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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by bozeman on March 10, 2003, at 1:12:22
My life sucks. I finally managed to get out of bed yesterday (been deathly ill for nearly 2 weeks, all I've done is take care of Zorro, eat when I remember to, and go back to bed) and felt sort of human. Not even almost human, but better than death warmed over, which was an improvement. Decided that there really is no time like the present, for some things, and I'd just as soon get it over with, as bad news doesn't get any better from being delayed. I confronted the boyfriend. Unfortunately, he responded *exactly* as I knew in my heart he would, but hoped he wouldn't, so with a heavy heart I gathered up my stuff and left without a word. No point in belaboring it, or fighting until dawn over something neither of us is willing to budge on. I didn't scream, didn't plead, didn't cry, and he watched my every move, like he was expecting to wake from a bad dream, expecting me to crack and say I'm sorry, let's don't do this, just watched me pack the car and drive away. Didn't offer to help, and I didn't ask. He just stood there in the door like a ghost and watched me go.
This is the story of my life -- fall in love with a man, and eventually reach an impasse over the very terms of the relationship. I'm not going to agree with you simply because you can shout louder than I can. You don't have to agree with me, but you have to allow me my opinions, and don't ask me what they are unless you actually want to know. I'll be tactful, always, but I won't lie to you to make you happy. I don't shove my opinions on him, or my way of doing things, but he expects me to adopt his. Not because he thinks he's better or smarter, but because he's insecure, and he's the Man so he should win.
Jeez, how many times have I lived this by now??? How much money have I spent on couples counseling only to hear the counselor tell "mate of the year" that, "Yes, the woman has a point -- you're not being fair about this. You have to either agree to disagree, or agree to problem-solve to a mutually agreeable solution, or at worst to a compromise, and any idea is not automatically a bad idea just because she thought of it first. She's a classically trained problem solver, and you can't expect her to just leave that at work and act like a damsel in distress when she comes home. It seems to me she's more than willing to meet you halfway on any front you wish. I wish my wife was half that flexible, for pete's sake. What's the matter with you, can't you see what a great thing you have going here? Most men would kill for a mate like her," yada yada yada. While all this is nice and affirming for my conflict-resolution skills, it doesn't do a damn thing to keep my relationship together, much less help my other problems, like needing a mate I can trust and count on, who's ready for marriage and fatherhood before my biological clock expires, wanting someone to laugh and share and grow with, not wanting to grow old alone, with no husband or children or grandchildren.
Don't get me wrong, I am not one of these people who starts naming children before the end of the first date. This has been a four-year relationship, the one before that was a four years, before that was two years, etc. etc. I don't think by anyone's standards I'm expecting anything ridiculous here. I just apparently have a gift for choosing men who are either incapable of or unwilling to commit to a workable long-term relationship with me -- and a blind spot (soft spot? In my head?) for noticing it early on, when separation would hurt less and the time spent would matter less. I know, I'm not the easiest person in the world to live with -- I'm too smart for my own good, obsessive, compulsive, opinionated, stubborn, sensitive, somewhat of a perfectionist, overachiever, goal-oriented, and insecure sometimes -- but I'm also loyal, dedicated, principled, passionate about life and love, resourceful, strong, nurturing, gentle, creative, interesting, funny, and fun to be around. Lots of weight on both sides of the package, I know. Is that so terrible? Is it so hard to deal with that the "normal" guys all run screaming, and all I'm left with are the "machismo" brutes or impractical poets who can't hold a job (like my ex-husband, an eight-year relationship.)
I know, I know, AD's are not supposed to *stop* you from feeling pain, they're supposed to allow you to feel your pain and deal with it without being overwhelmed into numbness. I suppose I'd be completely numb and incapable of doing anything but curling up into a ball without them . . . and for that, I'm sure I should be glad. But it still sucks. And I still want to crawl into a hole. I know, medication doesn't solve anything, it just gives you breathing room so you can work through your emotional baggage -- you still have to work through it. And I will -- I don't have a choice, it's my life, I have to fix it and keep going. For tonight at least, I have chocolate, I have alcohol, and I have kitties. I know the alcohol will fight my AD's and make me feel like sh*+ tomorrow, but I don't care, it's not like I'm not already sick so what's the difference? It's better than the alternative (calling him and rehashing the same old garbage, which I refuse to do. He's had a month to think about this since we fought about it the first time, and if he hasn't budged in that time, he's not going to. God Himself could sweep down from Heaven and tell this man he was wrong and it wouldn't matter, he'd find a way to sidestep it.)
Don't worry, I'm not in danger, from him, or from myself. I just have to find my way through this existential angst hell for the next however long it lasts. There ought to be a rule, that only one thing in your life can go to pieces at a time. The loss wouldn't hurt any less, but it would be easier to handle if not for everything else (layoffs, reorg, old job phased out, new job not exactly a dream job, overly ridiculous stressful deadlines interspersed with periods of bore-me-to-tears tedium, hours too long and pay too short, too many medical expenses not covered by insurance, never enough money, never enough time, or energy to do anything productive or rewarding, can't get my life organized, allergic to anything and everthing so I can't even get carry-out without major trauma, life is a mess, house is a mess, can't seem to dig out from under the mess of being without a place of my own for so many years (my stuff was all in storage for the longest time, so I don't even remember what's in half the boxes, I just remember the stuff I want to find but can't, like my bread machine, and workout equipment), I owe a bunch of money I don't know how the hell I'm ever going to pay from the years-long saga of "we-don't-know-what's-wrong-with-you-but-maybe-this-expensive-specialist-can-tell-us-oh-maybe-not-maybe-you-need-this-expensive-test-instead-oh-your-insurance-doesn't-cover-this-one-oh-that's-right-you-don't-have-insurance-because-you-can-no-longer-work-etc!" and in the middle of it all your car breaks down and of course you have to put a couple thousand dollars of repairs on a damn credit card), yikes, it'll take a miracle to keep me from losing my house before the year is out (I'm not exaggerating at all about this), my family is falling apart and needs my help, but I can't run my own life competently, what the hell can I do for them, but I'm the only one who can, so it'll be me anyway, etc. etc. etc. I'm tired of typing out all my troubles, it's just depressing me worse. You get the picture, I'm sure.)
I don't know what the hell to do. I could disappear, I suppose, change my name and buy a new identity, not steal someone else's, but create one from scratch like they do for witness protection program people, but that never works long-term, my problems would still be my problems just under another name, and I could never get another job without my credentials anyway, which tie me to my old life. And even if I did that, it wouldn't solve the problem of the expiring biological clock, and the ridiculous hopeless impossible pressure that puts on me and the poor man who ends up being my "last-chance-to-reproduce" relationship. Nobody deserves that kind of pressure, spoken or unspoken. (Hey, on the bright side, at least I can think about *having* another relationship, and not drowning myself in the bathtub! Let's hear it for psychotropic drugs!!!!!!)
Remember that old ad "Calgon, take me away!!!" That's how I feel right now. I just want to dig a hole, crawl in, and never come out. Life isn't supposed to be this hard. Is it?
I don't know if it's the wine, delirium, exhaustion, or the purgative effect of writing this, but I do feel better. Thanks for listening to my madness.
Posted by Dinah on March 10, 2003, at 1:53:56
In reply to Worst fear realized . . . , posted by bozeman on March 10, 2003, at 1:12:22
(((Bozeman)))
I'm really sorry. No, life isn't supposed to be like this, but it is all too often anyway. Problems should at least come at a nice steady pace rather than piled all at once.
Vent away. You deserve it, and we're here to listen.
Posted by IsoM on March 10, 2003, at 2:49:03
In reply to Worst fear realized . . . , posted by bozeman on March 10, 2003, at 1:12:22
My favourite kitty girl, drop me a line, please:
isomorphix@hotmail.com
It's just my junk mail that I use for initial contact. I'll write back from my good one. Been very busy with my kidney kitty & other things so haven't been by PB lately.
Posted by beardedlady on March 10, 2003, at 6:22:00
In reply to Worst fear realized . . . , posted by bozeman on March 10, 2003, at 1:12:22
Boze(wo)man:
I'm so sorry you're going through all this now. I don't have any advice, just good wishes. The issue of children has been the end of many a couple, but you were right to put your future first. Your desire for kids won't go away; it just doesn't. Instead, you get bitter.
So don't look back, wondering if you'd done the right thing. You did.
As for your comment here:
"I'm too smart for my own good, obsessive, compulsive, opinionated, stubborn, sensitive, somewhat of a perfectionist, overachiever, goal-oriented, and insecure sometimes...."
Were those supposed to be your BAD qualities?
"...but I'm also loyal, dedicated, principled, passionate about life and love, resourceful, strong, nurturing, gentle, creative, interesting, funny, and fun to be around."
And those were your good ones?
What are you doing for dinner tonight, babe?
You sound like a great choice. So if he's not knocking on your door begging to apologize, someone else will be there with a dinner proposal soon!
Again, I'm so sorry you're going through this. Four years is a major investment, but your future is a bigger one. Good luck and know that we are all here for you.
beardy
Posted by kara lynne on March 10, 2003, at 12:09:28
In reply to Worst fear realized . . . , posted by bozeman on March 10, 2003, at 1:12:22
Hi bozeman,
So sorry you have to go through this while you're feeling bad physically--something else I can relate to. You showed the kind of courage I'm trying to muster up for myself. Freedom is on the other side. This side is just dragging the pain out, as you say. Aside from describing a relationship that just plain wasn't good for you, was having children the central issue that you confronted him about? I'm going for one last hurrah weekend away with my boyfriend of four years in a couple of days-- hope I get the kind of courage you showed when I need it. Thinking of you, kara
Posted by fayeroe on March 10, 2003, at 14:58:30
In reply to Worst fear realized . . . , posted by bozeman on March 10, 2003, at 1:12:22
bozeman: WHY does it all happen at once? i lost my job, my best friend's 5 month old grandson died in his crib, i had to put my 17 year old dog to sleep and i'm broke and then i found out that my two older sisters had found the hidden key to the ranchhouse that i inherited and have been going through my personal things that i had stored there! WHEN DOES IT END? they are both Jesus Freaks (excuse me, everyone, but you know what i mean) and i'm sure that my literature and such has set off all kinds of reactions with them and my photographs of nude women and cowboy images (my speciality)....the ranch neighbors think i'm a lesbian because i wore alot of linen while living there!!) chocolate helps, kitties help, dogs help and exercise and prayer. i have chosen to just put my head down and plow on. hope this helps you........hang in there.......men aren't that important. you can reproduce without one actually living with you!!!! xoxoxo
Posted by noa on March 10, 2003, at 18:05:46
In reply to Worst fear realized . . . , posted by bozeman on March 10, 2003, at 1:12:22
((((Bozeman))))
I'm so sorry. It sounds awfully painful.
Where are you living now? What supports (in-person) do you have?
As for the painful feelings and depression--if you can keep in your mind that they are separate--that it is normal to feel painful feelings at a time like this, and doesn't have to mean depression (is this making any sense? I hope so)--that is important, I feel. And that the intense pain is now, but won't last forever.
Don't overanalyze your relationship history right now. There is time to do that after you get through the tough spot of grieving the loss. (I know, if you're like most of us, it is likely nearly impossible to resist the endless analysis of how you pick men, how your relationships go, etc., so at least when you find yourself doing it, see if you can assign less weight to your conclusions right now, like saying, "OK, I'm gonna leave this and come back to it another time. Right now I just need to get through this and get my equilibrium back.")
Do something TLC for yourself, consider it from your babble friends.
Posted by kazoo on March 11, 2003, at 5:50:12
In reply to Worst fear realized . . . , posted by bozeman on March 10, 2003, at 1:12:22
> My life sucks.
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Whose life doesn't suck the big one?
As far as interpersonal relationships go: find yourself another guy to fall in love with.
There's plenty of them out there. A dime a dozen, but I'm not talking about roses.
Love with the improper stranger never really works. It's better to be alone then wishing that you were.kazoo
Posted by Gracie2 on March 13, 2003, at 4:10:09
In reply to Interpersonal relationships » bozeman, posted by kazoo on March 11, 2003, at 5:50:12
I know you're in pain, but allow me to give you some perspective on this terrible time that you're going through right now.
Twenty years ago, I fell in love with a man who sounds JUST LIKE the person who is now torturing you because he seems so uncaring.
Guess what? This man you love is not hurting you on purpose. The truth is even worse; he's not thinking about your feelings AT ALL. You don't even exist for him. Your pain, your suffering, doesn't affect him in the least because he's not even thinking of you. He's so focused on his own wants and desires, any attempt you make to "win him back" will be considered, at worst, just pathetic. If he's a real asshole, he'll simply view your crying as a weakness he can use to get laid. While you're thinking that he must really love you after all! because he was so intense and the sex was so wonderful, in HIS mind he's congratulating himself for wringing one last blow-job out of you or even worse, he thinks that he's a saint for throwing you a mercy-f***.
I know this sounds awful, but I really am trying to help you. If you somehow convince this man to return and marry you, he'll feel trapped and he will come to resent you. He'll do whatever he wants, regardless of your feelings, and you'll spend your life in pain. You'll never "change" him, he will never be different. He'll find fault with whatever you do, no matter how hard you try.
Now that my husband is dumping me for a younger woman, I've been wandering around our house trying to figure out what I want to take with me into the "new life" I have to suddenly build for myself after 20 years of marriage. He has kindly offered to "let me" have my own car and whatever
furniture I want, because he wants the divorce to be "civil". Pretty low, right? No. This is low; in a very warm and concerned voice, he said, "Why should we make a couple of lawyers rich? You can have whatever you want, we don't have to fight this out in court. If you want the TV in the livingroom, you can have it. Just tell me what you want, and we can work it out."I stared at him in shock. We had been together for 20 years, and I had worked for 19 of those years, often supporting him while he went through college without a job. In 1986, I put down $16,000
of my own hard-earned money as a down-payment for our "dream house". He hated the house and, I guess, he hated me. I spent all those years in denial, thinking that if I loved him enough and tried hard enough, he would finally love me. It was useless.I can't even feel jealous of the woman he's chasing now. She has NO IDEA what kind of monster he can really be. As soon as he gets bored with her, she'll be tossed aside. While she's at home trying to iron his pants in the exact way that he's specified OVER and OVER, and what a moron she must be for not getting it right even after HE'S EXPLAINED IT TO HER TIME AFTER TIME, he's at a strip-bar tucking five-dollar bills into a gyrating bikini. Then he stumbles in at dawn, opens the refrigerator door to look for more beer
and notices a package of hamburger sitting there
that you obviously paid good money for, after he TOLD YOU to be more careful with money and only buy things on sale. That PROVES you're stupid and worthless, that you never listen to him, and he can't understand how he ever got saddled with such a sorry bitch.Think you could never lower yourself to this level? Just spend some time with the guy. He'll eventually convince you that he's sticking around as a huge favor, because you're such a loser that nobody else would have you.
Now that he's done with me, I'm looking around and trying to figure out what to take with me, and what to leave. I'm completely shattered and just like always, there is no sympathy. He has no feelings for me at all, he looks at me with the eyes of a reptile. After announcing that he wanted a divorce and never wanted to see me again, he happened to walk into the same room, a day later, and noticed that I was sitting in a chair bent over with my head in my hands. I had cried until I couldn't cry anymore, and I was just sitting there in shock with my hands over my face.
My husband said, "What's the matter? Do you have a headache?"
RUN. RUN. RUN.
-Gracie
Posted by syringachalet on March 13, 2003, at 5:24:25
In reply to Perspective, posted by Gracie2 on March 13, 2003, at 4:10:09
Hello Gracie,
I have had several friends who worked their butts off to put spouses through school so they could have a good paying job and their life together would be better.
When two of these friends spouses finished school and landed that good job they decided to find someone else to share their lives and their beds with.
Both of these friends were blown-away and finally sat down and figured out just how much of that spouses educational expenses they had provided and one asked for one-third and one asked for half. These women had basically worked two job( one 8 hrs outside their home and 6-8 hrs at home raising their families and keep their home.
The 'more educated' spouse was angry because they did not consider their education as a mutual/community property asset. I guess these two friends of mine figured that their marriage was supposed to be a partnership and this partership was dissolving. If they had had to borrow the money from a bank, there would have also been interest on the loan included.
Finally, they settled on the'more educated spouse' would pay the supporting spouse their half of what their current monthly living expenses were (utilities,child support,car payments, and each paying any credit card debit they had accumulated). This was to be for one calendar year and each was able to claim one of their two children for tax purposes.This was one way that the supporting spouse had enough to live on until they could figure out what they needed to do to go on after this 20 years of partnership/marriage.
It is unfornate that you are so right about considering a committed relationship with someone whom would treat you with such disrespect of your needs and feelings.
I think it would make me wonder if I would really wanted to spend the rest of my life with that person. And what kind of influence would that person have on any children you might bring into this world.Sounds like you got lots of things to think about....
Good luck and know we are thinking about you and really care.syringachalet
Posted by bozeman on March 14, 2003, at 1:24:31
In reply to Re: Perspective, posted by syringachalet on March 13, 2003, at 5:24:25
"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for Thou art with me; Thy rod and Thy staff, they comfort me. " Psalm 23:4 KJV
And with me He was, thankfully . . . I'm calling the "shadow of death" that dark, dark place in our minds we go to when we are most wounded and afraid. Mercifully, it didn't last long, only a couple of days, and I am certain that finding my path out of it was, in no small part, due to the prayers, support, warm thoughts, and cyber-hugs from all of you.
Absolutely exhausted . . . still very sick; went back to work too early (big mistake) and still paying the price. Will elaborate and respond more fully when I have more strength.
Thank you all, deeply, dearly, for your support through this "straw that broke the camel's back" event. I'll be back to my old self -- no, scratch that, I'll be better than my old self -- soon. Until then, Peace!!!
bozeman
Posted by syringachalet on March 14, 2003, at 11:42:02
In reply to Perspective on Fears, posted by bozeman on March 14, 2003, at 1:24:31
Dearest boze,
Trying to 'pick yourself up my your own boot straps' is a really tough thing to have to do...
Thankfully it doesnt have too often in our lives but I know from my own experiences that it was a growing up experience that I could have never learned in any school and one that will be useful for you in the years ahead.
My Irish grandmother, Ida Mae, always used to say...
"When God closes a door, he opens a window somewhere..."
Be gentle with yourself for a little while
longer and know that we all care about you,
Boze, and keep in touch on how things are going.
Cyberhug,if OK, your PSB buddy,syringachalet
Posted by Gracie2 on March 14, 2003, at 14:56:51
In reply to Re: Perspective on Fears, posted by syringachalet on March 14, 2003, at 11:42:02
Another thing that I am finding helpful for myself is to try and help others in pain. It gets your mind off your own problems for awhile, and it does seem to me, these days, that the more love you throw out there into the universe, the more love comes back to you, although not in ways that you would expect. As I've said before, true recovery is a spiritual matter, and I'm finding this to be a sort of cosmic law. To help me understand this, I've been listening to tapes and watching recorded talks of Wayne Dyer, and they've helped me to calm down, to not panic, at what I consider to be a dreadful situation. Maybe I need to go through this to be happy again someday, who knows.
Anyway, what I'm doing myself is trying to help my cousin. Her son also has bipolar disorder, and he's put her through hell. She owes thousands of dollars in medical bills and attorney's fees, and her son is in prison. At the same time, she's trying to care for her son's toddler and work full time and overtime at a physically demanding job (the little thing is a highway construction worker). She's depressed about her son, the breakup of her own common-law marriage (her partner couldn't take any more of her son's violence and mood swings), and the long and painful death of her beloved mother from colon cancer, another recent tragedy in her life.
She's afraid that anti-depressants will make her too tired to work at her job, so she won't take them. In fact, she's using meth-amphetamine just to give her the energy to get through the day, and I'm terrified for her. I don't think she knows how the stuff is made (one of the ingredients used in making "crank" is Draino - yep, drain cleaners caustic enough to unplug a clogged pipe)and what it can do to your body.
I do love her, and I want to help her out. I'm trying to educate her about bipolar disorder. Thankfully, her son has been properly diagnosed and is taking medication during his prison term.
I want to give her hope, to let her know that her son can live a normal life once he's out of prison, as long as he stays on his medication.I'm going to try and convince her that she's desperately depressed and in need of psychiatric help herself. Maybe I can talk her into getting the help she needs. Maybe you know somebody who needs help, too.
-God bless,
Gracie
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