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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 22 to 46 of 51. Go back in thread:
Posted by Racer on May 6, 2007, at 22:07:06
In reply to Re: The new T, posted by pfinstegg on May 6, 2007, at 18:10:36
> We got a 60% and a 64% at Second level, first and second., which got us a second and fifth place.
>Good job! And I know what you mean about sitting those big trots. Of course, it's a little different for us hunters... ;-)
Congratulations, Pfin. And congratulations on your good boy, too. I have a thing about big trots, so he sounds even better to me.
I'm not riding right now, but wish I were. It might help with some of my other problems...
Posted by pegasus on May 6, 2007, at 22:32:08
In reply to He threw me out of his office!, posted by pfinstegg on May 5, 2007, at 0:57:51
OMG! The worst possible therapy nightmare. It's almost unbelievable, but of course, I do believe you. You always seemed to have such a good T . . . it's so shocking.
I am so sorry that you had to go through this. And I'm glad that you were able to come up with the courage to see a new T, and that he seems to be good, and is helping.
Please keep us posted. Did you really have no warning at all? And no further explanation? It does seem as though he must have become terribly unstable for some reason.
peg
Posted by annierose on May 6, 2007, at 22:33:56
In reply to Re: annierose, posted by pfinstegg on May 6, 2007, at 18:40:23
It happened in late February and we have since worked past it. My e-mails to Daisy and talking to my daughter's psychologist for a therapist point-of-view (as she is also a professor where my t went to school) helped me move forward.
With time the intensity of my feelings have subsided and it seems silly now thinking about how angry I became. I had just returned from a vacation and my t canceled 2 appointments and couldn't reschedule a request I made prior to leaving (i.e. 3 appointments went away). It wasn't a great way to start the appointment, so I sulked a bit and became quiet. I said something like, "I feel like you are pushing me away." And her reply felt cold to me, "It's not about you."
The ensuing appointments were tense as she attacked (in my opinion) my disposition as hostile and angry. I was being quiet and reflective wondering, "I missed you, didn't you miss me? And now I'm going to miss 3 appointment within the next 2 weeks ..." She didn't hear that. She kept saying, "I need you to be able to step back and see what is happening isn't about me, it's about your past." We went in circles for a couple of sessions. After I went to speak to my daughter's therapist, a calm came over me. I'm not sure it was what she said, but how she listened and acknowledged that therapist are people too - they have bad days, bad moments, or say things that come out differently than intended. Most of all, she encouraged me to continue the dialogue without necessarily bringing the topic up at the next session, to give it a rest (which was the same advice Daisy had given to me as well).
The next time I saw her there had been a beautiful snowfall. I told her all about my son (who is 8) and his delight in the giant snowflakes. I smiled as he rushed outside in his pj's soaking up the wonder of it all. It disarmed my t in such a way that we were able to talk about our rupture in a more constructive manner.
Funny, thinking about some of the things she said and I said - bring back more details that I had forgotten. She mentioned that maybe it's time for us to give the analysis a rest, maybe I should seek an outside consultation. At one session I thought she was telling me she couldn't work with me, but later I realized I misunderstood what she had said. WOW - it was a complete mess.
The bright spot that came from that --- she wanted me to trust her with all of my thoughts, especially the ones I think but do not say. She encouraged me to free associate, to really do it. Of course she had asked this in the past; now I thought I needed to prove to myself and her that I was capable of this seemingly easy and awkward task. And I'm trying, I really am.
Are you sorry you asked?
Posted by pfinstegg on May 7, 2007, at 7:36:01
In reply to Re: annierose » pfinstegg, posted by annierose on May 6, 2007, at 22:33:56
Not at all! It's a wonderful example of "rupture and repair", if I understand you. And now you are moving more deeply into free association. Even though my own experience ended so badly, there were nearly four years which were very deep and meaningful- both because of the daring to free associate, and because of the interactions between us. I know I got a lot out of those good years.
Posted by pfinstegg on May 7, 2007, at 7:51:36
In reply to Re: He threw me out of his office!, posted by pegasus on May 6, 2007, at 22:32:08
There must have been something going on , but I didn't have any sense of it. I thought I was doing well- going much more deeply into me; earlier in the analysis, I had gotten really angry at him from time to time, but that wasn't happening when the rupture occurred. I do think he kind of broke down, temporarily. My new T said that in a good analysis, the T is supposed to feel the unconscious feelings of the patient- that's important- but NOT, of course, act on them. Acting on them makes the T just like the old parents; reflecting on them, and acting in a new, empathic way provides us with the new experience we are all in need of.
As I get over the shock of what happened, I must admit that I miss the empathic, caring and humorous parts of the old T. But I did have them for four years. There's no going back, now.
Posted by pfinstegg on May 7, 2007, at 7:57:29
In reply to I'm impressed! » pfinstegg, posted by Racer on May 6, 2007, at 22:07:06
Thanks, Racer! The riding was just a life-saver during these past months. Even when I was at my worst, my horse provided a couple of hours of love and comfort every time I could make myself drive to the barn.
Posted by susan47 on May 10, 2007, at 0:52:39
In reply to Re: annierose, posted by pfinstegg on May 6, 2007, at 18:40:23
What a terrible experience this once-beloved T put you through. I feel so sad you had to go through this, and so happy for you that you now have a new, great therapist. Sounds like the last one had a mental or emotional breakdown, or maybe he was self-medicating and had a psychotic break of his very own? I feel so sorry for him, you know, in addition to feeling glad for you, I feel sad for him if he doesn't get professional help. I think, I really hope for everyone's sake, that your new T steps up to the plate and does the right thing, what he knows he should do to protect all this old T's clients present and future, maybe even past. Who knows how often this may have happened with him in the past???
Posted by pfinstegg on May 10, 2007, at 8:45:32
In reply to Re: annierose » pfinstegg, posted by susan47 on May 10, 2007, at 0:52:39
All the points you made are so important. I hadn't yet said a word that day, although I was feeling a lot of painful aloneness (my own past). He seemed to me to be acting in a near-psychotic manner. I think it's hard to get help/support when you are a senior analyst= much easier when you are young.
Of course, initially, I thought there was something awful about me that had caused it. But my husband and new analyst both have been stressing to me that that is not the case. Despite the panful ending, I constantly feel homesick for the nearly four years when he was so great.
Even though the new one is the head of the analytic institute here, I think it's a very gray area as to whether he could make suggestions to the old analyst about getting supervision or help. Everything that happened is so private- and it's really hearsay, which he could easily deny. He also could say that I am psychotic (he actually did say that to me), and can't be trusted. I do suspect that if it happened to me, it's happened to others, too- or is happening. Possibly other people go away and are never heard from again in the analytic community. I feel very sorry for him, too (when I'm not feeling sorry for myself), as he was really wonderful when he was functioning well.
The good thing is that I am doing OK with my new analyst. Thanks for your thoughts!
Posted by susan47 on May 11, 2007, at 1:39:18
In reply to Re: what happened, posted by pfinstegg on May 10, 2007, at 8:45:32
I know for a fact just from reading these boards, that people absolutely do get traumatized by their "therapy" and then disappear. But I don't think it's so much the therapist's fault, necessarily, as a huge flaw in the system itself. I suspect the challenges a therapist faces are absolutely immense and the entire system, I suspect, just isn't responsible enough in policing itself to prevent this type of thing happening .. if we weren't so bloody hung up, as a society, on the theory of love and the so-called damage it can do, if we didn't see love as a powerful method of controlling others from a few really bad examples, if we weren't so damn paranoid .. well, how do you get from here to there? What should the end result of every therapy relationship look like? Who's policing the results?
There simply aren't enough practical checks and balances for the protection of everyone .. and because human emotion can make people frail and volatile we're all afraid of it.
And our paranoia makes everyone sick, really really soul-sick. We should all be helping each other, not condemning ourselves for our healthy feelings.
Posted by pfinstegg on May 11, 2007, at 21:14:59
In reply to Re: what happened, posted by pfinstegg on May 10, 2007, at 8:45:32
I see why he is running everything! He has a very calm, empathic demeanor- calmer than the first one. He doesn't direct anything, but is really helping me process the grief I have been feeling about the collapse of the first therapy relationship. He is also very flexible; when I said that I would start to get worried when he was quiet that he, too, didn't want me in the office, he looked at me and said, really sincerely, " I haven't had any thought like that, but I am very glad you told me that you needed more responsiveness from me." Then he was more responsive! I cry buckets, and leave with swollen eyes and smeared/no makeup, but I'm so glad I found him. It is starting to really feel right and hopeful.
Posted by antigua on May 12, 2007, at 5:57:19
In reply to The new analyst is really good!, posted by pfinstegg on May 11, 2007, at 21:14:59
I am so glad you are starting to feel so good about your new analyst. I was so shocked by what happened to you and felt very, very badly for you. I wish I had pearls of wisdom to help you, but you seem to have found a strong way to deal with it.
best,
antigua
Posted by pfinstegg on May 12, 2007, at 9:23:36
In reply to Re: The new analyst is really good! » pfinstegg, posted by antigua on May 12, 2007, at 5:57:19
Thank you, Antigua. In a better world, one wouldn't have to go to one T to recover from what another T has done. But he allows me to do whatever I feel I need to do, and pointed out that I'm also working on earlier rejections simultaneously- without specifically identifying them. The old T, while an analyst also, was, in a subtle way, quite directive- this one isn't at all. I like that a lot.
Posted by rubenstein on May 12, 2007, at 12:14:56
In reply to I am so sorry. » pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on May 5, 2007, at 9:33:09
I am so sorry about what happened to you. That must have been awful. You showed such strength in your handling of the situation. It just makes me so mad that he treated you like that. He definetly must have had some issues going on himself. Again, I am thinking of you. I am glad that you like your new anaylist.
take care of yourself,
rachel
Posted by Daisym on May 12, 2007, at 21:11:03
In reply to The new analyst is really good!, posted by pfinstegg on May 11, 2007, at 21:14:59
I'm glad you found someone who suits you and can help you through this crisis. I imagine processing this must have some of the similiar elements I'm always working with: "Why?" and "How could he?" It rattles me to think of you so distraught and sick for months.
My favorite thing about my therapist is his ability to exude calm. Rarely does he "catch" my anxiety - which is so great! I'm sure you really need that right now. I'm curious about the younger age states and where they've gone in all of this. I know you are working hard to not regress right now, so are they completely undercover?
Mostly I want to say I'm glad you are happy with the help you've found.
Posted by pfinstegg on May 12, 2007, at 21:58:18
In reply to Re: The new analyst is really good! » pfinstegg, posted by Daisym on May 12, 2007, at 21:11:03
Thank you, Daisy. I've been wondering about the younger states, myself. I am really just getting to know the new analyst- and he me- but it seems that he doesn't put so much emphasis on identifying what part might be predominant at any given moment. I think he just feels that they are all there all the time. He seems to want most of all that I know that he is really listening, and will be responsive and caring. I think he assumes that all my parts are always there, expressing themselves as part of me. I don't feel that any part of me, or any feelings or thoughts, are being ignored. I really adored the other analyst, but he really did become destructive suddenly. I think this one is in fact more helpful- certainly wonderful about helping me process what happened with the first one. We aren't yet at the point where I feel able to tell him about my own abuse issues with any detail or feeling (he does know about them), but it's getting better all the time.
I love the picture of you in a pink suit and pink high heels, meeting what might be a good guy- notwithstanding the spilled coffee! I hope you feel like following up on that. If you do, tell us!
Posted by muffled on May 12, 2007, at 22:12:42
In reply to Re: The new analyst is really good! » Daisym, posted by pfinstegg on May 12, 2007, at 21:58:18
pfinstegg, you are SO kind about other T that went bad.
I think I would be so pissed. But then I don't gotta a history w/him....dunno. I admire at how your handling this and SO glad you got a good new T.
Best of luck to you.
Muffled
Posted by pfinstegg on May 12, 2007, at 22:17:19
In reply to Re: I am so sorry., posted by rubenstein on May 12, 2007, at 12:14:56
Thank you, Rachel. I appreciate your caring so much. I do think the first analyst had some pretty serious issues of his own, which I inadvertently caused to flare up. He suddenly began taking out a lot of rage on me. It is amazing to me that someone so well-known and highly thought of, could have something like that going on, and not take the steps he needed to take to resolve them. I honestly think I can't be the only patient to have had difficulty with him. I'm not provocative, hostile or abusive- more on the anxious and terrified of rejection side of things. I certainly did get angry at him, at times- but it was only very occasionally. I do hope I haven't frightened anyone by telling what happened to me. I know everyone has worries about being rejected by their Ts at times, but,mostly, it never happens- the opposite does.
The good thing is that there is a very calm, experienced and caring new analyst in the picture now.
Posted by pfinstegg on May 12, 2007, at 22:28:03
In reply to Aaaaannnddd..., posted by muffled on May 12, 2007, at 22:12:42
Muffy, I'm just like anyone else- pissed as h*ll one minute, and heartbroken the next. And I keep struggling not to feel that it's all my fault. The new T is very understanding and helpful with everything, so the painful feelings are all calming down- slowly, but they are. The new T is very professional, but I can see that he is shocked and distressed by what happened. I know now that they are both long-term close colleagues and FRIENDS! But the new analyst has definitely put the stress and trauma I endured first. He's definitely let me know that what I am feeling is what counts to him. This is so healing and re-assuring.
Posted by Daisym on May 12, 2007, at 22:50:39
In reply to Re: The new analyst is really good! » Daisym, posted by pfinstegg on May 12, 2007, at 21:58:18
Perhaps it doesn't matter what part is feeling what right now -- all of you is in shock. I tend to fragment when there is conflict among feeling states, particularly the self-blame stuff.
I think it would bother me to know they are friends - I'd want to ask questions or see if I could get answers about what happened or how he was now - or particularly is there remorse or sadness on his side? Perhaps in time those answers will come, if you need them.
And no, I haven't followed up on the potential date as of yet. I'm still pretty red faced. My therapist laughed, long and hard -- and then said "call him." Sheesh. I'm too old for this. It brings up a whole slew of feelings that I haven't had to contend with for awhile.
Posted by pfinstegg on May 12, 2007, at 23:25:48
In reply to Re: The new analyst is really good! » pfinstegg, posted by Daisym on May 12, 2007, at 22:50:39
Strangely, even though I'm curious, I know I'll never find out why it happened. It's undoubtedly a secret from his colleagues (and most importantly, probably from himself)- they would be as shocked as my new analyst is, as he has the reputation of being very empathic, looked up to by the younger analysts, an excellent training analyst, etc. To complicate matters, my husband (and me by extension), my old analyst AND my new analyst all belong to a club here in the city for people who have contributed something to their particular fields. There's lots of musical and lecture evenings, dances and lunch and dinner tables with particular discussion topics. The old analyst runs a table on classical literature; my husband runs one on naturalist topics.
We are all there pretty often! Help! I feel like moving to a new city! I've kept my maiden name, so neither one of them knew what my husband's name was, and I had to make sure they both knew, so they wouldn't show up next to us for lunch or dinner! All the boundaries seem to take a lot of work to keep in place. One time my old analyst sat down next to my husband for dinner, and they had a long conversation about all sorts of things. Well, you can see I have an unusual situation! Right now, I don't want to know anything. Really, I do know- it's very painful for him also- he said so in a letter. It's not what he wanted or planned to have happen- it just happened, somehow.Well now, Daisy! There's no hurry about the guy, and of course it's very, very hard to start dating after being married and raising a family. I think those are pretty scary, uncharted waters for everyone. I gather, though, that although you have his card, he doesn't have yours.
Posted by Fallsfall on May 20, 2007, at 7:46:18
In reply to Re: The new analyst is really good! » Daisym, posted by pfinstegg on May 12, 2007, at 23:25:48
Pfinstegg,
We often think that our therapist is the only one who could possibly help us - the only one who really understands us. I know I felt that way about my first therapist. I couldn't imagine life without her. But your story shows (so clearly) that not only can we live without our therapist, but that sometimes things can be (dare I say) even better with someone else. There IS life after [fill in the name of your favorite therapist]. And it can be a pretty good life.
Thanks for reminding us.
Falls
Posted by Dinah on May 20, 2007, at 10:17:12
In reply to Re: The new analyst is really good! » Daisym, posted by pfinstegg on May 12, 2007, at 23:25:48
I have to say, you're taking this in such a very healthy way. I can't imagine ever taking it anywhere near as well.
Posted by twinleaf on May 21, 2007, at 2:21:12
In reply to Re: The new analyst is really good!, posted by Fallsfall on May 20, 2007, at 7:46:18
Falls, if I remember correctly, you went to a woman therapist for about eight years, to whom you were very attached, but with whom there were some problems, too. Then you forced yourself out of that relationship, and made a very thorough search for a new one (how you did it is the Babble standard!), found a great male therapist- and then began to make a huge amount of progress- library degree and job, much more self-esteem (I hope I'm really talking about you, and not someone else).
I am beginning to see, now, that there were problems in my relationship with the first analyst. He was sort of seductive- not sexually- but in getting me to be extremely attached to him, and in kind of over-emphasizing my weak areas. The relatively healthy, well-functioning areas just weren't part of it. And there were far too many boundary crossings- he told me too much about his own life and feelings. I know that SOME boundary crossings are considered very important, but I think there were far too many in that relationship.
I'm feeling a little disoriented, having changed my name from Pfinstegg to twinleaf because of a problem in re-registering, but I hope I won't seem like a stranger.
The new analyst is very calm and attentive. At first, I thought he was a bit flat, but I think he was listening hard, and trying to decide if he could be helpful to me. Then, I think he decided that he could be, and the relationship began to form; I think it's going to be a much more balanced one.
There was a lovely boundary crossing when he left for a two-week vacation last Friday. He said, "I'll miss you."
Posted by Dinah on May 21, 2007, at 12:22:51
In reply to Re: The new analyst is really good! » Fallsfall, posted by twinleaf on May 21, 2007, at 2:21:12
Not the sexual sort, no. But I think it would be an interesting separate topic.
Posted by twinleaf on May 22, 2007, at 16:08:25
In reply to Seductiveness in therapy on part of therapist, posted by Dinah on May 21, 2007, at 12:22:51
I agree, Dinah. Everyone, including therapists, are different in the intensity of their needs to be loved, depended upon, thought special, even thought to be sexy. One, in a way, enters a minefield of these needs when you see a therapist- both your own and theirs; you just hope and trust that you will be safe there, and be enabled to grow- that they are mature enough to recognize their own countertransferences and deal with them in a manner that will allow for that. What happened to me is, not just a huge shock to me, but a real and continuing shock to my new therapist, He's helping me a lot with it though. Things are much better than they were a few months ago.
About that phone: you've been such a faithful, hard-working and reliable client- you are not at all demanding- but i would say: ask him to turn off the **** thing!
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