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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Larry Hoover on May 24, 2006, at 9:32:50
In reply to Oh no!!, posted by LOOPS on May 12, 2006, at 17:03:19
> After one (or was it more?) weeks of just doing magnesium I started getting heart palpitations and my insomnia came back full force. One night the palps got so bad I thought I was going to die. Anyone else get this from magnesium?
Only people who have problems with their parathyroid hormone level or responsivity. I really think you should see a doctor, and get your electrolytes and urinalysis done. And PTH level.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 24, 2006, at 9:40:59
In reply to Re: To: LOOPS, posted by LOOPS on May 13, 2006, at 9:48:48
> Any more ideas? I really want this to work for me! I spent so much money on different supplements and don't want to be back at the start again.
>
> Thanks
>
> LoopsActually, another thing occurred to me. Hypochlorhydria or achlorhydria, low or no stomach acid. Didn't you have a B12 problem, once upon a time?
In any case, poor digestion of fats is the result, and calcium and magnesium require fat to bind to the divalent cation pumps in the gut.
Helicobacter pylori infection can do this, too.
You end up with malnutrition, despite even consuming an excellent diet. Intake is not the same as uptake.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 24, 2006, at 9:44:55
In reply to Re:, posted by LOOPS on May 13, 2006, at 19:33:38
> I guess it depends on genes, lifestyle, elimination etc. I'm not giving up on it yet though - but mineral balance is an odd thing. So for now I will keep taking both cal and mag and see what happens. I have a feeling I need slightly more mag than cal in the long run, but not by much.
>
> Take care
>
> LoopsIf you're taking dolomite, you're crunching your stomach acid even further, if you have a tendency to produce too little in the first place. Dolomite is an antacid. See my last post to you.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 24, 2006, at 9:45:35
In reply to Re: » Glydin, posted by jerrympls on May 13, 2006, at 17:59:16
> Luckily I'm in contact with a good friend who is a chemist and knows everything about supplementation and has helped guide me while starting new supplements. He's been VERY good at reminding me that just because they're supplements doesn't mean they can't be harmful or used in excess. (Thanks Larry!!)
>
> Jerry
Thanks, Jerr.I'll get to your emails eventually.
Lar
Posted by LOOPS on May 24, 2006, at 12:45:57
In reply to Re: » jerrympls, posted by Larry Hoover on May 24, 2006, at 9:45:35
Dolomite is an antacid? Ok - better not take that then.
I don't have any digestive problems, and my diet is high in fat (low-carb). I eat nuts, greens, most low-carb veggies, some cheese, butter, cream,lard, meat, fish and before tennis some carbs in the form of bananas or chocolate. I would say my digestion has improved about a bajillion since going low-carb.
If I had B12 issues before from being vegan (did that like 3 years ago) they have most certainly been resolved now as I eat a lot of animal products.
I can only think it must be the Ca:Mg balance. I've seen a couple of more absorbable supplements out there - one is a 1:1 cal/mag citrate, and the other is 2:1 cal/mag made up of different chelates. However I have a big pot full of magnesium malate, so maybe I should just buy a low-dose calcium supplement and take that in addition.
Loops
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 24, 2006, at 16:53:21
In reply to Re:, posted by LOOPS on May 24, 2006, at 12:45:57
> Dolomite is an antacid? Ok - better not take that then.
Absolutely. That's what makes up most of the antacid capacity in Tums. Carbonate ion uses up one acid to make bicarbonate. Bicarbonate uses up one more to become free CO2. You're down two acid molecules for every atom of calcium or magnesium, and you burp.
> I don't have any digestive problems, and my diet is high in fat (low-carb). I eat nuts, greens, most low-carb veggies, some cheese, butter, cream,lard, meat, fish and before tennis some carbs in the form of bananas or chocolate. I would say my digestion has improved about a bajillion since going low-carb.
>
> If I had B12 issues before from being vegan (did that like 3 years ago) they have most certainly been resolved now as I eat a lot of animal products.Did you ever supplement B12? B12 deficiency is one of those vicious circles. Being B12 deficient means you can't produce stomach acid. Being unable to produce stomach acid means you can't free B12 from food, and you just poop it out, even if there is a goodly amount in your diet. The only solution, if someone has gotten to that point, is megadose oral (mg doses, hundreds of times the RDA), or intramuscular injection. A B12 shot. Preferably, a series of shots.
As I said, this can be exacerbated by Helicobacter, which also produces hypochlorhydria by infecting the acid pumps.
> I can only think it must be the Ca:Mg balance. I've seen a couple of more absorbable supplements out there - one is a 1:1 cal/mag citrate, and the other is 2:1 cal/mag made up of different chelates. However I have a big pot full of magnesium malate, so maybe I should just buy a low-dose calcium supplement and take that in addition.
>
> LoopsAny of those is fine.
Lar
Posted by LOOPS on May 26, 2006, at 9:34:35
In reply to Re: » LOOPS, posted by Larry Hoover on May 24, 2006, at 16:53:21
Hi -
well I've taken a multi-vitamin and sometimes extra B complex for the past 5 years. My recent multi I actually changed because it had absolutely huge amounts of B12 in it and smaller amounts of the other ones. I'm prone to high histamine which I think B12 raises, and I'm also pretty sure B12 is one of those B vits that increases my anxiety. I do better with higher B1 and B3, and lower amounts of the others.
Well I never got burping from the dolomite - but then my stomach seems to be made from steel as I can chew up fish oil caps on an empty stomach and not get any burping etc.
Have recently discovered that calcium makes me constipated, even with magnesium thrown in.
Loops
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 26, 2006, at 10:08:06
In reply to Re:, posted by LOOPS on May 26, 2006, at 9:34:35
> Well I never got burping from the dolomite - but then my stomach seems to be made from steel as I can chew up fish oil caps on an empty stomach and not get any burping etc.
I think you have figured it out. Fish oil on an empty stomach should give you rancid fish burps. If you don't get those, your stomach isn't acid enough.
Get some betaine hydrochloride. This time, not trimethylglycine freebase. The hydrochloride salt. Take as directed on the bottle, but the maximum suggested dose.
And bromelain. Pineapple enzymes that cleave proteins. Without sufficient acid, your own stomach enzymes can't work. Your stomach secretes pepsinogen, not pepsin. Without acid, it can't even start working. That's how your stomach won't digest itself. The enzymes only work in a highly acid environment.
Get some hydrolyzed protein. Whey protein, I would suggest, unless you are sensitive to dairy. Make sure it's hydrolyzed, not just whey powder. Your body cannot absorb proteins properly, because of the lack of acid. Hydrolyzed whey protein is pre-digested.
You may start feeling better right away, with these changes. I pray it is so.
Lar
Posted by Phillipa on May 26, 2006, at 16:07:49
In reply to Re: » LOOPS, posted by Larry Hoover on May 26, 2006, at 10:08:06
Lar I thought B complex was good for anxiety and helped to calm you? Love Phillipa
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 30, 2006, at 8:35:58
In reply to Re: » Larry Hoover, posted by Phillipa on May 26, 2006, at 16:07:49
> Lar I thought B complex was good for anxiety and helped to calm you? Love Phillipa
There is no simple rule that covers all people in all situations. B-complex promotes resiliency to stress. You are less likely to feel overwhelmed. However, some of the B-vitamins are stimulating. Stimulation can be bad, if your body shifts into anxiety.
Anybody who has a chronic anxiety condition will have an enhanced need for B-vitamins. They're best used as a B-complex, a balanced blend containing all of them.
But don't forget, niacinamide is a form of vitamin B3, and it is calming. The B-complex might not be, because of counter-balancing stimulation. But there's nothing keeping you from adding extra niacinamide to calm things down again. Really, when I get wired, I take niacinamide 500 mg. It's never let me down, yet.
It also helps with hayfever/asthma. So much so, that I know I need niacinamide when my allergy symptoms exceed the capacity of my OTC antihistamine. When I do medicate for that reason, then I also notice the calming effect. It just hadn't reached my conscious mind that I was getting anxious. The allergy symptoms often precede my awareness of my anxiety.
Lar
Posted by LOOPS on May 31, 2006, at 12:35:26
In reply to Re: B-complex » Phillipa, posted by Larry Hoover on May 30, 2006, at 8:35:58
Hi -
well niacinamide actually made my allergies worse - I think it exacerbated my eczema and didn't help my hayfever. Also when I used to take it it would calm me down but also make me very depressed and antisocial - a bit like taking 5htp for more than one dose in a row. But that's just me!
I found B1 very useful though, and occasional B6 - the rest of the B vits I find useful in smallish doses - nothing above 10mg at a time.
YMMV of course!
Loops
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 31, 2006, at 16:08:09
In reply to Re: B-complex, posted by LOOPS on May 31, 2006, at 12:35:26
> Hi -
>
> well niacinamide actually made my allergies worse - I think it exacerbated my eczema and didn't help my hayfever. Also when I used to take it it would calm me down but also make me very depressed and antisocial - a bit like taking 5htp for more than one dose in a row. But that's just me!You know, if we had signature files here, mine would have to include a disclaimer. Like, this is how things are kind of sort of supposed to work, but anything is possible, and pay attention, dude!
I can feel niacinamide work, just like the literature said it ought to. It was must first real A-hah! substance. It takes 20 minutes for the niacinamide to kick in, and I'm golden.
The enzyme that switches niacin to niacinamide goes in both directions. It doesn't know front from back. Whichever "side" of the enzyme has more "stuff" available to it, becomes the input side. The product is produced until the enzyme is in a balanced concentration of reactants and products.
What I'm saying is, you may be one of those lucky people who turns niacinamide straight into niacin, which aggravates the situation that is trying to be manipulated the other direction.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 31, 2006, at 17:11:17
In reply to Re: B-complex, posted by LOOPS on May 31, 2006, at 12:35:26
> Hi -
>
> well niacinamide actually made my allergies worse - I think it exacerbated my eczema and didn't help my hayfever. Also when I used to take it it would calm me down but also make me very depressed and antisocial - a bit like taking 5htp for more than one dose in a row. But that's just me!
>
> I found B1 very useful though, and occasional B6 - the rest of the B vits I find useful in smallish doses - nothing above 10mg at a time.
>
> YMMV of course!
>
> LoopsDid you ever try Enada NADH?
Lar
Posted by LOOPS on June 1, 2006, at 9:06:12
In reply to Enada » LOOPS, posted by Larry Hoover on May 31, 2006, at 17:11:17
yes!
I took ENADA for about a week 3 years ago. However at the time I was just starting to get effects from sjw so was already a little off balance. I remember it kind of heightened the whole sjw experience for me - made me very energetic. However I think I got burnt out on both so ditched the ENADA. Also my insomnia was getting really bad - but I get this with sjw anyway.
As a side-note I have multiple bad habits - like I chew nicorette all day (I'm now addicted to the gum) and I still drink wine in the evenings. The only thing I've really managed to do is cut the wine down (due to low-carbing) - because more than 2 glasses and I'm really really sleepy and just go to bed. This is great, but I still drink every night, and sometimes at the weekend I drink more than two glasses. I'm pretty convinced this kind of addiction has led me to having deficiencies in just about everything - and I don't believe they know EVERYTHING to put in multivitamins. The whole magnesium thing is a good example. I didn't think for years that it is the one thing there is NEVER very much of in a bottle of vits - and guess what - it is depleted by smoking (prob too much nicotine as well from gum) and drinking alcohol etc.
I think I'm gradually getting better with things now - for one thing I no longer have to restrict calories to keep my weight down which means more nutrition, and also I have found some things very useful in the vitamin parade:
I love:
mag/ (balanced with calcium no more problems - sleeping like a log)
vitamin C balanced with zinc
vitamin E seems to help with insomnia
cod liver oil - I almost get 'high' off taking enough vitamin D in the Winter here - enough seems to be around the 1000IU mark for me but I get a lot of sun in the Summer
low-dose Bs as in Berrocca plus + occasional high dose B1 and B6
low-dose fish oil - good but I actually think my brain prefers the fish itself.
Melatonin - coupled with mag/cal 1.5mg very helpful.
Ginseng - give me more and more of the good quality stuff. Really seems to balance me out and even lift my mood a little. I like it because it seems to be a true adaptogen (other ones like Rhodiola seem to mess me up rather than help me adapt lol).That's it really these days. Oh sorry - there I go again having a bit of a ramble about myself. I don't know how I got onto that really!
So the ENADA was ok but I overdid it - maybe I could still use it occasionally. It was oddly calming and energizing at the same time I seem to remember - an effect I like.
Loops
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 1, 2006, at 10:13:50
In reply to Re: Enada, posted by LOOPS on June 1, 2006, at 9:06:12
> yes!
You need some. Methinks.
> The only thing I've really managed to do is cut the wine down (due to low-carbing) - because more than 2 glasses and I'm really really sleepy and just go to bed.
Low carbing.
If I invented a diet, would people follow it? Maybe that's what I should do. Write a diet book.
I'll call it the Throw Those Diet Books in the Trash Diet. It has one page. Guess what it tells you to do? [Hint: It's printed on recycleable paper.]
I think it is fine to avoid pure sugars, and bleached starches. But beyond that, moderation. Unless you're treating/managing specific symptoms. That's a whole different kettle of turnips from "the size 6 diet".
> This is great, but I still drink every night, and sometimes at the weekend I drink more than two glasses. I'm pretty convinced this kind of addiction has led me to having deficiencies in just about everything - and I don't believe they know EVERYTHING to put in multivitamins.
You know, all those other things we've been talking about take on a whole new light. Guess who would feel a whole lot better if she cut down on the ethanol intake? Trying to fix *that* with vitamins is a waste of time, you know.
> The whole magnesium thing is a good example. I didn't think for years that it is the one thing there is NEVER very much of in a bottle of vits - and guess what - it is depleted by smoking (prob too much nicotine as well from gum) and drinking alcohol etc.
Uh-huh. So, your requirement is increased, beyond your innate needs. You go into functional deficiencies, despite excellent diet, and increased supplementation.
> I think I'm gradually getting better with things now - for one thing I no longer have to restrict calories to keep my weight downSee earlier comment.
> which means more nutrition, and also I have found some things very useful in the vitamin parade:
>
> I love:
>
> mag/ (balanced with calcium no more problems - sleeping like a log)
> vitamin C balanced with zinc
> vitamin E seems to help with insomnia
> cod liver oil - I almost get 'high' off taking enough vitamin D in the Winter here - enough seems to be around the 1000IU mark for me but I get a lot of sun in the Summer
> low-dose Bs as in Berrocca plus + occasional high dose B1 and B6
> low-dose fish oil - good but I actually think my brain prefers the fish itself.Most people should simply eat more fish. But people like fish oil. Or something.
> Melatonin - coupled with mag/cal 1.5mg very helpful.
> Ginseng - give me more and more of the good quality stuff. Really seems to balance me out and even lift my mood a little. I like it because it seems to be a true adaptogen (other ones like Rhodiola seem to mess me up rather than help me adapt lol).Your adaptogen is my disruptogen, etc.
You have to do experiments. Reading labels only takes you so far. Reading labels helps you form the hypothesis. Experimentation is hypothesis testing.
> That's it really these days. Oh sorry - there I go again having a bit of a ramble about myself. I don't know how I got onto that really!I think it's about time. You've been leaving out some important details. ;-)
> So the ENADA was ok but I overdid it - maybe I could still use it occasionally. It was oddly calming and energizing at the same time I seem to remember - an effect I like.
>
> LoopsCalming and energizing at the same time, and you wonder if you "could" use it "occasionally"? Hmmmm. Let me think about that.
I'm exhausted, and I hope my sense of humour is coming through. I do not mean to be rude, at all. I just am nearly stupid with fatigue. So, please, some tolerance.
You said niacinamide makes you wired, if I recall. I can't speak to the influence of alcohol on that. But, the reason I asked about Enada is what Enada is. Nicotinamide is an older trivial name for what we tend now to call niacinamide. And, Enada is nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide. The H means reduced. Don't worry about that bit. The rest is what matters.
If your individual niacin equilibrium is such that it shunts niacinamide towards niacin instead of towards NADH, then your mitochondria are going to suffer. If your mitochondria suffer, you suffer. It's just that simple.
My personal recommendation to you, other than all the others I've been making, is to focus on getting a solid source of alphalipoic acid into you. You already feel the vitamin C and E. You will feel the alphalipoic acid, also.
You may be very sensitive to NADH. I found that I tolerated it much better with betaine. You may recall I also suggested that substance (as the hydrochloride) to you for your hypochlorhydria (low stomach acid). That betaine will go on to help with this other thing. The B12 also fits into this other, mitochondrial thing. It will help your stomach, and your energy.
I really don't think you can start to feel better, though, until your ethanol goes to zero. Or something close to it. If you crave the alcohol, get some taurine.
You're very much like me, biochemically. That's what I think. I feel very familiar with this pattern.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 1, 2006, at 12:13:33
In reply to Re: Enada, posted by LOOPS on June 1, 2006, at 9:06:12
I just found this quotation on wiki: "Because of the liver stress associated with heavy alcohol consumption, regular drinkers and alcoholics may experience antabuse-like reactions with pharmacologic levels of niacin."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niacin
Not referenced, unfortunately.
If so, then very little niacinamide (perhaps less than 50 mg), taken as a pure substance, would be sufficient to invoke that outcome.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 1, 2006, at 16:55:26
In reply to Re: Enada P.S. » LOOPS, posted by Larry Hoover on June 1, 2006, at 12:13:33
> If so, then very little niacinamide (perhaps less than 50 mg), taken as a pure substance, would be sufficient to invoke that outcome.
>
> LarCould conceivably be sufficient....
I shouldn't post right now.
Lar
Posted by LOOPS on June 4, 2006, at 8:28:59
In reply to Re: Enada P.S. » Larry Hoover, posted by Larry Hoover on June 1, 2006, at 16:55:26
Don't worry Larry - I get the message.
Taurine is an odd one for me - it is quite energizing if I take it a couple of doses in a row and affects my sleep.
Right now I'm sleeping 10 hours a night which is unheard of for me - I'm not complaining. I'm pretty sure this is a result of finally balancing the magnesium with sufficient calcium and not too much. I'm still waiting for the hydrochloride to arrive for me but the heart palpitations have gone away. I'm still taking the cod liver oil because it's Winter here and I always seem to get more down in Winter.
My Berocca plus tabs have 50mg niacinamide in them and I do take them.
About the low-carb thing - well, I agree with the moderation thing, but I have a very long history of bulimia and carb restriction helps - to give you an idea, I haven't purged ONCE in the whole 9 months I've been doing this. That is a record for me and I no longer have the urge to do it either. Anything that has that kind of effect is definitely worth doing for me.
Oh yeah - the other reason is my eczema has been very gradually clearing up. There was one time that I was covered in it, and now I only have a few patches which are going away.
Well I'm off to eat eggs!
Thanks Larry
Loops
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 4, 2006, at 18:06:50
In reply to Re: Enada P.S., posted by LOOPS on June 4, 2006, at 8:28:59
> Don't worry Larry - I get the message.
I'm sorry for being so blunt.
Lar
Posted by LOOPS on June 5, 2006, at 16:49:58
In reply to Re: Enada P.S. » LOOPS, posted by Larry Hoover on June 4, 2006, at 18:06:50
blunt and to the point is always better.
Loops
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 6, 2006, at 6:35:16
In reply to Re: Enada P.S., posted by LOOPS on June 5, 2006, at 16:49:58
> blunt and to the point is always better.
>
> LoopsThat's kind of you, but I sometimes forget we're speaking in front of an audience. I just tune in to someone, the same way I would in person.
I shall try to "go to babblemail" more often, in general.
Lar
Posted by LOOPS on June 7, 2006, at 8:25:17
In reply to Re: Enada P.S. » LOOPS, posted by Larry Hoover on June 6, 2006, at 6:35:16
I don't mind Larry - really. Maybe people with similar problems to me can pick up a thing or two from reading your suggestions - that's what I do anyway with other topics.
Oh - something very good happened recently. I have a friend here who is on x y and z for asthma and I mentioned magnesium. He started taking quite a small amount (magnesium malate - 150mg - he takes 2 I think) and 2 weeks later was raving about this stuff to me on the phone. He says all his allergies have cleared up and he's sleeping like a log. Obviously he still takes his meds (I think he's scared not to just in case he lands up in the hospital again) so it is hard to say if the Mg is helping with the asthma - though I think he doesn't need his top-up salbutamol so much now.
ANd he was a real skeptic - so no placebo effect there!
Loops
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 7, 2006, at 9:56:11
In reply to Re: Enada P.S., posted by LOOPS on June 7, 2006, at 8:25:17
> I don't mind Larry - really. Maybe people with similar problems to me can pick up a thing or two from reading your suggestions - that's what I do anyway with other topics.
'Kay. Now I know how you feel about it. Before, I had been assuming things that were not in my realm.
> Oh - something very good happened recently. I have a friend here who is on x y and z for asthma and I mentioned magnesium. He started taking quite a small amount (magnesium malate - 150mg - he takes 2 I think) and 2 weeks later was raving about this stuff to me on the phone. He says all his allergies have cleared up and he's sleeping like a log. Obviously he still takes his meds (I think he's scared not to just in case he lands up in the hospital again) so it is hard to say if the Mg is helping with the asthma - though I think he doesn't need his top-up salbutamol so much now.
YaY! Oh, yay! <dancing around in little circles, in my head>
It is that simple, for some people. I hope you can impress upon him two things more. One, he needs to treat himself this new way, forever. Two, his response to magnesium probably indicates that he can treat acute allergenic response with niacinamide. I'm talking a hay fever person getting exposed to huge amounts of pollen, not anaphylaxis. Just to be clear what I mean. 500-2000 mg niacinamide, works like a charm for me.
> ANd he was a real skeptic - so no placebo effect there!
>
> LoopsThank you for telling of this.
One of the most common heart valve disorders today is mitral valve prolapse. It can be treated, and reversed, with magnesium. Now, of course, there are many causes of this syndrome, and only those with a magnesium-related cause will respond to the intervention. But I would guess that's about 1/3 to 1/2 of all cases. And, in Western medicine, magnesium challenge is not used.
You can't measure magnesium concentration in the human body in any meaningful way at all. It is changing all the time. It is never the same for one second.
Whenever symptoms suggest magnesium deficiency, the only test is actually supplementing with magnesium. That's the only one we've got. And it's inferential. If using magnesium correlates strongly with remission of the symptoms of a cluster called latent tetany, then it is presumptive of magnesium deficiency.
Lar
Posted by Andrew P. on January 12, 2009, at 16:37:41
In reply to Has anyone used magnesium citrate solution?, posted by yesac on April 11, 2006, at 13:17:16
> I've been reading up on magnesium, and it seems like it's at least worth a try and could possibly help with my various mental health symptoms... although I am a bit cautious and wary of what I've found on the Internet, especially George Eby's site and accompanying article. It just sounds like it's a little too good to be true.
>
> But anyways, I'm still thinking of giving it a try, but it looks like it's hard to find magnesium supplements that contain anything but magnesium oxide. Magnesium citrate solution is a laxative-- but I saw that it contains 290mgs of magnesium per ounce, so it seems like it could possibly be a good source of magnesium. Also, it's very cheap. Has anyone used this? Where have people been able to find good magnesium supplements?Don't mess with it. I've used magnesium citrate, but only as a laxative in preparation for colonoscopy. That's its primary use. You're much better off getting your magnesium from leafy greens, the greener the better, such as spinach and broccoli. Magnesium is an essential component of chlorophyll molecules, the stuff that makes leaves green, and without which plants couldn't function. When you get your minerals from fruits and vegetables, they are in a form that is maximally absorbed by the body and cause the fewest side effects.
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 12, 2009, at 20:23:29
In reply to Re: Has anyone used magnesium citrate solution? » yesac, posted by Andrew P. on January 12, 2009, at 16:37:41
A dirt-cheap and fully bioavailable magnesium source is epsom salt solution. One level teaspoon of epsom salt contains 1.32 grams of magnesium. If you, for example, dissolved one teaspoon of this salt in 13.2 ounces of water, then each ounce of solution would contain 100 mg of magnesium. As there are two tablespoons per ounce, then each tablespoon would contain 50 mg.
Lar
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