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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mair on February 21, 2006, at 17:12:36
For reasons a little too involved to repeat, my T asked me about the Board yesterday and we drifted into a discussion about why I so rarely come here. At first I stated the reasons that I've always told myself: too little computer access at home, too busy, etc. But as I explained all this to her, it dawned on me that there were a couple, more compelling reasons.
First, as the result of a pretty awful and lengthy relapse last year, I now see my T 3x a week. We increased the frequency of my sessions last May or June. I'm doing much better now and we've talked about dropping that 3rd session but thus far my T has tried to dissuade me whenever I've brought it up. As the result of seeing her so much, I just think I'm less isolated in my depressive thinking. So I just haven't been drawn to the Babbles in the same way that I have been at other times.
The other explanation, which is frankly much more to the point, is that I found that I was always comparing myself too much to other babblers - always unfavorably, and comparing my relationship with my T to the relationships others seem to have with their Ts, again all unfavorably. Lots of times I'd leave here feeling more upset, certainly not because of anything anyone said and not as a reaction to one of Bob's controversial moderating decisions, but always because for any one of a number of different reasons, I'd feel unworthy, or deficient, or ashamed or I'd start questionning the work my T does with me. Essentially, exposure to the Babbles started stirring up alot of the more negative thoughts I have about myself.
As anyone had a similar experience?
mair
Posted by rubenstein on February 21, 2006, at 18:54:36
In reply to Can Anyone Relate to This?, posted by mair on February 21, 2006, at 17:12:36
Mair
I often feel that way too. I feel like I am not being a good client when I read about other's experiences, So sometimes I try to stay away
but sometimes, lots of times, I am so glad that there is a place to talk about all the unspoken things in therapy.
rachel
Posted by zenhussy on February 21, 2006, at 19:08:17
In reply to Can Anyone Relate to This?, posted by mair on February 21, 2006, at 17:12:36
good to see your name Mair! can totally relate to what you've written. will shoot you a quick note to elaborate a bit.
Posted by Daisym on February 21, 2006, at 21:13:27
In reply to Can Anyone Relate to This?, posted by mair on February 21, 2006, at 17:12:36
Sometimes Babble is just darn spooky...today in therapy I was talking about how jealous I feel of other people who post about how easy therapy is or how close they are to being done with their work. And I'm really, really jealous of Antigua telling her mom, but that was an off shoot of the discussion. I can't believe I popped in and here is your post about discussing Babble in therapy. Spoooooky!!
Sometimes reading here makes me miss my therapist too much. Sometimes I get infuriated at what I don't have with my own therapist. Often I feel the need to defend my attachment. And very often I notice how little progress I'm making, comparitively speaking.
But, the good out weighs the bad for me. I get courage here I could never ask for anywhere else. No one else empathizes or understands like babblers do. And it has helped a whole bunch for me to open all this up to my therapist and say, "there is a thread on the board that is upsetting, or interesting, or whatever."
This is my long winded way of saying, yes, I can relate.
Nice to see you. Glad you are doing better.
Hugs,
Daisy
Posted by Dinah on February 22, 2006, at 10:03:30
In reply to Can Anyone Relate to This?, posted by mair on February 21, 2006, at 17:12:36
I often compare my therapist unfavorably to Daisy's or Pfinstegg's. Or go into therapy with the expectation that he will respond like they have, and then I'm disappointed. He knows I wish he were more like Daisy's. :)
Sometimes I feel a bit defensive about my unusual beliefs about therapy. That it's not bad if it's forever therapy. That you don't have to get "all better" and move on. That ongoing support is worthwhile. And that somehow change and (dare I say it) growth continue to occur.
But mainly I think Babble's helped me say things and ask things and think in ways that I'd have never managed to consider or have the courage to say. My therapist expressed surprise the other day that I've only been at Babble since 2001. I told him that's because therapy didn't really start till then. I think he was a bit annoyed.
Posted by mair on February 22, 2006, at 12:21:41
In reply to Re: Can Anyone Relate to This?, posted by rubenstein on February 21, 2006, at 18:54:36
My T gets after me about thinking there are performance standards to being a therapy patient, but it's hard not to think that there is more I could or should be doing.
I think I'm a very passive therapy patient. I frequently forget what we're discussing from one session to the next; I don't think about my T all that much between session; I rarely have the thought between sessions that I'd like to talk to her about a particular experience; and I'm pretty dependent on her to get things going.
I realize that some of this passivity is what allows me to function outside of therapy but I'm sure it plays a role in how long a process therapy has been for me.
Mair
Posted by mair on February 22, 2006, at 12:23:21
In reply to Re: Can Anyone Relate to This? » mair, posted by zenhussy on February 21, 2006, at 19:08:17
So good to see you here too.
Posted by mair on February 22, 2006, at 12:52:55
In reply to Re: Can Anyone Relate to This? » mair, posted by Daisym on February 21, 2006, at 21:13:27
Has your T ever expressed an opinion about whether he thinks you're participation here is a good thing or bad thing? (on balance of course) My T said the other day that one of her concerns about my participation was just the issue I've raised - that I'd set myself up to compare myself unfavorably with others. Either I'm misunderstanding her point or she's engaged in revisionist history, because I don't ever recall her saying this and from time to time we've talked alot about the Babbles. She has expressed concern before that sometimes I would process things on Babble that I would then not feel I had to process with her, so she would be missing out on issues of importance. I think she also felt sometimes that after working through things on Babble, she would get the very sanitized expurgated version. She's probably right but I do that with or without Babble. I've never really talked to her about much that I haven't tried to explain to myself first.
But what you're saying is true too. Processing things on Babble makes it easier for me to raise them with her at all - the sanitized version is probably better than no version.
I have no trouble seeing the value of Babble, and as even my T observed, Babble is the only place, outside of therapy, where I can discuss depression with people who really understand what I'm talking about.
But the flip side about Babble is true also. I'm more than a little awestruck by the enormity to what some people here have had to deal with, and by the relationships they've forged with their therapists, and I do feel ashamed that I'm such a slow study.
mair
PS: you realize don't you, that in the world of people addressing the issues you're trying to address, you've actually been in therapy for a very short period of time?
Posted by mair on February 22, 2006, at 13:15:15
In reply to Re: Can Anyone Relate to This? » mair, posted by Dinah on February 22, 2006, at 10:03:30
You are much more comfortable with the on-going value of therapy than I am. The idea of forever therapy makes me shudder although it's hard for me to really imagine that there will be a time when I won't need it. My T always tries to reinforce the idea that I won't be in therapy forever, because she knows it bothers me, but she also says I have a real problem believing that it's ok to be taken care of. So maybe that's where some of my ambivalence comes from.
When I told her about the unfavorable comparison problem with the Babbles, I only talked about how I compare myself to other therapy patients, but I've had the experience you've had, of wishing my T was more like Daisy's for instance. I think this is part of what's kept me away. I've been in too bad a place to have it be healthy for me to constantly question whether my T is the right T for me. I needed to stop thinking about that.
mair
PS: Dinah - I hope I'm not speaking out of turn here, but my observation is that over the years you've done so much work with your T on developing your relationship. I've always gotten the impression that he's had to work at it as much as you have, so I hope you both can value how far you both have come and I hope you can feel proud of the extent to which you've persevered.
Posted by gardenergirl on February 22, 2006, at 15:15:33
In reply to Re: Can Anyone Relate to This? » Daisym, posted by mair on February 22, 2006, at 12:52:55
> She has expressed concern before that sometimes I would process things on Babble that I would then not feel I had to process with her, so she would be missing out on issues of importance. I think she also felt sometimes that after working through things on Babble, she would get the very sanitized expurgated version.
My T has expressed that concern, too. He called it "bleeding off the transference". I do sort of understand his concern. And I do recall talking to him about something I'd spent a great deal of time and emotional energy processing here, first. It was sort of bland compared to the intensity of the feelings at the time. But you know, we can't control the timing of when stuff like that happens. And I think it's rather adaptive of us to utilize another form of support and processing, if it's helpful. And I certainly didn't want, nor was I likely able to sit on those feelings until the next week.
He said this after I emailed him one of my posts just to give him the "story", so that I could get going on the feelings and dynamics in the therapy session. I guess for him, hearing the story in the session is good, too. But to me, sometimes, it feels like wasting time, when I want to get to the meatier stuff.
gg
Posted by Dinah on February 22, 2006, at 22:56:08
In reply to Re: Can Anyone Relate to This? » Dinah, posted by mair on February 22, 2006, at 13:15:15
He really has worked, maybe not as hard as I have because naturally I care more, but harder than he's had to work with the average client I'm sure.
We've both worked hard to develop a relationship that really was against all odds.
It may be on its knees now, but who knows. It could bounce back.
I'm pretty proud of it. I think he is too.
Posted by Daisym on February 23, 2006, at 0:48:17
In reply to Re: Can Anyone Relate to This? » Daisym, posted by mair on February 22, 2006, at 12:52:55
I tend to think of Babble functioning much the way group therapy or support groups must function. You do hear about other people's struggles and their therapy, etc. It would be impossible not to compare. But don't we do that in all aspects of our lives? I wish I had my friend's mom, or another's husband and I'm glad I have my own kids and suspect other people wish they had them too. There are lots of therapists described here that seem like they are so dedicated and caring, and seem just right for that client.
Like mine. I feel strange sometimes when I hear people say things about my therapist (not that I don't think he is the best!) but I want to point out that his style would likely drive a number of people batty. His answer is almost always, "let's talk about it." More is better. And he is a complete smart a** -- which could be taken the wrong way -- OK, I'm stopping. I was going to try to "prove" that he isn't perfect, but you already know that. He is just perfect for me.
And do I know that 3 years (almost) is relatively short time of therapy for abuse issues? Yes, I've read that. But haven't I told you I'm an overachiever? I tell my therapist all the time! :)
Posted by Tamar on February 23, 2006, at 17:31:11
In reply to Can Anyone Relate to This?, posted by mair on February 21, 2006, at 17:12:36
Hi Mair,
I haven't read the whole thread, because I'm really pushed for time at the moment (sick baby etc...) but I did want to respond because I've had the same experience from time to time.
Usually for me it's been when I've been at my most depressed. Sometimes I hear other people's therapy stories and I feel very sad - either because they're talking about something lovely that I've never experienced in therapy, or because they're talking about something painful that I'd hate to experience.
One of the ways I try to deal with it is: I try to remind myself that other people's therapy is *their* therapy and might not work for me. For example, I would love to hug my therapist, as others here sometimes do, but I think in fact it would raise a lot of difficulties for me because I have huge problems with intimacy. So what works for another Babbler might not work for me.
I try to trust my therapist to do what he thinks is best for me. And I know he's prepared to negotiate: if I ever asked him for a hug I'm sure he'd discuss it with me rather that refusing outright, and that would be the right thing for me because he's the right therapist for me.
I know you've made numerous perceptive observations here and you've offered a lot of support to many people. I'm sorry that you haven't felt so supported here, and I wonder if you might feel better about things if you were able to post directly and up front about the things that bother you. If something makes you question your therapy, can you raise the question here? One thing I've learned at Babble is that people are generally willing to try to see things from your perspective and to try to offer as much support as possible.
One thing that restores my faith in human nature is the way people here can offer love and friendship to each other, even if their political and emotional and social perspectives are very divergent. If you feel a bit uncomfortable, it's always worth mentioning it, because other people can probably relate.
I hope you'll begin to feel more comfortable here because I know people here care very much about you, and I've seen that you care very much about others here...
Tamar
Posted by zenhussy on March 1, 2006, at 2:28:49
In reply to Re: Can Anyone Relate to This? » zenhussy, posted by mair on February 22, 2006, at 12:23:21
have not forgotten. have been reading printed copy of entire thread so that response can better address all points raised. (between house hunting and houseguest been busy and haven't had usual hours avail. on computer)
again, have not forgotten. sending much affection your way in meantime. = )
This is the end of the thread.
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