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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fairywings on April 19, 2006, at 12:29:07
My T and I were talking at my appt. 2 weeks ago, and somehow my husband's work came up. I told him about this woman at my husband work who has always been interested in him. I never felt too threatened, but didn't like it at all, and my husband knew how I felt.
Later that evening, after my appt., my husband mentioned something about this woman (he doesn't talk about her too much), and all of a sudden a lightbulb went on. I realized he knows WAY too much about her and her kid! He knows more about her day to day stuff, her feelings, and her kid, than he knows about me or our kids! All of a sudden I realized he's been having an emotional involvement with this woman for at least 3 years!
There are a LOT of specifics....I won't go into them here. But, he's defended her, he flat out refuses to go to therapy with me, and he denies being involved - but the evidence is too overwhelming....and I caught him in a lie last week. He's not a bad guy, he loves me, but he's SO naive, and emotionally "not there" for me.
I can't believe I never saw it before! I can't believe I was SO stupid! I"m so mad and so hurt that I can't be nice to him. I'm mad and can't hide it from our kids, and I'm sure it's hurting them. I'm so depressed I just want to go to bed and sleep. I'm so tired.
Has anyone else been through this? What did you do? How did you feel when you found out? What if you're too mad to deal with your husband in a civil way?
I have no skills, no job, and nowhere to go! I feel like I'm stuck.
fw
Posted by orchid on April 19, 2006, at 12:49:47
In reply to need support and suggestions please, posted by fairywings on April 19, 2006, at 12:29:07
Oh, I am really so sorry. It must be awfully hurting.
Are you sure he is emotionally involved with this woman? I remember you having a very good marriage and your husband was very supportive of you.
Lot of times, what happens in office isn't really all that important in real lives. Office becomes something like a fantasy land, where people let down their guards and have some fun away from home. It usually doesn't get serious at all and ends in minor flirting and little bit of personal catharsis and healing where people vent out their issues at home.
I have seen in my old office, where people always flirt - atleast a little bit. They tell other friends what happens at home, their troubles and issues with their wives/husbands, seek comfort or solace from others in office. But it usually ends there. It never gets more serious than a minor therapy kind of thing. People tend to behave a little like therapists to each other and comfort each other, and 99% of the people know their limits though.
I think this woman must have unloaded lot of her personal stuff to your husband, and I think your husband must have just lent her a hearing ear out of courtesy and sympathy. And nothing more. Maybe he felt good about being able to play the therapist role, but I don't think he took it more serious than that. (my conclusion is from reading your posts about your marriage for qutie a long time). It seems he is devoted to you, and likes you and your kids. Sure, he might have known a little bit too much about this friend, and her kids, but most people in office do know more about their colleagues lives than their spouses would prefer. When I used to work, some of my male colleagues confided in me their issues with their women in their lives. In fact, a colleague even told me so many things about his would-be-wife and basically was even seeking my approval. And I never really talked too much in office to anyone. But neverthelss I ended up hearing about it. It was all unwanted information for me, but anyway I heard. But it was nothing more than that for me - it was just some one venting some of their troubles.
I am sure yoru husband thinks of her this way.
Please hang in there. I think it might be a little too early to try to push your husband to go to therapy with you, if he resists it. But I think what you should do, is to tell your husband how uncomfortable it makes you feel that he apparently talks to this woman, and ask him to stop lending a ear to her issues and problems.
Posted by B2chica on April 19, 2006, at 12:51:55
In reply to need support and suggestions please, posted by fairywings on April 19, 2006, at 12:29:07
((((((((((((fairywings)))))))))))))
first i'm glad to hear at least you are talking about it in therapy even if he's not. he needs to realize that your needs are suffering here and he needs to pay attention to them and respect your wishes.
now i don't know the whole story but whatever is going on is NOT on you. you are Not stupid, and you have every right to be upset at your feelings being violated.
-just curious but what does your T say about all this?usually if i get too angry to deal with people in a civil way i try tell them what is going on and that i can't stand being around them at that time.
i definately think that talking more about this to your T could help you. help you understand your feelings and possibly his.so are you saying there is some type of love affair going on between them (maybe non-sexual?) or are you upset that he seems to be paying more attention to her life, her kids, her work than your own lives? (just as valid)
just keep in mind that sometimes guys can be a little dense on this subject and (i'm guessing) he spends 40 hours a week with this person, you tend to get to know them pretty well if you get along. but she may have different intentions. sometimes it's amazing at how little some guys pick up on stuff. maybe he isn't even aware she's pulled him so much into her life??
but most importantly you should make sure that he knows that his intimate knowledge of her and her life is greatly upsetting you. he needs to acknowledge, understand AND respect that.please let us know what you decide to do about this.
also, what your T thinks.b2c.
Posted by TherapyGirl on April 19, 2006, at 13:03:27
In reply to Re: need support and suggestions please, posted by B2chica on April 19, 2006, at 12:51:55
Fairywings, I have nothing to add to the wise women before me, but I wanted to let you know that I'm sorry you've been so hurt by this.
I hope you will be able to talk to your T and your husband more about this and come to a resolution that gives you peace.
Posted by milly on April 19, 2006, at 13:40:56
In reply to need support and suggestions please, posted by fairywings on April 19, 2006, at 12:29:07
(((((((fairywings))))))))
men are so dense he may well not realise that she is *interested* in him and would be shocked if you told him, but they are also IMHO easily flattered.
Try not to go jumping to massive conclusions but also try and ask him about it rationally and keeping taking it to therapy.
My hubby was very hurt by my *emotional* absence from our marriage because of my connection with my T and I never for a minute meant to hurt him, I really hope you can work this out.
Take care
milly
Posted by caraher on April 19, 2006, at 15:03:47
In reply to Re: need support and suggestions please, posted by B2chica on April 19, 2006, at 12:51:55
So apparently I'm dense because of my Y chromosome... well, I'll just have to cope as best I can...
What's life like at home? It's easy to get so caught up in the whirl of dealing with kids, etc. that there's simply much more opportunity to get to know a co-worker than a spouse. When I first started in therapy we had young children and my chief recurring complaint about home life was that I'd come home from work and we'd put the kids in bed and my wife would go to sleep immediately. (She had no employment outside the home, preferring to concentrate on the important work to be done there!) Little wonder we sometimes felt like strangers! We briefly did some counseling together during which she balked vociferously at the suggestion of committing to spend 15 minutes a night "being adults" after the kids went to bed.
Then a few years later she decided an online friendship of mine was something much more... That I wasn't as involved in my own spouse's life as I could be. And while she didn't say it in so many words, I was "clueless" about what an emotional betrayal it was. But that the silver lining was that by snooping on my chat logs she learned that I really do have an emotional life. Somehow my longstanding, repeated failed campaigns to spend some "quality" time together added up (in her mind) to my being aloof and seeking emotional fulfillment elsewhere.
The main thing you said that's disturbing is that he refuses to go into counseling with you. But when you say "he's defended her" you seem to imply that you've been attacking her. If he genuinely thinks she's done nothing wrong of course he defends her! And if you've taken an accusatory stance it could be that he balks at counseling out of sheer defensiveness.
Anyway, I'm sorry that you feel hurt... I know it must be awful. And I'm not trying to say you shouldn't feel that way, or even that your suspicions are unfounded. But after all the "men are clueless" remarks I thought a reminder that there can be two sides to these stories would be in order...
Posted by LadyBug on April 19, 2006, at 15:12:01
In reply to need support and suggestions please, posted by fairywings on April 19, 2006, at 12:29:07
(((((((fairywings)))))))
I can relate to you. I'm not saying your husband is guilty or not, but I've been through this and my gut instint was right on. I told my husband for over 2 years to stay away from one of his female employees and he refused to listen or even care about how I felt. He was full of lies and would tell me he was only trying to help her build her home business. I said, that isn't your responsibility... He ended up getting fired last Sept. for being involved with her!!! He could no longer deny it!! Except I think she was more in it for a friendship and he was in it for an affair. I know this from an e-mail he accidently left open on the computer. She was telling him "no" and trying to be polite about it. I about blew a gasket at the time.
I like you, can't support myself and my girls. I have a job, but there is no way I make enough. So I stayed in the marriage and I regret every min. of everyday! I don't love him anymore and can't wait till I can get out of this marriage, I left emotionally. I can't be as nice to him as I should, I'm angry and hurt. And he wonders why???? This isn't the first time he's been unfaithful. He cheated on me once about 9 years ago. I wasn't as hurt then, because it was with someone he didn't actually know. I know most people would just leave and that is my plan. If not for our kids, I would leave and move in with my parents if I had too. but they won't consider it and I don't blame them.
All I can say is, the wife usually has a gut feeling and you need to go with it. I'm so sorry this is happening to you. It hurts more than anything I've ever been through. I want to leave. I can tolerate many imperfections, but there's no excure for this one. It hurts me to even write about it.
I've talked to my T a lot about my feelings and it hurts so much. She told me last week that indeed our marriage has failed and I need to think about really leaving. I'm jeolous of her marriage, I'm sure it's wonderful, she had told me that before. I've been married for almost 22 years, so the decision is hard.Keep in touch and let us know how it goes.
Hugs
LadyBug
Posted by happyflower on April 19, 2006, at 16:41:11
In reply to Re: need support and suggestions please » fairywings, posted by LadyBug on April 19, 2006, at 15:12:01
Ladybug,
I hear you tell your story and I feel like it is my future life with my husband. I can't support my kids if I leave my husband as well as they would need. So I am also staying in the marriage until my kids are older and I can work full time. I have been married 12 1/2 years, the first 10 1/2 years were okay, but last years are bad.
My Dh also is having an affair with a women at his work. They started off being friends, well she wanted more, and she keep after him , and eventually got what she wanted. My husband refused to talk more about this and refuses to do any therapy.
If I had the money, I would leave in a heartbeat. I am also now emotionally removed from him because it hurts too much to keep hoping for him to change.
My T says he respects what I am doing because I do have choices and I am making the best choice for my kids and me until I can financially be on my own.
But my T is seeing me slowly die inside because not matter what I do I can't fill that void that my marriage used to be for me. I am lonely. My T jokes and says I should get a boy toy, because I am in my sexual peak with nobody to enjoy it with. Plus I would make my DH use a condom(even though he had a vaceconmy) because who know what he might have come in contact with and I don't need any of that stuff. But I really don't have to worry about him wanting me, because it has been over year since we have had any intimatacy.
I guess if it is any comfort at all I am living with the same kind of crap.
Posted by happyflower on April 19, 2006, at 16:48:12
In reply to need support and suggestions please, posted by fairywings on April 19, 2006, at 12:29:07
(((((((((Fairywings)))))))))
I am so sorry you have to go through all of this. I am glad you are reaching out for help, and I hope someone will have some good ideas because I need help too on how to deal with this.
I am glad you have a wonderful T who can help you with this, and of course I will always be your friend and help anyway I can. I sent you an email earlier today. ((((((((fairywings)))))
Posted by fairywings on April 19, 2006, at 18:14:03
In reply to Re: need support and suggestions please, posted by happyflower on April 19, 2006, at 16:48:12
Thanks for the support and suggestions, I appreciate it. Like ladybug, for at least 2 years I"ve been telling my husband that something just wasn't right...but I could never tell exactly what it was. I trusted him and never thought he's get involved with someone else. Over the past 3 years, several people from his office warned me about her - how she acts when she's with him, how much time she spends in his office, "how" she talks to him and about him. But I never felt threatened - she just seemed too over the top.
He is good to me - he's kind, he's never raised his voice to me, and he helps out around the house. We've been married 20 years, but until I saw the 1st T - last June, we hadn't had a date - hadn't been out in at least 5 years, probably more. (my fault for not insisting)
People asked what my T thinks....when I went to him I had no idea why I kept getting depressed or why I was so angry. There's more to it than just this problem, but my T thinks I had trouble seeing what's going on bec. my husband is a nice person, and bec. I don't want to see it. I've had trouble facing it because I have trouble separating the good person/bad things. I think my T saw problems b4 I did...pointed out how some stuff wasn't "right", and how men "should" treat women - He had a real problem with the fact that on our 20th anniv. there was no gift, not even a card. He had a problem with my husband going on vacation and not feelng guilty about leaving me behind. There's more...but you get the idea.
I haven't attacked this woman, but I've complained about certain things. She tells him really personal information about her feelings and her life - I think she intentionally "appeals" to him as a confidant. I think she knew exactly what she was doing. She wanted to go out to lunch alone with him, and he didn't understand why it upset me - after I got mad he said he wouldn't go. He slipped last week and told me they did go. She learned to play golf, and then they played - he saw it as just another golf game. But then they played with my daughter, I found out, and that was TOO much. She calls frequently at night - tells me there are problems at work. On shadowing day she told my older daughter talking to my husband is the best part of her day. There are so many other things.....I can't believe I was so blind, and just sat by and let it all happen.
When the lightbulb finally went on for me, and I confronted him, he admitted he does care deeply about her. I think it happened b4 he realized what "hit him". I don't think he intended to give her so much more emotionally than he gives me - there's just time to do it at work. Life at home is chaotic with 4 kids, esp. since there's quite an age spread, and the youngest has behavioral problems. Her life probably seems simpler....like a break from reality.
Am I jumping the gun? Could it all be innocent? Am I over reacting? I don't think so, but I guess he could be that naive.
Thanks,
fw
Posted by crazy teresa on April 19, 2006, at 18:44:08
In reply to Re: need support and suggestions please » happyflower, posted by fairywings on April 19, 2006, at 18:14:03
I'm sorry FW.
I don't think you're over reacting at all. Even if there's been no physical contact, an affair always begins in the heart.
Posted by orchid on April 19, 2006, at 18:52:12
In reply to Re: need support and suggestions please » happyflower, posted by fairywings on April 19, 2006, at 18:14:03
After I read this post, it does look like she is deliberately after your husband. And your husband probably either doesn't realize it or realizes it but enjoys the attention.
You have to talk to your husband firmly about this, and see where he stands.
I don't think he would leave you for this woman or anything drastic like that, (4 kids + 20 years of marriage is hard to break away for anyone). But I think he is enjoying a little break from the routine. And I think you both should seek counselling - now or a little later when things cool down between you two.
Posted by crazy teresa on April 19, 2006, at 18:54:44
In reply to need support and suggestions please, posted by fairywings on April 19, 2006, at 12:29:07
I hope this doesn't sound bitchy; it's not meant to. I mean it in the most heartfelt, compassionate way. This exact thing happened between my parents, but my mother refused to move on beyond the pain, betrayal and heartbreak.
Please don't just accept being the victim of an unfaithful spouse. You can start to take control of you lives. You could sign up for a couple of college classes and start taking the steps to be free and able to support yourselves. You deserve so much more than what you're getting. Be strong!
Posted by happyflower on April 19, 2006, at 19:08:45
In reply to To all of you in this situation:, posted by crazy teresa on April 19, 2006, at 18:54:44
I so agree I do deserve more. My T says my life could be so much better. I am doing therapy, started to exercise regularly, signed up to do a 5 K, started playing my trumpet again in 2 bands, and I am thinking of taking some college classes once I am done with therapy.
I am finding myself and learning who I am now, and all the stuff I am doing is to build my self esteem once again. My T thinks this is the only thing keeping me afloat because my husband is not attending to my needs in a marriage.But I do know it is so hard to do these things. I think I am lucky I started to do these things before my marriage totally went to heck, or It would be harder to do after the fact.
Thanks for mentioning what you do, because I think it is so important to learn to attend to our own needs when nobody else will that should. ;-)
Posted by milly on April 20, 2006, at 8:07:17
In reply to Re: need support and suggestions please, posted by milly on April 19, 2006, at 13:40:56
i re read what I wrote and realised it wasn't very sensitive I'm sorry.
What I was think about was when my hubby (before we were married) was a reasearch chemist working in a university there were at least 3 female undergraduates who would ask him to help them with 'experiments' after lectures and he really had no idea what they were really doing, then I'd go to his flat and they would be there asking some 'chemistry' question - he really didn't realise what was happening.Again apologies for the sweeping statement
milly
Posted by fairywings on April 20, 2006, at 10:33:26
In reply to I'm really sorry caraher, posted by milly on April 20, 2006, at 8:07:17
Thanks again for the suggestions and support.
HF you are my role model! ; ) It's so awesome you've moved forward and are enjoying your life even though your marriage is not a good or loving one.
CrazyT, my mom was the same way, and my biggest fear is that I'm turing into her! I don't want to be angry and bitter - I'm just so hurt right now. It aches inside and I feel a constant sinking feeling. I feel really paralyzed, but I am taking college classes, and I run - but I have so far to go bec. I have NO social life at all, and there's always too much to do w/4 kids.
Orchid, my husband refuses counseling, he sees it as a statement about his mental health I guess.
Milly, I'm glad your husband came around.
Caraher, I'm glad you and your wife worked it out. You sound like a good husband.
I guess I can't really blame my husband....if some man were being wonderful to me, and paying me all kinds of attn maybe I'd fall for him too. Hard to ignore that I guess! Esp. when life at home is hectic and chaotic.
fw
Posted by fairywings on April 20, 2006, at 10:42:39
In reply to Re: need support and suggestions please » fairywings, posted by LadyBug on April 19, 2006, at 15:12:01
Ladybug, I remember when you posted about this - how your husband lost his job, and where you were with everything emotionally at the time. I'm so sorry!
I wish there were some way you could make it. It's hard to stay bec. you feel you have no way out. I know what it's like to be in a marriage with someone you don't love. My mom did that - she had 4 kids too, and my dad was horrible! She really died inside - very sad.
I hope you can find a way. Are your kids almost grown? Are you able to take classes. Does your husband help you at all around the house or with the kids so you could take classes? I don't get it why some men think we should just be able to move on, "get over it", it's such a huge betrayal.
I understand how you feel toward your husband, and how hard it is to be civil, and the anger and hurt. My heart is broken, I"m sure yours is too. Wish we could give eachother a hug.....how about a cyberhug?
((((ladybug)))
fw
Posted by LadyBug on April 20, 2006, at 11:36:26
In reply to Re: need support and suggestions please » LadyBug, posted by fairywings on April 20, 2006, at 10:42:39
My kids are 15 and 20. The 20 year old is actually a help to me. She makes pretty good money and would help me. And my parents would help me some too.
Last night all I dreamed about was him cheating on me. It seems to consume a lot of my dreams lately and it only makes me more angry when I wake up. I want out so bad.
I have an appointment with my T tonight and I'm going to talk about it all with her. It's hard and I leave her office in tears when I talk about my marriage and then I carry it with me for days and my kids blame it all on my T and they hate her. When in fact it's my husband that I hate and he is the one causing me the sadness. It's so complicated.
I'm applying for different job within the one I work at. So there is hope. I agree taking a few more classes would be helpful. One major problem is my health. I have severe arthritis and so my job has limits as to what I can do. It makes it harder and I have to be more picky about where I can go to work.
I do have awesome benefits at my current job. And maybe I could get alamony along with child support. Maybe I could make it if I really sat down and figured it out.
THANKS so much for the cyber hug!! I could actually feel it. I hope you can get things worked through in your marriage. It hurts so much to be cheated on. I've heard that it takes a min. of 2 years to work through and forgive. That's if the spouse if willing to repent and make amends which I don't think my husband tried very hard at doing. We never touch each other, never hug, basically it's over. We talk about what we have to talk about and that's it. I have my life and it revolves around my kids and I do whatever I want!! I have friends and I hang out with them whenever I feel like it.
My goal is to get out!!!!
Cyber hugs coming back at ya!!
(((((((FW))))))))
Thanks and best of everything to you~~~
LadyuBug
Posted by fairywings on April 20, 2006, at 16:43:49
In reply to Re: need support and suggestions please » fairywings, posted by LadyBug on April 20, 2006, at 11:36:26
Hi LB,
It sounds like you're doing well with getting on with your life, good for you! You deserve SO much more, and he doesn't deserve you!
You've done a good job with your kids - that's a huge accomplishment. Even though they might blame your T, maybe somewhere in the back of their minds they know. It's easier to blame someone else I guess.
My husband blames my T for making me realizing all of this - but my ex T did too, and people at his work warned me, so it can't just be my imagination. It's easier for him to blame my T than to face up to, and change, what he's doing.
I hope you get the job! And I hope you get alimony and child support - a great lawyer can be worth his weight in gold! My mom had one, and she came out smelling like a rose - other than the emotional devastation - which money can't mend. I think your nightmares say a lot about the damage.
If my husband will work on it, we might have a fighting chance. He's basically a good guy, just naive, and too trusting. And he's got to change not telling me things, or doing things that hurt me. You're right the deception hurts like h*ll.
I'm glad you feel the hug!
fw
Posted by damos on April 20, 2006, at 22:30:25
In reply to need support and suggestions please, posted by fairywings on April 19, 2006, at 12:29:07
Can't really add anything to what the others have said. So I'll just send my thoughts and wishes that somehow you'll find the peace, love and happiness you deserve. Oh, and hug in case you need one
((((((((((Fairywings)))))))))
Posted by caraher on April 20, 2006, at 22:31:14
In reply to Re: need support and suggestions please » happyflower, posted by fairywings on April 19, 2006, at 18:14:03
Hi fw,
After your followup post with more details it's pretty clear that your worries are justified. The two telltale signs are lying and protecting "exclusive" activities with her.
My judgment is based on how I've handled vaguely similar situations. The key is openness. If there's "nothing to hide" than he should be happy to be open with you. For instance, I could see him deciding that, in spite of your objections, there's really nothing wrong with going to lunch with her and doing so. But he should own up to it. Maybe when he "slipped" he was just telling you? But it seems like he's in the habit of telling you what he thinks you want to hear, which is why he told you he wouldn't go to lunch alone with her.
And the golf thing... with your daughter coming along... that's just weird. Golf is not work, and he's choosing to spend his time this way rather than doing something with you. And it doesn't sound like "just a round of golf" if he's bringing your daughter along. It reminds me of things my own father did before he divorced my mother, right down to the leaky secrecy. (All us kids had been reading the diary he'd shelved in the family room, detailing his affair, long before my mother had any clue what was going on.)
It sounds like your daughter should have some good insights on what's really happening. It seems as if he's trying to establish your daughter and his colleague in a friendship, an opportunity he's not extending to you.
This year I've begun working closely with an attractive woman. She's shared some pretty personal things about herself with me, and we meet once a week for what amounts to a long lunch. Business is on the agenda but by no means exhausts it. But I've made a point of introducing my wife to her; we've exchanged dinner visits and my wife really likes her. We get together just to talk from time to time, but we don't exchange nighttime phone calls. It's not a secretive relationship because there is no need for secrecy. The secrecy and deception are big red flags.
And I hope you didn't take my defensiveness as implying that I thought you were overreacting. I was just being a bit too sensitive to how people put things in support of you... (((fw)))
Posted by caraher on April 20, 2006, at 22:34:08
In reply to I'm really sorry caraher, posted by milly on April 20, 2006, at 8:07:17
This is the end of the thread.
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