![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 12 to 36 of 41. Go back in thread:
Posted by David K. on January 19, 1999, at 19:40:09
In reply to Re: mood swings (well, a tangent thereof!), posted by Shelley in Seattle on January 19, 1999, at 18:22:23
That's weird... I'm the "default" computer guy where I work, too. I'm also the big cheese with our freshly installed (but totally unnecessary) NEW PHONE SYSTEM. (It does the same thing as the old one, but it more work, and requires TWO computer consoles in the phone closet, whereas the old system took care of itself. Corporate made us get it, but I still don't know why.)
ANYWAY ... in the 2 years that I've been at this place, I've been on meds only about half the time. There's a running joke among everyone how "Dave used to be a nice guy when he got here." Because I was so quiet. And probably because I had less responsibility. But ever since the meds first kicked in people have told me "I've changed." But it's really because I speak up more intead of burying my head in the sand, and it's definitely from the medication. (I've also gotten to see WAY TOO MUCH of how the corporate world works, and it makes me even more hopeless about the world.)
I've always had a fascination with death, but more ... um ... clincal and theoretical (I guess you'd say) rather than "artistic" or "aesthetic." I've had friends who were into the whole Gothic thing, with the black & red velvet and vampires and crosses and stuff, and I always wore black a lot, but it never really got into that. I don't really know why, either. But death and self destruction are definitely interests of mine ... real healthy ones, too. (Sarcasm.) I read lots of books about heroin addiction, even though I've never been on drugs (except the prescription kind, and even then, nothing good! Just antidepressants.)
But, back to mood swings, have you found any increase in "outgoing-ness" on the meds? I read somewhere that seretonin was linked to aggression, too. I wonder if that's the same thing?
And, heck, isn't EVERYONE in Seattle supposed to be depressed anyway?
Posted by David K. on January 19, 1999, at 19:46:30
In reply to Re: mood swings (well, a tangent thereof!), posted by David K. on January 19, 1999, at 19:40:09
... also (!) your comment about "setting boundaries" got me thinking. I think I try really hard NOT to set any boundaries. Then I get all pissed off when people don't respect my boundaries ... the ones I didn't set!
Hmm.
Posted by Mel on January 19, 1999, at 22:56:22
In reply to Celexa and increased mood swings, posted by Shelley in Seattle on January 18, 1999, at 16:00:26
Just got done reading this whole thread. I sure can relate. First off, yes, I have had some big mood swings since being on Celexa. The stuff makes me manic. (not to the point of hospitalization, mind you, although I could use the vacation...) I am in the process of weaning slowly off it because I am not crazy about jumping in place and not sleeping and the irritability and all that kind stuff. But on the upside, I sure do get a LOT done! Also, I too have constant thoughts of suicide, although some times are less serious than others. I thought I was the only person in the nation who was supposedly "cured" of my depression (since my therapist thinks I look "just fine", too) but still looks at every tree, telephone pole, and steep embankment as an "opportunity". I also belong to the "real good fakers" club. Nobody would EVER guess what goes through my mind on a daily basis. I too, end up being the jack-of-all-trades at work, no matter what job I hold. I always thought that came from the need to be appreciated from coming from a VERY dysfunctional family.
Posted by Shirley on January 19, 1999, at 23:18:59
In reply to Re: mood swings (well, a tangent thereof!), posted by David K. on January 19, 1999, at 19:46:30
It's been raining here in the Seattle area for over a week straight. I've read that Seattle has the highest incidence of depression (SAD?) in the U.S., but I've never been more depressed than I was last August when it was hot and sunny. We also represent the largest segment of the sunglasses market. Go figure. It's true....the cemetaries here do all have boring flat tombstones.
Re: being (calmly) suicidal. I sometimes wonder if having accepted this as the unavoidable result of who I am has created some kind of well-worn neurological pathway to my brain. Isn't this what the "kindling" concept of mental illnes is about? That these unacceptable responses to life are like hot coals that keep flaring up.
On David Sedaris: I just finished his book of short stories, "Holidays on Ice", and thought it was a pretty good literary antidepressant. My favorite stories were: "Santaland Diaries," and "Dinah, the Christmas Whore."
I agree that the "hit man" idea definately belongs in my Franklin. Roles and Goals Section? ; - )
NPBR Not Psycho-Babble Related?
Shirley
Posted by David K. on January 20, 1999, at 5:28:16
In reply to Re: Tangents, NPBR , posted by Shirley on January 19, 1999, at 23:18:59
I wonder about the suicidal feelings being "burned into my brain" as well. When the antidepressants kicked in, the first thing I noticed was that my suicidal thoughts wouldn't "stick." I used to just obsess on them and run them over and over and over (I used to imagine a groove running down the middle of my brain.) But when I couldn't "stay in the groove" suddenly, I felt profoundly uncomfortable. At night I'd even TRY to obsess about it, but it wasn't the same.
I miss it, in a strange way, but I've also developed a way of DELIBERATELY thinking about suicide... it's not MANDATORY, like it was, but I do it anyway. I imagine it's like an addiction... I heard that addicts' brains actually undergo changes ... maybe my brain did, too, from so many years of being screwed up.
Jeez ... now it's making me sad thinking that I'll be suicidal for the rest of my life...
Anyway, I certainly relate to that "everything is an opportunity" thing. A package came into work for the Lab, and was marked "tubing kit." I thought, "Hmm... I wonder if I hooked it to the exhaust pipe of my car...." Train tracks, too, are a temptation (although not REALLY... the WORST place to do it is a train station, actually, because the train is slowing down. Speed is key here! Plus, I've read stuff about how it traumatizes the drivers.)
I'd count all the times suicide crosses my mind today, but I have work to do at work, and I'd be making my list the entire day instead.
(All things considered, though, I don't think I'm anywhere NEAR actually "doing it." But I'll let you know if/when I am!)Also, in New Jersey we've got some good cemetaries. There's a small one on my way to work that dates back to the Revolutionary War ... so there's some really old, worn headstones. They're really tall and really thin, so some of them are broken. But it's pretty neat, historically and morbidly. (When I was in Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts or something we went there to do grave rubbings ... you know, get the image of the headstone onto paper. Not rub against the grave. That's a whole different psychiatric issue.)
P.S.: I betcha my Jack-of-all-trades thing has to do with a need to be all things to all people, too.
Posted by Sean on January 20, 1999, at 11:03:25
In reply to Re: mood swings (well, a tangent thereof!), posted by Shelley in Seattle on January 19, 1999, at 18:22:23
> It's kind of funny -- I have to put up a good facade for clients (I work in a clinic, but I'm also a sort of "Jane of all trades" around there. I am a computer geek-ess as well, and since we don't have a CIS person at my clinic, I am the person who does all their tech stuff, which I do enjoy but it's hard for me to concentrate with all the interruptions). Sorry! I guess I am chatty on Celexa too! :-)
> Anyway, so I have people asking me stuff all day, and I am usually gracious about it -- I am trying to work on setting boundaries, but it's very difficult to do that where I work.
> My co-workers and the FEW friends I haven't alienated (I have been clinically depressed for over 5 years -- to give you an idea of how I've been until very recently, my other email address is misanthropia@antisocial.com. It's true!) know that I have this weird preoccupation with death. My favorite place to be is in a cemetery -- not the boring, nothing-but-rows-of-flat-stones-on-the-ground ones they have here in the northwest! I am talking of those grand places in New Orleans, or the rural cemteries back East that I walked around for hours in until just a few years ago... Also, death is a major theme that presents itself in my art.
> As for therapy -- I am at a weird place with my therapist right now. I have been going to her 3 times a week for about 5 months now (I saw someone else for a long time before her), and I thought I was making progress and then I realized I was indeed still stuck. Then one day she just totally changed her tone towards me -- this is after she would laugh at my David Sedaris-type family stories with me. She became very cold and withdrawn, and said she didn't want to laugh at my horrible childhood stories anymore. I told her that laughing at it (now, as an adult) is probably the only reason I am not dead today. We are working on it, and it's hard for me to switch therapists. That's why I saw the last one for so long, even though the 'fit' was gone for a long time. Even now, after going 3 times a week for 5 months, she just barely has the whole story. I hate to have to tell it over and over again, so I am hoping we can get over this spot and learn something from it.
> Oh, I just remembered that I have some Kava in my cupboard at home -- I think I'll try that for sleep tonight. I get so wound-up on Celexa! Not that I am complaining too hard, after having spent most of the last few months in bed anytime I wasn't working.
> Well, I hope you have a good night!Shelly, I can relate to the humor factor in terms
of dealing with the painful and crazy family stuff.
This is part of the culture of my family I guess,
because we all seem to do it. And drink...But over all the years of therapy and pain, I have
become far less tolerant of the humorous side of
it, especially when I see the same thing passed on
to children of my siblings. When I see how unfair
it is to take impressionable, dependent children
and subject them to all manner of neglect and
abuse, it really gets to me. Slowly, over time,
I began to recognize this in myself and it really
started hurt.There seems to be pretty good evidence that in
addition to whatever genetic vulnerability a
person inherits, the environment works very closely
with this and actually causes physical changes in
the phenotypic expressions of personality and
likelihood of developing affective disorders. When
you think about it this way, it brings a new
realism to the term "fucking with my head"!Anyway, viva humour... but you can laugh yourself
into the grave...
Posted by Shelley in Seattle on January 20, 1999, at 16:29:44
In reply to Re: Tangents, NPBR , posted by David K. on January 20, 1999, at 5:28:16
Hi, all! I'm getting a late start today because of a never-ending meeting (hey! I should just call a meeting at my place when I need to sleep!) ... Zzzzzzzzzzzzz......
Wow! There are some great posts here today -- where to start? :-)
I strongly identify with the notion of being nearly everything to everybody (in some capacity -- yes, David, I too program the phones here! Weird! But then, I can put all kinds of silly names on my intercom display, so that when I call someone it says "God" (or whatever) is calling! :-) stems from growing up in a severely dysfunctional family. I have been exploring that in therapy recently.
And I do the same things with boundaries -- I try to set them sometimes, but then I get upset whenever someone seems to step over my boundaries even if I had none! It's difficult for me to express it sometimes, because it feels like such a weird thing.Re: suicide ... When I realized (very recently) thatI really didn't hold suicide in my mind as an option anymore, I felt a loss -- it was, um, depressing. It had always been my last-resort way out, and then it suddenly just didn't seem available to me anymore. And I had a grand plan! Weird.
Re: Goth, etc. -- I was never into the clothes or the scene, though I tend to favor black anyway (goes with everything and it's less work sorting laundry! :-), and I would say my interest in death is usually more aesthetic but I love to read those true crime books, and I have a set of Writer's guides pertaining to death. Those are great! I read all about various poisons, etc. I think when I read 'true' crime stuff, it's more for the psychological aspects than the gory details. I was a psych major in college (my primary motivation was to try and figure out my very dysfunctional family), and so-called abnormal psychology has always fascinated me. Takes one to know one, maybe? :-)Shirley, I do think you are on to something re: SAD & Seattle. It's strange, because I take comfort in gray skies and rain and really don't like the hot weather (that's one reason that I was lured from the east coast to Seattle) and I tend to be more depressed during long, hot months. Today, it was briefly sunny after so much rain -- it was nice to see blue skies for a while. Isn't that why Starbucks is taking over the world now? I mean, I could have a tap for coffee in my kitchen with as much I tend to inbibe! I didn't even like coffee until I moved to Seattle!
Re: David Sedaris -- have you read "Naked" yet? The story about the brown towels ... I really couldn't stop laughing, and I was on the bus while I read it! *grin* I love his stories!
Well, fellow Jacks and Jills of all trades -- hope you are having a fairly decent day!
-Shelley
Posted by Shelley in Seattle on January 20, 1999, at 17:27:24
In reply to Re: mood swings (well, a tangent thereof!), posted by David K. on January 19, 1999, at 19:40:09
I forgot to include this in my other reply -- Yes, I am more outgoing on the Celexa. I would not call it aggressive, but I am at least being minutely social. In the deepest points of this 'current' depressive episode, I would get on the bus, put my walkman on and bury my nose in a book to avoid conversation. Now I try to use the walkman only if I need to (screaming children, etc), and I had the nicest chat with a guy re: writing code and other geeky computer stuff. It feels nice to be poking my head out of my shell.
Also, I have been more verbal about boundaries, etc. And I am not as deeply frustrated over things.Mostly, I just can't keep still. Got that leg-jiggling thing going! I bet I have walked 10 miles under my desk today! :-)
Posted by David K. on January 20, 1999, at 18:00:33
In reply to Re: Tangents, NPBR , posted by Shelley in Seattle on January 20, 1999, at 16:29:44
That's really strange that we're both the "phone people" at work. I got appointed a) because there's no one else and b) because I was already the "computer guy." (To be a computer genius, all you have to do is be able to find stuff in Help or in the Manual and show people how to do what you just read up on. Duh.)
I'd probably get caught if I put silly names for each phone, but just wait until the Plant Manager learns that there's an option on the Main Menu to get straight to him ... ("For the Plant Manager, dial 3" ...) Heh heh heh. He doesn't know why he's suddenly getting so many calls from solicitors.
Being the phone guy is a great passive-agressive outlet.
Anyway. I agree with Sean that humor isn't always such a good thing. I mean, I laugh all day long, especially at bad things, mostly for a lack of any other emotions. And I can see how that can get to be very destructive, especially in a family environment.
The Writer's Guide about Death sounds really interesting to me. True Crime is interesting to me, too, but I'm a little scared of it ... although I like Jim Thompson "hard boiled" crime books.
I thought I recognized that "David Sedaris" name ... a guy at work lent me a tape of that book with the "brown towel" / OCD story. It was pretty funny ... there was another one in there that I liked even more, although I don't remember it now ...
Aren't there, like, nine million Starbucks in Seattle?
Posted by Shelley in Seattle on January 20, 1999, at 19:07:10
In reply to Re: Tangents, NPBR , posted by David K. on January 20, 1999, at 18:00:33
I hope your plant manager gets a lot of interesting calls, David! I remember from one of your earlier posts that he is not a very nice fellow. Luckily, it's a pretty laid-back atmosphere where I work. They think it's funny when I do silly things like that - it breaks up the monotony of the work day.
In response to Sean and humor -- (I apologize for not addressing it earlier, I skipped over your post by mistake when the board was being slow) I know it can be detrimental at times, but it's a defense mechanism that I have developed over many years, not to mention a coping strategy. I think it does add fuel to the fire when I use humor to dispel something that needs attention. As an adult, I realize I can't change the horrific childhood I had. I can try to develop compassion for the child inside me who went through it, but I get tired of the "poor-me" feeling that comes up when I have to think about it. Laughing at the ridiculousness of some of it now helps it not to sting. That doesn't mean I trivialize it, I just have to deal with it in the way that is right for me at this time. Just for the record, the story I told my therapist that sparked all this WAS funny to me now -- I don't think I hold any pain from this particular event. I had heard David Sedaris tell a story just the night before, and so it came out in a similar type of delivery.
My "family" didn't use humor. That's something I developed on my own. I can understand your concern for your nieces and nephews; I see my sister becoming more like my mother everyday, and she's making a lot of the same mistakes with her child that my mother made with us. I know what it's like to be on the receiving end of abuse and abject neglect from a parent. I never think that's funny. Ever.
Yes, some days my smile is a mask. We all have days like that.
Posted by Mel on January 22, 1999, at 13:27:04
In reply to Re: Tangents, NPBR , posted by Shelley in Seattle on January 20, 1999, at 16:29:44
Hmmmmm. Interesting thought on the grieving for loss of suicida thoughts. Maybe that's why even when I'm feeling better, I can't seem to get rid of that "stash" of meds that are *just* enough for a lethal dose. Maybe I am afraid of going into a grieving state.
I loved your little inside on programming the phones. That would be hilarious to be "God" calling someone.
I agree with you some Sean about the humor. I know it has been used inappropriately in my family sometimes. But now that I'm in a more sane situation, it can help sometimes to laugh at myself.
BTW: Who's David Sedaris? Obviously an author. Never heard of him.
~Mel
Posted by Shelley in Seattle on January 22, 1999, at 14:06:35
In reply to Re: Tangents, NPBR , posted by Mel on January 22, 1999, at 13:27:04
Mel, I too had that just-enough stash until just a couple months ago. I can't figure out when that option dissipated for me, but I truly did feel the loss.
David Sedaris is indeed and author who writes about all kinds of things -- family stuff, odd jobs he has had (Santaland Diaries is an absolute SCREAM!), etc. -- but the best part is when he reads them aloud! He's got a great, distinctive voice that cracks me up!
Glad to see the server is back up. I missed this board yesterday :-(
Posted by Chris A. on January 22, 1999, at 18:07:07
In reply to Re: Tangents, NPBR , posted by Shelley in Seattle on January 22, 1999, at 14:06:35
Stashes have been a problem for me too - even just having
my regular meds around can be a problem. My pychopharm is
excellent, but he never asks me what I'm planning to OD on,
probably because he doesn't want to hear that it includes a combo
of meds he's prescribed.
My spouse kept a couple of grams of a particularly lethal med on hand last
winter in case a family member contracted influenza. That stuff
hounded me from the shelf, especially during the days with more suicidal ideation.
I couldn't throw it away but finally convinced him to do something with
after forcing him to read the PDR entry. There is definitely a part of
me that grieves over having done that.
I wish caregivers and family members would be more sensitive to this
for those of us who struggle with the constant temptation of suicide.
suicide. On the other hand...please don't mess with my stash. I might
need it.Chris A.
Posted by David K. on January 22, 1999, at 18:13:58
In reply to Re: Tangents, NPBR , posted by Shelley in Seattle on January 22, 1999, at 14:06:35
I felt a "loss," too when I thought my suidcidal feelings were gone. Having them seems like some sort of "out" or potential pressure release. Or something.
I think that's also what kept me from getting myself to a psychiatrist for so long. This last time, when things were insufferably bad and I just couldn't seem to decide to live or die, I still just WOULDN'T make an appointment. I finally admitted to myself one day, while lying in bed after work as usual, that the reason I wouldn't call was that I was just TOO IN LOVE with my depression.
I asked a friend to make the appointment for me, since then I'd "have" to go. Luckilly, this turned out to be the only doctor that I actually LIKE, so going every week isn't a chore. (In fact, today I was thinking, "I get to see Dr. _____ tomorrow!" I'm spending tons of money, and it's like a TREAT ... ! Wacky.
(Insurance doesn't cover much, but I figure I'll either improve and it'll be worth it, or I'll be dead and then the money won't matter anyway. So I can't really lose. Right?)
Posted by David K. on January 22, 1999, at 18:38:07
In reply to Re: Stashes, Tangents, NPBR , posted by Chris A. on January 22, 1999, at 18:07:07
I had a hollow-point 9mm bullet that I swiped from my brother, a policeman. That was my version of a "stash," I guess. I eventually gave it to my doctor, and regretted it ever since.
Funny thing is, I never had a gun to put it in ...
(Although I guess just being "one step closer" was satisfying enough. For some reason I'd be afraid to go buy a gun & bullets for fear that the saleperson would know my intentions. Like it would even MATTER if they knew.
Sometimes I guess my suicidal thoughts are like an itch I have to scratch ... I don't think I'm ever "crying out for help" (no one ever knows about it except my doctor) and I haven't been really SERIOUS about it in a long time. But I still think "Maybe today I'll just ...."
It's sort of good to know that others feel this way, too, though.
Posted by Shirley on January 22, 1999, at 23:51:15
In reply to Re: mood swings (jokes about serious stuff....), posted by Sean on January 20, 1999, at 11:03:25
Sometimes, and everyday, I wonder if all the ditropan, effexor, trazodone, plus my husband's three month supply of anafranil would be enough to do me in--not just sick, but dead.I know I probobly won't do it tonight, maybe not tomorrow even. I just wonder how I could live this way another 40 years! Ever try to live a life devoid of pleasure or meaning??
I don't mean to offend anyone, or try to put a funny spin on it, but what I wouldn't give for a bottle of Leonetti and a bottle of Vicodin. Does it give you some measure of comfort to here me discuss it without a trace of humor?
Yes, there are a billion Starbucks in Seattle....I truly believe my children would have a happier, more peaceful life without me here. Their Dad is a much better person than I.....
Shirley
Posted by David K. on January 23, 1999, at 16:21:02
In reply to Re: mood swings (jokes about serious stuff....), posted by Shirley on January 22, 1999, at 23:51:15
I went through a phase of "thinking about" pills, but then got hold of that euthenasia book "Final Exit" and found out that you've got to have LOTS of pills to do it right. (Prescription, stuff, too, not over the counter stuff.)
(If this is wrong ... don't tell me ... I probably shouldn't know.)
Shirley's last comment about her children being better off without her & her husband being a better person/father is a classic example of the suicidal "constricted thinking." [Now that I've named it, don't you feel LOADS better? ;) ]
Over the years I've learned to be able to tell when my thought patterns are "constricted" like that, but, honestly, I don't really care ... even if my thought pattern is supposedly absurd and untrue ("everyone hates me," "I'm no good," etc.,) it's still my reality at the moment, you know?Sigh.
(By the way, I mentioned my cop brother a post or two ago and my chiropractor brother somewhere else on the board. I've got two brothers. Is it carzy to worry that people would read both posts and think I was lying & not keeping my story straight about a single brother?)
The things I waste my time thinking about ...
Posted by Mel on January 23, 1999, at 17:06:57
In reply to Re: Tangents, NPBR , posted by Shelley in Seattle on January 22, 1999, at 14:06:35
Shirley: No kid is ever better off without their mom - at least that's my opinion.
Shelley: What do you mean "when he reads them aloud"? Does this author do radio shows or am I just very culturally impaired here in the midwest?
David K: I saw that other post you were talking about that mentioned both your brothers. I just had to read a couple times and I knew you were talking about two brothers. By the way, if you would've made it in to buy a gun for your bullet, wouldn't it have been nice for that salesperson to ask what you needed the gun for so you could tell someone? I always find that so many people that know me see me as happy, or downright "perky" (for lack of a better term right now) and I would sometimes LOVE to shatter the illusion...
Chris A: What kind of lethal med did your spouse keep around for influenza? I am just curious...
everyone: Do you think it's just a control thing (meant in a good way) in regards to being able to keep a stash or whatever around? Is knowing you have the option to take your own life if you so desired a comfortable thing? I sometimes think that I feel so out of control with my emotions that it's nice to have that stash so I feel like I have some control over this crazy brain of mine.
Posted by Shirley on January 24, 1999, at 3:50:51
In reply to Re: everything, posted by Mel on January 23, 1999, at 17:06:57
Mel: I wanted to respond to your comments from my perspective, and hope the others will not mind....
> Shirley: No kid is ever better off without their mom - at least that's my opinion.
I know. But I still feel the same.
> Shelley: What do you mean "when he reads them aloud"? Does this author do radio shows or am I just very culturally impaired here in the midwest?
David Sedaris is a National Public Radio ("NPR")Commentator, according to the bio included with the book. I've not heard his radio program, though. Amazon sells his books; the softbound editions are inexpensive and fun.
By the way, if you would've made it in to buy a gun for your bullet, wouldn't it have been nice for that salesperson to ask what you needed the gun for so you could tell someone?Something tells me gun shop people don't really care what you're buying a weapon for: They're all meant for killing something or other. My hunch is that most strangers don't care to have their day ruined by some mental case claiming he/she wants to kill himself. Heck, I have done what I was supposed to do to "tell" someone about this desire I have (it's really about a lack of desire) to end it, and they sure didn't seem very moved to do anything. It reinforces for me that I am indeed right about myself: I AM worthless! I guess I'd laugh if I read that pathetic statement, thinking it was overly dramatic and stupid. I really don't know anymore what this is about; all I know is that I'm frequently (not 24 hrs a day) unbearably empty, confused, and not "getting it". The people around me seem contented. I don't understand how they do it. To me, my expected life span seems way too long.
Chris A: What kind of lethal med did your spouse keep around for influenza? I am just curious...
I was wondering the same thing.....
Posted by David K. on January 24, 1999, at 6:54:14
In reply to Re: comments, posted by Shirley on January 24, 1999, at 3:50:51
Shirley: Would you ever encourage SOMEONE ELSE to commit suicide? (I'm not thinking of terminally ill cancer patients, etc.) Because while I'm busy having "suicidal ideations" all the time, friends have felt suicidal themselves and I've tried to convice them it was a bad idea. It's only a good idea for ME!
Also, do you think anyone other than yourself is "worthless"? I've found that while I think I'm stupid & worthless, I'm a hell of a lot easier on everyone else on the planet! If I make a mistake at work, it's because I'm unqualified & stupid. If someone else does, it's no big deal: people make mistakes.
I know what you mean, too, about feeling overly dramatic. But maybe suicide is such a BIG, BLACK AND WHITE way of thinking/feeling that it always comes off as dramatic. I dunno.
Posted by Chrisa A. on January 24, 1999, at 13:26:55
In reply to Re: comments, posted by Shirley on January 24, 1999, at 3:50:51
Chris A: What kind of lethal med did your spouse keep around for influenza? I am just curious...
> I was wondering the same thing.....Dear David and Shirley,
Forgive me for getting your curiosity aroused. I
edited out the name of the med from my first post,
because I don't want for someone else to off
themselves with it. I know how tempting it was
for me. It is too available from harried primary
care docs at this time of year who may not be
attentive to the risk for suicide because patients
needing the meds are presenting with other symptoms.
Hopefully my hubby learned that when he's prescribing that
patients only need half of what he dragged home to
ameliorate the course of Influenza A. He's a pack rat
and my last serious attempt (almost seven years ago)
was mostly on samples he had stashed in the garage.
He doesn't bring any samples home anymore, which is fine
with me. If we really are in need of something we can get
it 24 hours a day less than two miles away.Frankly, I am sick of fighting this battle with suicidal
ideation/pressure/bipolar II and either need to get out or
get a life. Both are easier said than done. I have
the best medical/psychological care available in my
area, so guess it's up to me. I even have a good
family - I just need to appreciate them more.
Posted by Shirley on January 24, 1999, at 18:35:10
In reply to Here's one for you..., posted by David K. on January 24, 1999, at 6:54:14
> Shirley: Would you ever encourage SOMEONE ELSE to commit suicide?
No. If I am to believe what I've been told (and read), suicidal tendancies are a symptom of mental illness. Evidently, it can be treated. I'm not sure why you asked, though. I hope you don't think that I am advocating or in some way glorifying suicide; I am not.
> Also, do you think anyone other than yourself is "worthless"? I've found that while I think I'm stupid & worthless, I'm a hell of a lot easier on everyone else on the planet!
Well....the short answer is that yes--I do think of lots of people as worthless: violent criminals, and other cruel types. But I don't compare my "worthlessness" in a global sense. I usually feel worthless within my own social setting (work, family, etc.). That's prob. more of a self-esteem issue, though. I can't explain it; I just get confused sorting it out. All I know is I always carry with me this feeling of impending doom. I think that eventually this thing will beat me. It feels beyond my control. Of course I don't wish this for others to go through.You mean you never even think of your boss as worthless??? My boss makes us come up with little "wishes" for our office wish book. Funny thing is the only suggestions good enough to go in the wish book are HERS. She means well, though. We wished for new office carpet and a retreat in Hawaii.
Best,
Shirley
Posted by David K. on January 24, 1999, at 20:15:36
In reply to Re: Here's one for you..., posted by Shirley on January 24, 1999, at 18:35:10
I just asked about whether you'd think it was "okay" for other people to commit suicide because I don't think I'd condone it for anyone else ... I'd probably never say, "Yeah... I agree ... resistance is useless!" Except in reference to myself. I was just wondering if you had different standards for your own life & other's lives (like I seem to.) I guess no one in their "right mind" would condone or glorify it, though, for anybody. (I didn't think you were, either, by the way!)
> You mean you never even think of your boss as worthless??? My boss makes us come up with little "wishes" for our office wish book. Funny thing is the only suggestions good enough to go in the wish book are HERS. She means well, though. We wished for new office carpet and a retreat in Hawaii.
>Well, you've got me on that one. I DO think my boss is worthless, but that's not because he's my boss (I've had other bosses that were okay) but because he's a bad, bad man. I've tried, but I can't find ANY good in him at all! (I don't think he even means well.) He's so unbelieveably insecure and petty and nasty and he's definitely got more mental problems / social problems than I ever possibly could! Trouble is, I don't think he has any idea how screwed up he is!
About thinking of other people as worthless, though... I meant more like ... um ... "regular" people rather than murderers & criminals. Do you think ANYONE'S/EVERYONE'S life is inherently valuable? I'm not sure if anyone's really is, but my way out of that philisophical alleyway is to figure that I can make that decision about MY OWN life, but not others'. I was just at my friends' daughter's birthday party today ... she's one year old. I just can't/won't believe that her brand new life is as pointless and arbitrary and worthless as mine. Hypocritical, eh?
Of course, I think any self-destructive tendancy is probably a sign or mental illness, right? You're "just not" supposed to want to do yourself in (again, overlooking terminal illnesses, etc. which opens up a whole 'nother can of worms.)
I'd just like to know more about the Psychology of suicide & suicidal thoughts ... and WHY I'M LIKE THIS ... you know? But I don't suppose anyone really knows the "whys."
I dunno ... I'm just curious to see what's running through other people's minds, since this isn't really a subject that I can just chat about with anyone. You know?
Posted by Shelley in Seattle on January 26, 1999, at 12:48:05
In reply to Re: Here's one for you..., posted by David K. on January 24, 1999, at 20:15:36
Wow, I am so glad to finally get on here today! This board must be very busy -- I couldn't load it at all yesterday!
One stray thought before I begin -- I can ASSURE you that I would have been better off without my mother. I am still trying to un-fuck my brain because of what that woman did to me. (oooh, my - do you detect a note of bitterness?? :-|
Moving right along -- David, you asked if any of us thought other people were sometimes worthless (besides ourselves). I must answer with a resounding "Yes!" I go through a lot of days thinking how pointless EVERYTHING seems to be. Consume; work more to consume more and bigger and better things; run through life at breakneck speed only to realize, on your deathbed, that there was no punchline -- life was just a bad joke; there is no meaning and there is no point and what good is it to try to lead a good life where you try to be mindful of others' needs and tread lightly upon the earth? It never seems to do any good. *deep breath* (This is a glimpse into my gray matter - this kind of stuff is on an endless loop in there, though the intensity has decreased with the Celexa). And I still try to live that kind of life anyway, because I know the difference even if no one else does. I couldn't live with myself any other way.
I am not totally preoccupied with this stuff now, but when I sit and observe the world I get very disheartened. I feel that there is not much hope most of the time. This is probably just me projecting, but it seems present even when I don't feel totally depressed.
Sorry. I was just answering the question, as I sometimes see it.
As for whether I would ever say to someone else that suicide was okay (beyond the terminal illness stuff, etc.) - it's kind of an ironic question for me. I am an HIV/AIDS educator, and I perform HIV tests & work on a info hotline (among the 3,000 other things that I do here as well, that I have already mentioned in other posts). I sometimes have to tell people that their serostatus is positive. I have to assess them for suicidal ideation. It's not as bad now as it was 3 or 4 years ago, before protease inhibitors - but when I worked on the hotline back then, I often talked with people who wanted to die. Even before they were symptomatic. It's a dichotomy for me, because I truly understand the desire to die (or, to 'just make it stop')… and I believe in an adult's right to choose. But when these decisions are made in a less stable frame of mind, as they usually are, I then have to question if they have really considered other options. It's a huge dilemma for me. But I never let them see that.
I have talked with friends when they were depressed and suicidal. I guess I have to admit I always try to dissuade them, even though I empathize.
As to the issue of control - yes, I do believe that is a large part of keeping a stash around like a security blanket. When one gets so depressed -- when it seems you have no control over anything else in your life, you can at least feel that you could control your death if you need to. You can make it stop, just cease to exist anymore.
That's why I grieved the loss when I realized suicide was no longer an option for me.
Geez, I am chatty on Celexa….
Posted by Shelley/Seattle on January 26, 1999, at 13:03:03
In reply to Re:Here's one for you...I'll talk(& talk & talk..), posted by Shelley in Seattle on January 26, 1999, at 12:48:05
My browser crashed and I didn't see it posted.
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