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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 13 to 37 of 74. Go back in thread:
Posted by Tamar on May 9, 2005, at 13:09:22
In reply to Re: I don't have to pretend anything here, posted by pinkeye on May 8, 2005, at 19:22:14
> And I think I do all this, because deep inside, I am very hurt, and very scared and feel very rejected. Too much of guilt, and self blaming and confusion and conflict and feeling ashamed..and feel too unworthy of happiness and being liked and loved.
>
> I think that is the end of the tunnel.. reached the bottom. How do I climb up from here? Can someone help me?I'm sorry you're feeling so bad at the moment. Sending you hugs.
Tamar
Posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 13:22:16
In reply to (((((((((((Pinkeye)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) (nm), posted by happyflower on May 8, 2005, at 21:14:27
Posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 13:22:41
In reply to Re: (((((((((((Pinkeye)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))), posted by gardenergirl on May 8, 2005, at 22:59:29
Posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 13:27:23
In reply to Re: I don't have to pretend anything here » pinkeye, posted by fallsfall on May 9, 2005, at 8:36:45
I have tried to be.. as much as I understood myself at that point, I have been honest with my ex T.. except maybe the part about my dad.. and it is very hard for me to put my father down in front of his eyes.. Now I am actually realizing that I didn't have to protect my dad so much. Maybe my ex T would have understood.. But I feel like what if he had thought, "Oh, I thought she was only little bit messed up, now it is great to see how messed up she really is".. And I couldn't have taken it. I guess I was really scared, and I didn't realize how much all this was affecting me at that time either.. I thought I was ok. And I wanted him to like me, and I was so desperate for his approval also, maybe that is why I tried to get better so much with him. I felt ashamed - that he wouldn't like me if he knows what I did with my dad.. about allowing him to be physically so close to me etc.. even though now I realize it was totally not my fault.. I never once initiated any thing with my dad, and I tried to pull several times away from him. But he simply wouldn't let me, and I was afraid of hurting his feelings.
Posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 13:28:19
In reply to Re: I don't have to pretend anything here » pinkeye, posted by Tamar on May 9, 2005, at 13:09:22
Thanks a lot Tamar. You have been really supportive to me. I am sorry I have triggering a lot lately, and in a constant bad mood. I wish I was not.. Thanks so much.
Posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 15:34:05
In reply to Re: I don't have to pretend anything here » fallsfall, posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 13:27:23
I have been having this intense desire to now go back to my ex T and tell him everything, and somehow get some understanding from him. Because I think that would really help me.
He is philosophically very strong person, and he might be able to help me out of all this guilt and unworthy feeling..
But I am so goddamn scared.. What if he never replies? I would be devastated completely.. and even if he replies and says something like back off or don't write to me anymore, I will be completely gone.. and I think I don't really want a therapeutic response anymore either. I want a response from like a friend, like how you guys give me here.. The kind of non commital and blank slate response is the last that I need now also.
Hmm.. no, maybe I just better keep it all to myself.
> I have tried to be.. as much as I understood myself at that point, I have been honest with my ex T.. except maybe the part about my dad.. and it is very hard for me to put my father down in front of his eyes.. Now I am actually realizing that I didn't have to protect my dad so much. Maybe my ex T would have understood.. But I feel like what if he had thought, "Oh, I thought she was only little bit messed up, now it is great to see how messed up she really is".. And I couldn't have taken it. I guess I was really scared, and I didn't realize how much all this was affecting me at that time either.. I thought I was ok. And I wanted him to like me, and I was so desperate for his approval also, maybe that is why I tried to get better so much with him. I felt ashamed - that he wouldn't like me if he knows what I did with my dad.. about allowing him to be physically so close to me etc.. even though now I realize it was totally not my fault.. I never once initiated any thing with my dad, and I tried to pull several times away from him. But he simply wouldn't let me, and I was afraid of hurting his feelings.
Posted by Tamar on May 9, 2005, at 16:27:52
In reply to I wish I could tell my ex T all this but scared, posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 15:34:05
> I have been having this intense desire to now go back to my ex T and tell him everything, and somehow get some understanding from him. Because I think that would really help me.
(((((pinkeye)))))
> He is philosophically very strong person, and he might be able to help me out of all this guilt and unworthy feeling..
>
> But I am so goddamn scared.. What if he never replies? I would be devastated completely.. and even if he replies and says something like back off or don't write to me anymore, I will be completely gone.. and I think I don't really want a therapeutic response anymore either. I want a response from like a friend, like how you guys give me here.. The kind of non commital and blank slate response is the last that I need now also.I can totally understand that you want to contact him and that you hope for a friendly response. But didn’t you say he’d stopped being a therapist? So maybe he wouldn’t reply.
> Hmm.. no, maybe I just better keep it all to myself.
Or maybe talk to your new T about it? It takes time to get through all this stuff and sometimes it has to be revisited over and over again. But it’s probably important to keep doing it until it starts to get easier.
And, of course, keep posting at babble!
Posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 16:38:51
In reply to Re: I wish I could tell my ex T all this but scared » pinkeye, posted by Tamar on May 9, 2005, at 16:27:52
Thanks Tamar. You are right, I won't be getting a reply. I think he will never write anymore to me again, and I just have to let go and accept it.
Besides, he probably would have forgotten me by now as well. And it will probably appear like I am trying to manipulate him into writing to me again - by inventing some new sob story.
And besides I think they are not taught too much about all these transference and everything in India. He won't be able to grasp what I am going through, and maybe he will think I am just trying to flirt and cling on to him. He never was into too much regressing into childhood and stuff. Actually, anybody else in India would have straight away gone to that conclusion (that I am just trying to be flirty) if I had told them about all these attraction and stuff. Atleast he had much more exposure and common sense than other psychiatrists in India. A cousin of mine went to somebody else (a couple of other psychiatrists) and told me that both of them had absolutely no clue what they were talking about. She said they were totally worthless and really had no idea whatsoever about anything in life. I am glad mine had lot more knowledge and understanding than that.
I guess I will stick with babble and my new T. The problem is I am so connected to him, so it would really help me. But maybe that is not the point.. maybe I should try to heal by myself.
Posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 16:52:08
In reply to Re: I wish I could tell my ex T all this but scared » Tamar, posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 16:38:51
And besides, if I go and complain to anyone in India, they would say, "So you think you have got problems? Who doesn't. Shut up and get on with your life"
By Indian standards I am so so so much better off than 99 % of the population. Kids go through much more horrible times with their parents, and there is so much of poverty and illiteracy and so many other issues, that my issues are all nothing compared to it.
I did have my share of problems - but to a common person in India, my life is like everything they could ever dream of. I think my ex T also thought of me the same way, that I was some over spoilt brat with nothing else to do than complain and vent and into all this psychology business. I remember 2 and a half years back, he said after the first few sessions, that I was completely fine, and I didn't need any therapy after that. It has been 3 years now since then, and I am still needing therapy.
There is a huge huge difference in how they approach therapy in India and in the US. I am realizing that only now. Here people have all the luxury in the world, and they spend time and money and effort into becoming better persons. In India survival itself is a question, where is the time to become more happier and better?
> Thanks Tamar. You are right, I won't be getting a reply. I think he will never write anymore to me again, and I just have to let go and accept it.
>
> Besides, he probably would have forgotten me by now as well. And it will probably appear like I am trying to manipulate him into writing to me again - by inventing some new sob story.
>
> And besides I think they are not taught too much about all these transference and everything in India. He won't be able to grasp what I am going through, and maybe he will think I am just trying to flirt and cling on to him. He never was into too much regressing into childhood and stuff. Actually, anybody else in India would have straight away gone to that conclusion (that I am just trying to be flirty) if I had told them about all these attraction and stuff. Atleast he had much more exposure and common sense than other psychiatrists in India. A cousin of mine went to somebody else (a couple of other psychiatrists) and told me that both of them had absolutely no clue what they were talking about. She said they were totally worthless and really had no idea whatsoever about anything in life. I am glad mine had lot more knowledge and understanding than that.
>
> I guess I will stick with babble and my new T. The problem is I am so connected to him, so it would really help me. But maybe that is not the point.. maybe I should try to heal by myself.
Posted by Shortelise on May 9, 2005, at 17:11:16
In reply to I don't have to pretend anything here, posted by pinkeye on May 8, 2005, at 13:33:39
THanks pinkeye - another blessing to count, and that always helps.
ShortE
Posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 18:10:05
In reply to Re: I wish I could tell my ex T all this but scared » Tamar, posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 16:38:51
hmm on second thoughts.. maybe he might be able to understand me.. Maybe he knows about all these stuff like transference and stuff..maybe they didn't teach him too much, but I think he would have learnt it on his own. I think I should give it one last try.
And he might be able to help me out..And I can repay him by helping others. I know I have taken too much of his time already, but atleast I am helping others..and maybe he might think it is worth helping me.I don't know. But I think I definitely need to move past all these guilty feelings, and shame and anger and hurt and undeserving feelings somehow.. and taking too much repsonibility and too much of blame.. and all these confusion and conflict. It might save my life, and I could save several more if I am well.
I am breaking my head over this :-(
Posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 18:29:16
In reply to One last try?, posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 18:10:05
I am just obsessing here :-(
I think he meant that I shouldn't write anymore to him in his last email.. Otherwise he would have said I could write a few times more or something..And he made it very clear that he is very indifferent to me.. he said there was no question of liking me or disliking me. I think that means don't come here looking for approval anymore. and he said he found it difficult to keep helping me again and again as well..
So maybe it is a not a great idea. I am sure if I pester him anymore he will come back and say something harsh.. and I can't take it.
I am going to stop it here. no more of rambling.:(.. sorry guys.. it has been a very hard few days.
Posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 18:38:18
In reply to Maybe not a good idea, posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 18:29:16
I have read somewhere that people keep going in circles like me again and again.. better, worse, better, worse?
Do you guys think I am like that? That I go round and round in circles?
Posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 18:42:06
In reply to Am I cyclothymic or something like that?, posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 18:38:18
It has been so very hard - these past few days.. and I am not able to cope very well. and I am abusing this board so much...
There has been so many things coming back to surface from childhood, and I am not doing all that well. And I am not helping by being here..
I am going to take a break. See you guys in a couple of days. Thanks for putting up with me. I really should manage it myself.
Posted by Dinah on May 9, 2005, at 18:58:16
In reply to Taking a break for couple of days., posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 18:42:06
I've heard altogether too many "shoulds" in your posts lately, young lady. :) There are no shoulds on Babble.
If taking a break is what's best for you, then please take care, and we'll look forward to seeing you soon.
But pretty please could you go easier on yourself? You already do far more for other than most. Supporting three families. Going home to live with your inlaws. You need to indulge yourself a bit too. Put aside the shoulds for a few days and indulge yourself with wants?
Posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 19:07:40
In reply to Re: Taking a break for couple of days. » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on May 9, 2005, at 18:58:16
Thank you Dinah.. There is so much going on.. And I am not doing well at work for the past 3 months..
And I feel all these therapy and getting deeper and relying on your therapist and bringing all your childhood and healing yourself and everything is pure bull.. I think I was better off before.. It is extremely hard now. And I don't know how to cope.. I was better off by just keeping things inside myself and managing to be aloof.. I am completely collapsing and I guess regressing into childhood, and I can't afford it.
There always seems to be too much going on in my life.. my dad, and problem in childhood, and loneliness, and then rheumatoid arthris, and coming to the US, and struggling with loneliness and pain here, and then problems with my husband, and he getting into a religious cult, and my father and mother depending on me financially..things just don't seem to stop. and I am too weak to keep handling things. I am just too weak and stupid and I don't have the capacity. And now I have to go back to India, and live with my in laws in a joint family, and I don't know how I will manage having my dad and my husband together in life, and I don't know how I will support my paretns anymore. And my hurting over my ex T on top of all this. Way too much to handle.. and I want to go some place where nobody is there, and stay all by myself. I am much better off by myself.
Posted by Dinah on May 9, 2005, at 19:40:18
In reply to Re: Taking a break for couple of days. » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 19:07:40
"I am just too weak and stupid and I don't have the capacity."
You are not stupid or weak. I think most people would feel the way you're feeling in the same situation. Be angry at the situation for being overwhelming, not at yourself for being quite naturally overwhelmed.
Posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 20:24:19
In reply to Re: Taking a break for couple of days., posted by Dinah on May 9, 2005, at 19:40:18
why is life so hard? lot of people don't take any responsibility at all and fool around a lot, and life is good for them - like my dad - he keeps 3 servants, and is able to get everything taken care of for him.. first his father, and then my mom and then me.. and he is able to get by with taht.. and he doesn't have any illness to cope up with. and he hasn't really done anything even slightly challenging in his life..
I am trying to be very responsible and sincere, and genuine, and I get very hard problems.. I get all these chronic illness. and I am feeling like everybody around me expects me to take care of them.. and I am not capable of it. My husband also makes me feel guilty a lot.. if I don't cook one day, he starves himself the whole day - he won't eat out becuase it is not in his religious thing, and he makes me feel very guilty. And for 2 years he has been making me feel so guilty about everything - eating out, watching movies, talking to other men in office, wearing make up, even sex.. I feel suffocated, and everything is a sin.
And I feel the more I try to accommodate others, the more they are demanding of me. And the only thing I depend on them is when my arthritis gets bad.. And at the end of the day, everyone makes it look like it is all my fault, that I am the weakest person and they are protecting me. And both my dad and my husband make me feel so very guilty.. they both have some lofty ideals, and they keep imposing them on me.. and I am always the middle man, and they are 180 degrees opposite ideals. my father says don't, my husband says do.. my father says do, my husband says don't. And who am I to please? And I have to please them both.
Posted by Dinah on May 9, 2005, at 20:40:26
In reply to Re: Taking a break for couple of days. » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 20:24:19
Pinkeye, have you talked to your therapist about this? If not, could you bring in your post?
I often find that obsessions distract me from the very real things in my life that are painful, even if the obsessions are also painful.
You are taking way too much on yourself, and you'll make yourself ill. I had a lot of the same problems with my parents before therapy. (Believe it or not from how I talk about them now, they are no problem at all to me now as compared to before therapy.) My therapist helped me learn to create boundaries. To sort out what was their stuff from what was my stuff. If you don't cook as regularly as your husband might wish, he won't die. He could learn to cook himself. He could choose to have fun learning to cook. Instead he chooses to starve himself. That's his choice, and has little to do with what you do or don't cook.
You don't have to please either of them. You have to decide in your own mind what a wife or daughter should be, and then you can please yourself by living up to your own reasonable expectations. Because you *can't* please other people. You just can't. Because if you try to please other people, the results are out of your hands. It is *their* decision whether to be pleased or not. You can't *make* them be pleased. You could do everything wonderful, and they could *choose* to be displeased. And you could be as horrid as you like and they could *choose* to be pleased.
Decide what you need to do to satisfy yourself as a good person, and let those be your boundaries. If you *choose* to do more, let it be your choice, knowing that you are doing more.
And this comes from someone who truly enjoys pleasing others. So it's not that I think it's an unworthy goal. It's just an impossible one. So when I choose to please others, it's a gift, and a playful part of me. And I know that there are those who will be pleased and give me the response I enjoy, and there will be those who won't be pleased. And that's ok. Because it has more to do with their ability to be pleased than my ability to please.
You just need to find a few people in your life, friends or therapist or us, who are much easier to please than your husband or father, and can give you the feedback about being pleasing that you quite understandably wish to recieve.
Posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 21:04:53
In reply to Re: Taking a break for couple of days. » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on May 9, 2005, at 20:40:26
Thank you Dinah.. I am also realizing more and more that, that is perhaps the problem. My new therapist also says the same thing - that I take far too much responsibility and blame.
And I want to be a good daughter to my fahter, and a good wife to my husband, and a good person and woman myself, and taht is why I try to do my best. But I think both my father and my husband have the same problem - they are both extremely fanatic and dogmatic in their principles, and out of the world views.. and it is just impossible for me to please them by living in this world. I had the same problem with my dad growing up.. his demands of me was way out of the world.. I was a pretty normal child, in fact everyone used to say I was one of the best kids. I was very well behaved, studied well, never was naughty, and still I was not enough for my dad. He used to scold me and punish me.. even when I was in college, he slapped me one day because I was not learning stocks. He wanted me to invest in stocks side by side while I was studying, and I was jsut not into it, because he lost all the money by playing stocks and he was imposing that on me even after losing so much money. And I was good at studies, was in the 90 th percentile, and I got a job in a good company while I was in the final year in campus recruitment. And yet he slaps me for not learning stocks. And I have started earning and living on my own from when I was 20.. and haven't depended on my parents till now and ever since I came to US, I have been supporting them also, but even now he says that I should learn stock market.. he is very upset with me, because I am not learning it.
And my husband has the same pattern. I try to please him a lot - he wanted me to give up eating meat, I gave up, then he wanted me to give up eating eggs also, I gave up, he watned me to give up eating onion and garlic, and eating out in restaurants, and I gave everything up. And no movies, no going out.. even if we go to friends place, I cook and pack dinner or lunch for him, because he won't eat anywhere.. And he wanted me not to have sex with him, I gave up that also. For the last 3 years, we haven't had real intercourse.. only some kind of making up stuff, because he is against birth controls and we don't want to have kids now.. I agreed to all that. And now he wants me to go and live with his parents, and I don't want to live in the same house. I would like to live in separate house in the same street or nearby, and we can visit them everyday. But he is saying I am not beign a good daughter-in-law.
Anyway, I am just getting so bogged down with meeting everybody's demands. I think you are right.. you just cannot fulfill and please everyone.
But somehow I feel I am capable, and I should be able to do everything.. and I blame myself, and I am confused.
Posted by Dinah on May 9, 2005, at 21:23:13
In reply to Re: Taking a break for couple of days. » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 21:04:53
I think you're probably very capable. And very capable of doing many things.
But you're trying to do the thing that no one is capable of. You can't choose how others will react. That is totally and completely in their power.
Posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 21:25:06
In reply to Re: Taking a break for couple of days. » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on May 9, 2005, at 20:40:26
But how do you know you are a good person? And how do you know if you are being a good woman? That is why I go to extreme extents to be there for others.. to be a good person and a woman.
For soem reason, I always believed I was not a good person - from childhood I remember somehow I always thought of myself as not good. Everybody used to say I was good and nice.. But I always thought of myself as being bad, and arrogant.. in fact when I was in college, during the farewell, I was voted as the nicest person in the class. I never understood shy.
And I never know if I am feminine or being a woman. I always have trouble understanding that.. and my new T says that was caused by the way my fahter treated me - he intiially treated me like a tom boy, and always made me cut my hair like men, and wouldn't let me dress well - not wear jewellery or anything. And he would always make me wear very loose clothes, so there would be no shape.. And he used to say I was too smart for any man.. that nobody would like me, and that if I get married they would abuse me and slap me etc etc. He even used to kind of playfully slap me many times, saying that I needed to learn to be able to take it, becuase my future husband would beat me up anyway. All sorts of conflicts like these.
And I used to feel so ashamed about sleeping with him, he used to sleep on top of me, even when I was 14 or 15.. and made me sleep on top of him several times. And I would always help him dress himself, and would always be with him.. Even if I was playing with my friends, he would come and ask me to come with him and play with him. Several times in front of others, he used to carry me and hug me, and hold my hand, and I used to feel so damn ashamed. I thought he meant well, I still think he meant well. But I was extremely confused about my own body.. and I think those are the times you start developing your sexuality, and he should have withdrawn himself from being too close to me, and let me explore other ways of expressing it. Instead I feel he used it all to satisfy himself and didn't keep the boundaries with me. And I feel so very ashamed of my body even now.
And I think all these created huge conflicts and confusion and shame.. and I really don't know what it means to be a good woman and I tend to take all the blame on myself.
Posted by Dinah on May 9, 2005, at 21:30:31
In reply to Re: Taking a break for couple of days. » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on May 9, 2005, at 21:23:13
That reminds me of my therapist. I would talk, for example, about how I was able to cheer my father up, and present things in a way that he'd be less angry with my mother.
And he'd always add at the end, with emphasis "Your father (or mother) *chose* to let you..."
I think more than anything else in therapy, that had the most effect on me. I grew up thinking that I had way more power than I had, because my parents granted me that power. So since I believed I had the power, I also believed I had the responsibility to use it. So I was constantly anxious about stopping bad things from happening. My therapist pointed out to me that a lot of that power was illusion. That my parents allowed me to think I had that power, they *chose* to grant me that power, but that it was *their* choice to grant it, not mine.
So if your husband or father chooses not to let you please them, it is similarly *their* choice, not yours. And you could wish they made a different choice, but you can't *make* them by being smarter or more giving.
Posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 21:34:35
In reply to Re: Taking a break for couple of days. » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on May 9, 2005, at 21:23:13
I think I am decently capable of things.. And perhaps you are right.. nobody can please anyone else. maybe I should kind of look other ways to fulfill myself..
I am really very confused though.
Posted by Dinah on May 9, 2005, at 21:40:04
In reply to Re: Taking a break for couple of days. » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on May 9, 2005, at 21:25:06
That's a good question.
I think I chose role models a lot growing up, and probably even today. I had horrendous handwriting, so I'd find someone who's handwriting I admired and work until I could copy it, even if their riding had a leftward slant while mine had a natural rightward slant. I'd watch TV and see what looked like a healthy family and use those as role modeling for parenting.
I guess you could say that's not my own identity, but I'm not so sure. You could also look on it as defining what values or qualities I find valuable and striving to incorporate them.
What women do you think are good wives or good daughters. Is there someone in the movies or on TV? A famous person maybe? Or a friend or one of your parent's friends?
What qualities do you think a good wife or daughter has?
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