![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 18 to 42 of 54. Go back in thread:
Posted by Seeking Peace on September 23, 2006, at 13:05:46
In reply to Re: Rambling (up to Thurs.) ***trigger? » ElaineM, posted by Lindenblüte on September 23, 2006, at 12:25:49
I too would have to agree with Lindenblüte... the first thing that came to my mind is "RUN"....
I've been reading the boards a bit for a while now but hadn't registered. So I've been reading for a bit but decided to register today so I could respond to you. I hope this shows to you that people care, people that you don't even know of or see.
I know you don't feel the emotions but I feel them for you. I feel anger, not at you, but at him. He is a predator. What he is doing is NOT theraputic. He is like Lindenblüte said, "anti support". I know you say he is your only support right now and it's better than nothing...but this support is too dangerous...not really support if it's dangerous, right? Can you contact your Lady Doc? Things with this T seem to be getting worse and you really need some support to get out of this. You are a wonderful person, I"ve seen that through your support of others here. Know that there are people that care.... I am scared for you. What he's doing is not Ok at all.
Thinking of you...
Posted by caraher on September 23, 2006, at 14:39:45
In reply to Rambling (up to Thurs.) ***trigger?, posted by ElaineM on September 23, 2006, at 10:27:19
So what happend Friday?
It's very disturbing that he would denigrate the help you'd received in the past. Once again, he's manipulating you, making you feel ever-more dependent on him and him alone. Even were it true that nobody else would help you (I'm very skeptical of that claim!) there's no good purpose served by telling you. The only thing that does is make you feel bad and more dependent on him. Which seems to be his goal, rather than actually helping you.
Also, it's clear that regardless of how "innocent" his touching may be compared to more flagrantly assaultive acts, you are not comfortable with it and he shouldn't do it. That's just basic respect for human dignity!
Please keep posting, El! (((El))) And just as you "dress better than you feel," try to act better than you feel as well and insist, at the very minimum, that he stop making you feel even more isolated from the rest of humanity and refrain from unwanted touching!
Posted by Poet on September 24, 2006, at 11:42:20
In reply to Rambling (up to Thurs.) ***trigger?, posted by ElaineM on September 23, 2006, at 10:27:19
Hi Elaine,
I'm with the others: run and don't look back. I think he's taking advantage of your vulnerability. His line that no other T would be willing to work with you, that LadyT is using you for information is a load of B.S. He is the one who is using you. He has power over you and he's using it to get what he wants, not what you need from a therapist.
Run!
((((((Elaine)))))))
Poet
Posted by muffled on September 24, 2006, at 17:21:34
In reply to Rambling (up to Thurs.) ***trigger?, posted by ElaineM on September 23, 2006, at 10:27:19
But where, how?
Where is she to go?
I need to be able to have something to tell El besides run.
Sometimes I run.
Blindly.
But I end up in trouble, or I scare my family, or myself or allof it...
I want to run now.
But,
I dunno.
RUN.
Its not so easy.
Not easy to be safe.
Run, such a short word. So easy to do. So hard.
Take care El. Please keep trying and trying to find outside sources of help. Its there. I KNOW its there. You just gonna have to find it.
Muffled
Posted by ElaineM on September 24, 2006, at 20:39:24
In reply to Re: Rambling (up to Thurs.) ***trigger?, posted by Seeking Peace on September 23, 2006, at 13:05:46
Seeking Peace: I'm sorry it's taken me so long to respond, but the "new" ED medical thing has been bad and I can't think at all. But I was so touched that you said you registered to show that others care. Thank you :') ( and you have a lovely name)
There is more to the story (from Friday) which is relevant.... I just can't see him as a predator. I've written out what happened but I don't think it's proper to put on the board. I've been meaning to try and re-write it but I just can't concentrate right now from being in so much pain. But I feel like I'm holding a piece of the story back and that you all deserve to know cause it may change people's opinion.
I can't contact LadyDoc because I can't use campus services in any way now -- not even email. Plus, she told me before (even when I was still seeing her) that I can't use email cause of confidentiality and internet security and stuff I can't remember.
I am dying to know what LadyT really thinks of me. But I couldn't mention any of this to her because she would just ask, "Why don't you talk to T about this?". She knows I'm seeing him, knows who he is, and I don't know how I'd explain anything to her with mentioning all this stuff. And I think that before she talked to me about more then my medical problems and quick generic updates, she'd want to talk to T to make sure it was OK. Plus, I'm a little scared of her right now for some reason. :'( I'm too backed into a corner.
I've been in so much pain this weekend and I'm going to have to go back Monday cause these are dangerous symptoms. I'm just soooo spent. I really have nothing left. I've been surprised that I've tried as much as I have already.
I will try and post the Friday update when I can but whenever my body is in trouble my mind turns off. Plus, I've been having a really hard time with some of the mental stuff coming up lately. I'll see what they do with me tomorrow. I always terrified that they'll keep me, but also want to just collapse and die there. It's all too much now. And I'm hoping that CC (or other place) will email me tomorrow.
It helps to know that others care. You didn't have to say so, and it means alot.
ELps. i can only handle making one post now and was going to go in order but LL's wouldn't show up on my computer. Sorry Li, I didn't want to seem rude.
Posted by caraher on September 25, 2006, at 10:20:30
In reply to I'm slow now *trig? » Seeking Peace, posted by ElaineM on September 24, 2006, at 20:39:24
(((El)))
I understand why you're intimidated by Lady T given the fact that she referred you to your current T.
Maybe you should just start fresh... just pick a T's name out of a hat, so there's no connection back to T or Lady T. Tell your story, making it clear you don't want to reveal any names. (While they may have an obligation to report misconduct, they can't make you tell them anything you don't want to!) You could certainly set up a single appointment like you did with CC without terminating your existing meetings with T.
Though I still think that even if you continue to meet with your T, it should be done with the understanding that he no longer acts as your therapist. I think the mess is hard on both of you, and you need someone whose focus is on your needs and not some mix of yours and his.
Posted by happyflower on September 25, 2006, at 15:16:52
In reply to Re: I'm slow now *trig?, posted by caraher on September 25, 2006, at 10:20:30
(((((elaine))))
I really don't know what to say, but I want you to know that I am thinking about your situation, and I just don't know what to do.
Your T isn't doing you right, but yet if he is your only support system, I can see why you wouldn't want to leave. I am worried about you, please try to seek out some other help in the meantime.
Posted by ElaineM on September 25, 2006, at 18:12:51
In reply to Re: Rambling (up to Thurs.) ***trigger? » ElaineM, posted by Poet on September 24, 2006, at 11:42:20
They told me to come in tomorrow instead!! This is effed up!! How does anyone get help or recover from anything at all?! Wait more, it's easy for them to say. It must feel different being a doctor yourself, you get to be on the inside, you have some control over how you're treated, with how you're thought of at least. :'( And it's so hard to get places day after day. I can't move that much! I can't express how much I hate myself for creating this latest problem. I thought it was saving me at the time, but the anorexia killed me. I'm sorry for ranting but I can't help it.
I got an email from CC this morning which said that she can't do stuff for me anymore, and can't make calls on my behalf or anything like that because she's not allowed. She can't "treat" me because I'm not a student and not under their coverage, and she can't email me socially (which I wasn't even asking) cause it's not appropriate. I knew that. I was just grasping at straws. She said to wait to see if the other Help Place returns my message but it's been several days -- if a crisis line was gonna ever get back to me, they would've done it by now. At least my pain is distracting a little from all this other cr@p. Though I do often panic cause I worry that no one is here to take care of me. I worry about fainting or falling or being too weak to get up. I didn't even go to my session today. T sounded concerned. I have a first meeting with a new physician next Monday and he said he wants to go with me, and he would wait out in the waiting room. He always really wants to go, but for some reason I always chicken-out and go alone. I can't think that far ahead.
I sometimes can see how some of the things T says can seem predatory but I also wonder if he may just want to look out for me. Not want me to find myself alone without any T to take me. I am afraid more than anything to lose this other human who would help me as I'm sick. I know that if I called him at home and said, "I need your help right now." that he would come right away. Unless he was with his sons or taking care of something important with his ex. If I said, "Take me to the hospital right now" I'm sure he'd drop anything. And that's all I want. I've watched too many family members die and I will not do that alone. My real family does not even count because I would not let them see me in a hospital -- not that they'd come to help. That was my job. They do not get to pretend to love me at the last minute so they can believe that they are not monsters. I've watched it happen that way before. (I'm not saying I'm dying right now, at least they don't think so, but I still think of it often)
Muff, when I read the title of you're response I wanted to cry and say Exactly. It is hard to hear Run cause I think you need either strength of mind, or strength of body to do so. You do not need both, but you MUST have at least one of those to lean on. Don't feel bad though. You do not need to help more than you are. I'm just sorry that I can't do anything other than appoligize for not feeling like I can do anything else.
I worry that he could read here, not because I think he would get angry first, but more that it would sadden him that he trusted me so much, and I went and turned around and shared everything with the internet. I wouldn't want to hurt him. Plus I am used to making sure others are not angry or sad. I just want to get through the week. I always make a bargain with myself that if only my body can make it through all this I'll be okay with living with whatever other sh*t comes my way. If I have my body, I can tolerate anything else. I don't know. It is soooo hard with both mind and body at once.
blove you all, EL
Posted by muffled on September 25, 2006, at 18:25:39
In reply to responses to Rambing **trig?, posted by ElaineM on September 25, 2006, at 18:12:51
Thanks for the update El.
Hope appts. go ok.
I guess could you ask your T if he knows any T's (esp female) that are taking clients?
Mebbe he doesn't know any?
He shouldn't feel threatened cuz its him thats trying to push the boundaries of the T relationship.
And he should understand that sometimes a woman just wants to talk to another woman, and not a man.
Its not like you would be dumping him at all. You couyld still be friends, but w/o the complications of him being your T as well.
But mebbe this has alrerady been discussed and I've forgotten it.
Sorry if so.
Take care El, You been trying so hard I know, keep it up as best you can, and rest when you need to.
Seems in this dumb world thats its the squeeky wheel that gets oiled......
Not neccessarily the one most needing it......
Wish you could have someone more neutral to advocate for you. At least you would have some help finding help.
(((((EL))))))
Muffled
Posted by Lindenblüte on September 25, 2006, at 18:43:17
In reply to responses to Rambing **trig?, posted by ElaineM on September 25, 2006, at 18:12:51
hi elaine,
I'm sorry if I came across too strongly in my previous post to you.Let's pretend like you had no T at this point.
What would you do?
You are feeling ill, so you are going to see different doctors. Can you ask the doctor for a referral? Tell them that you are having a hard time dealing with all the stress from your health problems, and that you'd like to have someone you can talk about this with.
They may ask you if you are currently in therapy. You can honestly say NO. you are seeing a guy in a therapists office, but you're not getting therapy.
Ask them for the names of any colleagues that they have who might do psychotherapy- tell them that you'd especially like to work with a woman. That your last therapist was a man, and that it was a very uncomfortable experience. I'm sure that you could express this in a way that would not make it seem that your therapist was abusive in any way.
Another option would be to do cold calls: find nearby Ts and go to an interview. Tell them what your problems are. You needn't give away the identity of your current T or your T's in the past. You can say that you're trying to start fresh, and that you need someone with a different perspective on your problems. If they are unwilling to help, ask THEM for a referral to a colleague who is willing to take on tough cases. Sometimes being a challenge is not a liability. Sometimes a challenging case is really satisfying for therapists.
If your health problems are really severe right now, a lot of hospitals and healthcare providers can offer you occupational therapy and counselling to help you get through tough illnesses.
Don't give up hope. You have a lot of options. You are young, and your body might feel broken, but you will heal. Believe it or not, you sound a little stronger in this last post than you have in a while. So, whatever you're doing, keep it up.
As always I wish the best for you, and I'm sorry if I was harsh before. My emotions are kind of coltish right now. A little unrestrained, you know?
gentle cyber fluffies,
-Li
Posted by Seeking Peace on September 25, 2006, at 19:52:59
In reply to responses to Rambing **trig?, posted by ElaineM on September 25, 2006, at 18:12:51
I too am sorry if I came across harshly. I can only imagine how difficult it must be for you. I wish I could do somethingbut I did say a prayer for you today, for you to have strength both physically and mentally. try to not give up.
Hugs
Posted by ElaineM on September 26, 2006, at 14:35:59
In reply to Re: responses to Rambing **trig? » ElaineM, posted by muffled on September 25, 2006, at 18:25:39
Thanks Muff.
>>>>And he should understand that sometimes a woman just wants to talk to another woman, and not a man.
You see, I thought he understood that. Before our relationship changed (and he actually seemed excessively distant and cold before), we spent alot of time talking about how important it was for me to be able to hear from LadyT every now and then. And moreso, how terribly significant it was that I could trust LadyDoc and allow her to touch me, considering all the medical stuff I'm going through. Up until the anorexia, I avoided doctors like the plague. I never went -- would deny I was sick, because when my sis and i were growing up we used to get in trouble when we were physically ill. We'd get in so much sh*t if we threw up, or needed to be taken places, esp. the hospital. But I was often not taken for help until something was way out of hand and required a trip to Emerg instead of the doctors. The docs at ER used to joke that they'd put a sign out with my name on it to reserve my family a parking spot, because every winter I ended up on the ped. floor. I was there at Christmas once and even got a present from my nurse. When I got older we used to just get laughed at or insulted if we were sick. Once I remember my sis had a fever of like 102.5 and she fell down the stairs cause she was so weak and they both laughed at her. They even refused to believe that I was AN, even when first scary/angry-womanPdoc forced me to have them in to see her and SHE explained it all. She was like, "She's going to die. How can you not notice?" And they turned to me and kept trying to get me to just admit that I was only on drugs instead. ....anyways, I ramble....
Plus, I've refused to let male doctors touch me since I was forced to ER once when I was emaciated for the first time. A male student was allowed to do my exams (humiliating ED exams) infront of two others, and I was so ashamed. I have a not-nice history too. So to let a physician touch me and not think of other worse things, was a big deal.
He had always said that he understood that, and that he wasn't in competition with female professionals from my past. He said that he KNEW I needed a positive female figure to learn to not be afraid of. HE SAID HE GOT IT :"( I guess not though. I don't know.
>>>>> its him thats trying to push the boundaries of the T relationship.
I'm not using this as an excuse, but he doesn't see it like this. He honestly sees it as a 50/50 split. He said that I kept on and on at him, letting him know that I wasn't benifitting from the "regular" way. I've told him many times since that I didn't mean he had to change everything. Honestly, all I remember saying was that I wished he could seem more like LadyT to me. But she was NOT like this. Obviously. I really just wanted him to do the same mirroring as her, and not speak with so much fluff. Like, repeating my words verbatum in his responses, or saying all the stock phrases. I even told him to please just say nothing at all. Just listen, if he was only gonna act like a textbook. I'm not saying LadyT wasn't "by the book" or didn't have boundaries. She was, and did, but she pulled it all off while still seeming like a "regular person" with genuine concern and feelings. This is something else entirely.
You know, when I look back at her now from this vantage point, she does seem a bit cold. And that makes me really sad. I wouldn't have noticed that before if I wasn't so "used" to the way T acts now. I hope with all my heart that she didn't just see me as a plant she was experimenting on. I could not withstand hearing that his view of her was true.
But then, I do want an IRL friend more than anything.....I'm afraid I'm asking for both things at once....I don't know. The more I try and think my way through everything, the more confused I end up. :(blove, EL
Posted by muffled on September 26, 2006, at 23:23:33
In reply to past female helpers » muffled, posted by ElaineM on September 26, 2006, at 14:35:59
> >>>>And he should understand that sometimes a woman just wants to talk to another woman, and not a man.
>
> You see, I thought he understood that. Before our relationship changed (and he actually seemed excessively distant and cold before), we spent alot of time talking about how important it was for me to be able to hear from LadyT every now and then. And moreso, how terribly significant it was that I could trust LadyDoc and allow her to touch me, considering all the medical stuff I'm going through. Up until the anorexia, I avoided doctors like the plague.***Thanks for the explanation WHY. You do understand you had a severely dysfunctional childhood? Your parents behavior was horrible. That is NOT what parents are supposed to act like. They are supposed to nurture and cherish their children, not laugh at them...
> Plus, I've refused to let male doctors touch me since I was forced to ER once when I was emaciated for the first time. A male student was allowed to do my exams (humiliating ED exams) infront of two others, and I was so ashamed. I have a not-nice history too. So to let a physician touch me and not think of other worse things, was a big deal.***Sorrry ((((((El)))))))
>
> He had always said that he understood that, and that he wasn't in competition with female professionals from my past. He said that he KNEW I needed a positive female figure to learn to not be afraid of. HE SAID HE GOT IT :"( I guess not though. I don't know.***So WILL he help you find a female T?
>
> >>>>> its him thats trying to push the boundaries of the T relationship.
>
> I'm not using this as an excuse, but he doesn't see it like this. He honestly sees it as a 50/50 split. He said that I kept on and on at him, letting him know that I wasn't benifitting from the "regular" way. I've told him many times since that I didn't mean he had to change everything. Honestly, all I remember saying was that I wished he could seem more like LadyT to me. But she was NOT like this. Obviously. I really just wanted him to do the same mirroring as her, and not speak with so much fluff. Like, repeating my words verbatum in his responses, or saying all the stock phrases. I even told him to please just say nothing at all. Just listen, if he was only gonna act like a textbook. I'm not saying LadyT wasn't "by the book" or didn't have boundaries. She was, and did, but she pulled it all off while still seeming like a "regular person" with genuine concern and feelings. This is something else entirely.***I think your T proly DOES wish you well. I think he DOES care for you. But I'm not sure he is mentally well at this time......mebbe he is not thinking right. We all know how messed up in our heads we can get....so I don't think your T is necc. BAD. I just think he could use some outside help himself.
YOU can't help him by yourself, he needs a professional to help him.
>
> You know, when I look back at her now from this vantage point, she does seem a bit cold. And that makes me really sad. I wouldn't have noticed that before if I wasn't so "used" to the way T acts now. I hope with all my heart that she didn't just see me as a plant she was experimenting on. I could not withstand hearing that his view of her was true.***El you are sweet, I don't think could not have liked you. Sometimes the boundaries can come across as coldness, but they are there to protect both client and T. They are very important to a good theraputic relationship.
> But then, I do want an IRL friend more than anything.....I'm afraid I'm asking for both things at once....I don't know. The more I try and think my way through everything, the more confused I end up. :(
***I think your T CAN be your friend, as longt as he doesn't harass you. He cannot be a T AND your friend however. I don't beleive that is possible.
I think, given the peeks you have given us of your family history, that you need a good, objective, strong boundaried-but kind, woman T. I think esp. with your history and your sweetness, that a T would NEED strong boundaries to be able to survive and best be able to help you thru your pain.
I have learned ALOT with my T, bout how I think of stuff, and why I react the way I do bout stuff. And its helped me lots. Even the struggles with my T have been learning experiences. So you can achieve these gains too.
So keep searching, and searching for that T.
She's out there.
Take care El,
Muffled
Posted by ElaineM on September 27, 2006, at 17:38:20
In reply to Re: past female helpers » ElaineM, posted by muffled on September 26, 2006, at 23:23:33
My T told me today that he's going to a conference on Friday and canceled my session! That's no warning! I'm so scared that he's going away when I'm so unwell. I'm going to go mad with anxiety this weekend, worrying that I'll worsen physically and I'll be alone. I'm really scared for myself. I've been so shaky (mentally) lately. I'm going to go crazy.
ps. I did forget to tell some good news. My writing course starts next week. (I got the confirmation) I really hope I'm well enough to go -- you're not supposed to miss the first one. I'm scared to do this too (what else is new) but I want to try. My body must cooperate with me for once. I NEED to be well. I didn't tell T about me doing this. I'm not sure why. I feel a little sneaky keeping it a secret, but I'm going to -- for a little while at least.
Posted by Lindenblüte on September 27, 2006, at 18:00:37
In reply to T cancelled :-(, posted by ElaineM on September 27, 2006, at 17:38:20
Boo- that's not good of him.
I hate it when stuff like this happens.
Elaine, you are strong. You will make it on this weekend by yourself. Who knows? maybe you will even feel better since he won't go poking around in your psyche and making uncomfortable physical contact?
Your writing course sounds like fun! Just get yourself out the door, you can do it- and your enthusiasm will do the rest :)
If you can make it to T, then you can go to a course. enjoy!
-Li
Posted by muffled on September 27, 2006, at 22:41:08
In reply to Re: T cancelled :-( » ElaineM, posted by Lindenblüte on September 27, 2006, at 18:00:37
Sorry El :-(
But you'll do ok.
I think Li had some good comments.
Thats great bout your writing thing!
See ya,
Muffly
Posted by ElaineM on September 28, 2006, at 10:34:16
In reply to Re: T cancelled :-( » Lindenblüte, posted by muffled on September 27, 2006, at 22:41:08
I f*cking give up. The white filling on top of my done-by-regular-dentist rootcanal fell out last night. Now you can see the silver working underneath. It throbs like a SOB. I have to hobble in to see him this afternoon for him to look at it. Nothing can even be done until next f*cking Tuesday. I f*cking give up. I can't do this. I didn't even want to go in cause I threw up from my stomach pain this morning, but he said come in anyways. Somebody has to kill me cause I can't keep doing all this. It's never just one thing. Nobody ever fixes anything -- they don't even provide some relief. This is the last f*cking straw. I need help.
Posted by muffled on September 28, 2006, at 13:23:56
In reply to last straw., posted by ElaineM on September 28, 2006, at 10:34:16
One thing at a time El.
You can make it thru this day. You can.
At least you are able to get in this aft.
Hopefully he can patch it up for now.
Can you take tylenol?
Strangely for me, Tylenol works fabulously on tooth pain. Just doesn't last that long so I have to keep waking up in the night to take it.
Just got a root canal, took forever.....
My jaw is sore today. But I can still eat.
It'll be ok El, just get thru stuff one moment at a time.
Take special care,
Muffled
Posted by Lindenblüte on September 28, 2006, at 13:32:30
In reply to last straw., posted by ElaineM on September 28, 2006, at 10:34:16
Hey Elaine,
I'm sooooo sorry. What sh*tty timing.Someone on p-babble recommended to use a ball of parafin or beeswax and put it over the rough spot. It will hold for quite a while, and helps keep food and saliva away from the ouchy spots.
Do take care of yourself. If you're feeling not safe from yourself, I think you should check into the hospital. It's gonna be okay, no matter what happens, because you have people who love you and care for you (REALLY!). I'll be around, even when I'm not on babble, you can think of me, because I'll be thinking of you.
Just put on some nice soft music, and put yourself in bedwith your feet propped up, and some junky magazines nearby. you can distract yourself with some nice smells, like lavender, or your favorite perfume.
Stay hydrated- if you're taking any opiates, you don't want to get too "clogged up". and you can daydream about what kind of short story you'd like to write. Maybe you can even write an outline. You can make up silly haiku, or poems too.
warm fluffies,
-Li
Posted by sunnydays on September 28, 2006, at 14:57:55
In reply to Re: last straw. » ElaineM, posted by Lindenblüte on September 28, 2006, at 13:32:30
Posted by ElaineM on September 30, 2006, at 18:10:37
In reply to (((((El))))) (nm), posted by sunnydays on September 28, 2006, at 14:57:55
I typed this after last Friday and was debating whether or not it would hurt my T to say this. But it's kinda where I'm stuck right now so....
======
Friday was the most painful thing to witness. First of all, he apoligizes all the time, and then says things like "No, I'm not going to
apoligize anymore.".... like he had a conversation with himself. Not that he's schizo or anything, but you know how sometimes when you start to talk to someone you jump into your own train of thought a sentence or two ahead, and the person is like "Where did that come from?" Well, he does that sort of thing alot. He seems so very torn up and conflicted about his feelings and expressing them.It is hard for me to convey on the board the sensitive side to the things he says and does -- it just doesn't seem appropriate and it's a little embarassing and confusing for me. But I've been feeling bad about this because I think that that stuff would sort of tone down the "predatory" vibes that most get from my accounts of what he says and does.
But last Friday, he started to break down saying that his feelings are so strong, and he knows that he shouldn't be having them. His eyes were red and he had to wipe them a few times with kleenex. He could barely say stuff - IT WAS SOOOOOO PAINFUL to watch. He was just aching.
During that he said to me that he hopes that he hasn't scared me away, and that I don't think his love is only a therapeutic tool, or that his love is disgusting. He actually said disgusting, MY word :'( It was so hard. He said he was trying to control it, but wanted me to know that his feelings come from his heart and are genuine. He said he knew others would not understand and say, it's wrong, and it couldn't happen like this, and it's not appropriate, but he doesn't care. He said he couldn't control it happening and that he wrestled for over a month deciding whether to tell me or not. He says he is embarassed that I didn't love him back right away. He said his feelings sometimes get so strong that he is blind to everything else, and that he sometimes has problems restraining them. He said he is sad that he can't have me as a woman. Even though I'm NOT a woman, or hardly one. And I hate hearing stuff like that. (but that was the only sexual-type thing he said that session)
He looked so broken and sad. He said he can't stand how sad he is. I know he is not saying it to be predatory. He debased himself way too much for it to be a trick. It's bad enough that I can't love him back, and that he knows it would be wrong for him to force me too -- he would never do that. I asked him if it would help him to give me to someone else, and he said no.
I don't know why or how he could feel so strongly for me. I think I may have been the first patient to be this age, and SO weak and alone and maybe that makes it easier to be emotional -- kinda like being with me is the same as being alone. Plus, there's aspects of our histories that are very similar. I want to take care of him -- though I know I shouldn't have to, and he knows I don't have to. His pain is greater than mine -- it's been growing for longer. He asked for a hug when I was leaving and so I let him hug me for a long time. He was hugging so tight that I couldn't breathe, and everytime I went to see if I could pull away he'd hold on tighter. But while he had been talking I kept envisioning myself going and sitting beside him to hold him.
What am I going to do? I know I'm not "supposed" to, but how do I fix him? How would I help him if he was just a regular man in my life? I don't know what's what. ????
(I've left out the last paragraph that I wrote today, I'm just not sure if I can post it yet, cause I'm scared of it. Plus, things are changing again, I think)
Posted by muffled on September 30, 2006, at 19:17:27
In reply to way back last Friday, posted by ElaineM on September 30, 2006, at 18:10:37
oh El, you said that so beautifully and kindly.
He comes across as just hurting and broken and not dangerous, but KNOWING he is wrong, but seemingly unable to do anything about it.
If he was just a guy and you said this, I would proly tell you (like I SO smart- NOT) but anyways, I DO think he is in need of professional help. He obvo. has deeply troubling issues. You cannot do a whole lot to help him other than letting him CLEARLY know what your personal boundaries are, amd sticking to them. Other than that you can just be a friend, stop playing the T game. He truly is not your T. He is a hurting person who is a friend. I think if you are clear and he is willing to stick to the boundaries, that you could have a friendship.
I just don't know how stable he is, as far as being able to understand and keep to your set boundaries.
It almost sounds as if he is out of control and trying to tell you that.
I do not necc. think his pain is greater, but mebbe different than yours.
It is SO hard to see someone in pain.
But he CAN get help I hope.
He needs it.
I guess mebbe it harder in some ways when your 'in the business', to admit you need help, I dunno.
So maybe you can get him to seek help.
HE NEEDS TO. I dunno how you can make him do that. Or help him along somehow?
Please keep yourself safe.
I think he care's for you.
But I thinks he's even afraid of himself :-(
Thats not a good feeling at all.
And its real, and can be dangerous.
I been kinda in a bit of a muddle myself lately, so I may be way off base....
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by TherapyGirl on September 30, 2006, at 19:58:08
In reply to way back last Friday, posted by ElaineM on September 30, 2006, at 18:10:37
I'm with Muffled on this. It doesn't matter whether or not he is actually PREDATORY -- I promise you this isn't therapy. You should not be spending YOUR sessions talking about HIS feelings. And for sure you shouldn't be worried about fixing HIM -- you're there to work on YOU. His sh*t is getting in your way.
I know it's been hard for you to reach out to others and find other help, but I don't believe this guy is helping you.
Posted by Lindenblüte on September 30, 2006, at 22:01:46
In reply to Re: way back last Friday » ElaineM, posted by TherapyGirl on September 30, 2006, at 19:58:08
Hey El,
I've been reading a very interesting book. It's making a LOT of sense to me. "Trauma and Recovery"Here's an excerpt that really resonated with me (p. 105)
"This malignant sense of inner badness is often camoflaged by the abused child's persistant attempts to be good. In the effort to placate her abusers, the child victim often becomes a superb performer. She attempts to do whatever is required of her. She may become an empathetic caretaker for her parents, an efficient housekeeper, an academic achiever, a model of social conformity. She brings to all these tasks a perfectionist zeal, driven by the desperate need to find favor in her parent's eyes. [...as an adult...] None of her achievements in the world redound to her credit, however, for she usually perceives her performing self as inauthentic and false. Rather, the appreciation of others simply confirms her conviction that no one can truly now her and that, if her secret and true self were recognized, she would be shunned and reviled."I was thinking of you in some of the sections where the author is talking about the role of the therapist in the recovery process-- especially regarding complicated counter-transference reactions that happen when even the best T's treat patients with a history of trauma.
p. 142
"As a defense against the unbearable feeling of helplessness, the therapist may try to assume the role of a rescuer. The therapist may take on more and more of an advocacy role for the patient. By so doing, she implies that the patient is not capable of acting for herself. The more the therapist accepts the idea that the patient is helpless, the more she perpetuates the traumatic transference and disempowers the patient. [...] Carried to its logical extreme, the therapist's defense against feelings of helplessness leads to a stance of grandiose specialness or omnipotence. Unless this tendency is analyzed and controlled, the potential for corrupting the therapy relationship is great. All sorts of extreme boundary violations, up to and including sexual intimacy, are frequently rationalized on the basis of the patent's desperate need for rescue and the therapist's extraordinary gifts as a rescuer.Hmm...
As a client, you should ask your T if he has anybody who is serving as a consult or a supervisor for his clinical work. That you are having a hard time understanding the clinical boundaries, and that it's making it hard for you to be open with him. That you'd like a review of what the contract is. What is expected of you: that you'll pay, that you'll be completely 100% open 100& honest. And of him: that he'll honor the session's time restrictions, that he'll be accepting and non-judgmental, that he'll be explicit about what his availability is outside of session time.
Elaine, you are very very good to write this stuff. It will help you organize it in your head. No wonder your head is spinning. This is WAY too much baggage. If you have to help him, then transferance becomes counter-transferrance and vice-versa. Only, you're not TRAINED to handle these intense feelings! No wonder this is so difficult. Time to find a new therapist. You CAN do this on your own. You have a free-will, and you are a strong, independent woman. Even if your teeth are kinda fragile, you have bunches of strength in your reserve (I could have NEVER held onto so much mental garbage for a whole week. Seriously. That's mucho impressive) I would have spewed it all over babble as soon as I got home!
best to you, Elaine,
Lemme know how your new T goes!-Li
p.s. I'm liking my newT a lot. She doesn't give me those cues that I get from most people when I'm going into dangerous territory- you know? The slight pause, and break in attention? The eyebrow raise? The break in eye-contact. She's with me. Very neutral, calm, but warm expression. She's southern too. I like that voice. It's like... I think it's going to be okay. I think she "gets" it, and she's sending me signals like she's ready to handle whatever comes next. She also told me that it's okay to take my time. That we can just let this stuff unfold. No rush. No panic. I like that. The nicest thing about going to visit my hometown is the pace of life. Everything is slower. Less urgent.
Posted by ElaineM on October 1, 2006, at 17:45:11
In reply to Re: way back last Friday » ElaineM, posted by muffled on September 30, 2006, at 19:17:27
Thanks for saying that Muff. (you're not off base) I know he's not a "T". I've known that for awhile now. But knowing that, I'm not sure that I need "therapy". I think I do need a friend. I think I needed that more than anything. I'm reluctant to give up the formality that the T label still provides though. I do believe he's more aware of what he can and can't expect from me now. I think. Or maybe I'm silly and naive.
I have already talked with him about his past analysis' a few months ago when he was going through some Ex stuff. We talked about what he got from it those times, and what I think he needed to work more on. I've only got a layman's knowledge of conducting therapy but right away I brought up what I would've suggested that he worked on. I said he "deserved" to enter into therapy again, now. And that I would go with him if he liked. But (as you guessed) he said that it would just not be acceptable for someone in his position. He's someone that younger T's would go to for consultation. He said that in his postion, he just can't. Plus he's very much like me personality-wise, so I think he'd find it very difficult.
I don't think he's "disturbed" but maybe going through a late mid-life crisis. ALOT of it has to do with recent Ex relationship.
I don't know, I really think I'll just continue to try and recall what Ladydoc and LadyT have sounded like, the stock phrases I hate so much, the mirroring, etc. and try and "help" that way as much as I can. Most of the time I think he just wants a chance to say and feel the embarassing things that he has to cover up, or put away, while doing sessions with other clients or peers. And I can do that. Listening is one thing I can still manage. Though, maybe I am having a harder time with that then I think. It mostly has to do with one subject -- one that I really cannot cope with....
I small SI'd last night, and I think it was cause I wrote that "omitted paragraph" for yesterday's post. That, and cause I'm really scared and worried about meeting my new physician tomorrow. It's gonna be a testing-out meeting. Anyways, I kinda don't even care if I'm making myself look uglier by doing it. I miss my old doctor :(
Muff, your posts are always precious. I'm glad I have you to talk with.
blove, EL
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.