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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by john berk on April 6, 2006, at 22:10:23
http://sulcus.berkeley.edu/mcb/165_001/papers/manuscripts/_968.html Seems running 40-80 minutes increases endorphins and feelings of well-being for up to 48 hours. [warning, long article]..john
Posted by spriggy on April 7, 2006, at 1:28:05
In reply to Exercise as mild AD, posted by john berk on April 6, 2006, at 22:10:23
GOODY.
I love to run; I've just been so sick and weak that I am just now getting back up to a mile.
I'll try to go 40 minutes and see if this helps me.
Posted by RobertDavid on April 7, 2006, at 1:56:44
In reply to Re: Exercise as mild AD, posted by spriggy on April 7, 2006, at 1:28:05
My doctor once told me if you could bottle excercise and put it in pill form it would not only be a best seller but it would work better than most medicines out there.
I always feel more upbeat when I'm excercising regularly (no matter how hard it is to make myself do it).
Posted by john berk on April 7, 2006, at 7:58:47
In reply to Re: Exercise as mild AD, posted by RobertDavid on April 7, 2006, at 1:56:44
It's odd, i was a distance runner for 12 years, until i started prozac, [which gave me energy at first] then gradually my running has diminished to once or twice a week if i'm lucky.[at under 40 minutes]my therapist said this was a sign i was no longer compulsive about exercise, i find that laughable, i was just too tired from meds, lol.
now i have weaned off prozac, [3 weeks] and i have a renewed interest in getting back to running, [4 miles the other night] i think my running was keeping me in a much better frame of mind over the years. when your back on track Spriggy , maybe you, me and robert david can organize a p-babble marathon,lol. take care...john
Posted by linkadge on April 7, 2006, at 14:23:17
In reply to Re: Exercise as mild AD, posted by john berk on April 7, 2006, at 7:58:47
The thing that people don't realize about exercise is that it seems to do (biochemically) many of the things that long term antidepressant treatment does.
Exercise increases all the growth factors that have been associated with antidepressant treatment, BDNF, NGF, NT-3, GAP-43, and then some (GDNF, and others). It also regulates neurotransmitter receptors systems like 5-ht autoreceptors, and post synaptic 5-ht1a. It can downregulate HPA axis reactivity, and induce nerugenesis in several areas of the hippocampus.
There is a lot more research in support of the antidepressant effect of exercise than the average person with depression is made aware of.
Ultramarathon running is probably not recomended since it can tax the system and reverse some of the gains of exercise.
Linkadge
Posted by SLS on April 7, 2006, at 16:18:12
In reply to Re: Exercise as mild AD » john berk, posted by linkadge on April 7, 2006, at 14:23:17
> The thing that people don't realize about exercise is that it seems to do (biochemically) many of the things that long term antidepressant treatment does.
I guess it's what it doesn't do that is most important.
> Exercise increases all the growth factors that have been associated with antidepressant treatment, BDNF, NGF, NT-3, GAP-43, and then some (GDNF, and others). It also regulates neurotransmitter receptors systems like 5-ht autoreceptors, and post synaptic 5-ht1a. It can downregulate HPA axis reactivity, and induce nerugenesis in several areas of the hippocampus.
That's an impressive list. However, something must be missing, otherwise we wouldn't be here discussing this.
> There is a lot more research in support of the antidepressant effect of exercise than the average person with depression is made aware of.
It must be a conspiracy.
;-)
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on April 7, 2006, at 16:46:37
In reply to Re: Exercise as mild AD, posted by SLS on April 7, 2006, at 16:18:12
I think that if one stops exercising then it is impossible to really say where the illness may have been, had the regime been continued.
Linkadge
Posted by SLS on April 7, 2006, at 17:13:31
In reply to Re: Exercise as mild AD » SLS, posted by linkadge on April 7, 2006, at 16:46:37
> I think that if one stops exercising then it is impossible to really say where the illness may have been, had the regime been continued.
Regarding depression, I will not dispute the fact that some people receive benefit from exercise. Unfortunately, it is also a fact that some people don't.
I'm going to try going to the gym soon to do some resistance training. It is basically anaerobic. I think I have enough energy at this point to do it. I certainly don't have it when I am at my unmedicated baseline state. I expect to feel a benefit similar to that experienced by a healthy person.
- Scott
Posted by john berk on April 7, 2006, at 17:33:50
In reply to Re: Exercise as mild AD » SLS, posted by linkadge on April 7, 2006, at 16:46:37
Good Point. I have exercised in some capacity, [even fast walking] almost everyday for the last 15 years. there is definetly some compulsiveness to that i'm sure.
but my intensity levels have varied greatly in the last 3-4 years, ["prozac era"]and i can't help but wonder if sustaining a high intensity running program like i had previously would have done more for my depression and anxiety.
i'm the only one in my group of family and friends who has a "need" to run, so i understand others who find running alien, the last few years i have begun to look at runners differently, it almost seems another life-time when i pushed so hard to actually compete in 5 and 10 k races.
but i have expeirenced runners high many times, it is amazing, i just didn't realize it could be sustained, or at least endorphin levels sustained, for almost 48 hours.your right Link, ultra marathoning, or even training for a marathon, is counter-productive, in the late 80's a great runner named "Alberto Salazar" was crippled with depression, "runners burnout" has all the signs and symptoms of major depression.
but i think a happy medium of slow long distance jogging can be quite beneficial,
i have to push to get back to that. I suppose when we are at the worst points of our depression, a nice walk around the block is a marathon, i've been there at times...john
Posted by john berk on April 7, 2006, at 17:38:12
In reply to Re: Exercise as mild AD, posted by SLS on April 7, 2006, at 17:13:31
Good luck Scott,
weightlifting, while being anaerobic,
is great for self-esteem, and i have heard people say it helps with their social phobia,
i try to mix in the weights often too...john
Posted by linkadge on April 7, 2006, at 18:15:15
In reply to Re: Exercise as mild AD » SLS, posted by john berk on April 7, 2006, at 17:38:12
Please note that almost all of the literature on exercise and mood disorders seems to suggest that aerobic exercise confers the benifit.
Thats not to say that other exercing isn't good for the body, but it seems that in terms of mood disorders, the research points to vigorous aerobic exercise.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on April 7, 2006, at 21:31:43
In reply to Re: Exercise as mild AD » john berk, posted by linkadge on April 7, 2006, at 18:15:15
I had an Aerobics Dance business before that trained and taught at the ymca. I had to run a certain amt in a time limit. This became addictive to me as I felt wonderful later. Any problem I was working on in my mind I had an answer to around 20minutes after running. I got up to l3 miles in CT where i used to live in the ice and snow the first of january my all time best. And I was hot and sweaty and high as a kite. It's wonderful just remembering it. That's why this neurosurgeon irreguardless of the fact that it could lead to being paralazed I am continuing to jog not as fast but it is the best upper in the world!!!!! I know from expereience. A great expereience. I will die running. Remember Jim Fixx the runner marathon he died on the road in Vermont doing what he loved best running. His father and brother died in their thirties from heart disease. They speculate he lived over l5 years longer due to his running. I hava an autographed book from him. I ran with him in Westport, Connecticut. Love Phillipa
Posted by john berk on April 7, 2006, at 21:41:05
In reply to Re: Exercise as mild AD, posted by Phillipa on April 7, 2006, at 21:31:43
Hi Phillipa, rt. on,
i knew you ran, but i didn't know you were so dedicated, that is incredible. I used to love to run a hard 10 miler, them just sit and look at the stars, it was an amazing feeling, i ran on a track one time, [1/4 mile] for 60 laps, i never wanted to stop, it is defenitly a high.i have had shin splints at times, have you, i used to get so irratable when i was side-lined like that. it is a positive addiction, for sure!!
you ran with Jim Fixx? That is like running with the Dali lama, lol, i'm so proud of you!!!
thanks for posting, you made my night, your friend...john
Posted by Phillipa on April 7, 2006, at 23:08:27
In reply to Re: Exercise as mild AD » Phillipa, posted by john berk on April 7, 2006, at 21:41:05
John plus his autographed book RUN. And yes shin spints an extra pair of socks helps and now they have the inserts for your running shoes. love Jan
Posted by Sarah T. on April 8, 2006, at 16:48:57
In reply to Re: Exercise as mild AD, posted by SLS on April 7, 2006, at 17:13:31
Hi Scott,
For some reason that I'm still trying to figure out, I need sustained, moderately vigorous aerobic exercise in order to achieve an antidepressant effect. Of course, resistance training has numerous other benefits, but I have not found it to change my mood. I wish it would.
I know that moderate walking is an EXCELLENT exercise, but again, it seems to do little for my mood. I need to walk VERY fast or I have to run or swim to get that mood change.
Posted by Caedmon on April 8, 2006, at 17:00:17
In reply to Re: Exercise as mild AD » john berk, posted by linkadge on April 7, 2006, at 18:15:15
> Please note that almost all of the literature on exercise and mood disorders seems to suggest that aerobic exercise confers the benifit.
>
> Thats not to say that other exercing isn't good for the body, but it seems that in terms of mood disorders, the research points to vigorous aerobic exercise.That is interesting, I hadn't heard that. I can verify it from my experiences. While my powerlifting routines are definitely nice, short jogs are even better (for my mood). It's amazing, actually.
I have asthma which complicates any exercise I do, and I am just now re-starting a jogging routine (starting very slowly and with plenty of help from my inhalers). But even my baby 10 minute jogs seem to do a lot towards making me feel better.
I have always felt that yoga was a good form of exercise when one is very anergic. As I can sometimes be. It can seem absolutely daunting to try to exercise if I'm really down in the dumps, but I can usually still try doing one or two yoga poses, and that helps.
- C
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