![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 11 to 35 of 35. Go back in thread:
Posted by stjames on August 3, 2001, at 1:10:14
In reply to I'm so sick of living like this, posted by Else on August 2, 2001, at 22:59:44
If whatever AD is causing "numbing" then clearly it is not the right one for you. This is a not so uncommon problem. I had to try several AD's till I found the ones that did not do this.
james
Posted by Anna Laura on August 3, 2001, at 1:12:10
In reply to Re: I'm so sick of living like this, posted by Else on August 2, 2001, at 23:51:27
> > > It's simple really. On antidepressants or anticonvulsants I don't fully realize how badly my life sucks. So I just deal with it in a relatively effective, albeit deeply bored way. When I am off, the horror strikes me. Right now I am on Wellbutrin but it's not a normal AD. Anyway. I don't want to numb myself to make my horrible life seem OK. So now what? When I am off, like right now, everything seems so hopeless. I don't want to be a zombie but I don't want to kill myself either. I don't know what to do. I just want to be myself and feel both alive and happy at the same time. Is this even possible? I'm so depressed. I feel like I did last year before I tried to kill myself. But things are OK. I get along great with my co-workers. I think I could even be friends with them and it is so hard for me to make friends but I can't do it. I'm too scared to be intrusive or something like that. It's all so f****d-up. Why do I bother? I just want to be happy but it's so hard.
> >
> > "Right now I am on Wellbutrin but it's not a normal AD"
>
> What is a normal AD?
>
> A normal AD is one that kills any drive you might have like SSRIs or TCAs. ADs that make you not care in any way. Wellbutrin is not like that in my opinion. It doesn't generate apathy.
>
> > If you list what you've tried, I'm sure that you'll get many suggestions, a few of which might actually help.
>
> WHAT I HAVE TRIED:
>
> Prozac
> Xanax
> Zoloft
> Klonopin
> Effexor
> Desyrel
> Wellbutrin
> Parnate
> Valium
> Lectopam
> Serax
> Depakote
> Neurontin
> Ativan
> Elavil
> Cocaine
> Methamphetamine
> Alcohol
> Ecstasy
>
> I mention illegal drugs because I consider this self medicating. I would say Zoloft, Effexor, Depakote and Neurontin were pretty useless. Benzos have helped but not solved the problem in any way.Parnate was great but of course my doc says I can't have it. Elavil is a bit different, I used it in a suicide attempt and felt great afterwards (perhaps hypomanic, I don't know). I don't know what its *normal* effect is. Cocaine worked short-lived miracles (and the price to pay was very high). Speed was OK. Ecstasy did nothing. I get panic attacks on pot. I hate marijuana.
> > This isn't the time to quite. Lots of advances are on their way. Do one day at a time.
> >
> > jojo
>
> I don't want to quit but I feel like I've lost all my youth to this... mess. I'm 26 now. My teenage years were disastrous. I don't want to go on another 25 years like this. I am not afraid of death at all but I don't wan't it to come to that. Anyway right now I am taking Wellbutrin 150mg bid, Neurontin 300mg tid and Klonopin 0.5mg qid. I just wish I didn't have to depend on a doctor who depends on government laws which depend on religion or I don't know what. I am screwed anyway. Society says hapiness is a matter of willpower, remember? I'm trying as hard as I can.
Else, why don't you get another pdoc who's willing to prescribe Parnate ? You said it worked, right? If i knew that something worked for me, i'd do anything do get it. Go for it!Wishing you well
Anna Laura
Posted by Gracie2 on August 3, 2001, at 1:56:16
In reply to Re: I'm so sick of living like this, posted by Anna Laura on August 3, 2001, at 1:12:10
You know what our problem is? We lack purpose.
We're so tied up in our own problems...a bane in my own life is that God gave me great artistic talent, and I don't use it because I don't want to deal with people.
I live in a city with a lot of underprivilaged kids. I've been thinking about volunteering my services, to paint free murals at daycare centers.
I think it would distract my crippled mind and possibly do some good. I like kids.
-Gracie
Posted by paxvox on August 3, 2001, at 9:17:39
In reply to Re: I'm so sick of living like this, posted by Jady on August 2, 2001, at 23:20:38
Now I'm just jumping here in the middle before I read the rest of the follow-up posts for you two, so I may have additions later.
Anywho......
We need to use this forum to its full extent as a sounding board and a reciprocal "help each other" tool. I read so many posts that are so similar to where I am now, or where I have been. Frankly, it scares me to read the posts when someone appears to have given up hope on life. I have been there, been to the brink, but every time I realize that is NEVER going to solve any problem, and will make my family members have to deal with my leftover horrors. If we can "talk" to each other when we are low, and we respond quickly enough, perhaps that one person who feels so alone, so lost, so without hope can be brought back off the edge. I guess there are chat rooms that are more real time, however, I feel that this board has some very intelligent and experienced posters. There is a lot of information available, but we need to develop some sort of rapid response network...maybe even phone numbers (?) to call when someone is in serious straights. We might be that ONE PERSON that can make the difference between a low point and a senseless loss of life.
Posted by paxvox on August 3, 2001, at 9:28:44
In reply to Re: I'm so sick of living like this, posted by Gracie2 on August 3, 2001, at 1:56:16
>
> ...and possibly do some good. I like kids.
> -GracieHey Gracie, I think that you have a grip on it! We can begin to feel better about ourselves when we realize we DO have a purpose in this world. Who can HONESTLY say that this world would have been a better place w/o them? (ok, maybe Hitler or Jeffery Dalmer). That is why I love the movie
"It's A Wonderful Life" we really do touch a lot of lives, even if indirectly. I KNOW FOR A FACT that there are people alive right now from things I have done. That is a start. If you can help some children, the most beautiful gift of God, to have a better life, you HAVE changed the world for the better. If doing this makes you feel worthwhile all the better I say!
Posted by Else on August 3, 2001, at 10:13:46
In reply to I'm so sick of living like this, posted by Else on August 2, 2001, at 22:59:44
Thanks to all of you for responding. I am not considering suicide or anything. I don't think I would ever try this again. A lot (relatively speaking) is going on in my life right now and when I get stressed out I get really depressed. I have to get used to work, for one thing. I haven't worked in two years.
I know I lack purpose but I am so unmotivated even when I don't feel bad. Actually, I do have a long-term goal but it seems so unattainable. Just getting a university to take me back right now would be a major step in the right direction but I have screwed up so often in the past they wont give me another chance (all universities are public, and cheap, in Canada but they don't want to pay for a student who'll drop out in the middle of a semester and cost the system thousands of dollars for nothing, and this is what I have done several times.) Everytime I tried to go back to school, I got depressed at some point, became unable to work and concentrate and just gave up.
Perhaps I should have taken some sick time. I never take sick time for depression because I don't think anyone will believe me and think I am making this up. If I had taken some sick time I wouldn't be in the mess I am in. I probably need to see a social worker or something to help me work things out. Before I always used to feel there was this "ceiling" of success and happiness I could never rise beyond. That feeling had gone away but now it's coming back because of my lousy performance at work. I just have to weather this I suppose. Thanks to all of you.
> It's simple really. On antidepressants or anticonvulsants I don't fully realize how badly my life sucks. So I just deal with it in a relatively effective, albeit deeply bored way. When I am off, the horror strikes me. Right now I am on Wellbutrin but it's not a normal AD. Anyway. I don't want to numb myself to make my horrible life seem OK. So now what? When I am off, like right now, everything seems so hopeless. I don't want to be a zombie but I don't want to kill myself either. I don't know what to do. I just want to be myself and feel both alive and happy at the same time. Is this even possible? I'm so depressed. I feel like I did last year before I tried to kill myself. But things are OK. I get along great with my co-workers. I think I could even be friends with them and it is so hard for me to make friends but I can't do it. I'm too scared to be intrusive or something like that. It's all so f****d-up. Why do I bother? I just want to be happy but it's so hard.
Posted by Else on August 3, 2001, at 10:14:49
In reply to Re: I'm so sick of living like this, posted by stjames on August 3, 2001, at 1:10:14
Which one are you on, pray tell?
> If whatever AD is causing "numbing" then clearly it is not the right one for you. This is a not so uncommon problem. I had to try several AD's till I found the ones that did not do this.
>
> james
Posted by jotho on August 3, 2001, at 10:20:34
In reply to I'm so sick of living like this, posted by Else on August 2, 2001, at 22:59:44
Else...
My heart goes out to you, as it also does to all those cursed by the cruel and unfair sleight-of-hand genetics has dealt us. As much as we are all here to support one another, it gets difficult saying (and hearing) the same things over and over, I can only add a "hang in there, friend", like everyone else says. It is also disheartening to hear "outsiders" tell us to "Pick yourselves up by the bootstraps and get on with it!" Almost hard to believe that there are really people dumb/naive enough to think that we are "choosing" this way of life...or that we can simply change our minds, or just think positively, and all will be well. Wow, I sure hope we are still an evolving species!!
Else, i won't comment on the back-forth thing you and JohnL seemed to be having...you both come from two distinct perspectives, both with great merit, but i am wondering, after the various meds. you've taken, if you would ever consider the low-dosage regimen that he seems to have success with. You seemed quite against usage of anti-P's in treatment for depression...but do you think maybe a very-low-dosage trial might be of benefit?
With the kindest of thoughts, jotho
Posted by Else on August 3, 2001, at 10:32:27
In reply to Re: I'm so sick of living like this, posted by Anna Laura on August 3, 2001, at 1:12:10
> Else, why don't you get another pdoc who's willing to prescribe Parnate ? You said it worked, right? If i knew that something worked for me, i'd do anything do get it. Go for it!It's very hard to change pdocs here. I would probably be on a waiting list for months. I am working on trying to get Parnate. My doctor favours "waiting long enough to see improvements". He seems very convinced anticonvulsants are for me. I don't have time to wait. I have been quite inconsistant with him. I come up with a different problem and miracle solution every month and he doesn't take me very seriously. I just spend way too much time analyzing my problems. I should just focus on what my symptoms actually are and what meds work. I get the impression he is not very perceptive though. It's his job to clear this up, not mine. But when I left him to decide he just kept me on Zoloft for a year and a half and seemed satisfied with my apathy which he apparently mistook for my normal mood. He doesn't know me at my best so he assumes Zoloft is my best (I am so DUMB on Zoloft). Anyway. I should just say I want Parnate + Klonopin and stop rambling. Maybe I would get what I want. Short and sweet, you know. But as you can see, I'm not very succinct (is this a word in english?).
Thank you and I wish you the best
> Wishing you well
>
> Anna Laura
Posted by Else on August 3, 2001, at 10:48:54
In reply to Re: I'm so sick of living like this » Else, posted by jotho on August 3, 2001, at 10:20:34
I am opposed to APs for depression because of what I have seen with my own eyes: People I know who had no feelings or facial expressions on APs. I don't know if 1mg of Risperdal is a low dose but my brother was so weird on it I thought he had been replaced by a robot ( very "Stepford Wives", you know what I mean). I thought it was really creepy.I just don't trust these drugs at all. I want a reasonnable trial at MAOIs because they have shown promise in the past. If these drugs let me down then I might be open to anything, but in the meantime, no.
Thank you for trying to cheer me up. I know I'll get better. I've had my lows in the past year but I don't behave the way I used to, I don't give up. I know I'll get through this nasty period. Thanks again and the best to you too.
> Else...
> My heart goes out to you, as it also does to all those cursed by the cruel and unfair sleight-of-hand genetics has dealt us. As much as we are all here to support one another, it gets difficult saying (and hearing) the same things over and over, I can only add a "hang in there, friend", like everyone else says. It is also disheartening to hear "outsiders" tell us to "Pick yourselves up by the bootstraps and get on with it!" Almost hard to believe that there are really people dumb/naive enough to think that we are "choosing" this way of life...or that we can simply change our minds, or just think positively, and all will be well. Wow, I sure hope we are still an evolving species!!
> Else, i won't comment on the back-forth thing you and JohnL seemed to be having...you both come from two distinct perspectives, both with great merit, but i am wondering, after the various meds. you've taken, if you would ever consider the low-dosage regimen that he seems to have success with. You seemed quite against usage of anti-P's in treatment for depression...but do you think maybe a very-low-dosage trial might be of benefit?
> With the kindest of thoughts, jotho
Posted by paxvox on August 3, 2001, at 11:23:34
In reply to Re: I'm so sick of living like this » jotho, posted by Else on August 3, 2001, at 10:48:54
Well, another wheel on the bandwagon. I personally do not think APs are an option for depression unless there is some definite indication of bipolar disorder. If you don't get manic, why take those meds? Some of them have NASTY and PERMANENT neurological side effects that are devastating. My peeve is the Pdocs, like mine, who "try" these meds as off-label prescriptions (E.G. Topamax or Depakote for insomnia caused by Wellbutrin). Well duhhhh!!!!!!
That seems to me like cleaving off your arm because you have a bleeding finger! Now, I'm not against off-label prescribing as long as there is a clear cause and effect establishment. But hey, we're not talking about harmless meds! I don't want to be depersonalized nor overmedicated. If you know that Wellbutrin may speed me up, why are you suprised? I feel that co-administration of the benzos provide the best results with the fewest side effects, but oh heavens! that means we have to give out controlled substances! Oh, then those crazies will be all drugged out! Can't have that! Sorry....maybe I do need the Depakote (grin). No thanks!
Posted by Else on August 3, 2001, at 12:46:56
In reply to Re: I'm so sick of living like this, posted by paxvox on August 3, 2001, at 11:23:34
> Well, another wheel on the bandwagon. I personally do not think APs are an option for depression unless there is some definite indication of bipolar disorder. If you don't get manic, why take those meds? Some of them have NASTY and PERMANENT neurological side effects that are devastating. My peeve is the Pdocs, like mine, who "try" these meds as off-label prescriptions (E.G. Topamax or Depakote for insomnia caused by Wellbutrin). Well duhhhh!!!!!!
> That seems to me like cleaving off your arm because you have a bleeding finger! Now, I'm not against off-label prescribing as long as there is a clear cause and effect establishment. But hey, we're not talking about harmless meds! I don't want to be depersonalized nor overmedicated. If you know that Wellbutrin may speed me up, why are you suprised? I feel that co-administration of the benzos provide the best results with the fewest side effects, but oh heavens! that means we have to give out controlled substances! Oh, then those crazies will be all drugged out! Can't have that! Sorry....maybe I do need the Depakote (grin). No thanks!I agree with you so very completely about everything you said. Let's spread the word shall we?
Posted by paxvox on August 3, 2001, at 13:22:37
In reply to Re: I'm so sick of living like this » paxvox, posted by Else on August 3, 2001, at 12:46:56
A burning ember, left untended, can cause quite the conflagration!
We need to be WE. Strength in numbers and all that. Maybe we need to form a PAC to lobby Congress for better access to qualified clinicians and quicker FDA clearance of efficacious meds.
May be, just may be.
Posted by Gracie2 on August 3, 2001, at 13:24:26
In reply to Re: I'm so sick of living like this » paxvox, posted by Else on August 3, 2001, at 12:46:56
Hi Guys-
Here is one suggestion...even though I was having panic attacks, my doctor was reluctant to prescribe benzos because I tend to abuse them when I am depressed or manic. He gave me the prescription when I agreed to give the pills to my husband. I need three pills a day, and he leaves them on the counter for me in the morning.
I know, I know...I feel kind of like a first-grader. (At least he doesn't have to pin a note to my shirt for my teacher). But it is working.
My husband doesn't have to worry about my overdosing and I am getting the medication that I need. Maybe just as important, this new psychiatrist displayed trust in me when I promised to turn over the pills to my husband.
I like him for that.
-Gracie
Posted by Simcha on August 3, 2001, at 14:09:03
In reply to I'm so sick of living like this, posted by Else on August 2, 2001, at 22:59:44
Else,
Buddy, I'm so sorry that life is so very painful for you right now. I can relate to your story and your pain. I don't remember a time in my life where I wasn't depressed, paranoid, anxious. It just didn't happen for me without medication.
I am not numb on ADs. I'm on Wellbutrin and Celexa. I think the pdoc is going to up my doses next week again. I've been having some return to negative thinking... The anxiety has been lessened though. ;-)
Some days on this mix I do feel ephorically happy. And why not? Logically I have everything a 31 year old man could need at this very moment. There are days when the "committee" in my head holds an extra session to bring me anxiety and pain. Those are the days where even though all I want to do is lock the door, crawl into bed and die, I need to ask for help.
You are a good example of that for me, Else. Here you are getting help in your darkness. You are worth it. I hope you find the path you need in order to get well.
I have learned to accept that through genetics and whatever else, I have a chemical imbalance. I need meds to restore the balance. It is a maintenance thing with me. I compare it to diabetes where one needs insulin in order to maintain wellness. I need my ADs in order to maintain my wellness.
Shalom,
Peace,
Simcha ;-)
Posted by Else on August 3, 2001, at 14:16:16
In reply to Re: I'm so sick of living like this » Else, posted by paxvox on August 3, 2001, at 13:22:37
Hey, I would be glad to help but I don't have a congressman since I live in Canada. But I'll try to do what I can here.
> A burning ember, left untended, can cause quite the conflagration!
>
> We need to be WE. Strength in numbers and all that. Maybe we need to form a PAC to lobby Congress for better access to qualified clinicians and quicker FDA clearance of efficacious meds.
>
> May be, just may be.
Posted by Else on August 3, 2001, at 14:33:26
In reply to Re: I'm so sick of living like this » Else, posted by Simcha on August 3, 2001, at 14:09:03
> Else,
>
> Buddy, I'm so sorry that life is so very painful for you right now. I can relate to your story and your pain. I don't remember a time in my life where I wasn't depressed, paranoid, anxious. It just didn't happen for me without medication.I used to be happy as a young child, I know this for a fact. I really don't know what happenned to me around age 6. Complete degeneration, I suppose.
> I am not numb on ADs. I'm on Wellbutrin and Celexa. I think the pdoc is going to up my doses next week again. I've been having some return to negative thinking... The anxiety has been lessened though. ;-)
I have this love-hate relationship with ADs and anticonvulsants. Like right now, I am supposed to take Neurontin three times a day but I often skip doses. I hate what these drugs do to me. And it's hard to describe exactly what they do. My doctor doesn't seem to get it. I haven't taken my Neurontin this morning and earlier I was listenning to this really good song ("Wishful Thinking" by Pulp, not that this is relevant) and it gave me chills and I cried. This is not depression to me. This is what being alive is supposed to feel like. On most drugs I just don't react to anything. I barely hear music, I don't notice the beauty around me. I just feel like a good productive automaton and that's not what I want to be. But if I go without drugs for too long, my anxiety returns with a vengeance and I become almost incapacitated. I am trying to find some kind of balance. I don't think Celexa would do it for me, I don't do well on SSRIs.
> Some days on this mix I do feel ephorically happy. And why not? Logically I have everything a 31 year old man could need at this very moment. There are days when the "committee" in my head holds an extra session to bring me anxiety and pain. Those are the days where even though all I want to do is lock the door, crawl into bed and die, I need to ask for help.I ruminate too. Except that instead of crawling into bed, I drink, which only makes me more depressed the next day. Not a good solution.
> You are a good example of that for me, Else. Here you are getting help in your darkness. You are worth it. I hope you find the path you need in order to get well.I hope so too but I am surprised to hear you say I am an example. I certainly don't see myself that way but thank you, I suppose.
> I have learned to accept that through genetics and whatever else, I have a chemical imbalance. I need meds to restore the balance. It is a maintenance thing with me. I compare it to diabetes where one needs insulin in order to maintain wellness. I need my ADs in order to maintain my wellness.You know, this is the biggest question for me. Sometimes I think, "Obviously it's genetics, my parents are so ******-up." But then I get into these endless debates in my head about how much control I do have. And this in itself can be pathological because when I feel good, these doubts don't even cross my mind. I find it so hard to untangle this whole mess.
> Shalom,
> Peace,
> Simcha ;-)Same to you
Best wishes
Posted by stjames on August 3, 2001, at 16:52:08
In reply to Re: I'm so sick of living like this » stjames, posted by Else on August 3, 2001, at 10:14:49
> Which one are you on, pray tell?
>
> > If whatever AD is causing "numbing" then clearly it is not the right one for you. This is a not so uncommon problem. I had to try several AD's till I found the ones that did not do this.
> >
> > jamesEffexor XR 300 mgs and Remeron 15 mgs
Posted by Else on August 3, 2001, at 18:39:30
In reply to Re: I'm so sick of living like this, posted by stjames on August 3, 2001, at 16:52:08
I couldn't tolerate Effexor at all. I don't think Remeron is availlable in Canada. But thanks anyways.
> > Which one are you on, pray tell?
> >
> > > If whatever AD is causing "numbing" then clearly it is not the right one for you. This is a not so uncommon problem. I had to try several AD's till I found the ones that did not do this.
> > >
> > > james
>
> Effexor XR 300 mgs and Remeron 15 mgs
Posted by Mitch on August 4, 2001, at 10:44:43
In reply to I'm so sick of living like this, posted by Else on August 2, 2001, at 22:59:44
> It's simple really. On antidepressants or anticonvulsants I don't fully realize how badly my life sucks. So I just deal with it in a relatively effective, albeit deeply bored way. When I am off, the horror strikes me. Right now I am on Wellbutrin but it's not a normal AD. Anyway. I don't want to numb myself to make my horrible life seem OK. So now what? When I am off, like right now, everything seems so hopeless. I don't want to be a zombie but I don't want to kill myself either. I don't know what to do. I just want to be myself and feel both alive and happy at the same time. Is this even possible? I'm so depressed. I feel like I did last year before I tried to kill myself. But things are OK. I get along great with my co-workers. I think I could even be friends with them and it is so hard for me to make friends but I can't do it. I'm too scared to be intrusive or something like that. It's all so f****d-up. Why do I bother? I just want to be happy but it's so hard.
Else,
I can identify somewhat. I stopped taking Zoloft about three weeks ago and went through a withdrawal of sorts. SSri's seem to "readjust" your outlook and "paint" things better than they may be. I noticed when I stopped it I had this definite "black" "existential-blues" feeling that lasted quite a while. It is now starting to lift a little, and I feel more relaxed without the med. I am bipolar and still have to take other meds, but I am beginning to wonder if for several years I would have been better off with good psychotherapy for the secondary problems (social anxiety, i.e.) instead of an AD.
Mitch
Posted by Else on August 4, 2001, at 11:56:11
In reply to Re: I'm so sick of living like this » Else, posted by Mitch on August 4, 2001, at 10:44:43
What really bugs me is that these meds seem to dull ALL emotions, good and bad. I'm the sort of person who gets chills listenning to music I love and who cries easily, but that's OK. I like that. I feel alive when I'm like that. The whole time I was on Zoloft, my whole impression of everything seemed to be "Whatever". I think ADs are good when you're really low; and having no feelings at all is a better alternative to feeling horrible all the time. But there has got to be a better alternative for dysthymia or anxiety disorders.
I don't remember who made the remark about "amputating a hand because of a cut on a finger" or something like that. But this is what this feels like to me.
I have been diagnosed as atypical bipolar once. This diagnosis was revised to BPD by another doctor. Anyway, I don't really care one way or the other. It's all just words as far as I'm concerned but I have been on anticonvulsants for over a year now. First it was Depakote, now Neurontin (which I prefer). I never really knew what these drugs were supposed to do but I have been such a good girl in the past year compared to the way I was before. No drugs, no self-destructive behavior, no benders, I didn't spend week-ends crying uncontrollably because some stupid guy hasn't called. In a sense, I'm doing much better. So why is it that I kind of miss my old self at times? Is this really stupid? Probably.
When I go off my meds I get this rush for a couple of weeks. I feel so good, so alive, colors seem brighter, music sounds better, everything is better. Then I start to freak out over little things again and I have to go back on the meds. Anxiety is a bigger problem for me than depression. Right now I only take Klonopin and Neurontin (my doctor scolded me for going back on Wellbutrin without telling him). I still feel socially anxious and I hate the Neurontin for some obscure reason although it's not as bad as Depakote. I'm just being a baby I think. But I miss the excitment. Pdocs think too much excitement is a bad thing for their patients and they are right, I suppose. But something is amiss. I am just looking for some middle ground. Somehow, I think the older, shorter acting drugs are better in some way (stimulants, tranquilizers, even opiates). They don't change who you are. Anyway. I guess I want to have my cake and eat it too. Thanks for responding, Mitch, and I wish you well. I hope you do OK off the Zoloft. I have grown to hate this drug with a passion. I don't think I could ever pop another one of these little orange capsules (this is what the 100mgs look like in Canada)in my life.
>
> I can identify somewhat. I stopped taking Zoloft about three weeks ago and went through a withdrawal of sorts. SSri's seem to "readjust" your outlook and "paint" things better than they may be. I noticed when I stopped it I had this definite "black" "existential-blues" feeling that lasted quite a while. It is now starting to lift a little, and I feel more relaxed without the med. I am bipolar and still have to take other meds, but I am beginning to wonder if for several years I would have been better off with good psychotherapy for the secondary problems (social anxiety, i.e.) instead of an AD.
>
> Mitch
Posted by Mitch on August 4, 2001, at 13:38:37
In reply to Re: I'm so sick of living like this » Mitch, posted by Else on August 4, 2001, at 11:56:11
> What really bugs me is that these meds seem to dull ALL emotions, good and bad. I'm the sort of person who gets chills listenning to music I love and who cries easily, but that's OK. I like that. I feel alive when I'm like that. The whole time I was on Zoloft, my whole impression of everything seemed to be "Whatever". I think ADs are good when you're really low; and having no feelings at all is a better alternative to feeling horrible all the time. But there has got to be a better alternative for dysthymia or anxiety disorders.
>
> I don't remember who made the remark about "amputating a hand because of a cut on a finger" or something like that. But this is what this feels like to me.
> I have been diagnosed as atypical bipolar once. This diagnosis was revised to BPD by another doctor. Anyway, I don't really care one way or the other. It's all just words as far as I'm concerned but I have been on anticonvulsants for over a year now. First it was Depakote, now Neurontin (which I prefer). I never really knew what these drugs were supposed to do but I have been such a good girl in the past year compared to the way I was before. No drugs, no self-destructive behavior, no benders, I didn't spend week-ends crying uncontrollably because some stupid guy hasn't called. In a sense, I'm doing much better. So why is it that I kind of miss my old self at times? Is this really stupid? Probably.
> When I go off my meds I get this rush for a couple of weeks. I feel so good, so alive, colors seem brighter, music sounds better, everything is better. Then I start to freak out over little things again and I have to go back on the meds. Anxiety is a bigger problem for me than depression. Right now I only take Klonopin and Neurontin (my doctor scolded me for going back on Wellbutrin without telling him). I still feel socially anxious and I hate the Neurontin for some obscure reason although it's not as bad as Depakote. I'm just being a baby I think. But I miss the excitment. Pdocs think too much excitement is a bad thing for their patients and they are right, I suppose. But something is amiss. I am just looking for some middle ground. Somehow, I think the older, shorter acting drugs are better in some way (stimulants, tranquilizers, even opiates). They don't change who you are. Anyway. I guess I want to have my cake and eat it too. Thanks for responding, Mitch, and I wish you well. I hope you do OK off the Zoloft. I have grown to hate this drug with a passion. I don't think I could ever pop another one of these little orange capsules (this is what the 100mgs look like in Canada)in my life.
>
>Else, I am taking Depakote 125mg, Neurontin 200mg, and Klonopin .5mg (sleep), with 10mg nortripytline (for my ADHD). I wonder if your doses of anticonvulsants may be just a little too high. I feel more stable (and attentive!) on my current combination than anything else I have every taken. I was reading here that a lot of people diagnosed as BPD may in fact have ADHD.
Mitch
Posted by Else on August 4, 2001, at 14:21:39
In reply to Re: I'm so sick of living like this » Else, posted by Mitch on August 4, 2001, at 13:38:37
>
> Else, I am taking Depakote 125mg, Neurontin 200mg, and Klonopin .5mg (sleep), with 10mg nortripytline (for my ADHD). I wonder if your doses of anticonvulsants may be just a little too high. I feel more stable (and attentive!) on my current combination than anything else I have every taken. I was reading here that a lot of people diagnosed as BPD may in fact have ADHD.
>
> MitchOuch! Really? I was *started* on Depakote 125mg THREE times a day. That was considered a small dose. My doctor upped the dosage to 2000mg daily at some point and I have never been manic in my life (only mildly hypomanic, from taking meds). Same thing with Neurontin, I take 900mg daily and started at 300. I know I wouldn't even notice a 0.5mg dose of Klonopin. It would certainly not help me sleep (when I have trouble sleeping, my doc gives me Restoril 30mg). I'm not someone who gets drowsy very easily (except with anti-histamines). I'm basically a nervous wreck (I have GAD). I have a great deal of trouble tolerating any activating AD. But maybe you do have a point after all. I have heard repeatedly that less is sometimes more with psychiatric meds and I think my doctor has a tendency towards overkill (he once put me on 300mg of Effexor a day and I litterally couldn't sleep for days and I was so irritable I thought I might kill someone). Thank you for the input. It's reassuring to know that someone who is bipolar can do well on such small doses of medication.
P.S. I am pretty sure I have ADHD, I have never taken the BPD diagnosis too seriously (I've never dissociated or been psychotic in any way). What is the commercial name of nortryptiline? This isn't the first time I hear about this.
Posted by Mitch on August 4, 2001, at 23:14:42
In reply to Re: I'm so sick of living like this » Mitch, posted by Else on August 4, 2001, at 14:21:39
>
> >
> > Else, I am taking Depakote 125mg, Neurontin 200mg, and Klonopin .5mg (sleep), with 10mg nortripytline (for my ADHD). I wonder if your doses of anticonvulsants may be just a little too high. I feel more stable (and attentive!) on my current combination than anything else I have every taken. I was reading here that a lot of people diagnosed as BPD may in fact have ADHD.
> >
> > Mitch
>
> Ouch! Really? I was *started* on Depakote 125mg THREE times a day. That was considered a small dose. My doctor upped the dosage to 2000mg daily at some point and I have never been manic in my life (only mildly hypomanic, from taking meds). Same thing with Neurontin, I take 900mg daily and started at 300. I know I wouldn't even notice a 0.5mg dose of Klonopin. It would certainly not help me sleep (when I have trouble sleeping, my doc gives me Restoril 30mg). I'm not someone who gets drowsy very easily (except with anti-histamines). I'm basically a nervous wreck (I have GAD). I have a great deal of trouble tolerating any activating AD. But maybe you do have a point after all. I have heard repeatedly that less is sometimes more with psychiatric meds and I think my doctor has a tendency towards overkill (he once put me on 300mg of Effexor a day and I litterally couldn't sleep for days and I was so irritable I thought I might kill someone). Thank you for the input. It's reassuring to know that someone who is bipolar can do well on such small doses of medication.
>
> P.S. I am pretty sure I have ADHD, I have never taken the BPD diagnosis too seriously (I've never dissociated or been psychotic in any way). What is the commercial name of nortryptiline? This isn't the first time I hear about this.
The commercial name for the nortriptyline is Pamelor. It is a TCA and has been here since dirt was invented. I think that the reason I can be *stable* on such low doses is a lifetime (20+years being bipolar), the hypomania tends to "burn out" somewhat with age! I was on 1500mg/day of Lithium for years (in my 20's). I have always been hypersensitive to AD's. I CAN NOT take a standard dose of ANY antidepressant. The closest thing to that was taking 30mg of Remeron at bedtime for a few weeks.Mitch
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 5, 2001, at 21:39:03
In reply to Re: Yo, Dr. Bob! , posted by stjames on August 5, 2001, at 20:07:35
> Dr Bob has mentioned that it is best to e-mail him
> to get a quicker responce. I have done so.Until further notice, however, please use dr-bob@dr-bob.org instead of my usual email address. Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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