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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 21 to 45 of 64. Go back in thread:
Posted by Daisym on April 21, 2007, at 23:23:45
In reply to Re: An Open Letter to Daisy - please hear » Daisym, posted by zazenducke on April 21, 2007, at 20:33:49
****Daisy how do you think people who don't agree with you should express themselves? You write sometimes about wanting to be heard...and I would really like your thoughts. Are you asking everyone to just not talk about any negative experiences here?
***Nope - never have ever asked anyone to not post about any negative experiences. People disagree with me ALL the time. What I was hoping to point out was that this place isn't all bad. And all the fighting makes people leave and that makes me sad. Because we are fighting about the fighting now, not the issue anymore. Does that make any sense at all?
Posted by Daisym on April 21, 2007, at 23:37:02
In reply to Re: An Open Letter to Babblers - please read, posted by verne on April 21, 2007, at 20:55:57
I tried but I only managed reading about half of your open letter. I felt compelled after the "please read" to actually read a post for a change.
***Sorry, I'm sort of known for my long-winded posts, I do tend to ramble.I don't think your sigh after one of my posts meant to do anything but make me feel more alienated. "Sigh, he doesn't get it". "Sigh, he's not one of us". "Sigh..." Sort of like, the aforementioned, "Pardon Me". Same crap really.
***Actually, it was meant to convey great, deep sadness because you were leaving. Because that was/is my fear. People leave babble when things get rough. But I can see how it would be misread. Should have waited before pushing that darn "send" button. I apologize for what it must have sounded like.
Emotionally loaded *sighs* and *pardon me's* are allowed as *civil*. Just a different way of telling someone to jump off a cliff really.
****Nope, didn't mean that at all. You don't know me, so you have no reason to believe this, but it isn't how I operate.I can play the babble word game with the best of them, but I refuse. I could run circles around you, even provoke you into getting yourself blocked, and still not be censored. I'm being nice, and extra civil, by leaving.
***** maybe, but I'm not up to the challenge right now. Life is hard enough. And this wasn't meant at all as a word game or even to provoke anything. Should have kept my head down and stayed in my corner. I wasn't even really trying to help calm things down, or choose sides or anything. I was just expressing my own silly sentiments. I feel fully chastised now for doing that. My own risk though, so I'll own it.I could play your game but the cost is too high. To borrow from Dostovesky, "The price of admission is too high."
****I think I agree and will fade away again. I just hope you know that I didn't, don't, never had, anything personal against you. I don't know you, you don't know me. I'm still sad, you sound angry. This is a loss for both of us.
Be well.
Daisy
Posted by Daisym on April 21, 2007, at 23:39:01
In reply to I would have had the same reaction » verne, posted by Gabbi-2 on April 21, 2007, at 21:02:06
Again not my intent. And I can think of no time on Babble that I ever patronized or belittled. So not my style. I hope I didn't make you feel bad by association.
Daisy
Posted by Happyflower on April 21, 2007, at 23:43:23
In reply to Re: An Open Letter to Babblers - please read » Happyflower, posted by Declan on April 21, 2007, at 22:55:37
> "Notes From Underground" is one of the funniest books I have read, especially the first half.
Oh, I agree! Many in my philopsy class was put off by the undeground man, but I thought he was so funny. What an awesome pyschology and philopshy study this story was. I did my paper on him taking a pyschological profile approach. The prof. loved it, gave me an A.
Posted by Daisym on April 21, 2007, at 23:43:30
In reply to Re: An Open Letter to Babblers - please read » verne, posted by fayeroe on April 21, 2007, at 21:05:18
I'm just going down the list to say "not my intent, sorry, didn't mean to offend." I'm worried that it will stop sounding sincere but it is. I guess the message of my post is lost to this. Is there the equivalent of a white flag here?
Posted by Daisym on April 21, 2007, at 23:45:47
In reply to Re: An Open Letter to Babblers - please read » verne, posted by zazenducke on April 21, 2007, at 21:10:25
Sometimes a sigh is just a sigh. There was only sadness about more fighting and another person leaving.
And now there is another.
Daisy
Posted by Daisym on April 21, 2007, at 23:48:00
In reply to A sigh, posted by tofuemmy on April 21, 2007, at 22:37:52
yes. I give up. Exactly.
This is where I begin to think that being a middle child, wanting peace to reign and everyone to be happy really gets in the way.
Posted by Daisym on April 21, 2007, at 23:49:20
In reply to Re: An Open Letter to Babblers - please read, posted by Honore on April 21, 2007, at 22:41:39
You said it better than I did and shorter too. :)
Posted by zazenducke on April 21, 2007, at 23:52:40
In reply to Re: An Open Letter to Daisy - please hear, posted by Daisym on April 21, 2007, at 23:23:45
> ****Daisy how do you think people who don't agree with you should express themselves? You write sometimes about wanting to be heard...and I would really like your thoughts. Are you asking everyone to just not talk about any negative experiences here?
>
> ***Nope - never have ever asked anyone to not post about any negative experiences. People disagree with me ALL the time. What I was hoping to point out was that this place isn't all bad. And all the fighting makes people leave and that makes me sad. Because we are fighting about the fighting now, not the issue anymore. Does that make any sense at all?'''''''''
No. sorry it doesn't make any sense to me at all.
I haven't seen anyone say this place is ALL bad at all. Could you be specific?
I think people leave for lots of reasons.
A lot of them can't even be mentioned without being blocked. It feels as if the elephant in the room stomps you bloody and kicks you out of the house if you mention it. How can we discuss negative experiences without mentioning them? If you consider this discussions "fighting", how can we discuss these things in a different way?
Could you tell me what you consider the "issue"?
I think people leave because of the things people have been complaining about. And that makes me sad.
Thanks for replying. I genuinely don't understand what you meant. I just don't understand.
Posted by Daisym on April 22, 2007, at 0:00:35
In reply to Re: I would have had the same reaction » Gabbi-2, posted by Daisym on April 21, 2007, at 23:39:01
I think that's probably how it was meant, it was likely a sigh about everything going on. When it's directed directly after a certain post, (not a lengthy thread) and at someone you don't frequently post to, or perhaps never have, I don't think it should be surprising that it's found offensive.
****Really? Because I was surprised. But upon reflection can see why it could or would be interpreted that way. But I'm such a polly-anna that I don't think things through sometimes.IF I posted one post that was important to me, no matter what the content, and someone I didn't really know took the time to simply post *sigh* underneath it, it would make me feel I wasn't even being acknowledged as a person, and it's a closed comment, it obviously instigates feelings in the person it's directed at but doesn't convey that you consider them even worthy of the dignity of responding.
*****Again - not at all what I meant to convey. I didn't want to argue with the post or comment on it. It was about sadness that someone was so unhappy they needed to leave. It was about not knowing what to say but wanting to say something. But again, NOW I can see how it might have been construed that way, particularly from someone who doesn't know that I'm not an instigator, I'm not particularly challenging and I don't ever try to be difficult.I'm not saying that's how it was meant (Though at times on Babble I'm quite sure that's the intent)
I'm just saying it seems quite justified that someone feel looked down upon when it happens.
****I hope the explanation and apology clarify the intent.
Posted by Daisym on April 22, 2007, at 0:18:43
In reply to Re: An Open Letter to Daisy - please hear » Daisym, posted by zazenducke on April 21, 2007, at 23:52:40
I don't want to split hairs - and I'm sure anytime I use "all" or "none" there will be a place to be wrong. Which is fine.
The "issue" I was refering to was about animal jokes. Then it turned into who could say what and how civil was this and then about the deputies and then...I'm not commenting on any of that, who is right or wrong or whatever.
I guess I should have just left this all alone. Maybe I'm not smart enough to understand it or follow along. I don't want to debate anyone. I am sad, that is how I feel. I guess I want everyone to have the same experience I have most of the time here but it isn't in my power to make that happen for anyone but me.
thanks for trying to understand. Please let it go, OK? I don't want to be misunderstood anymore or cause more angst. I really do need that white flag.
Daisy
Posted by gardenergirl on April 22, 2007, at 0:24:48
In reply to Re: An Open Letter to Daisy - please hear, posted by Daisym on April 22, 2007, at 0:18:43
You feel what you feel. I'm sorry you're sad. It will be okay again, I feel certain.
In the meantime, when my new shoes come in, I can tell you all about them in my shoe fashion challenged way.
Namaste
gg
Posted by zazenducke on April 22, 2007, at 0:38:02
In reply to Re: An Open Letter to Daisy - please hear, posted by Daisym on April 22, 2007, at 0:18:43
since we're talking feelings
Disagreeing and speaking out isn't "fighting"
I wasn't splitting hairs.
You're always free not to respond. You don't need my permission.
Posted by Daisym on April 22, 2007, at 0:58:16
In reply to I feel accused dismissed guilt-tripped and sad, posted by zazenducke on April 22, 2007, at 0:38:02
I should give up but I really, really don't want you to feel accused, dismissed, guilt-tripped. I guess since I feel sad I wouldn't mind the company in that.
I'm not accusing you of anything. Actually, just the opposite as I am trying to unwind myself from the mess I've made. Apologies typed out never sound as sincere as I would like them to. But believe me when I say I'm trying to disengage without malice.
I'm trying to back away, take responsibility and make nice, not dismiss you. Hence my plea.
Guilt tripped - I hope not. You are so right that disagreeing and speaking out isn't fighting. I just don't want to do any of things anymore tonight.
I'm sorry you are sad. Me too. I think we all need ice cream. Or whatever makes you feel better.
Posted by Happyflower on April 22, 2007, at 7:01:29
In reply to Re: I feel accused dismissed guilt-tripped and sad » zazenducke, posted by Daisym on April 22, 2007, at 0:58:16
(((((Daisy)))) I am sorry you got in the mix of all this. I am sure I am one who started this, by speaking out against joking about abuse. I still am on this issue.
I think sometimes it seems when there is a controversial topic (and believe me I have been in a few around here), it seems like things do go off in many tangents to everything else other than the subject. Then the main issue gets lost in the shuffle and forgotten, which caused a lot of frusteration.
I think there are some main issues that have come from this.
1. should abuse jokes of animals and people be allowed on a mental health site because of the sensistivity of the "clientale"
2. Is it possible to be a deputy and a personal poster at the same time and still remain objective in a duel role.
I believe the trouble comes is when it become "personal". Can deputies not let their personal views "flavor" the decisions they make. I believe they can't all the time, and this is where a lot of hostility comes in because of their choices. I agree with everyone else that they do the best job they can under the circumstances and I do value their volunteer work. I personally don't think it is fair to put them in such a demanding role, especially since many are having their own personal struggle too.
Someone more neurtral would be better suited and I am sure Dr. Bob could get someone not connected to anyone personally here, who is in training to be a T or something simular, to volunteer as a depupty as part of their training. I feel it would save a lot of hurt feelings. Plus it would allow the deputies to be regular posters, were they are equal to everyone else.
So I don't think it is all bad stuff that has come out of this.And the thing about allowing abuse jokes , well I have talked enought about why it shouldn't be allowed here, and I won't keep bringing it up.
So I know there are a lot of hurt feelings here, people are taking of sides of who they want to support, which is fine, but if we all could look at things objectivley as possible,(without the personal feelings) maybe the issues that were addressed in the first place would have some resolution. In my heart, I am only trying to make Babble a better place. I am not trying to fight with anyone.
Posted by Gabbi-2 on April 22, 2007, at 11:20:11
In reply to Re: I feel accused dismissed guilt-tripped and sad » Daisym, posted by Happyflower on April 22, 2007, at 7:01:29
I'm sorry, you took one trip over here wanting peace and got jumped on. I really didn't need to say what I'd said. I know you dont belittle people, I've had really good conversations with you in the past and respect the way you speak.
I'd tried to say that I didn't think it was your intent, but I could see how I would feel if I didn't know the poster, and that part is true. But it got lost in a muck of words, and in the scheme of things really wasn't necessary.
I apologize
Posted by Gabbi-2 on April 22, 2007, at 11:47:47
In reply to Daisy » Happyflower, posted by Gabbi-2 on April 22, 2007, at 11:20:11
Posted by Happyflower on April 22, 2007, at 12:15:18
In reply to Re: Daisy^^ whoops above for Daisy. (nm), posted by Gabbi-2 on April 22, 2007, at 11:47:47
So it that a whoops-a-daisy? :)
Posted by karen_kay on April 22, 2007, at 12:36:49
In reply to An Open Letter to Babblers - please read, posted by Daisym on April 21, 2007, at 17:38:44
Posted by Gabbi-2 on April 22, 2007, at 12:46:52
In reply to Re: Daisy^^ whoops above for Daisy. » Gabbi-2, posted by Happyflower on April 22, 2007, at 12:15:18
Do you ever wonder where those expressions come from? I mean 'whoops a daisy?' how on earth does something like that get passed down from generation to generation
Posted by Daisym on April 22, 2007, at 13:14:26
In reply to Daisy » Happyflower, posted by Gabbi-2 on April 22, 2007, at 11:20:11
No worries Gabbi, but thanks for taking the time to post this. It made me feel better. And HF made me smile, she always does.
OK - how about chocolate all around, and we move on?
I read today in our paper about local parents who lost their son at VT. It made me cry. I am humbled by their loss and pain. It makes my friends even more important to me.
((((Babble))))
Posted by Deneb on April 22, 2007, at 15:49:40
In reply to Re: Daisy » Gabbi-2, posted by Daisym on April 22, 2007, at 13:14:26
((((((((((((((((Daisy)))))))))))))))))
I'm sorry there were misunderstandings.
((((((((((hugs for everyone))))))))))
Deneb*
Posted by zazenducke on April 22, 2007, at 17:24:44
In reply to Re: Daisy, posted by Deneb on April 22, 2007, at 15:49:40
thanks for being a peacemaker
i'm sure every one and daisy appreciates it
Posted by Kath on April 22, 2007, at 17:55:55
In reply to A sigh, posted by tofuemmy on April 21, 2007, at 22:37:52
> The sigh *I* am thinking of made me think, "I am exasperated, and feel without words". To me, it's a sound indicating a sad sense of feeling defeated or vaquished. Sorta giving up.
>
> I guess others see it differently?
>
> em***That's exactly how I interpret an 'online' sigh.
a sad sense of feeling defeated or vanquished; sorta giving up.Katah
Posted by Kath on April 22, 2007, at 17:58:20
In reply to Re: An Open Letter to Babblers - please read, posted by Honore on April 21, 2007, at 22:41:39
> > This evening, when I was out, I was telling someone what an amazing place this is, how many intelligent and thoughtful people contribute so much of themselves-- the deputies, as deputies and posters, and so many other posters here. That's it's really amazing that such a place exists-- that it was created by one person and that it continues in such a fine and deep way. Also that I felt bad that there was a bad time here now-- a lot of bad feelings-- and that I thought it was so easy to forget what a special thing it is here.--even now.
>
> I just hope that we can stick with one another here- through the rougher times-- and not become so disillusioned that we lose sight of what we've created together.
>
> Honore****Good thoughts Honore. I agree
Kath**
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