past the surface stuff. I even have a husband who sees the occasionally handsome girl I was overlaid on what I am now.
With any luck I'll never have to find another therapist.
Ok, I'll officially give myself a little slap right now, and end my feeling sorry for myself. I'm really the most fortunate of souls.
Thank you you guys, for reminding me of that.
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