Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 382574

Shown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

CHEMIST or anyone-- the art of taking adderall

Posted by CareBear04 on August 26, 2004, at 13:07:53

hi--
i was just prescribed adderall (generic made by barr), and i was wondering how best to take it. before this, i was on provigil (200 qd) and strattera (40 bid) for ADD symptoms and constant tiredness. the provigil worked for a little while, but then it seemed to poop out.

first, what dose of adderall would be equivalent to the strattera/provigil combo? my dr gave me 5mg tablets and said that i can take up to 15mg twice a day, but she is worried about possible tremor. i took 5mg almost an hour ago, but i don't feel anything. how patient should i be before ramping up the dose?

second, what is the best way to take adderall? i've read some people say to take it an hour before eating on an empty stomach, while others say to take it after a meal. how long does adderall take to kick in?

finally, i'm also on eskalith cr 1350mg. it's written that lithium may decrease the stimulant and anorexic effects of adderall. i really really want adderall to work (i've been so tired and inattentive all the time), and i'm thinking of stopping the lithium for awhile to see what the adderall can do. i know this isn't a good idea, so is there a way to get around the lithium/adderall interaction?

thank you all for your input! this board is great for med advice.

 

Re: CHEMIST or anyone-- the art of taking adderall

Posted by CareBear04 on August 26, 2004, at 13:12:42

In reply to CHEMIST or anyone-- the art of taking adderall, posted by CareBear04 on August 26, 2004, at 13:07:53

oh, i forgot to add that i'm also prescribed xanax 1mg four times a day, and that i take klonopin 2mg at night. i think i wake up in the morning with a bit of a klonopin hangover. i'm also prescribed propranolol 20mg four times a day, but i only take as needed because i think it makes me more tired. will these things factor into adderall effectiveness?
thanks again!

 

Re: CHEMIST or anyone-- the art of taking adderall Ľ CareBear04

Posted by chemist on August 28, 2004, at 19:57:13

In reply to Re: CHEMIST or anyone-- the art of taking adderall, posted by CareBear04 on August 26, 2004, at 13:12:42

hello there, chemist here...apologies for not investigating your post, i have had a distraction the past few days...i am far from the oracle here, and i will do my best to address your query, and note that you might repost with a tagline for ALL in the meantime, as there are many folks in the know......all the best, chemist


> oh, i forgot to add that i'm also prescribed xanax 1mg four times a day, and that i take klonopin 2mg at night. i think i wake up in the morning with a bit of a klonopin hangover. i'm also prescribed propranolol 20mg four times a day, but i only take as needed because i think it makes me more tired. will these things factor into adderall effectiveness?
> thanks again!

 

Re: CHEMIST or anyone-- the art of taking adderall

Posted by mindreseacher on August 28, 2004, at 22:12:03

In reply to CHEMIST or anyone-- the art of taking adderall, posted by CareBear04 on August 26, 2004, at 13:07:53

Hi, I will give you some opinons of mine about adderall and amphetamines. Iv been researching this subject for about 2 weeks now, spending 3 hrs a day. WHy? Well take your time and read this , the information I will provide is from what i have researched, esp from 3 beers effect, who was a former Psychobabbler who was great with this topic. I must have downloaded 100 of his posts.

For one, Adderall, is a mix of 4 different amphetamine salts. 1/4 of adderall is dextroamphetamine. The other one is (d,l) amphetamine sulfate, known as benzadrine. The other isomers im not to sure of but i know for a fact these 2, D-amphetamine and D-l isomoer(benzadrine) are very important parts of adderall.
The Dextroamphetamine, is dexedrine. So 1/4 of adderall is dexedrine. This causes the most mental stimulation and least peripheral stimulation such as (Raised H.R. , Blood Pressure, Anxiety). Benzadrine, use to be marketed as a weight loss drug, and was abused back in the day. So it was taken off the market.

Ok, Iv been taking adderall 30mg 3x daily for about 1 month. THis is the absolute max dose. I have become tolerant to this dose! I could have taken more if i wanted, but then id be really abusing it, heading toward addiction. But, adderall is very potent. But for me, It made me feel motivated, My ADD was eliminated, I could sit and read or write for hours. I felt like doing things , esp things that were boring. It made me feel like a new man.
Let me emphisize, it did NOT make me high. I have a past drug history of abusing GHB and Opiates. And this drug does not make me high like those. It actually helps with decreasing cravings for these illicid drugs. I used opiates mainly for depression, social phobia, and motivation.
Well adderall, "replaced this" in a way. My doctor told me that many drug abusers suffer from ADD, and use because of this problem. So adderall had a very positive impact for me.
Well, up until 4 days ago, i had to take a break. I did not feel adderall any more. It still was working for my add, but i could tell if i missed a dose, or the blood levels decreases, id become, slightly depressed, dysphoric, non motivated, etc. So i told my self, i better stop or ill end up taking more and more. (note: Iv been on adderall for 4 months, starting with 20mg 2x daily.)

Adderall(amphetamines) and dexadrine(dextroamphetamien) both release stored dopamine, via the nucleus accumbens , or reward center in the brain. Also, to an extent, releases norepinephrine. Ritalin, blocks the reptake of dopamine, like SSRI's do with seratonin. Ritalin, and cocaine share similar biochemical properties.
Adderall is more like dexedrine than Ritalin. But from what i gathered, Dexedrine causes the most mental stimulation and least peripheral stimulation. Adderall, causes a bit more anxiety. But, in my opinion, at a dose of 30mg, i also take .5mg of KLonopin, to eliminate any anxiety from the amphetamine. 1mg or higher, will just block the effects. Some people may need less, some may need more. Everyone differs.
You state you have xanax. So i would start at a dose of .5mg and see how you feel, or what your doctor advised you to do. I suffer from social phobia, depression, ADD, and Opiate addiction, and for the first time in my life, after trying so many drugs, alternative meds, etc, Adderall, klonopin , lexapro have helped me the most.

Now, provigil is sorta like nootropic drugs? Im looking into these "smart drugs". I may try some of them, some of them, seem or claim to be very usefull in depression, social anxiety, ADD. But i would not mix them with perscription meds.

As I told you before, iv been off adderall for 4 days, let me change that, to 3 days. Up until that day, i was very very nervous in stopping adderall. Luckily, i have (20) casules of Ritalin La 30mg's. Even taking Ritalin 2x daily, with some caffiene, is still CANNOT function properly. I feel very unmotivated, tired, Dysphoric, Etc. I thought Ritalin would help me more than how i feel now. And Ritalin can be very powerful to some. Well, it must be that my body does not respond to ritalin, because i could tell a huge difference.
I was going to just take a week to 10 days of , and take nothing, but there is no way i could have done this. I could imagine how i would feel, without anything. I probably would be sleeping for 5 days. Then have no energy for 5 more. I cant afford to lay in bed. And taking ephedrine, which is amphetamine like, just depeletes more dopamine, and i will not profit much when i start adderall again. At least with ritalin, it acts different on dopamine and NE than amphetamines. So, it basically is keeping me slightly above water, so im not "withdrawling" from adderall, and experiencing terrible dysphoria and what not.

I do give credit to chemist, he seems to know alot. I try and read , as much as i can, but maily I reseach natrual or supplements due to the fact Im in the supplement business. But its good to know about drugs, due to interaction with supplements. There are alot of smart people on this board. I learn 10x more on this board than i do from any doctor. Without spending 100-200 dollars for 5 minutesLOL

Take my information as you may, but everyone responds different in relation to drugs. So just because I take high doses, doesnt mean you need this much or you wont respond to it or you will need or will not need xanax . But you may just experience some effects that another person does, and thenyou can relate to them.

Another question i have for anyone who is familiar with amphetamines. As i stated, I was on such a high dose of adderall , 3x daily. Now im taking Ritalin 30mg 2x daily. What is your opinion on doing this. I needed a break from adderall, and ritalin is just for elimanting any withdrawls, but will i still get some of my tolerance back from adderall when i restart it , say in one week from now? Is one week to 10 days enought of a break? I only have about 7 days of ritalin left. THen, I would have to take ephedrine or just cold turkey it, becauase i dont get a refill until sept 6th.

Thank you
Mind Reseach.

 

Re: mind researcher, how is adderall coming along

Posted by mmcconathy on August 29, 2004, at 23:28:18

In reply to Re: CHEMIST or anyone-- the art of taking adderall, posted by mindreseacher on August 28, 2004, at 22:12:03

I read your massive giant post, you seem to know alot about adderall and amphetamines just like i do. My most intresting med right now is Desoxyn, methamphetamine. I've taken it, its a little diffrent from the reg amp. There again is less side effects, it feels smoother, but more stronger in mental stimulation, since its more aggressive than plain amphetamime.

But anyways, tell me how adderall helps you, i've never done opiates, just stimualts, legal and illegal. I prefer stimulation.

Also carebare, i was the one that adviced you that Lithium may decrease the effectiveness of adderall, im not 100% sure but im pretty sure it would weaken its effects, because rerember it stablizes your neurotransmitters to normal, so it may pull back your dopamine levels, which decrease the effect.

 

Re: CHEMIST or anyone-- the art of taking adderall

Posted by Cressida on August 30, 2004, at 21:33:16

In reply to Re: CHEMIST or anyone-- the art of taking adderall, posted by mindreseacher on August 28, 2004, at 22:12:03

You wrote, "For one, Adderall, is a mix of 4 different amphetamine salts. 1/4 of adderall is dextroamphetamine. The other one is (d,l) amphetamine sulfate, known as benzadrine"

Simply to prevent the possiblity of confusion, Adderall is 50% dextroamphetamine and 50% racemic amphetamine. Racemic amphetamine contains (d,l) amphetamine in a 50/50 ratio, which means that Adderall is composed of 3/4 dextroamphetamine and 1/4 levamphetamine. Anyone, please correct me if I'm wrong.

You also wrote, "Benzadrine, use to be marketed as a weight loss drug, and was abused back in the day"

The mixture of amphetamine salts used in Adderall was also marketed as a drug to promote weight-loss (before it was named Adderall).

Cheers!

 

Re: mind researcher, how is adderall coming along

Posted by mindreseacher on August 31, 2004, at 4:09:35

In reply to Re: mind researcher, how is adderall coming along, posted by mmcconathy on August 29, 2004, at 23:28:18

Hi chemist,
wow, meth, or i belive its called dysoxin, from what i read on the psychopham list, its like a triple wammy drug. It both blocks the reuptake of dopamine and norephinephrine, it releases both Dopamine and norepinephrine, and it releases Seratonin. I can see why meth is probably in the top 3 most addictive drugs IMO. Heroin, Meth and alcohol. (besides nicoteen)
In my case, im 31 yrs old. I began drinking alcohol at age 18, threw 29. I really cannot say i was an alcoholic, but to an extent, i did like my beer, and never really had a problem with it.
Now, when i started using GHB, that was it. I went from doing a few caps a night to 24-7 a day use for 3-4 yrs, costs me alot. I mean alot. I wont get into it. But, to this day, there is not drug that increases your mood in 20 minutes to total happyness feeling , not even oxy or dope. But there different, in that dope or oxy gives you a total body warm feeling along with a mood boost. GHB is more just mental, social drug. I could talk to anyone, blab about nonsence, dance for hrs, etc. But because of the dose response curve, the next small cap,knocks you out cold. I must have fell out 1000 times.! I wont go any further.

Now, at age 30, i began opiates, abusing them, iv used vicodin in the past, but only speratically. But once some guy gave me a huge load of oxys, i was off to the races. Within 1 month, i was using 5 oxy 40s a day. Nasally.

So, i got on my suboxone , which is like a methadone alternative, and keeps withdrawls and cravings down, and you dont get high, unless your totally opiate nieve you may get a buzz.

Then, 4 months ago, i was FINALLY diagnosed ADD. Now i was going to a p-doc for 2 yrs and he never picked up on it, and he was totally against giving drug addicted persons any type of mind altering drug, not even xanax. Nothing worked. ZOloft, kept me from being depressed, thats all. I still used, and craved opiates or ghb.

Now finally , the adderall. Adderall, for me, makes me more motivated for one. I "feel" like doing things normally i would not do or have no interest in. Now im able to do my research online for hrs at a time, without loosing interest in 30 minutes, or my mind wandering and laying down to sleep. Next, adderall makes boring tasks, sorta not boring. It keeps me from getting aggrevated say from doing work around the house. I concentrate more, it lessens my cravings for opiate drugs and alcohol.
I do not have hyperactive or ADHD. I believe i have TYPE 2 ADD, which is lack of motivation, boredom with life, sluggishness, shyness, sleeping alot, lack of concentration and day dreaming.
Now, its been 4 days off adderall, and i could still feel not the way i did on it. ANd im taking 30mg of ritalin 2x daily , plus 2 coffees a day. But im able to function. Now My appt for my doc is next tuesday, and i know i wont have enought ritalin for the weekend, so i may just cold turkey it for 2 days, just to give my body a break. IF i get too tired or fatigued , i can always pop an ephedrine pill , one or 2 wont hurt, its when you take it constantly, it depletes your dopamine severely. And it has no add qualities, except maybe motivation.
I was up to 30mg of adderall 2x daily. Im going to ask my doctor to add another 20mg at least, because, the dose of 30mg last for 5 hrs, then fades, so if i take it, even every 6 hrs, thats a total of 12 hrs of the drug acting in the brain. Now after that, there is still 8 hrs, (for me) left. So, that 3rd dose, is very important and needed. My insurance will not pay for adderall xr, and i have to call them to see about Dexedrine spanuals. My doc is very good in working with me, and if i explain my problem, he may ajust my dose, or switch me over. Im sure he will not write me dysoxyn, but its worth a try. I can say to him that iv been researching psychostimulants and came across a drug called dysoxin that suppose to lasts all day.,, but not mention anything about meth or such. But id much rather shoot for dexedrine spanuals. Dex, has the most mental stimulation, and least peripheral stimulation out of Adderall and Ritalin. Meth, well, I really should stay away from it, because its addictiveness.
Now that ritalin blocks the reuptake of dopamine, and NE, it act different from amphetamines, so i imagine when i start my adderall back up, i will be less tolerant. And im still researching ways to keep tolerance down.

ILL post more later. THanx
MRSCCH

 

Re: mind researcher, how is adderall coming along

Posted by katalina on August 31, 2004, at 13:05:18

In reply to Re: mind researcher, how is adderall coming along, posted by mindreseacher on August 31, 2004, at 4:09:35

Mindresearcher,

I have been reading and posting occasionally for the past few years. I found Psychobabble when I started Adderall about 2.5 years ago and always check in over here to see what's going on with others and their Adderall experiences.

ANYWAY, I just felt compelled to contribute to this thread. As I stated above, I started Adderall almost 3 years ago now and am frustrated with my "need" for it and the fact that it's not as effective as it used to be. Obviously after this length of time, it's to be expected, but I would give my right pinky at the knuckle to restore my tolerance to it.

I also take 60 mgs. of the XR version upon waking and pop another 20 mgs. of IR at noontime. For me, it's just my coffee substitute now. It's depressing to think about. I also have taken both Effexor and Lexapro in the past with the Adderall, but am now 6 months free of SSRI's, but also use klonopin 1.5/2 mgs. per day (.5 mid day and 1 - 1.5 mgs before bed). I was very happy to get off the SSRI treadmill and find myself functioning without them. I had taken Prozac for years before trying Ritalin and then Adderall.

I tried Ritalin first (w/o the Prozac - BIG mistake). I felt homicidal and miserable. Then I tried a Ritalin a year later with Prozac and experienced obsessive focusing and was able to plow through the basement and organize everything without effort. I felt very intense and focused on Ritalin, but not really "good". I then switched to Adderall after a month and it was like I had been living in a black and white movie my whole life and someone just turned on the color. For the first time in my life I felt "normal" - I could go to the grocery store and not get irritated with the lines or the people and deal with day to day activities that everyone else seems to do without more than a complaint. I used to get so angry with everything - driving, going to the bank drive thru, etc. I always knew it was irrational to feel so impatient, but I couldn't change how I felt no matter how much I cognitively tried to.

I also have an addictive personality, although it's never really escalated to anything of any magnitude. But, I don't think I've ever refused a vicodin (or any opiate for that matter) in my life and I still wouldn't. I guess the fact that I've never had them at my disposal kept me from abusing them. All I know is that I could never understand people complaining about how lousy or sick they feel on painkillers. I feel so normal on opiates, not really high (of course I've never taken 5 pills at once or anything, I'd rather make them last if I have them). I've never tried GHB, although I probably would if someone offered it to me. I'm a 33 year old married mother of two preschoolers, so the environment isn't really conducive to that sort of behavior.

ANYWAY, I'm beginning to wonder if this fragmented post is headed to a point. Oh yes, I think what I wanted to comment on was your interest in increasing your adderall dose because the two thirty mg. doses cover you for 12 hours and you need another 8 hours. Do you only sleep 4 hours a night, or did I misinterpret? I would just be cautious in telling your doc you need coverage for that length of time. Sleep deprivation is the leading cause of amphetamine psychosis, and you certainly don't want your doc to think you're staying up all night every night. BTW, I'm only prescribed 50 mgs. per day (30 XR and 20 IR), but I discontinued taking it for over a month with the hope of restoring its effectiveness. Unfortunately, that didn't really happen, and I chose to "reward" myself with a double dose for a month (not my usual self discipline with my meds - in the almost 3 years of taking it, I've never run out early from doubling up). I've just been in a real funk lately and thought I "deserved" more. Being home all summer with my two bickering children has driven me to the brink of insanity and the Adderall helps my mood most of the time. I know I'm going to regret doubling up next month when I have to return to my normal dosing schedule, but I just choose not to think about it right now. I've been taking a tsp. of Delsym daily and also take a pretty good handful of supplements like taurine and calcium/magnesium l-acetyl-carintine, grapeseed, B-complex and fish oil (although I think the fish oil was causing skin breakouts so I've eliminated it to see if it was the cause). I also take a good multi and Vitamin C with bioflavanoids at night. When I went Adderall free for a month I took Tyrosine instead and although it was no substitute, it at least gave me enough energy to get out of bed in the morning.

I also should note that I took 40 mgs. of dexedrine for a month (instead of Adderall, just to see how I felt) and it didn't provide that energy boost that Adderall does - only the concentration that I also need.

Anyway, sorry for rambling so long, I just wanted to empathize with your dilemma. It's so frustrating to lose something that you searched for your whole life. I'm not looking for that initial zing of euphoria, just that normal even-keeled feeling of being able to deal with life and all it's irritations in stride.

Be good to yourself - Katalina

 

Re: mind researcher, how is adderall coming along

Posted by mmcconathy on August 31, 2004, at 22:22:41

In reply to Re: mind researcher, how is adderall coming along, posted by katalina on August 31, 2004, at 13:05:18

Katina,

We have things in common, i found this site about adderall experiences too, and also took L-tyrosine when off adderall.

I rerember it used to make me feel good about everything i did, moeing, cleaning, working, or just thinking.

You look like you were on adderall when you typed this post, since it was soo long and detailed. I used to do the same thing in term papers.

You have tried dexedrine? i thought it was twice as potent as adderall, wierd it did not give you any energy.

I like witty personality also...........but ANYWAYS!

Later

Matt

 

Re: how is adderall coming along Ľ katalina

Posted by LeadingZero on September 1, 2004, at 18:52:45

In reply to Re: mind researcher, how is adderall coming along, posted by katalina on August 31, 2004, at 13:05:18

>
> I also take 60 mgs. of the XR version upon waking and pop another 20 mgs. of IR at noontime. For me, it's just my coffee substitute now. It's depressing to think about. I also have taken both Effexor and Lexapro in the past with the Adderall, but am now 6 months free of SSRI's, but also use klonopin 1.5/2 mgs. per day (.5 mid day and 1 - 1.5 mgs before bed). I was very happy to get off the SSRI treadmill and find myself functioning without them. I had taken Prozac for years before trying Ritalin and then Adderall.

I was taking adderall for about two years. Now I'm off of everything, as of about two weeks ago.

Adderall was extremely disappointing to me, not because it didn't work but because it worked really well and then gradually stopped working. After a time it was only making numb, tired and stupid. I recall leading meetings at work impressivly at the onset, then months later being unable to respond acceptably to questions as a simple attendee of a meeting. Dashed euphoria... what a familliar tune.

I have no history of addition to any substances, mostly because of total abstianance. I have a very addictive personality, and often end up hung over on internet computer games. Being a father of two, 31 at the time, I decided to treat my ADD and get ahold of myself.

Now I'm 33. I was tired and doing poorly at work, so I'm trying to go unmedicated. I'm giving sleep, excersize and sufficient nutrition a go.

I have a lot more energy, and I'm really happy-- though that 'humming, annoying weenie' kind of happy I suppose. Still, I keep doing embarassing things like, say, today, leaving a restauraunt without paying.

I tried ritilin just before adderall a few years ago. I might give it another whirl, but I'm afraid it's going to be another Adderall.

 

Re: mind researcher, how is adderall coming along

Posted by katalina on September 2, 2004, at 9:06:38

In reply to Re: mind researcher, how is adderall coming along, posted by mmcconathy on August 31, 2004, at 22:22:41

Hey Matt,

Thanks for responding - I don't get a chance to type a post very often as my small children will almost always find a way to prevent me from using the computer (or talking on the phone, or eating, or going to the bathroom, (any of those selfish acts) etc. w/o interruption) so I recall getting "carried away" because they were not bothering me for once. But yes, I do believe, I had taken my afternoon dose prior to typing that long winded, superfluous post, which I'm sure had a lot to do with the length, although I was probably also excited to be able to type without a helper!

Dexedrine doesn't have the L isomer half that Adderall has (I believe), which is responsible for the central nervous portion of Adderall's effects - physically feeling more energized; but it's also more likely to cause cardio problems than Dex. My resting heart rate on Adderall is 110 - The last time I went to the gym (3 months ago - I just like having the membership tag on my keychain for $40 a month), after 10 minutes on the treadmill my heart rate was 180! Yikes! I felt fine, but talk about looking like a freak if someone were to notice. I appear to be in good shape because I'm thin and toned, but I don't have enough stamina to walk up 4 flights of stairs without Adderall (have always been like that). It's very deceiving; people equate thin with being fit. Not always the case.

ANYWAY, I appreciate wit as well - but I have definitely lost my sharps over the last few years staying home with my kids. Some days it's the bee's knees and others I could jab my eyes out with a shrimp fork. Oh well - it's a thankless job, but at least I don't have to shower if I don't feel like it!

Ciao for now, Katalina

> Katina,
>
> We have things in common, i found this site about adderall experiences too, and also took L-tyrosine when off adderall.
>
> I rerember it used to make me feel good about everything i did, moeing, cleaning, working, or just thinking.
>
> You look like you were on adderall when you typed this post, since it was soo long and detailed. I used to do the same thing in term papers.
>
> You have tried dexedrine? i thought it was twice as potent as adderall, wierd it did not give you any energy.
>
> I like witty personality also...........but ANYWAYS!
>
> Later
>
> Matt

 

Re: how is adderall coming along Ľ LeadingZero

Posted by katalina on September 2, 2004, at 9:20:54

In reply to Re: how is adderall coming along Ľ katalina, posted by LeadingZero on September 1, 2004, at 18:52:45

Leading Zero,

I'm impressed that you're giving natural sources a shot. If you don't mind sharing, are you doing anything specific, like eating a high protien diet, taking any supplements which you find helpful, etc.? I think about going that route every now and then, but then would rather surf the net for information on the newest wonder drug that will be a sure cure to my ailments (irritable, impatient, anhedonic and angry to name a few).

I have had brief periods of feeling happy in my life, but they are just that - brief and fleeting. As much as I would like to meditate, eat organic, practice yoga, etc. to keep my symptoms under control, it is just too much work (and expense). If it can be captured in a capsule and there's a hint of promise that it will cure me, and all I need to do is come up with the co-pay, then a lab monkey I will be.

Seriously though, the Adderall thing stinks. Why can't I be one of those lucky people who don't develop tolerance???? If you don't mind my asking, what kind of dose were you taking?

I'm glad to hear you're feeling good med free - maybe that saying about being as happy as you make up your mind to be, has some merit to it.

Stay well - Katalina

> >
> > I also take 60 mgs. of the XR version upon waking and pop another 20 mgs. of IR at noontime. For me, it's just my coffee substitute now. It's depressing to think about. I also have taken both Effexor and Lexapro in the past with the Adderall, but am now 6 months free of SSRI's, but also use klonopin 1.5/2 mgs. per day (.5 mid day and 1 - 1.5 mgs before bed). I was very happy to get off the SSRI treadmill and find myself functioning without them. I had taken Prozac for years before trying Ritalin and then Adderall.
>
> I was taking adderall for about two years. Now I'm off of everything, as of about two weeks ago.
>
> Adderall was extremely disappointing to me, not because it didn't work but because it worked really well and then gradually stopped working. After a time it was only making numb, tired and stupid. I recall leading meetings at work impressivly at the onset, then months later being unable to respond acceptably to questions as a simple attendee of a meeting. Dashed euphoria... what a familliar tune.
>
> I have no history of addition to any substances, mostly because of total abstianance. I have a very addictive personality, and often end up hung over on internet computer games. Being a father of two, 31 at the time, I decided to treat my ADD and get ahold of myself.
>
> Now I'm 33. I was tired and doing poorly at work, so I'm trying to go unmedicated. I'm giving sleep, excersize and sufficient nutrition a go.
>
> I have a lot more energy, and I'm really happy-- though that 'humming, annoying weenie' kind of happy I suppose. Still, I keep doing embarassing things like, say, today, leaving a restauraunt without paying.
>
> I tried ritilin just before adderall a few years ago. I might give it another whirl, but I'm afraid it's going to be another Adderall.

 

Re: how is adderall coming along Ľ katalina

Posted by LeadingZero on September 2, 2004, at 20:04:22

In reply to Re: how is adderall coming along Ľ LeadingZero, posted by katalina on September 2, 2004, at 9:20:54

> I'm impressed that you're giving natural sources a shot. If you don't mind sharing, are you doing anything specific, like eating a high protien diet, taking any supplements which you find helpful, etc.? I think about going that route every now and then, but then would rather surf the net for information on the newest wonder drug that will be a sure cure to my ailments (irritable, impatient, anhedonic and angry to name a few).

OkayÖ you asked for it. There are sure going to be compatability problems due to our different backgrounds and the subtle differences in aftertaste of our otherwise like-flavored brains. Also, there are definitely people on this board who need medications to function. I may ultimately find that I'm one of them.

First off, I didnít actually expect to treat my ADD with natural sources, but rather be better off than when drugged and stressed into subhumanity. Iím fortunate enough to be in a field manned by the psychiatric disorder hall of fameó software/electrical engineering. I guess to make smart people nature dabbles on the lunatic fringe, because all of my four bosses so far have had various problems worse than I, but three of the four were oblivious or in vehement, angry denial of it. Erratic behaviour is manly here.

Mostly, I was hoping to return to what got me through school, working to pay my way, with a kid. I honestly donít know what that is. Perhaps it was what many ADD people seem to have, that is the ability to rise to any occasion given enough stress, stimulation, and pent up anger accumulated from the repeated social humiliation of failure. Also my wife kicking my butt.

So, to actually answer your question: At the times in my life that I was most productive and happy, and what Iím going to try again, it seems that was:

1. walking/running a lot
2. busy doing something that was important to me
3. not doing a lot of TV or computer recreation (these would cause me to lose sleep, and also have been shown to temporarily raise dopamine levels. I think I was getting rebound without taking any drug. I would also get migranes )
4. this is cheesy, but: singing/vocalizing a lot and/or laughing a lot. I donít know, it keeps me happy. It also gives me nice regular breathing. I stop when other people are around, just so I donít get a rep.

Some other new things that Iíve been dabbling in that seemed to help even when I was on meds, that I plan to keep:

1. Seeing a good psychologist / marriage counselor. Good is the operative word, and it takes while to find one. A bad one is worse than none. Get referrals from smart people, and try out a few.
2. Finding out what Iím intolerant to and eliminating it. Get this: Iím allergic to MSG, wheat, and corn. Especially corn. Thatís pretty much every prepared food. No wonder I always hated food, was itchy, congested, constipated and farting. Now Iím not. Itís a big deal. Iím also am light sensitive. I got some Irlen filters (colored glasses), and now I can read better and donít get migraines.
3. Power Yoga. Two sun salutation Aís would clear up my adderall-induced brainfry. I think itís all the oxygen-rich blood that downward dog pushes into your lowered head. Also, after a full 1.5hr class, I fell almost normal.
4. Lots of sleep. I used to sleep ~6 hrs a night. Now I shoot for 9. Iím sharper and happier.
5. Finding humor whenever possible, even at the risk of being inappropriate. Having kids makes this easy, since they actually laugh at my jokes. ADHD people can often do humor really well, and are much less impressive when earnest.
6. Juvenon (www.juvenon.com). Iím not sure if this helps ADD, but it seems to make me more exuberant and helps me to sleep at night. Iíll let you sift through all the propaganda and decide for yourself. I started on it after hearing a lecture on rat studies at UC Berkley by Dr. Bruce Ames. There is actually some real science behind the crass commercialism.
7. Fish oil and a multivitamin. Again, Iím not sure how much it specifically treats ADD, but your brain really needs that stuff, and itís cheap. Thereís some science here too.
8. getting cheesy again, but: acting happy and excited when Iím not. Itís amusing, and Iíve found it actually makes me happy and excited, within sane boundaries. Also, smiling as hard as possible, manically, seems to do something brain-wiseÖ uh, when Iím alone. It can also get the laughing going.

> I have had brief periods of feeling happy in my life, but they are just that - brief and fleeting. As much as I would like to meditate, eat organic, practice yoga, etc. to keep my symptoms under control, it is just too much work (and expense). If it can be captured in a capsule and there's a hint of promise that it will cure me, and all I need to do is come up with the co-pay, then a lab monkey I will be.

Yeah, Iím thinking of starting up a minimal does of ritilin with all this, just to avoid embarrassment. Still, I think Iím ultimately more productive with screaming ADD-- I just make an ass of myself a lot.

>
> Seriously though, the Adderall thing stinks. Why can't I be one of those lucky people who don't develop tolerance???? If you don't mind my asking, what kind of dose were you taking?

I was taking 20mg twice per day when it was the worst, but I was also really stressed and not taking care of my body. At the same time, I got politically raped at work and all my innovations and work availed me nothing. Iím slightly dysthymic, but with all this I became depressed. I started on Zoloft, and that helped in some ways, but sometimes I would become rather emotionally numb, which scared the hell out of my wife. I got off of that to. Later, I tried Straterra. I made me sleeply a lot and gave me kick ass dreams, which would be useful if I were a professional dreamer, but Motorola had the audacity to require me to show up to work and focus on something now and then, which it didnít help me with at all. I gave it six months to work, then gave it up.

> I'm glad to hear you're feeling good med free - maybe that saying about being as happy as you make up your mind to be, has some merit to it.

Itís got its limits, but itís definitely a factor. Weíre irrational and chemical creatures. If we could just make our minds up to be happy, by God we would. I need help to sort it out correctly, thatís why the psychologist is so important. Iím also still seeing the psychiatrist, even if I can get by without drugs.

Good luck,

 

Re: how is adderall coming along

Posted by CareBear04 on September 2, 2004, at 22:53:54

In reply to Re: how is adderall coming along ?katalina, posted by LeadingZero on September 2, 2004, at 20:04:22

hey everyone,
thanks so much for posting your responses to adderall. i was out of town for a week and i'm just now reading people's posts. i've been on adderall for a week now, and it's literally the best med i've been on (of about 25 in the past year and a half). i feel more focused, more energetic, and generally happier. for me, adderall is dozens of times more helpful than strattera + provigil, which didn't help me noticably. with provigil, i had bad tremors for awhile, and surprisingly, i haven't had any such problems with adderall. i do feel the need to do everything faster, though, which is both good and bad. i get irritated waiting while people stand in the middle of the escalator, and i have even less patience with lines than usual. i'm prescribed 1350mg of lithium, but i stopped taking it last weekend because it was true that it was inhibiting the effects of adderall. the same thing happened when i took trazodone one night and felt the two drugs cancelling each other out the next day. without the lithium, it takes 15mg twice a day to feel awake and alert. i told this to my doctor, and she said to restart the lithium and see how much adderall i need to get the same results. she says that the maximum dose is 60mg/day for narcolepsy, but it sounds like a lot of people go over that limit. i don't know if size makes a difference, but i'm not very big (around 100lbs), so i feel like something might be wrong if i require nearly the maximum dose.

regarding generic vs. brand name-- what is the consensus? is there a difference in efficacy that is worth the huge price difference? my copay for 15mg of brand name adderall a day was $75, while i paid only $10 for generic. and how about adderall xr? does it work as well as immediate release?

lastly, sleep-- even if i take my last dose before 2 or 3, i still have a really hard time sleeping. i can feel the energy and appetite suppressing effects wearing off around 7 or 8, but for some reason, i still have insomnia. before trying stimulants, i had already gone through all the different sleep medications and all combinations except for barbiturates, which my dr. didn't want to prescribe. right now, i'm supposed to take 2mg of klonopin for sleep, which i've been mixing with alcohol because nothing else will put me out. do these sleeping problems pass?

thanks all for your great knowledge and advice! i'm just starting again with a new dr and don't have a reliable pharmacist or anyone else to ask, so i really appreciate all your advice!
cb

 

Re: how is adderall coming along Ľ CareBear04

Posted by LeadingZero on September 3, 2004, at 11:09:03

In reply to Re: how is adderall coming along, posted by CareBear04 on September 2, 2004, at 22:53:54

I'm 6' 160lbs, and 20mg 2x/day was about where it started to be too much. My experience is that the raw form is better than the sustained release versions. I hear that the generic isn't very good, but I never tried it. If you want quick, clean action, take it on an empty stomach. If you want smoother, drawn out action, take it with food. Don't ever take it with citrus juices, because studies have shown that it reduces the effects. I'm alergic to wheat and corn, so I tend toward a high protien diet. I'm told that is good for ADD anyway.

Avoid having a really fatty breakfast with it-- I read a study report on efficacy of concerta vs. adderall while fasting vs w/ a fatty breakfast on a concerta tissue box at my pdoc office. I haven't found this study anywhere else. It didn't convice me to switch back to concerta, but rather informed me that fatty breakfasts are a problem for ADD meds.

I do hope that the efficacy doesn't decrease with time on you. I agree that adderall was the best med that I've been on, it's just that it pooped out after a while.

I have another thread about poop-out, and people say that a good way to avoid/delay it is to use the minimum dose that works for you and take frequent vacations, where you will want to sleep more than ususal. For me 7.5mg 1x/day is enough to feel some benefit and not feel much rebound or accumulated effect build up. This did bring back some of the adderall magic for me.

The best way to get sleep for me was to walk/run for an hour some time durring the day. I'm very busy, but an hour lost to running is better than two lost to insomnia.

Of course, you could also look at my last posting on this thread wherein I sprayed you all down with verbal diareeah (sp). After 2.5 years on meds, mostly Adderall, I'm giving the native state another shot. Hopefully my next post won't show up six months from now, starting "I just got out of prison..."

Best of luck.


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