![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by okydoky on May 24, 2008, at 23:10:42
Maybe this is not the place for this post. It has been on my mind ever so much lately. I do not know where to post it or even if these never spoken thoughts should be given the light of day.
Sometimes I look outside myself, at me when I was much younger, and I grieve for this person. For the small girl who was so unhappy, for the student who never fit in, for the unending sorrow that I see when I look back, for the person who never was, never could be. Not for lack of trying.
I feel this for others close to me but not when they are "living" life. I believe I feel such sorrow because I did experience a few short times when I felt "alive". Bad things still happened as much as good but I was "living." I felt both the pain and the pleasure when I was alive.
I often think if I were "alive" I would be content with where my life is, who I have become and continue to become. I could be in the now and not grieving the past or the future that will never be.
Do others here grieve for the person they could never become? For the younger self who had so much potential? What a waste. When I look outside myself as if I were not me, as if I were looking at a movie of another little girl growing up into a teen and then a woman I feel a suffocating sadness. Im not talking about self pity. Im very good at that indeed. Its more of an objective experience.Sometimes I get so angry at my family for not nurturing that little girl when she needed it. I don't think they liked her. I like her but not who she has become. I love her. She was sweet and honest, uncomplicated and trusting. I am bitter and angry, untrusting, suspicious, selfish...
How can I ever understand or love those that neglected such an innocent child when all I want to do is reach into the past and nurture her and tell her I will hold her hand through it all and lift her up when she cannot do it for herself?Sometime I dream I go back and hold her tight. I hug her and cuddle her and shelter her from harm. She is warm and content and not alone. She shares her happiness with others. They like that. They like her. Perhaps love her. Now I am me, abandoned, unloved, and untouchable.
This must read so narcissistic. I never wanted to be that way. Now I just never want to be.
Maybe someone can relate to this personal grief I live with.
oky
Posted by fayeroe on May 25, 2008, at 8:07:38
In reply to Grief of Self, posted by okydoky on May 24, 2008, at 23:10:42
To put mine in a nutshell...."I want my joy back"....
I understand what you are saying. It is not narcisissitic,
I believe that more people feel this way than we can imagine.
Posted by okydoky on May 25, 2008, at 8:38:01
In reply to Re: Grief of Self » okydoky, posted by fayeroe on May 25, 2008, at 8:07:38
When I saw you respond I looked at a few of your recent posts and there interactions. You seem happy. THsi seems perhps like a place for happier times, this board. I am glad. It ws fun to read such fun and uplifting stuff. I am glad for you.
oky
Posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2008, at 11:52:48
In reply to Re: Grief of Self » fayeroe, posted by okydoky on May 25, 2008, at 8:38:01
I also long for those times of feeling great being young with so much ahead to look forward to now it's settle for what I have. But since this is self-esteem I drove myself 250 miles in the car alone yesterday to buy some boutique clothers for my ebay. I haven't driven like that in years. And drove to stuff myself two other days this week. It's so wierd and strange to be by myself doing what to me is incrediable. I always need my husband with me and he won't go out of the house. So I went alone. Phillipa
Posted by okydoky on May 25, 2008, at 12:30:11
In reply to Re: Grief of Self, posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2008, at 11:52:48
Phillipa,
I do not know you but for a few interactions. Let me say though that having the emotional and physical energy and MOTIVATION to do the task you set out to do because you wanted to is something great. At least in my life it would be astounding. You should feel great about it. I guess you found out you did not need your husband and could do this for yourself.
I do not long for my younger years, for times past. I would not like to repeat them at all. I grieve for the past that I never had. For the continued promise as each year sped by that I would want to live, be able to extract some modicum of pleasure from the experience of life. In part I suppose I grieve more now because there is so little time left even if I were able to live but also because I am tired. I am worn down. I dont have the energy to try anymore.
I do know I am very glad about your trip. When I have been able to do things for myself I always feel better about myslef.
Good for you,
oky
Posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2008, at 12:38:35
In reply to Re: Grief of Self » Phillipa, posted by okydoky on May 25, 2008, at 12:30:11
Thanks but I don't feel better isn't that wierd? did in the car but when got home felt like leaving again and then the screaming started just like when I was a kid with my Mother only not it a husband. I gave him his wish a day alone. Seems the more I give the worse off I am. Don't know why? You are younger than me you must have something you would like to do? No good days at all in your past? I'm so sorry. Love Phillipa
Posted by okydoky on May 25, 2008, at 13:55:13
In reply to Re: Grief of Self » okydoky, posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2008, at 12:38:35
"Thanks but I don't feel better isn't that weird? did in the car but when got home felt like leaving again and then the screaming started just like when I was a kid with my Mother only not it a husband."I wonder why you are able to experience feeling good from your own accomplishments but what is grabbing it away from you and why? Is it being home or would your spirits drop regardless of where or with whom you are with? Can you hold onto that self esteem in other circumstances? Do you find yourself with a mate who interacts with you, at least on some occasions, in a similar pattern as with your Mother? I think this is very common. I'm not saying youre in an abusive relationship her but using the following example. Many women who find themselves in abusive relationships got there because right or wrong the interaction, even if it were not obvious and on the surface at the beginning was familiar to them. It is what in there lives has been the "norm" from childhood. It could have been by direct experience or by the observation of the child of the parents. (More my case I think). Could you change your behavior or how you react and would it help?
"I gave him his wish a day alone. Seems the more I give the worse off I am. Don't know why?"
What are you giving? Time, work, emotion...? What makes you worse off? It sounds like it is never enough? IS it asking too much of you? You need to take care of your own needs. Pleasing someone else can only ever be a part of one's own needs.
"You are younger than me you must have something you would like to do? No good days at all in your past?"
I have had good days in the past. Not for several years now though. I think the memory is the only thing that sustains me at all. Knowing that as few as they were there were times I felt alive. Times I looked towards a future and things I still wanted to do. When nothing within myself or outside lifts my mood what then would I want to do? Nothing!
Youre going to figure it all out. I just know it. You want to and that means everything.
Take care in the meantime,
oky
Posted by fayeroe on May 25, 2008, at 16:45:24
In reply to Grief of Self, posted by okydoky on May 24, 2008, at 23:10:42
Okydoky, i do not wish for my youth either. i can cause enough problems for myself in my 60s. :-)
cherish the little girl and hold her. in my 40s, i found myself remembering stuff that happened to me as a child....it was hard working through it..it took years...but i did cherish the little girl that was there...i comforted her and ihad some good laughs remembering the stuff that she did while growing up. getting into trouble at school, riding the "big" horse after being told not to....
sometimes we just have to lean into the pain to heal ourselves. if you need to talk, babblemail me. pat
Posted by okydoky on May 25, 2008, at 19:58:05
In reply to Re: Grief of Self » okydoky, posted by fayeroe on May 25, 2008, at 16:45:24
Thanks for the understanding. I am tired tonight. I will speak with you someother time.
oky
Posted by Sigismund on May 26, 2008, at 19:20:01
In reply to Grief of Self, posted by okydoky on May 24, 2008, at 23:10:42
Relations in families can become so poisonous.
It's no big deal to hate your kids for a bit; what bugs me is when people act on it and make things so much worse.You are right: life is so full of terrible waste.
There is not so much I can look back on to derive comfort from except one very important thing....that it appears that I/we have managed to bring up two kids tolerably well, so that they look as if they can cope in the world.
When I was 10 or so I wanted to learn Judo. I got a Teach Yourself Judo book and tried to practice on myself. It seems much clearer now.
(If my kids had said they wanted to do that we would have organised it for them.)
That was a turning point, a path never taken that left behind a healthy impulse. Some parents do not know how to begin to listen.I gained some comfort from reading TS Eliot, particularly The Wasteland and the Four Quartets, though you might not.
The Four Quartets are all about time and self.
I wouldn't want to repeat it either.
He says somewhere "I was born, and once was enough".
It's strange: such a beautiful world which is, at the same time, a dead loss.You can spend a long long time in really bad spaces.
I'm tempted to say that abandoning all hope of improvement is a prerequisite for getting out of those spaces, but then I would.
Posted by Sigismund on May 27, 2008, at 3:12:14
In reply to Re: Grief of Self, posted by Sigismund on May 26, 2008, at 19:20:01
>I'm tempted to say that abandoning all hope of improvement is a prerequisite for getting out of those spaces, but then I would.
I've been wondering what I meant by this.It is something to do with ego and surrender.
I think a lot of suffering stems from our desire.
Maybe the less we want the better we feel?Young people (like I was) have lots of things about themselves with which they are dissatisfied, and seeking to enforce their desires may lead nowhere.
I suppose I am trying to conceptualise acceptance.
Posted by fayeroe on May 27, 2008, at 9:17:21
In reply to Re: Grief of Self » Sigismund, posted by Sigismund on May 27, 2008, at 3:12:14
> >I'm tempted to say that abandoning all hope of improvement is a prerequisite for getting out of those spaces, but then I would.
>
>
> I've been wondering what I meant by this.
>
> It is something to do with ego and surrender.
> I think a lot of suffering stems from our desire.
> Maybe the less we want the better we feel?
>
> Young people (like I was) have lots of things about themselves with which they are dissatisfied, and seeking to enforce their desires may lead nowhere.
>
> I suppose I am trying to conceptualise acceptance.Sisismund, I wondered what you meant when I read it because if I give up hope of improvement then I'll be in a worse space.
My ego needs to surrender to being in my space and I must quit looking back and wanting what I did have. Material comforts, I miss them.
My emotional state is so bad right now and I am certainly suffering from my desires.
You've helped me tremendously this morning. Thank you. It is always so helpful to read something that someone writes and you know it was intended for "you".....:-)
Acceptance, acceptance, acceptance....I am the one looking back and I am the one who can turn my head around and go forward.
This is not to take away from anyone else's struggles.
I still want my joy back....Pat
Posted by okydoky on May 27, 2008, at 9:34:08
In reply to Re: Grief of Self » Sigismund, posted by Sigismund on May 27, 2008, at 3:12:14
> >I'm tempted to say that abandoning all hope of improvement is a prerequisite for getting out of those spaces, but then I would.
>
>
> I've been wondering what I meant by this.
>
> It is something to do with ego and surrender.
> I think a lot of suffering stems from our desire.
> Maybe the less we want the better we feel?
>
> Young people (like I was) have lots of things about themselves with which they are dissatisfied, and seeking to enforce their desires may lead nowhere.
>
> I suppose I am trying to conceptualise acceptance.
I dissagree that "abandoning all hope of improvement is a prerequisite for getting out of those spaces"If all hope is abandoned there can be no cause for movement. The hope precipitates all else.
I do think that acceptancance of self is prerequisit to any self improvement. The ego and its' desire for self aggrandizement too often gets in the way.
I have not read much for quite a long time. Perhaps I will make the attempt here.
Posted by fayeroe on May 27, 2008, at 9:45:24
In reply to Re: Grief of Self » fayeroe, posted by okydoky on May 25, 2008, at 8:38:01
> When I saw you respond I looked at a few of your recent posts and there interactions. You seem happy. THsi seems perhps like a place for happier times, this board. I am glad. It ws fun to read such fun and uplifting stuff. I am glad for you.
>
> okyThis is a very good board, Oky. In fact, it is one of my favourites....politics being the other.
I am happy and if you can do this, sometimes the happiness comes from my unhappiness. I find that I start overthinking things and dig myself a deeper hole....something snaps and I realize that I'm in control here and I fight my way back to "happy".....being on this board certainly helps me alot.
This board seems to breed "content" after awhile. No egos, no arguing, no one cares about PBCs, because we never are "uncivil" to one another here.
I am so glad that you're here and I hope to see much more of you as days go by.
xoxox pat
Posted by karen_kay on May 27, 2008, at 10:24:31
In reply to Grief of Self, posted by okydoky on May 24, 2008, at 23:10:42
jeez, i hear ya! i think i really do understand what you're saying. when i was younger (40 years ago! i'm jsut kiddin, i'll be 29 this year and that big 30 is coming fast!!!), i used to want soooo badly to help the world somehow. but, i never knew how really. i felt everythign i did was jsut nothign in comparison to what others have accomplished.
i wanted a career. somethign that would help people, somehow. and i knew that was my purtpose, yet it hurt so fuckign bad knowing i wasn't doing it, you know?
so yeah, i really do grieve for that person i wanted to become. but you know what, in a way, i am that person, just not how i envisioned it. (i don't know if this makes sense at all). but, i'm just 'doing my thing' right now, raising a wonderful son who will have respect, honor, morals (well, kinda :) and treat women with respect. i'm doing my part right now, even if it doesn't feel like it.
and, i still know that i can do those thigns i've always wanted to.
i can change the world, one way or another dear. and you can too. sh*t, who knows, maybe jsut by posting here we're doing something, you know?
sometimes i really don't like talking (writing, whatever) about this stuff. because, like you, it does get to me a bit. but i know whatever my purpose is here, i'll fullfill it, even if it doesn't seem like i'm doign a damn thing but writing silly jokes, changing diapers, and singing nursery ryhmes till my head does numb.
i hear you hun, loud and clear (i think?)
people change thigns, without even knowing. and trust me, there are plenty of people in your place right now. i'm one of em!
take care fo yourself. you're doign a good job. grieve, but please don't regret. that's how you learn, you know?
tata!
kk
Posted by okydoky on May 27, 2008, at 10:41:16
In reply to Grief of past.. » okydoky, posted by karen_kay on May 27, 2008, at 10:24:31
Few of us have lives we envisioned as young adults. Our priorities change, our needs, our ambitions.
Success is not getting what you thought you needed but accepting what you end up with. The thing is to have acceptance you have to have ended up with , and continue to evolve , with something. Anything!
I am glad you have had success.oky
Posted by okydoky on August 2, 2008, at 14:39:45
In reply to Re: Grief of past.., posted by okydoky on May 27, 2008, at 10:41:16
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Self-Esteem | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.