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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on October 24, 2002, at 12:06:40
As much as I fear and dislike the anger of others, it is my own anger that terrifies me the most. I'm okay with the intellectual sort of anger, but the visceral sort scares me to death. If I am angry with someone, I get so afraid that I have to undo it or channel it towards myself.
My therapist is trying to get me to work on this - to try to recognize the roots of the fear and to try to experience feeling angry with him. But I just can't do it. It is just too frightening for me.
It's not that I'm afraid I'll hurt anyone so much as I'm afraid a relationship cannot survive anger. At least not intact. And all the reassurance in the world doesn't help that terror.
Posted by ROO on October 24, 2002, at 15:53:12
In reply to Fear of being angry., posted by Dinah on October 24, 2002, at 12:06:40
Me too. Can totally relate. And I will channel
it towards myself too. On the flip side, in situations
where I've discovered the relationship CAN survive my
fits of anger...it's been extremely rewarding, elating and bonding
experience....
Posted by Kari on October 24, 2002, at 16:21:10
In reply to Fear of being angry., posted by Dinah on October 24, 2002, at 12:06:40
Hi Dinah,
Know what you mean- I have the same problem. It feels as though the anger has to be totally repressed or else it will be utterly destructive.
Hope it will become easier for you with time.
Kari.
Posted by Pfinstegg on October 24, 2002, at 23:35:56
In reply to Re: Fear of being angry., posted by Kari on October 24, 2002, at 16:21:10
I have a lot of difficulty with anger towards important/loved people, too- terrified that they will leave if I do anything other than be "nice", even when "nice" is not called for. My therapist, like yours, has made a big point of asking me to engage my angry feelings with her as they come up. It's very scary to do, but I have been doing it as best I can anyway. It's worth it! I'm finding that somewhere deep inside myself things are really changing. I think I am learning, emotionally, not just intellectually, that anger is part of all relationships, and that it does blend in with love, joy and closeness- it isn't necessarily destructive.
When I express the fear that my therapist won't want to keep on seeing me if I keep on getting so angry at her, she replies that I have just one thing to fear- that I won't get angry and will try to cover it all up instead. So.. I just have to keep on!
Pfinstegg
Posted by Dinah on October 25, 2002, at 1:26:53
In reply to Re: Fear of being angry. » Kari, posted by Pfinstegg on October 24, 2002, at 23:35:56
Thanks, it helps to know I'm not alone.
You know, the really funny part is that it's not so much that I think the relationship will be destroyed because the other person will leave (although I probably fear that too).
The really scary thought is that the relationship will be destroyed because when I get angry enough with the people in my life often enough, my feelings towards them change and they become unimportant to me. I'm afraid the relationship will be destroyed by me. And if I can keep the anger directed towards me, I won't jeopardize important relationships.
I guess I'm afraid that my anger can emotionally (not physically of course) terminate the people I care about. And that's awfully lonely.
So do I trust my history? Or do I trust my therapist when he says that my relationships are doomed to a certain lack of depth if I can't feel anger towards others? Or do I first work on being able to hold on to good feelings while feeling bad feelings too? Because it just seems like too big a chance to take. I just don't think I'm ready for this assignment.
Posted by Pfinstegg on October 25, 2002, at 12:32:26
In reply to Re: Fear of being angry. , posted by Dinah on October 25, 2002, at 1:26:53
What you say is so insightful- about being afraid that anger will make YOU less loving or caring- that trying to deal with it ends up making you feel more detached. I have certainly had that experience, too, although not nearly as much at present, now that I have started trying to deal with the rage which comes, seemingly out of nowhere, in my therapy hours, and which I feel really ashamed and anxious about.
When you do feel ready, take it in tiny bits at a time, so that you can integrate it, rather than fall into a state of intense anxiety or self-hatred over it. Having had basically the same kind of psychoanalytically oriented psychotherapy 35 years ago with a male therapist, I think dealing with anger is key to deepening one's relationship with the therapist, and by extension, with others in one's life. It's so hard, though, isn't it?
Pfinstegg
Posted by Kari on October 25, 2002, at 15:31:16
In reply to Re: Fear of being angry. , posted by Dinah on October 25, 2002, at 1:26:53
Yes, the fear of anger changing feelings towards the person is very difficult. Also, knowing that this will lead to a feeling of being alone in the world and having to contain the anger, not being able to see beyond it.
I wish I had some advice for you...
Posted by Dinah on October 25, 2002, at 17:41:08
In reply to Re: Fear of being angry. » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on October 25, 2002, at 12:32:26
It is indeed hard. But I am blessed with a therapist who recognizes my need to move in baby steps. My glacier slow progress seems like no progress at all unless you measure it in years. :)
But slowly, his ideas seep through and I do incorporate them. So slowly, and in stages, I'll try to stop fighting my anger. Plus that gives me lots of time to retreat if necessary. (grin)
Thanks,
Dinah
Posted by Dinah on October 25, 2002, at 17:43:59
In reply to Re: Fear of being angry. , posted by Kari on October 25, 2002, at 15:31:16
That's it, exactly, Kari. It's happened so many times before. I find myself emotionally divorcing myself from people as much as I try not to do it. Because somehow relationships with others help keep me grounded, and I have this fear that if I distance myself from everyone I'll just drift away myself. Directing the anger towards myself instead seems a small price to pay for connectedness.
Dinah
Posted by Kari on October 26, 2002, at 8:29:39
In reply to Re: Fear of being angry. » Kari, posted by Dinah on October 25, 2002, at 17:43:59
<Directing the anger towards myself instead seems a small price to pay for connectedness.>
It really does seem to be a small price. Perhaps, however, it is a bigger price than we can be aware of .
Posted by Dinah on October 26, 2002, at 9:36:42
In reply to Re: Fear of being angry. » Dinah, posted by Kari on October 26, 2002, at 8:29:39
> <Directing the anger towards myself instead seems a small price to pay for connectedness.>
>
> It really does seem to be a small price. Perhaps, however, it is a bigger price than we can be aware of .
>Perhaps.
You know when I see it written there, with your kind and very wise reply, it makes me think that it is a belief of mine that might need to be more closely scrutinized.
Thanks,
Dinah
Posted by Kari on October 27, 2002, at 7:25:57
In reply to Re: Fear of being angry. » Kari, posted by Dinah on October 26, 2002, at 9:36:42
Hopefully, working on it at a slow pace and taking it one step at a time will make it seem less overwhelming :)
Take care,
Kari.
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on November 4, 2002, at 8:43:12
In reply to Fear of being angry., posted by Dinah on October 24, 2002, at 12:06:40
> As much as I fear and dislike the anger of others, it is my own anger that terrifies me the most. I'm okay with the intellectual sort of anger, but the visceral sort scares me to death. If I am angry with someone, I get so afraid that I have to undo it or channel it towards myself.
-----------------------We seem to be pretty similar. I have the same problem with expressing anger in any useful way. It's either suppression and avoidance, or blind rage. It's obvious to me that I've adapted this avoidance of anger because of the frequent and terrifying displays of anger from my father. I wanted to be the complete opposite of him, and have grown to equate anger with malevolence, and having no useful function.
The few times I have allowed myself to express anger have been bad... breaking things, storming off, etc. I've also noticed that I tend not to get upset with things that people do to me, but can become easily agitated when I see someone else getting put upon, especially if it's someone I care for.
I'd be interested to hear what else your therapist recommends for this problem.
Posted by Dinah on November 4, 2002, at 9:44:35
In reply to Re: Fear of being angry. » Dinah, posted by Eddie Sylvano on November 4, 2002, at 8:43:12
Well, I always end up self injuring in response to my anger. And my therapist thinks I need to feel and express the anger appropriately in order to not self injure. And that I can start by being angry with him and seeing that it won't hurt anything. But so far I haven't been able to do it very well. Any display of anger is followed by the compulsive need to apologize and grovel.
Now the assertive calm sort of anger I express readily. If I think something is wrong, I can say so clearly. I can even really calmly express visceral anger. My husband jokes that I say "I am enraged" in a totally calm, flat voice. But as much as he jokes about it, he never remembers that when I say that I mean it. Sigh.
My parents were the angry yelling sort, and I used to be able to yell with the best of them. But there was such a lack of love, caring, and connection in that household. I just don't want to cut off the few connections I still have.
This is the end of the thread.
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