![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 30. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by daisym on October 20, 2004, at 1:22:38
I have a new homework assignment. I am supposed to write a letter to myself that clearly outlines all the reasons I have to live. I am supposed to include things about myself that I still do well, and those I love. I'm supposed to write it in a way that reminds me of my strengths and reminds me that there are those who care about me. And the letter is supposed to include reminders of the promises I've made to my therapist and others about at least talking it over *first*.
This assignment came about because last Thursday evening I lost it completely and couldn't remember any of these things. I couldn't reach my therapist (at least I called) but I missed his call back and things went south from there. A very good friend sat with me until I could keep myself safe, but she found me only by sheer accident. On Friday, I told my therapist what I had done (left home with pills in hand) and on Monday I told him the rest of the details. I can't answer the question of "how intense was your intent?" because it is all muddled up in a confused ball of hopelessness. In the light of day, I *know* there are other answers, and very real reasons to struggle against the seduction of suicide. But in that moment, when that intense despair takes hold, those reasons are lost into the blackness and I can't *think* at all. I only want the pain to stop.
We talked yesterday and today about frozen despair and about how it can be triggered, just like the memories get triggered. That sometimes I get paralyzed in that old fear and I really can't think or make judgments, or see that I'm not as trapped as I was when I was a kid. That I'm an adult now and I have other options. That I'm the mom now (and a pretty good one) and I have kids that love and need me. I just feel so overwhelmed and hopeless that the pain will ever, never stop. Sooo...my therapist is hoping that the letter will remind me to wait, until a real person can remind me why I should keep struggling. He even said he would write in his own reasons I should *wait*, if I needed him to. And he "coached" me about how to leave a "desperate" message. I had to laugh at that. He did a great impression of corporate me, my best polite message voice. He said he has no way of knowing if I am changing a time or jumping off a bridge.
At least he wasn't mad at me. He is concerned and wants lots of contact this week. I have a go away for business on Friday, Sat.& Sun and then I'm back for a BIG two day meeting with my own staff the following Monday and Tuesday. I can't even go to my regular therapy sessions, let alone extra ones. He suggested we meet late Monday night (7pm) for a "total support" session -- I know better, he's checking up on me.
I have no idea how to write this letter. It feels ridiculous and dramatic but at the same time, I tear up trying to think of the good things and what I would be leaving. I'm sort of a mess...and I have a mountain of work to get through....so I'm not Babbling a lot. I tried to catch up tonight some, but if I don't respond to a post, please don't take it personal. I am reading and I do care about everyone here. I like Dinah's stool analogy...Babble is one of my legs too. Can I also steal, "this too shall pass"? Or better for me, "it's OK, it's OK, it's OK, it's OK, it's OK, it's OK, it's OK, it's OK, it's OK, it's OK, it's OK, it's OK." Now if I could only believe it.
Posted by Dinah on October 20, 2004, at 2:11:47
In reply to It's raining, inside and out (trigger potential), posted by daisym on October 20, 2004, at 1:22:38
That's kind of where I'm at as well. My therapist wants extra sessions. I have two big deadlines coming up (plus my regular work), and I don't see me making them unless I work extra time, not less. So I feel sort of bad about not being more supportive to everyone right now.
My therapist has the big talk with my rational self scheduled for tomorrow. Blech. He doesn't have your therapist's deft touch. He's mainly concentrating on my faulty logic. That not being able to do things doesn't equal failure. Yada yada yada...
He'd do better to hammer away at guilt. :) He'll never get me to believe that not living up to my obligations doesn't equal failure. He's more likely to get me to believe that no matter how much I hurt, I can't hurt others to escape.
Ugh. Not sure how much help I am right now. Maybe it's just as well that I don't have much support to offer. :(
Nevertheless, Daisy, I think I'm going to try to hold on. I hope you do too. I'll hold out a hand as the current tosses me to and fro in the darkness. If it'll help, you can grab on.
Posted by mandinka on October 20, 2004, at 3:00:28
In reply to It's raining, inside and out (trigger potential), posted by daisym on October 20, 2004, at 1:22:38
You put it right there in your post, daisy - you're a good mom. The best feat a woman can pull off! To be a good mom you have to be a pretty good person in the first place!
Forgive me the little lecture but I think I should say this because sometimes I really believe it:
Try the following: list all the things you HATE about yourself and then ask why you should forgive yourself for them? That's what my great, new T2 told me to do. The reason I came up with was "I can forgive myself because all the things I think are wrong with me come from my internal pain". Without that pain and suffering I wouldn't have reasons to hate myself and my life! We're not created full of self-hatred and innate badness. This is a learnt ability. Once you accept the fact that your misery is not a product of your true self but is brought about by external circumstances, it will be easier for you to see the goodness inside you, find reasons to believe life can be beautiful and you ARE a beautiful person. I can tell you, without even knowing you well, that this is the truth. A given. We each carry at the very bottom of our souls a wellspring of unconditional love and true self-worth. Just shove aside the debris that covers it. Please stay around long enough to be able to hold on to this truth and let it guide you even when the goings get rough.
Big hug. I really feel for you. :)
Posted by fallsfall on October 20, 2004, at 7:50:42
In reply to It's raining, inside and out (trigger potential), posted by daisym on October 20, 2004, at 1:22:38
*** I know the letter will be hard to write. It is so hard for us to see and articulate our worth. You *HAVE* lots of worth, Daisy. I'm pretty good at editing - I could read your letter and suggest areas that you need to expand... 8^)
>That sometimes I get paralyzed in that old fear and I really can't think or make judgments, or see that I'm not as trapped as I was when I was a kid. That I'm an adult now and I have other options.
*** Exactly. This is why when you are *not* in such moments you need to firmly decide what you *really* want to do. So that when the black moments come you already have a decision (to live), and you already have a plan of things to do (call people who can support you). Because if you try to *decide* whether to do these things during the blackness, you will have a much harder time choosing to fight through the pain. It is like setting up a new law for your life - you essentially prohibit yourself from giving up. Remove that from the options you have to choose from. But that will only be successful if you have *other* options to choose from. The other options can be as simple as watch a 1/2 hour sitcom, or play a computer game, or bake cookies. Try to include letting a real person know that you are having a hard time. You can leave a message for a friend that says "Ugh - this is hard! I'm going to bake cookies now - can you check on me in an hour?" Maybe you don't want to actually talk at that moment, but I guess that letting someone know things are really hard makes me feel more *accountable*.
>And he "coached" me about how to leave a "desperate" message. I had to laugh at that. He did a great impression of corporate me, my best polite message voice. He said he has no way of knowing if I am changing a time or jumping off a bridge.
*** He is so smart. He is also giving you *permission* to call and not be doing OK. We are so used to holding it together. "How are you?" is followed by "I'm fine, how are you?". It is so hard to learn that when *some* people say "How are you?" that they really want to know the *TRUE* answer. That the *TRUE* answer isn't a burden for them because they really do want to know.
>
> At least he wasn't mad at me. He is concerned and wants lots of contact this week.*** No, he wasn't mad at you. Anymore than you are *mad* at your son when he gets anxious.
>I have a go away for business on Friday, Sat.& Sun and then I'm back for a BIG two day meeting with my own staff the following Monday and Tuesday. I can't even go to my regular therapy sessions, let alone extra ones. He suggested we meet late Monday night (7pm) for a "total support" session -- I know better, he's checking up on me.
*** Yes, he is checking up on you. But not because he wants to see if you are being bad. He wants to know if he can help you.
*** In my experience, a "total support" session means that he won't probe into the painful places, he won't try to solve things. He will help you to see reality more clearly, he will validate your pain, he will let you know that you aren't alone, he will give you comfort and encouragement. This is not a negative thing! And it isn't negative that sometimes this is what we need.
*** Think about a time when one of your kids had a fever. You bring them a blanket so they can get cozier on the couch. You bring them something to drink. You offer to make them food. You don't ask them to do their normal chores. You make them feel cared for. This is what a "total support" session is like. And you don't think that your kid is a burden for needing this support.
>
> I have no idea how to write this letter. It feels ridiculous and dramatic but at the same time, I tear up trying to think of the good things and what I would be leaving.*** Good. You don't *want* to leave. You need to get that idea very firmly in your mind. And heaven knows we (the "we" who know you - all of us) don't want you to leave.
>I'm sort of a mess...and I have a mountain of work to get through....so I'm not Babbling a lot. I tried to catch up tonight some, but if I don't respond to a post, please don't take it personal. I am reading and I do care about everyone here.
*** We all have our turn to need help and our turn to give help. Don't feel guilty about this being your turn to need it.
>I like Dinah's stool analogy...Babble is one of my legs too. Can I also steal, "this too shall pass"? Or better for me, "it's OK, it's OK, it's OK, it's OK, it's OK, it's OK, it's OK, it's OK, it's OK, it's OK, it's OK, it's OK." Now if I could only believe it.
>
*** How about "I am loved", "People care about me", "Some people - like your therapist - understand me", "I'm not bad".Love,
Falls.
Posted by Daisym on October 20, 2004, at 10:34:01
In reply to Re: It's raining, inside and out (trigger potential) » daisym, posted by Dinah on October 20, 2004, at 2:11:47
Thanks for the support Dinah. I know you are have such a rough time. It sounds like you are working hard with your therapist to get past this point. If you think guilt will work better, tell him. My therapist isn't shy at all about saying "what about your kids?" He is kind about it, but he doesn't pull any punches when we talk about this stuff, including how he would feel. I guess I never thought about how a therapist might feel losing a client/patient.
I'm so much better under pressure, I'll get my second wind here and get it all done. I always do. And I have a back up plan for next week. If I get to Nov. 8, I won't know what to do with myself. All my projects will be done. (*gasp* Now you know I shouldn't have said that! :) I'm sending you work energy and thinking good thoughts.
And I'll take that hand, if you'll take mine too.
It is nice to have friends.
Posted by Daisym on October 20, 2004, at 10:54:48
In reply to Re: It's raining, inside and out (trigger potential) » daisym, posted by mandinka on October 20, 2004, at 3:00:28
Thank you for the nice words and support. I think the exercise your therapist did with you is impressive and I can see how it would be effective. But bluntly, I'm in no shape to see a list of my flaws...even if the list is self-selected. And fundamentally, my intellect doesn't match my gut about why I'm flawed in certain ways. For example: I can say I'm not genuine with most of my friends because it is too scary to be vulnerable. This comes from csa. My head knows this. BUT, my gut says that I'm a coward and afraid people won't like me if they "really" know me. This goes along with those old feelings that the csa happened because I was "bad" or fundamentally flawed in someway. Which is the reverse of my head saying "you are like you are because of csa..." and around the circle we go.
I'm working on all of this. I never even realized that at my core I felt so flawed, so knowing this is progress (I think?). It has been a painful process to get in this far and discover this secret guilt. And it is really hard to hear my therapist say back to me everything I've just said, sometimes it feels like he is agreeing with me, confirming it all. He has figured out that arguing with me outright, appealing to my logic, won't work. (OK, he might say, "you know this already, children are never at fault...")What works is that he will then say what he believes, using "I" statements. "I don't think you are bad, or ever were," "I think you dad must have tremendous guilt about what he did," etc.
And he refuses to let me argue with him, pointing out that I don't have so much power that I can control his thoughts or feelings. (ouch, ego blow)I'm going to tell him about the exercise though, and see if we might want to work on it when I'm stronger. I think you were very brave to do this. I worry a lot about my therapist deciding that I'm too hard to work with. Giving him this list would feed that fear too...geez, I am a mess!
Thanks for the support.
Daisy
Posted by Daisym on October 20, 2004, at 11:04:13
In reply to Re: It's raining, inside and out (trigger potential) » daisym, posted by fallsfall on October 20, 2004, at 7:50:42
I really wish you lived closer. I could bake cookies and call you... I didn't even bake this weekend, my kids KNEW something was wrong. I made them cookies last night, so I guess things are moving in the right direction.
Thank you for offering to expand the letter. I think I'll need your pressure to get it written. Not that I think my therapist is going to let this go, he can be a bit like a dog with a bone. I should just write the letter about him and you, that would be so much easier! :)
As far as a support session goes, I think it would probably be a good thing for me to learn how to tolerate. I have this notion of always having to work hard on everything, not knowing how to accept support graciously. It makes me uncomfortable, like I'm going to pay for it later. Old feelings, I'm sure. I've been practicing this for awhile with Babble. I've even asked directly for support from you guys! That would never happen IRL. So I'm taking those baby steps.
Nice to have such warm arms to toddle towards. :)
Posted by Poet on October 20, 2004, at 12:26:24
In reply to It's raining, inside and out (trigger potential), posted by daisym on October 20, 2004, at 1:22:38
Hi Daisy,
I wrote my first suicide poem when I was 18; I wrote my obituary last May. I've never written a letter about reasons that I have to live.
Giving it some thought, I would start with people who like me even though I think I'm completely unlikeable. Friends. Even my therapist.
I don't think there are many people who need me, but your husband and kids need you. They wouldn't see the reasons that you don't want to live, they would see the reasons you should.
You seem very dedicated to your work. Add those people and the clients your agency serves.
So far you have friends (including babble,) your immediate family, your T, your coworkers.
All these people see a need for you and feel your love, kindless and concern for their wellfare. Keep adding to the list.
You aren't trapped as you were when you were a kid. I know it's tough for me to get that through my head when the darkness moves in and I see suicide as the only way out of it. Maybe in the letter you could write about why, as a kid, you felt suicide was the only option and what other options you see you have as an adult?
This might be easier for me, because I have poetry going back over 30 years. It's like a guide to my mental state. Though there are years where I wrote nothing. Hmm, what does that say?
Take care. Hope I helped.
(((Daisy))))
Poet
Posted by shortelise on October 20, 2004, at 12:41:49
In reply to It's raining, inside and out (trigger potential), posted by daisym on October 20, 2004, at 1:22:38
Daisy I do understand. My T calls it a trap door, and when I fall, there is nothing I can do.
As for how to write your letter - I would pretend to be the various people in my life, my husband, my best friend, my best friend's son, my sister, each of the other people in my life who would be destroyed by my suicide. I would write out how they see me, what they need from me, what they think of me, and from there I'd write my letter.
What a good idea.
DaisyM, did you know that children of people who commit suicide are themselves more likely to commit suicide?
hugs,
ShortE
Posted by daisym on October 20, 2004, at 15:51:01
In reply to Re: It's raining, inside and out (trigger potentia » daisym, posted by Poet on October 20, 2004, at 12:26:24
Thank you for the list Poet...it helps to get me started to think of those things. I guess I don't consider myself "unlikeable" just not all that forth coming. But I'm a great caretaker!
I have been writing poetry since I was 7...I remember my first poem when my mom was sick "I'm sorry you are sick, you'd probably rather play in the mud with a stick." Gosh, I was so deep. :) Actually, it occurs to me why I probably remember that poem and that IS sort of deep.
My middle kid is also a writer. He and I were talking about writing the other night and he said he would publish my stuff after I died. I said it was my hope to do it slightly before that but so much of what I write is personal. He said, "I think you write because it is something no one else can control, like dad...You write as a release." I was shocked and blown away that he had such insight for a 17 year old. I shared this with my therapist who said when he does family therapy, the parents are always shocked at how much the kids know.
Thanks for the support, especially since you are struggling yourself.
Hugs,
Daisy
Posted by daisym on October 20, 2004, at 16:02:17
In reply to Re: It's raining, inside and out (trigger potential), posted by shortelise on October 20, 2004, at 12:41:49
<<<<<DaisyM, did you know that children of people who commit suicide are themselves more likely to commit suicide?
>>>>OUCH!!! Now there is a guilt inducing statistic. The thing is that between 20 years old and 40 years old this was NEVER an option. I was sure I could get through anything. Now... I'm not sure of anything.I will work on the letter and I think your suggestion of looking at how others see me is a good one. Scary...but a good one.
Posted by antigua on October 20, 2004, at 16:11:17
In reply to It's raining, inside and out (trigger potential), posted by daisym on October 20, 2004, at 1:22:38
Dear Daisy,
I care about you a lot and I would miss you terribly if you were gone. I would miss having a cyber friend who was traveling the same road as I am, and who I can count on to listen and to encourage me when I am feeling the blackness and despair. At those times, I so easily forget that the pain will lift, that there is light beyond the darnkness, even though sometimes I have to wander through the dark tunnel all alone.
Your children love you in a way that they will never love another. You've cared for them and nurtured them to be the healthy children we were never allowed to be. You've given them a gift of yourself, and as they grow they will learn to know and love other parts of you that they may never have known existed if you were to let "it" win now. Maybe they would blame themselves, and wonder what it is that they did to cause this. You know it isn't them, they are probably the best thing about your life right now (mine are, for sure)and they are the reason you are here, but they may not be able to tell the difference.
We all love you, Daisy. I hope you can find the strength to fight these feelings off. Although it is still so very painful, you have come so very far...
I feel strong enough for both of us today, so I'm sendng you all of my strength to help you stay safe.
antigua
Posted by Aphrodite on October 20, 2004, at 19:09:11
In reply to It's raining, inside and out (trigger potential), posted by daisym on October 20, 2004, at 1:22:38
(((Daisy)))
I'm so sorry to hear things are hard. I think the letter is a good idea that will bring you into the here and now. When I have trouble remembering the good things, I try to remember compliments I've received. Maybe it's time to conjure up some of those to help with the assignment. It's also very encouraging to hear you have a friend IRL who can help you through those bleak times. One or two (or seven or eight) backup plans will ensure your safety.
If it's any help, if there has been any greater good or meaning from the pain you've experienced, I know that your empathy and understanding have gotten me through so many hard times in the last few months. You have an emotional intuition that can sense my pain and desperation though you've never met me and I live on the other side of the country. So, if nothing else, your life has helped me endure enough to see another day. For that, I am very grateful.
Posted by daisym on October 20, 2004, at 19:37:55
In reply to Re: It's raining, inside and out (trigger potential) » daisym, posted by antigua on October 20, 2004, at 16:11:17
Keep some of your strength for yourself, but I'll take you up on the offer of the rest. I am really struggling to remember everything you said. Thank you for saying it. It is nice to be loved.
I've been floating away all day, losing time, losing myself. I had a full-out panic attack during therapy...my poor therapist. He is doing more breathing than I am, I think. My sister has called or emailed me everyday for the past week. It seems that she is opening up herself to her own experiences, which sort of match mine, less the violence. But she dealt with it by going the alcohol and drugs route. She has been clean for 20 years but a family crisis sent her into therapy recently. I'm guessing that this has triggered in her a huge need to reconnect to me. I was always her mother. But the truth is I'm terrified by what all this means. The panic is about somehow losing my own therapist to her needs.
We explored this today, trying to sort out where it is coming from. She doesn't geographically live close, so it isn't reality based. Finally my therapist just looked at me and said, "I'm here for you and only you. You don't have to share." And I burst out sobbing that "I don't want to share you, but I feel so selfish." And then the room spun out of control and I went away. It took a good ten minutes for me to come back into myself and calm down. We need to go back and figure out what is under all of this, because it moves me back to the edge of that dark hole that I just sort of climbed out of. These feelings are really old, tangled up in my need to both protect her and get myself out of that environment. He suggested that perhaps "sharing" him is a way to describe the feeling of ignoring my needs again and I just can't tolerate that. So we practiced "you don't have to" and we talked about what my answer would be if she straight out asks about the csa. We've never talked about it to each other. She told my mom. I've never told anyone in my family. I'm not ready for the fallout, I might never be.
Just before I left today, my therapist said he gets most nervous when he senses that I feel that things have gotten out of my control. He knows how important that illusion of control is for me. He asked me if I could hand him the controls just for 24 hours, until we meet again tomorrow. I know it was metaphoric, but it was really hard to do. He said he promised he wouldn't do anything to tilt my universe, he was teasing, but he was gentle and sincere, so how do you say no to that? He said I need to rest and letting him have the controls would (hopefully) make me slightly less hyper-vigilent about EVERYTHING. I just needed to trust him. *sigh* I do, and besides I'm just so tired of all this.
OK, this was way more than I intended to write. Sorry, my fingers just run away with the words.
Mostly I wanted to say thanks for the support.
Posted by mandinka on October 21, 2004, at 0:23:49
In reply to Re: It's raining, inside and out (trigger potential) » mandinka, posted by Daisym on October 20, 2004, at 10:54:48
I talked to T2 today about you, daisy. She said that when a person feels like killing him/herself it is about anger that instead of being directed outward at the real culprit gets directed inward, at yourself. I guess this gives your inner child an illusion of control. If you believe "I'm bad" then it means things that happened to you were CAUSED by you, because of the way you are. There's power in it. It protects you from the realisation that you had no control over what was happening to you. Another thing - when you were a child you couldn't freely express your outrage at your abusers and now you continue to keep this anger pent up inside you in the form of self-hatred. Why not finally express this rage? How about some good anger work with your T? Screaming and beating the hell out of big, ugly pillows is sooooo much fun and very empowering!
Indeed, facing the reasons you hate yourself and taking them apart to see they are a huge lie, would definitely be a good thing, when you're in a better frame of mind.
I think it also wouldn't be a bad idea to keep that list of good things about you right next to the pills, so the next time you want to reach for them, you can reach for the list first...
I wish I could look you straight in the eyes when I say this, so you know that I mean it: Your badness is a grand illusion, a mere coping strategy. An emotional notion that you had control over things that were in fact beyond your control. Bad is NOT who you are! You are not bad, so why should you end your life over an illusion?! The truth is that behind this veil of self-deception hides goodness and love. Your therapist is smart enough to know that too. That's why Ts' job is to shower you with unconditional positive regard (without being a pushover and an enabler) - so you can finally accept that it is exactly what you deserve. Unconditional love and acceptance.
As for your friends: ever thought how many of them fake it too? I bet you'd be surprised if you found out the truth. In fact, from what I know most people wear a mask. Me included. You are not special in this respect. It's a sign that you weren't accepted for who you truly are as a child. Here's another two cents worth of my so-called wisdom: you do not have to earn love or friendship. Try this approach: if you don't feel comfortable being yourself around those people, then maybe they simply aren't right for you?! Why always look for fault in yourself?
Hang in there with us, daisy!
Posted by daisym on October 21, 2004, at 1:14:27
In reply to Re: It's raining, inside and out (trigger potentia » daisym, posted by Aphrodite on October 20, 2004, at 19:09:11
Such a nice thing to say, Aphrodite. I'm glad I could be there for you and you found comfort. I think gettng to know people "spirt-to-spirt" is more honest and can be more supportive in so many ways. I'm so much better at giving support than taking it, so feel free to lean anytime!
The funny part of my IRL friend is that since last week, she actually is questioning the "intensity" of my therapy. She thinks I should back off and not go so much, she's decided that I need medication (she's thought this for awhile) and I should "just" take care of myself. She doesn't know about the csa, though she is well aware of the other stressors in my life. I love her, but I don't want to defend myself to her, so I'm "fixing" things quickly to make her more comfortable. I think you can't really understand what it means to feel like I do, unless you've been there. I wouldn't have understood this 2 years ago, so I don't really expect too many people to either.
I wish I had a spouse to turn to, a partner who could just hold me close and shut it all out for awhile. I know you wish this too. I'm glad we have each other.
Posted by daisym on October 21, 2004, at 1:29:28
In reply to Re: It's raining, inside and out (trigger potential), posted by mandinka on October 21, 2004, at 0:23:49
Part of me wants to apologize that you wasted part of your precious therapy time on me...I hope you got something out of it too!
I have heard the anger discussion a number of times. I just don't feel it. Maybe it isn't time, maybe I'm so far under anger that I need to feel better in order to get angry. I feel outrage sometimes, usually for my siblings. Go figure.
We've talked about the control aspects of this and what, as a young girl, I might have needed to think to survive it all. So I think you could be right on there. But as far as feeling "bad", that illusion is part and parcel with the rest of this. I'll echo Poet, the bad stuff is so much easier to believe than the good stuff. And it is unthinkable that your parents could be "bad" so it had to be you, right? Again, my head and gut don't match. What I "know" and what I feel are very different. Which is probably why I exiled my feelings for 20+ years.
I'm trying to believe what you said. I'm trying to create that list and letter. It is pretty hard. I'm trying to believe that this will get better and there is an end in site. I want to earn my therapist's unconditional positive regard. :) Maybe I just want a hug. *sigh*
Daisy
Posted by mandinka on October 21, 2004, at 2:22:08
In reply to Re: It's raining, inside and out (trigger potential) » mandinka, posted by daisym on October 21, 2004, at 1:29:28
Big hug! No time was wasted on you during my session. It was my pleasure and will to help you out a bit.
I know your gut feeling and intellect are at odds. That's how it works for everyone. What I'm telling you comes from the part of me that is healthy enough to know better even when I'm at the bottom of despair. This deeper knowledge somehow pulls me through. So, even if your gut finds it hard for you to accept the thought, try holding on to the following: my T knows me better than anyone on the surface of this Earth (even if I put up a bit of an act) and still says I'm worthy of love. Maybe there actually is something to it?! :)
Even if it is very hard for you to bear your emerging emotions, it is good that you can feel them. It means you are not dead inside. I know this might sound like a cruel joke to you right now but feeling the things you couldn't feel once is the path to healing. Maybe your friend suggests medication because your pain on an unconscious level triggers her own and she tries to stomp down her own anxiety by talking you into dulling down your senses?
If anger work isn't an option for you right now, then soothing acceptace of your T, and cautious dipping into your pool of pain with slow, step by step resolving it probably is the answer. Maybe you should increase the frequency of visits? Can you call your T every day? You definitely need support. She's your best bet, so take your needs seriously and enlist her help.
From what you write I'd guess that you have high levels of shock. Anger work is good for trauma while this gentle release of pain with lots of support is good for shock, which is more primordial than trauma. If you have the "deer in the headlights" reaction and feel helpless in the face of adversity, then you're dealing with shock. Once enough shock is worked through you'll access the trauma part of your wounding. Then anger should emerge. That's my layman guess at least.
Let the adult part of you embrace the little girl inside that is full of pain. Try talking to her like you would to your own child when it cries. This is how you love yourself. I'd love to take that little girl on my lap and hold her in my arms. Can you do this in my name?
Posted by fallsfall on October 21, 2004, at 8:00:02
In reply to Re: It's raining, inside and out (trigger potential) » mandinka, posted by daisym on October 21, 2004, at 1:29:28
Posted by antigua on October 21, 2004, at 8:46:07
In reply to Re: It's raining, inside and out (trigger potential) » antigua, posted by daisym on October 20, 2004, at 19:37:55
I hope you are better today; if not, try to focus on being stable just for today.
I truly understand how you feel and I know how hard all of this is.
Is your adolescent girl behind this? Is she striking out because of the overwhelming pain? Or is it the younger Daisy or the adult you who just can't tolerate the pain anymore? Lots of questions, I know, but I care.
It's interesting you would bring up your sister. I have an older sister who I have had relatively little contact w/over the years (she has always hated me and I never knew why). In dealing w/my own therapy, I've come to realize that she was probably abused as well, but I don't know if she knows yet. She took a different path than me--she was very promiscious and spent many years w/alcohol and drugs. I bring this up because I got a letter from her a couple of days ago, asking me to bring my daughter and come visit her. I didn't even know where she was living.
I feel that she must want to talk, but as much as I would love to see her, she is unstable and very unpredictable so right now I have to stay away from her. It would be too much for me, as sad as that is. But I have to protect myself right now--so do you--and I'm going to decline the invitation. When I'm stronger I can face her, so don't you feel bad about your feelings for your sister. You have to focus on you and your family!
Also, I would love to release my anger but I just can't. Beating pillows, etc. just doesn't do it for me. Right now I'm dealing w/this intense transference w/my T--it's the very young child feeling dependent on her mother (or wishing she could be dependent), but her mother was never there. I have to trust my T and let those feelings out. And then maybe the doors will open a little bit more.
All my best to you, and I hope therapy is good for you today.
I still have plenty of strength for you and I'm sending it to you.
antigua
Posted by mandinka on October 21, 2004, at 19:46:57
In reply to It's raining, inside and out (trigger potential), posted by daisym on October 20, 2004, at 1:22:38
Please let us know...
Posted by Daisym on October 22, 2004, at 2:31:57
In reply to ((((((((((Daisy)))))))))) (nm), posted by fallsfall on October 21, 2004, at 8:00:02
Thanks Falls. You make me smile. It is nice to get what you need. Here's my squeeze back... ((((((Fallsfall)))))))
I think I'll linger here a bit.
Posted by Daisym on October 22, 2004, at 2:39:12
In reply to Re: It's raining, inside and out (trigger potential), posted by antigua on October 21, 2004, at 8:46:07
To answer your question, I *think* most of this unsettledness is the 12 year old. She is the one who can't handle anger and she is the one who had to care for her baby sister. So, angry husband and needy sister this week combine to bring out the worst in her.
I think you are wise to protect yourself from your sister right now. You've just been through a horrible trauma yourself and you don't need to get pushed near that edge again right now. Perhaps she does want to talk about stuff, but you have to be ready too. My therapist wants me to put limits up around my sister for myself. He thinks she makes me revert to giving away all of myself in order to keep her happy. So we are working on those self-preservation skills. Mostly I just need permission to be selfish around all of this for a while.
I read what you wrote about having an intense transference with your therapist right now. I'm surprised that still happens after 11 years. Do you know where it is coming from? And is it a good one (I need you) or a bad one, (you weren't there for me)?
Thanks for checking in. I'm still borrowing that strength, can you feel me pulling it through the universe?
Posted by Daisym on October 22, 2004, at 2:55:35
In reply to How are you doing, daisy? » daisym, posted by mandinka on October 21, 2004, at 19:46:57
I'm killing myself working...
Seriously, It is 12:29am and I just got home. I have a three day meeting to prepare for and then a 2-day one right after. 5 days in a row! At least there will be very little time for any of my youngerselves to get out.
I've been thinking about what you wrote about shock. It feels like that sometimes, especially when big pieces of memory drop in. It is hard to keep rebuilding this puzzle. I feel like I don't have to the top so I don't even know what I'm supposed to be making. And even though I feel like I've been working on this forever, my therapist reminds me it is only been a year since I first told about being molested and only 6 months from figuring out a lot more happened. This is not long in the realm of trauma work, I'm told.
BTW, my therapist is a "guy" -- which I know is unusual for women who are working on csa issues. He is a psychotherapist and uses a lot of self-psychology principles. He believes in frozen ego-states and works with the different age states. He is one of the gentlest people I've ever met and has unflinchingly been there for me through all of this. And he can be pushy as hell! :) I can see him as much as 4x a week if I want/need to and we usually have a phone check in over the weekend if things are rocky. I've heard from all the critics about over-dependency, etc. but he has fought so hard to get me to depend on him that when I call, he is THRILLED that I reached out and followed through. In the beginning, I tended to hang up a lot.
Today we had a nonproductive support kind of session because I'm leaving for a few days. Even trying to do that was hard, there are so many sensitive topics. So we talked about eco-psychology and decided maybe I should try camping to help heal what hurts. (NO!) I tried to convience him that shoe-shopping therapy was so much better. Mostly we just talked about this past week and how it felt to talk with him about being suicidal and how he felt about it, etc. He's still worried, I can tell, but I did agree to another check in on Monday evening. Now I just have to make it through the next four days. Sigh.
Thanks for checking on me.
Posted by mandinka on October 22, 2004, at 5:19:02
In reply to Re: How are you doing, daisy? » mandinka, posted by Daisym on October 22, 2004, at 2:55:35
I'm happy you have such a great GUY therapist, daisy (sorry about that). I'm sure that being overworked contributes to your stress and when you'll get over the worst period at work and will be able to have more time with your T you'll feel better. I don't believe in this overdependency thing. If you need support, you need support and that's that. I also resort to shopping when depressed! It elevates my mood (at least for a brief moment) but my husband's on the other hand can get pretty crabby. ;)
I think you are really brave to face all the things from your past (oh, there - you can add bravery to your list!). Of course this surge of material will make you feel very bad but in time it will get better and better. It's good you have a dedicated ally on your journey. Try taking it all one baby step at a time and don't neglect your needs. Maybe this camp idea isn't so bad?...
Please check in with us when you have a free moment! I'll be thinking about you.
Peace.
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