![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tinydancer on January 31, 2004, at 10:48:37
I wanted to get back to everyone about this topic. Because I did finally ask my T if he had ever had a sexual fantasy about me. I didn't come right out and say it, of course, in the end he just blurted it out, "If I have sexual fantasies about you?" I was mortified but yet I had to ask.
He did ask first why I wanted to know, what my reaction would be both ways, and then I got really slutty and said that I wouldn't believe him if he said no. Unbelievable...
Finally he said that he *would* answer me, and the answer was yes. That he had, but that it was not anything that he was obsessed about or that happened on a regular basis. He also made it clear that it didn't mean (obviously) that he had changed his mind about my numerous "offers" (haha). It was amazing that he dared to be so honest. I feel like I have the most amazing T in the world. To know that I can ask him anything is a good feeling. And to know that he will not get mad at me for it.
What is your reaction to that he answered yes? I am interested in hearing.
Posted by Elle2021 on January 31, 2004, at 11:40:54
In reply to Asking T if he has sexual fantasies about you pt2, posted by tinydancer on January 31, 2004, at 10:48:37
> What is your reaction to that he answered yes?
Shock! I can't believe he just openly admitted to it, but I like the way he assured you that the fantasies weren't obsessively happening. What did you say to him after he said yes?
Elle
Posted by Karen_kay on January 31, 2004, at 12:19:53
In reply to Asking T if he has sexual fantasies about you pt2, posted by tinydancer on January 31, 2004, at 10:48:37
WOOOOOOOWWWW!!!! Ummmm...wow! Utter shock! I can't believe he admitted it! Girl, you have courage to ask that. It's amazing that you had the courage to ask your therapist that question. It almost makes me wonder if we are seeing the same therapist...
It's hard to say whether he was in the right by answering that question. How did that make you feel when he answered it? I can tell by your post that you have "propositioned" him numerous times, am I correct? Is this a habit of yours? (Pardon me for being nosey, I'm sorry and feel free to teel me to kiss off, just being curious)... I'd say he had a reason for answering your question.
It's great to know that your therapist will answer your questions and be honest. I have a similar relationship with mine. And it's all about trust and trying to see that he's "human"..
How much did him answering your question raise your trust in him?
I bet you trust him a whole lot more now, right?
Posted by Racer on January 31, 2004, at 12:39:30
In reply to Asking T if he has sexual fantasies about you pt2, posted by tinydancer on January 31, 2004, at 10:48:37
Well... Huh.
I think that it's good he was honest with you, because that fosters trust in your therapeutic relationship. On the other hand, if you perceive your behavior to be "slutty" towards him, I think that's a topic for further exploration.
What do I think about him saying yes? I think that if I were in that situation -- someone asking me if I had fantasies about him/her and then telling me that he/she wouldn't believe me if I said no -- I'd say yes whether it was true or not, in order to open the topic for discussion. (Here's another thought on the subject of sexual fantasies: maybe it's just me, but I find myself imagining myself in bed with a lot of people. I find myself in bed with one person, and a varying number of cats, but that imagining includes everything from the "gee, my neighbor is such a fun guy, even though he weighs 400 pounds, and I like his wife so much, I wonder how their sex life works with his weight, what would it be like to be in bed with him?" all the way through to the kind of fantasies where I consider every possible nuance of seduction and sex with someone specific. It's not unusual to have fantasies about someone, but it's not necessarily meaningful in any real sense. Does that make sense?)
Anyway, with the limited amount of information available, I'd say it's probably for the greater good that he admitted that to you.
Posted by Dinah on January 31, 2004, at 12:43:07
In reply to Asking T if he has sexual fantasies about you pt2, posted by tinydancer on January 31, 2004, at 10:48:37
It makes me realize that if my therapist ever wanted to get rid of me without abandoning me, it would be ridiculously easy. That would do it for me. I'd be so grossed out, I'd run like a frightened deer.
Fortunately, I'm completely confident that my therapist *never* has sexual fantasies. And that he doesn't find me attractive in the least in any way. Whew!!!
Posted by Karen_kay on January 31, 2004, at 12:53:41
In reply to Re: Asking T if he has sexual fantasies about you pt2 » tinydancer, posted by Dinah on January 31, 2004, at 12:43:07
Dinah, your therapist can't really have fantasies as he doesn't have the anatomy to do anything with those fantasies, remember....
But, if he did, I'm sure he'd think of me :) (Oh, that was horrible! I almost choked laughing!)
Posted by Dinah on January 31, 2004, at 15:00:31
In reply to Re: Asking T if he has sexual fantasies about you pt2 » Dinah, posted by Karen_kay on January 31, 2004, at 12:53:41
Oh, I hadn't forgotten. That's why I'm so sure. :) Not even you, I'm afraid Karen.
I have this desire to bring up these threads with my therapist, as an example of how to get rid of me instead of abandoning me. But I'm afraid there's no way to do it without him thinking I *want* to know about his sexual fantasies, or what he thinks of me. And at least no way of doing it without piquing his interest enough to come peek at the board. Since he knows my posting name, that would be the most awful think I could imagine. (blush blush blush blush - I'm red as a turnip now)
Posted by gardenergirl on January 31, 2004, at 16:14:56
In reply to Re: Asking T if he has sexual fantasies about you pt2 » Karen_kay, posted by Dinah on January 31, 2004, at 15:00:31
Perhaps a don't ask, don't tell policy? Well, that doesn't work for the military, but it was a thought. I'm with you on this one, Dinah.
gg
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 31, 2004, at 17:11:45
In reply to Re: Asking T if he has sexual fantasies about you pt2 » Dinah, posted by gardenergirl on January 31, 2004, at 16:14:56
I'm all for the don't ask don't tell policy. However, men are men, and they think about sex a lot. And in my opinion, they think about having sex with every woman they encounter (although my husband denies this, I totally don't believe him). Am I wrong about this?? Gentlemen, if this is wrong, please let me know!
So I just assume my T has had at least one sexual thought about me. It's natural.
However, if he admitted to it, I would run from the room screaming, joining Dinah at 31 Flavors, and commence to eat several brownie sundaes, followed by Manhattans at the Applebees next door. If I KNEW for a fact that he fantasized about me, it would always make me question exactly what was going on in therpay. PArt of me would think he might be intentionally keeping me there to satisfy his needs. And if I found out he DIDN'T fantasize about me, that would be an ego bruiser, something I don't need right now.
Dinah, do you like Manhattans?
Posted by pegasus on January 31, 2004, at 18:56:31
In reply to Asking T if he has sexual fantasies about you pt2, posted by tinydancer on January 31, 2004, at 10:48:37
Oh my god! I so want to ask the same thing from my old therapist, but I'd never have the nerve. I'm sure he'd have said no, or declined to answer, which would have felt bad. I'm so glad that your T gave you a positive answer, at least. I think it sounds like it was a great conversation. I'm glad you gave us some details about exactly how it went, because otherwise it would have been hard to picture it being a good idea to have that conversation!
BTW, my husband agrees that guys fantasize about pretty much any reasonably attractive woman that crosses their path. And he assures me that every guy I've ever met has no doubt fantasized about me. I *think* he's being sweet, but sometimes it get's a little fuzzy. ;-)
-p
Posted by Racer on January 31, 2004, at 21:48:21
In reply to Re: Asking T if he has sexual fantasies about you pt2, posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 31, 2004, at 17:11:45
> I'm all for the don't ask don't tell policy. However, men are men, and they think about sex a lot. And in my opinion, they think about having sex with every woman they encounter (although my husband denies this, I totally don't believe him). Am I wrong about this?? Gentlemen, if this is wrong, please let me know!
>I'm no gentleman, but I can tell you from that this lady flashes fantasies about just about every man she sees. Sometimes it's just a quick, "hmmm... looks like fun..." and sometimes it's a fully fledged seduction and completion scene with all the bells and whistles. Some men ring the fantasy bell more than once, others are just a momentary frisson of pleasure.
(For that matter, I also look at some women and have a little bit of "gee, how would it feel to caress her body?" It's no more something I act on than the fantasies about men, but I think anyone with a heartbeat can appreciate the magnetism of, say, Lucy Lawless or Jodie Foster.)
When I don't fantasize like this, I know that I'm depressed again.
> So I just assume my T has had at least one sexual thought about me. It's natural.
>
> However, if he admitted to it, I would run from the room screaming, joining Dinah at 31 Flavors, and commence to eat several brownie sundaes, followed by Manhattans at the Applebees next door.That's hysterical. I love the visual image it conjures up, two round eyed women in the Baskin Robbins, staring at one another in horror! Thank you for a day brightener.
If I KNEW for a fact that he fantasized about me, it would always make me question exactly what was going on in therpay. PArt of me would think he might be intentionally keeping me there to satisfy his needs.
That's one reason I'd never ask the question myself. I'd always wonder after that, if I needed the treatment or if he did. Another reason for me, though, would be the "what if we did?" that would forever after be in my mind. You know, the whole, "But if we agreed that no one would ever know, and that we agreed in advance that it was wrong but we were going to do it anyway" scenario.
And if I found out he DIDN'T fantasize about me, that would be an ego bruiser, something I don't need right now.
>
Yep, that would be pretty devastating. The person we open up to and allow ourselves to be vulnerable to, telling us that he didn't have any throbbing desire for us at any time, ever? I can't think of anything more awful. Heck, even if I knew for a fact that my pdoc was gay, I'd still like to know that he'd at least thought once about what I'd look like with my clothes off!> Dinah, do you like Manhattans?
Can't answer for Dinah, but if we're going to Applebee's, I'll take a Peach Margarita...
Posted by Dinah on January 31, 2004, at 21:56:00
In reply to Re: Asking T if he has sexual fantasies about you pt2, posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 31, 2004, at 17:11:45
I'm afraid I can only tolerate the taste of alchohol if it's liberally laced with sugar. I hate to be a girly girl, but could I have a daiquiri or pina colada instead?
Heavens, I'm exposing my bad taste everywhere on the board. Should I admit that I like the salad at the Olive Garden (though admittedly that's all I like there).
I'm going to have to ask my husband about that sexual fantasy thing. I trust him to be honest. It would honestly gross me out to think of my therapist having any sexual fantasies either within the confines of his office or that originated in his office. Sort of like sullying a pure sanctuary combined with thinking of your parents and sex at the same time.
Shudder. Shudder.
And if I knew *anyone* fantasized about me, I'd be too uncomfortable to ever show my face in public again. And I think I include my husband in that.
But, maybe I have a problem in that area.
I think you guys are right though. Wouldn't that knowledge taint at least aspects of future therapy? I like therapist transparency and am not a fan of the blank slate, but could you openly talk about sex or relationships if you knew your therapist had had sexual fantasies about you? I would be secondguessing every word I said for fear that I was trying to encourage or discourage the fantasies. It would really get in the way of therapy, even leaving out my own obvious problems with the topic in general.
Posted by Racer on February 1, 2004, at 0:40:08
In reply to Re: Asking T if he has sexual fantasies about you pt2, posted by Dinah on January 31, 2004, at 21:56:00
>
> Heavens, I'm exposing my bad taste everywhere on the board. Should I admit that I like the salad at the Olive Garden (though admittedly that's all I like there).(Don't tell anyone, 'K? I like one of their soups...)
>
> I'm going to have to ask my husband about that sexual fantasy thing. I trust him to be honest. It would honestly gross me out to think of my therapist having any sexual fantasies either within the confines of his office or that originated in his office. Sort of like sullying a pure sanctuary combined with thinking of your parents and sex at the same time.
>OK, that one cracked me up. Not too much detail, but my father -- who had been divorced by my mother when I was tiny, and who was basically homosexual -- once told me that my mother was "a lusty lass!!" Can you imagine? I already knew he was gay and was involved with other men, and he still told everyone he was really straight -- and then he mentions to me that My Mother -- the blessed virgin -- was a lusty lass?
>
>
> I think you guys are right though. Wouldn't that knowledge taint at least aspects of future therapy? I like therapist transparency and am not a fan of the blank slate, but could you openly talk about sex or relationships if you knew your therapist had had sexual fantasies about you? I would be secondguessing every word I said for fear that I was trying to encourage or discourage the fantasies.I agree. There's a wicked part of me that would love to get into a flirting match with my pdoc, and have him respond in kind, but then I sit back and ask myself what it would accomplish? Nothing Good is the only answer I can come up with. (Which doesn't mean that I don't want to know if he's married, gay, attracted to me, only that I know better than to ask. It wouldn't help me, although if it would help someone else, go for it.)
Posted by tinydancer on February 1, 2004, at 3:52:48
In reply to Dear me! » Dinah, posted by Racer on February 1, 2004, at 0:40:08
No, the knowledge hasn't tainted therapy for me at all. I have to be open and honest with my T about whatever it is on my mind. No matter what that may be. It was terribly difficult to ask but he respected my desire for an answer. He honors my honesty by being honest with me himself and that means a lot to me. I know that he is married with children and that he does not want to cheat on his wife, he has spelled it out for me, so him admitting to sexual fantasizing about me doesn't change his standpoint.
I also agree that it is natural to have sexual thoughts about a lot of people, but I think after I admitted that I was having feelings for him and was attracted to him that it was maybe natural and even human instinct to think about me in a sexual nature.
My T is only a few years older than me, and we share a lot of similar interests and opinions, and I have been attracted to him since the first day I saw him. To me it isn't 100% transference. I care about him a lot and think he is a wonderful person.
Even though I said this to my T there was definitley no flirting going on. He answered my questions in a serious, thoughtful way, being clear to establish that this didn't mean that he had changed his mind about my "propositions" (I always ask him if he would just take me out for one night! Just one night!!) He also has a sense of humor and I think an amazing sense of boundaries. Like....I don't get a hug, even when I ask. Makes me mad but honestly, who knows where that could lead. Even I had to admit that if I did get a hug, I would go for "as good as it can get" hugging!!
But I think its amazing to be able to talk to your T about anything and have such an honest relationship. I could never trust him otherwise.
Posted by tinydancer on February 1, 2004, at 3:55:44
In reply to Re: Asking T if he has sexual fantasies about you pt2, posted by Elle2021 on January 31, 2004, at 11:40:54
> > What is your reaction to that he answered yes?
>
> Shock! I can't believe he just openly admitted to it, but I like the way he assured you that the fantasies weren't obsessively happening. What did you say to him after he said yes?
> Elle
>
>
Yes, I was amazed too. Almost so shocked that I couldn't do much more than smile and blush. And I actually do not remember what I said after he said yes. I think because he continued on making it clear that this wasn't happening all the time or this wasn't like an obsession that was keeping him awake at night...So then I didn't really get any ideas up and going...I just sort of said OK when he was finished explaining I think. Oh, and then he asked me if I had about him! Then I was saying..."Um...Well, if you don't know the answer to that...!!" He just answered with his "...Ok.." Heehee....
I have a lot of sexual problems so I think it is really positive for me to be able to talk openly about it.
Posted by tinydancer on February 1, 2004, at 4:00:22
In reply to Re: Asking T if he has sexual fantasies about you pt2, posted by Karen_kay on January 31, 2004, at 12:19:53
> WOOOOOOOWWWW!!!! Ummmm...wow! Utter shock! I can't believe he admitted it! Girl, you have courage to ask that. It's amazing that you had the courage to ask your therapist that question. It almost makes me wonder if we are seeing the same therapist...
I couldn't believe I had the guts either. But it was more like this compulsive thing. I had to ask, I couldn't get it off my mind. But I also feel that I will not gain anything unless I am open with my T as much as I can be. And that means to me not concealing anything, no matter how uncomfortable that truth may be.
>
> It's hard to say whether he was in the right by answering that question. How did that make you feel when he answered it? I can tell by your post that you have "propositioned" him numerous times, am I correct? Is this a habit of yours?It's OK!! Um....Not a habit, but I have reminded him a few times or asked him a few times why he won't take me out, for just one night. That's sort of my standing offer. And when he answered me I was actually dead shocked, I mean, that isn't an emotion I feel very often but I was shocked. Not aroused though. If he had given details maybe....
(Pardon me for being nosey, I'm sorry and feel free to teel me to kiss off, just being curious)... I'd say he had a reason for answering your question.
He respected my desire to know, respected that I had dared to ask, mustered up the courage to ask so he honored that with a reply, is how I think of it. (Gee, can you tell I adore the guy? I make him sound like a knight or something...)
>
> It's great to know that your therapist will answer your questions and be honest. I have a similar relationship with mine. And it's all about trust and trying to see that he's "human"..
> How much did him answering your question raise your trust in him?
> I bet you trust him a whole lot more now, right?I do trust him more in a different way. I realize that he can handle any question I throw his way. That means a lot. That he won't laugh at me, that means more than anything.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 1, 2004, at 4:09:18
In reply to Re: Asking T if he has sexual fantasies about you, posted by Racer on January 31, 2004, at 12:39:30
Yeah, I think I agree with Racer's first post... There are different kinds of 'fantasy'...
Also what was your T supposed to say:OPTION ONE: 'no'. In which case you think he is a liar and get mad at him. Also you feel none to good about yourself.
OPTION TWO: 'yes'. You are happy and trust him more (given the way you feel about this issue).
I think that it was good that he explored why it was important to you a bit. I would be interested to know more about that part of the conversation (though maybe I am being just too nosey..). In any case it seemed to help you rather than harm you that he said what he did and so it was probably a good thing that he said what he did in your case.
I am not meaning to suggest that he lied - I think you would have probably been able to tell if he had. But what KIND of sexual fantasies did he have (I find myself wondering...). Perhaps I am being a party killer again (sigh) but I wonder how 'yes' helps the issue????
Posted by tinydancer on February 1, 2004, at 5:14:44
In reply to Re: Asking T if he has sexual fantasies about you, posted by alexandra_k on February 1, 2004, at 4:09:18
I know my T would never lie to me. He asked me if I was prepared for a yes or a no answer and I answered honestly.
You're not being a party killer, it is fun to explore the issue I think. I don't know how I could narrow down how Yes helps or doesn't help the issue. I think he just respects that I am entitled to ask the questions I want without him getting angry. And that he will take responsibility for answering. The circumstances are important to take into consideration too, that I described in the other posts.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 1, 2004, at 6:27:18
In reply to Re: Asking T if he has sexual fantasies about you » alexandra_k, posted by tinydancer on February 1, 2004, at 5:14:44
Yes. You posted your last couple of responses while I was composing mine so I didn't see them till after my post. It sounds like things worked out well for you and your relationship with your T has improved in a positive way.
It is hard because every situation is different and it is difficult to grasp anothers situation properly without clarification.. It looks like you read the situation with your T well, took a measured risk, and you achieved a good result. I don't have a situation where I can talk to my T about anything (yet) so that is something that I need to work on..
Posted by pegasus on February 1, 2004, at 23:31:58
In reply to Asking T if he has sexual fantasies about you pt2, posted by tinydancer on January 31, 2004, at 10:48:37
You guys are so great! I'm loving this thread, and learning so much. I appreciate everyone who explained how knowing the answer to the sexual fantasy question might be detrimental to therapy. I really hadn't thought of how it might change the dynamic within therapy (although now that seems obvious). And I also appreciate tinydancer's explanation of how it seems to have been beneficial in her case. This is really something to think about! Thanks everyone.
-p
Posted by Fallen4myT on February 4, 2004, at 23:30:53
In reply to Asking T if he has sexual fantasies about you pt2, posted by tinydancer on January 31, 2004, at 10:48:37
My reaction is I am jealous :) and just picked myself off the floor from being in shock at your being so brave. I hope my T has hot thoughts on me but I doubt he would answer. I am also too afraid to ask. Brave you and WOOOO HOO
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.