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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by LadyBug on October 29, 2008, at 23:29:57
Many of you know some of my story. I don't want to post it but will *try* to give you a short version. I've been seeing my T for over 11 years. In March my young daughter placed my first grandchild for adoption. :0( It was and is the most heart wrenching thing I've ever been through in my life. The baby deserves a mother and a father and we did it for that reason and others. I separated from my spouse of 23 years at the same time I found out my daughter was pregnant. My parents were both failing during this time as well. I had my plate more than full!!!
Following the adoption, at one of the appointments I had with my T, she said "I think I gave you too much sympathy when you find out **** was pregnant until the time she had the baby". This ripped through my tender heart like nothing anyone could have said to me at the time. I couldn't believe my ears. She's always been so good to me. I told her my voice was paralyzed and I left her office devastated.I scheduled 2 more appointments with her a few weeks after that. I was hoping to gain something to help heal my heart of what she had said to me. She changed a boundary on me at the same time telling me I could no longer leave her voice mail. After 11 years it was ok??? It "muddled" our work she said.
The last time I was in her office was in May of this year. I told her I didn't know if I would ever come back but I was taking a break and didn't know if I'd return.
I sent her a letter in July, and didn't think I'd hear back from her. I did, she told me of her upcoming retirement in December.I've pondered for 5 months on what to do. I don't want to see another T. She cured me of that desire for life!!! I know the time is approaching of her retirement, in about 5 weeks or so. I've written journal page after journal page trying to sort out the pain by myself. I composed another letter the other day, meaning to send it and losing the courage to do it. It hit me the other night as I was pondering again that I need to go say goodbye face to face. I got up the courage yesterday to call and leave her a message to see if I could schedule an appointment. SCARY!!! She didn't call me until early afternoon today, saying she got my message this morning. I was worried I wouldn't hear from her, that would be my answer. I told her in my voice mail I was contemplating scheduling an appointment. She said I could have "my hour" back and could come next week if I wanted too.
She said it would be great to see me and she looked forward to hearing from me. I didn't return her call just yet. I have to be sure I made the right choice. Our "therapeutic" work is done. I have no desire to tell her anything happening in my world at the current time. I'm still trying to survive the loses I've had to endure this year. It's been painful, but I did it without her help. Her goal I guess was to turn on my at the lowest time in my entire life???I will think about what I need to do for me. No one else. She meant everything to me until she said that to me in April. The hurt, anger, hatred has been over the top. I've had weeks to work through it alone. I have let go of much of the pain she caused me, but I haven't quite let go of what she did. I'm sure I'd never get an apology from her. She never admitted to any wrong doing. Sometimes I wish she could lose one of her grandchildren so she can see how it feels. Only adoption is more painful than death. It was a decision my daughter made. We see the baby, but it hurts to know he's not ours. I wish my T could lose her spouse so she could relate to my pain. But that would never happen in her perfect world.
Sorry this is long. I've contemplated posting as I've been pretty low key around her for the past several months. Babble was here for me when I needed my babble friends more than ever. I got a lot of support here and I appreciate it more than anyone knows.
I'm really not asking if I should go see her or not. I've pretty much made that decision. I think I know what I want to say and what I won't say. I won't tell her anything about my kids, my grandchild who was adopted, my parents, my spouse etc. I guess it helps to write about it and know that some of you might understand as many of the people in my real life don't have a clue. It hurts me to think I won't have her available to me much longer and that after 11 years it ended with our relationship severed as it was. I imagined ending therapy in a positive way would be a wonderful experience. I would have peace. Instead I have confusion and know I must work through what happened alone. I won't go see a new T ever again. The APRN I see for my meds has told me I should be seeing someone right now but I won't do it. Therapy is hard at best.
If you're still with me, thank you for reading my novel..............
Thank you Babble Friends for understanding and listening, (reading)!!!I don't know how much longer I want to stay here. I know I'm not too active and don't offer much support. Doesn't mean I don't care, I do. I care a lot to what people struggle with. I offer my support even though I don't post much.
Thank you for everything! This is the best group I've found for therapy support.
LadyBug
Posted by Phillipa on October 30, 2008, at 0:22:27
In reply to My latest decision about T~Long~, posted by LadyBug on October 29, 2008, at 23:29:57
Lady Bug you're a very strong woman and although we really don't know each other. I am amazed at the way you have gotten through all this on your own. If you see her do you feel it will help or hinder your progress? Love Phillipa
Posted by raisinb on October 30, 2008, at 8:31:01
In reply to My latest decision about T~Long~, posted by LadyBug on October 29, 2008, at 23:29:57
Ladybug, I wish you the best in your appointment. What you've been through is so hard, and I hope it gives you some peace. If that's what you need to do, that is exactly what your course of action should be.
I read your post through a couple of times, and to be honest, I still feel like your therapist's actions are a jigsaw puzzle with many missing pieces. My therapist has said things to me before that were very, very hurtful, and resulted in self-destructive acts on my part. I was so angry about these that I acted out, berated her, withdrew when with her, and then she became defensive, and it took a good deal of time for us to get these things squared away. In the end, I had to accept that she just didn't know the effect they'd have. However much she *should* have known, she didn't. And then when she found out, she had (I am totally speculating, but this is what I sense) a lot of conflicting emotions. Guilt, frustration at me for making her feel guilty, regret, sadness, doubt as to whether she could help me or not. All at the exact time I needed unambivalent warmth and caring from her the most.
I guess I'm saying that maybe your therapist did not know what effect that comment would have on you. Then, the fallout, for both of you, made it difficult for her to provide exactly what you needed then. And that maybe after a break, things will be better.
Regardless of who's the client and who's the therapist, a relationship of 11 years is going to be very important to both parties. Sometimes, unfortunately, this leads to therapists being a little less objective--more defensive, more frustrated, more upset--than they should be.
Of course, there's her retirement to consider. I still think that apart from you, there is something going on with her. Otherwise, she would have planned more in advance for this major life change.
Let us know how the appointment goes. I hope she can be honest and caring with you, and that you walk away with more of the good you shared.
Posted by LadyBug on October 30, 2008, at 11:03:38
In reply to Re: My latest decision about T~Long~ » LadyBug, posted by Phillipa on October 30, 2008, at 0:22:27
Thank you Phillipa! I have been through a lot this year, my post didn't go into all the details of my separation, the adoption or the struggle with my parents etc.
I certainly don't think seeing her will hinder my progress. I'm determined not to let it!!
She kicked me in the teeth and I won't allow it to continue. It is my responsibility to forgive and forget. If I don't do that, I'm hurting myself. I am ok without her help. I do need closure since she is retiring in a few weeks. Our work is "done". Without proper termination, that I regret.LadyBug
Posted by LadyBug on October 30, 2008, at 11:10:37
In reply to Re: My latest decision about T~Long~ » LadyBug, posted by raisinb on October 30, 2008, at 8:31:01
Thank you raisinb!
I think much of what you posted about you and your T is a lot of what happened with my situation as well. I hope she's had some time to think about it and try to overcome her frustrations with me and how to best help me. She wanted me to stand on my own, oh that happened alright, she saw to it. but the timing of it was poorly planned.
Our work is "done", maybe unfinished, but done!!!I will let you know how it goes if I do call her back. I think I'll let her wonder until Monday and it will give me a few more days to process my plan and why I feel I want to see her to say goodbye. It might even take more than one session to say goodbye, after all 11 years is a long time to work with the same T!
LadyBug
Posted by sassyfrancesca on October 30, 2008, at 12:22:18
In reply to My latest decision about T~Long~, posted by LadyBug on October 29, 2008, at 23:29:57
> (((Ladybug))):
Many of you know some of my story. I don't want to post it but will *try* to give you a short version. I've been seeing my T for over 11 years. In March my young daughter placed my first grandchild for adoption. :0( It was and is the most heart wrenching thing I've ever been through in my life.
I cannot imagine that kind of pain.
The baby deserves a mother and a father and we did it for that reason and others. I separated from my spouse of 23 years at the same time I found out my daughter was pregnant. My parents were both failing during this time as well. I had my plate more than full!!!
i remember.
>
> Following the adoption, at one of the appointments I had with my T, she said "I think I gave you too much sympathy when you find out **** was pregnant until the time she had the baby". This ripped through my tender heart like nothing anyone could have said to me at the time. I couldn't believe my ears. She's always been so good to me. I told her my voice was paralyzed and I left her office devastated.I cannot imagine a t being so insensitive; I wonder if she was dealing with somekind of guilt or issues.
>
> I scheduled 2 more appointments with her a few weeks after that. I was hoping to gain something to help heal my heart of what she had said to me. She changed a boundary on me at the same time telling me I could no longer leave her voice mail. After 11 years it was ok??? It "muddled" our work she said.That was so cruel.
>
> The last time I was in her office was in May of this year. I told her I didn't know if I would ever come back but I was taking a break and didn't know if I'd return.
>
> I sent her a letter in July, and didn't think I'd hear back from her. I did, she told me of her upcoming retirement in December.
>
> I've pondered for 5 months on what to do. I don't want to see another T.I understand that; how can you trust?
She cured me of that desire for life!!! I know the time is approaching of her retirement, in about 5 weeks or so. I've written journal page after journal page trying to sort out the pain by myself. I composed another letter the other day, meaning to send it and losing the courage to do it. It hit me the other night as I was pondering again that I need to go say goodbye face to face. I got up the courage yesterday to call and leave her a message to see if I could schedule an appointment. SCARY!!! She didn't call me until early afternoon today, saying she got my message this morning. I was worried I wouldn't hear from her, that would be my answer. I told her in my voice mail I was contemplating scheduling an appointment. She said I could have "my hour" back and could come next week if I wanted too.
> She said it would be great to see me and she looked forward to hearing from me. I didn't return her call just yet. I have to be sure I made the right choice. Our "therapeutic" work is done. I have no desire to tell her anything happening in my world at the current time. I'm still trying to survive the loses I've had to endure this year. It's been painful, but I did it without her help. Her goal I guess was to turn on my at the lowest time in my entire life???Unconsciounable!
>
> I will think about what I need to do for me. No one else. She meant everything to me until she said that to me in April. The hurt, anger, hatred has been over the top.I've been there.
I've had weeks to work through it alone. I have let go of much of the pain she caused me, but I haven't quite let go of what she did. I'm sure I'd never get an apology from her. She never admitted to any wrong doing. Sometimes I wish she could lose one of her grandchildren so she can see how it feels. Only adoption is more painful than death. It was a decision my daughter made. We see the baby, but it hurts to know he's not ours. I wish my T could lose her spouse so she could relate to my pain. But that would never happen in her perfect world.
I understand that.
>
> Sorry this is long. I've contemplated posting as I've been pretty low key around her for the past several months. Babble was here for me when I needed my babble friends more than ever. I got a lot of support here and I appreciate it more than anyone knows.
>
> I'm really not asking if I should go see her or not. I've pretty much made that decision. I think I know what I want to say and what I won't say. I won't tell her anything about my kids, my grandchild who was adopted, my parents, my spouse etc. I guess it helps to write about it and know that some of you might understand as many of the people in my real life don't have a clue. It hurts me to think I won't have her available to me much longer and that after 11 years it ended with our relationship severed as it was. I imagined ending therapy in a positive way would be a wonderful experience. I would have peace. Instead I have confusion and know I must work through what happened alone. I won't go see a new T ever again. The APRN I see for my meds has told me I should be seeing someone right now but I won't do it. Therapy is hard at best.Perhaps you would like to consider: "Restorative Justice"---This is what you did, this is how it made me feel. It doesn't matter what your t thinks, says or does....it ONLY matters how what she did affected you.
>
>
> If you're still with me, thank you for reading my novel..............
> Thank you Babble Friends for understanding and listening, (reading)!!!
>
> I don't know how much longer I want to stay here.Please don't go.
I know I'm not too active and don't offer much support. Doesn't mean I don't care, I do. I care a lot to what people struggle with. I offer my support even though I don't post much.
>
> Thank you for everything! This is the best group I've found for therapy support.Hugs and Love sweet Ladybug,
Alice
>
> LadyBug
>
Posted by LadyBug on October 30, 2008, at 12:42:10
In reply to Re: My latest decision about T~Long~ » LadyBug, posted by sassyfrancesca on October 30, 2008, at 12:22:18
Thanks Sassy!!! You have such a good heart!!!
I shake my head with all that has happened.
May good times come to both of us soon in the therapy department. No more of this boundary changing stuff!!!! It's not allowed!
Posted by sassyfrancesca on October 30, 2008, at 13:32:02
In reply to Re: My latest decision about T~Long~ » sassyfrancesca, posted by LadyBug on October 30, 2008, at 12:42:10
Ha, Ha, (((Ladybug)): I agree; let's just tie all the bad t's up, and drop em in the river....no more boundary issues, LOL, LOL
Love, Sassy
(Who plans to tell off her t next week); as we were walking out (right out of the blue) he sez:
You are going to/or you want to KISS me. I rolled my eyes and said: "YOU WISH!"
WHAT boundaries
Posted by rskontos on October 31, 2008, at 18:13:41
In reply to My latest decision about T~Long~, posted by LadyBug on October 29, 2008, at 23:29:57
Ladybug,
I know you have been through so much. I remember it and often told you how much i supported you through it and I marveled at your strength. I don't how you got through but you did. You sound stronger I just wish you did not have to do it alone. Shame on that T. I don't think this is the right kind of termination though. It is a termination of a kind but very painful and totally unnecessary on her part. Why she chose this route I guess you may never know and I regret her decision to treat you in such a callous way. I agree with others that maybe she could not see what she did.
I have concluded after a very tough week that some people in our lives are just not meant to understand us. That for us, and with some relationships "the meeting of the minds" shall never take place because for some reason you and the other person just aren't on the same wavelength or are at different crossroads or just aren't communicating at the moment however important it is to be communicating at that moment. I think this is what happened. Your T basically dropped the ball, never picked it back up, and never realized she dropped it. What can you do? Can't beat it into her. You did what you could. You moved forward. Yeah Ladybugs!
You seem to be in a better place. I applaud you for that. I respect you for going back to say goodbye for you and only you.
Good luck with the session. Make sure it happens on your terms.
((((((((Ladybug))))
rsk
Posted by LadyBug on October 31, 2008, at 23:07:30
In reply to Re: My latest decision about T~Long~ » LadyBug, posted by rskontos on October 31, 2008, at 18:13:41
rks, thank you, that was wonderful! I appreciate your support during a what was a pretty tough time for me. I have my days but most of the time I try to keep my head above water. I know time does heal but time can never erase the memories and sometimes it can't erase all the pain of what we endured. I want to take some time this weekend to plan what I want to say to her. Will I get time? I'm having my doubts. Tomorrow I have to get caught up with things around the house plus run errands. On Sunday I have to drive 2 hours each way to visit my parents. I try to go see them every other weekend. It's hard but worth it.
I know I'm not willing to share anything that is going on in my life right now with my T . She has no reason to know. I'm pretty nervous to go, but I know for my own self I need to. She can kiss my butt for the most part! I'm sure she won't give me an apology, she didn't admit to hurting me like she did. Do I remind her of the pain she inflicted upon me or just drop it and get to the goodbye part? I need to think it over very seriously. I can't take anymore of the way she treated me in March and April.
Thanks for your reply and your kind words. They mean a lot.LadyBug~ kick-my-T's-butt-LadyBug
Posted by happyflower on November 1, 2008, at 16:41:59
In reply to Re: My latest decision about T~Long~ » rskontos, posted by LadyBug on October 31, 2008, at 23:07:30
Hi Ladybug,
I have not been responding because I am not sure what would make you feel better. In a way it reminds me of me and my 1st T, I want to hate him, but at the same time he did help me. Maybe you could hug her and step on her foot (accidentally, lol)
How are you feeling about the relationship after 11 years. Do the ending months negate the stuff before? I guess it depends on how you want to end it. I take it she knows she hurt you, you told her, right? So I just don't know. What kind of ending would you like if you could have it anyway you want?
Posted by LadyBug on November 1, 2008, at 18:30:37
In reply to Re: My latest decision about T~Long~ » LadyBug, posted by happyflower on November 1, 2008, at 16:41:59
happyflower~
thanks for bringing up some good points. I did tell her she hurt me just not as many times as I should have because I took a long break! She didn't acknowledge hurting me so it will be interesting if she brings it up. I plan to tell her what she said was the worst thing she could have said to me at the time. I'm sure she still won't get it, she doesn't know how it feels to lose a grandchild or a spouse.I will have to compose some thoughts on how I would like to see it end..............of course I hope it ends positively. If she hurts me some more, I'll make her miserable. I won't do therapy any longer with her. This will be about my future or letting go of the power she had over me. I let it go. And I could write a book of the negative effects I believe therapy had over me for the most part. There were some good things, but mostly I believe the process is da** hard.
I think the hardest part of therapy for me is the intense feelings of love I felt for her and each time I left her office I felt like I was being abandoned. I had severe attachment issues, she lead me into needing her and depending on her but with limits. It's unrealistic in therapy to need your T and they aren't available to you when you *want* them to be. I don't know.
LadyBug
Posted by happyflower on November 1, 2008, at 19:59:04
In reply to Re: My latest decision about T~Long~ » happyflower, posted by LadyBug on November 1, 2008, at 18:30:37
I am not sure if T's can be there enough if we have attachment issues, even if they were in our life personally. To me it is like a huge hole that only gets a thin scab to grow over it while in therapy. The truth is we need others in life to help and T's can never be one of those people. IT must frickin hurt after so many years. I have a feeling she is hurting too about the way things ended.
I just don't know how to heal myself without therapy, I wish I could quit too. I sure wish we lived closer . :( I think if I had a good friend close by to have a weekly coffee or hot chocolate date, it would help so much.
I am really worried about you, especially since the holidays are coming up.
Is there anyone that can be with you after you see your T? You shouldn't be alone. When are you seeing her, have you made an appointment yet ?
I really wish you could trust the profession more, I have worked with some wonderful T's for the most part. I think in a way one T can't help us with everything. Maybe a new T could help with the adoption thing or the ending of your marriage. Maybe short term? You don't' have to get attached like the old one, you can set the rules for yourself.
I just feel so bad that you feel so alone, it really makes me sad because you are such a caring beautiful person. I wish I could have a friend like you to have fun with.
Posted by LadyBug on November 2, 2008, at 1:05:15
In reply to Re: My latest decision about T~Long~ » LadyBug, posted by happyflower on November 1, 2008, at 19:59:04
happyflower~
your post brings me to tears...........thank you for your support. I'm a little concerned for the holidays as well. My dumb husband didn't pay on our storage unit after I moved out and so I lost all my stuff that was in it, among which was all my Christmas stuff. After 25 years I had quite the collection. I lost it all!!! It brings me to tears when I think of it. I had some amazing things, and they were nice! I hate him!!!!!!!!!I wish we lived closer, I'd love to meet once a week for coffee or something. I have friends but when we get together it's such an effort for me but I have fun when I go.
My T told me I could come in on Tuesday next week at my "old" time. Like she's saved it for me??? I liked what you said about having a scab put over the hole we have inside while we are in therapy. It's a good way to put it. I must admit, my hole was huge when I started therapy, it go much better in time, but it's still there, sometimes I feel it and it hurts.
I don't have anyone to be there for me when I get done on Tues. Both my girls will be at work. They don't know I'm going, they would blow a gasket because they hate my T!!!!!!!!!!!!! So I can't tell them I'm going to see her. I don't have much time left to think of all I want to say. I may go back and see her a few times before her last date of seeing patients. It depends on how it goes. I've gone through the grieving of losing her.But I didn't think I'd ever hate her like I do.............it's weird.
I loved her for probably 9 of the 11 years, and then when the baby was born in March this year, she did what she did, I hated her. I have a lot to sort out. My dreams indicate that as I've had nothing but awful dreams this past week about my life. Especially dreams of my husband cheating on me. I wish they would go away and I wish he would go away except he's in jail so he is away.
Last night I did actually have a dream that I met with my t and she told me I could come and hang out at her house after she retires.........ya that's a dream alright!!!Hugs
Ldbg
This is the end of the thread.
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