![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 37. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by 10derHeart on May 31, 2005, at 11:46:28
In reply to Re: Would people even want to meet me?, posted by Deneb on May 31, 2005, at 10:54:23
> I'm sorry for assuming that people will want to meet me. I'm quite pathetic really...my social life consists entirely of interacting with people here. <<
There's no reason to think anyone wouldn't want to meet you. And if Babble is all you have right now, so be it. Thank goodness you found us, then, right? Doesn't equal pathetic and even more - doesn't mean it will stay that way. You're young, smart, strong and a fighter. You might meet someone next week, even at the fast food job you don't like, and you might click. Who knows? Friends can be anywhere.
I fall into some of the same categories as you, and I know I'm not pathetic. I need more IRL relationships. You say you only have Babble, but, your fast food job is a social interaction. And really, when you go into a store or any public place, you can create a tiny one. Even one as simple as meeting a few more people's gazes this week. Maybe try a quick smile at them? (I look down a lot, and try to overcome that) IMO, even these small things can snowball into significant victories you can share at Babble - even if no one IRL would understand that type of progress - we would!
I have a handful of "friends" made over the past year. But none of these relationships is very deep, or satisfying. So, I may appear to have them, but really don't. Not yet. Sure, when I get frustrated at lack of (quality) relationships, how hard it is to find them and how long it takes to form new ones - I've been known to use the "p" word, too. But my head knows it's just a strong word we sometimes use very meanly against ourselves to beat ourselves up when we're down.
I hope you don't need to say it (as much?) any more? Because it's too negative for such a beautiful soul as you.
>>I promise I'm not as crazy in real life.
Has anyone said or implied you're crazy here?
>>I'm just a quiet person.
That's fine. Social anxiety tends to make it that way, even if at heart you may be an extrovert. Baby steps. Are you totally quiet when you're with your star-gazing friends (that sounds SO cool, BTW!)? Because it sounds to me like then you may emerge from your shell a bit more?
>>I'm so pathetic it's humiliating...wanting to meet you guys is one thing that makes me want to stay alive. I bet (think, IMO) most people who are going to the party this year don't even give me a second thought. I'm so pathetic it's deplorable. I'm even pathetic for using the word pathetic so many times. <<
Well, I already talked about that "p" word above. Try to take it easy on yourself. Getting anxious about stuff on Babble doesn't make you pathetic. Nor does being quiet, or wondering about whether people care or want to meet you. I think it makes you a feeling, hurting person who wants to connect, but is also so afraid of what that means sometimes. We are different ages, cultural backgrounds and likely have different emotional problems, but I really *do* get that, Jenny. I know it's hard.
>> Ok, people don't wish death upon me. Ok, can I assume that everyone here doesn't wish death upon me? Ok, will do. I hope I am correct...it is so hard to tell, esp. about whether or not Dr. Bob wishes death upon me.<<
That's right. No one here ever wishes that. And I don't think you mean that about Dr. Bob. What makes it so hard to tell?
Perhaps your anxiety and fear are trying to "talk for themselves," and push the "rest" of Jenny aside - so maybe try to recognize that. (We'll help) Remember, you wrote a while back that Dr. Bob was "benevolent?" And, if I recall, he thanked you? You were 100% right, you know.
Would he act like that, and would he put energy and time into a place like this if he was capable of wishing death on posters?
>>OK, I don't know what I'm saying anymore. It sounds silly to type that up now. I think I'm more happy now. OK, I'm good.<
That's an abrupt change - in the space of a single sentence. Although I'm glad, it's worrisome. Maybe print out and add this post to your collection of things to show your pdoc when she's back? Hope you're really doing that - I think it could be immensely helpful during an appointment to bring in these posts.
>>I promise now not to kill myself so I can have an adventure in Toronto next year. It will be fun. :-)<<
Good.
That's very good to hear.
Do make the promise to yourself Jenny, though.
Not just to us.
And for your family, who despite anything they say or do, would be devastated if you did that.
Jenny is a worthwhile, caring and likeable person who deserves LIFE, okay? :-)Hope you plan something to do today. Get out and try to see some beauty in nature, or something like that. I'm going to make myself take a walk, no matter how lazy and blah I feel.
Take care, talk to you soon - 10derHeart
>
>
Posted by Deneb on May 31, 2005, at 16:43:16
In reply to Deneb, I replied to you over on Social..:-) » Deneb, posted by 10derHeart on May 31, 2005, at 11:46:28
> You might meet someone next week, even at the fast food job you don't like, and you might click. Who knows? Friends can be anywhere.
I don't know how to be comfortable around other people. It is very annoying. I have to talk and smile. Smiling and laughing all the time makes my mouth tired. I cannot not smile cuz then I will be frowning and people will get upset. Sometimes I feel bad and other people feel good and I don't know what to do. I have to say good things so people won't get sad.
>IMO, even these small things can snowball into significant victories you can share at Babble - even if no one IRL would understand that type of progress - we would!
One time an elderly lady fell down and I helped her clean blood off her face and tired to make her feel better, but I didn't think to call the ambulance because I'm so afraid of asking people. I tired to do a good thing but it ended up being bad. It was almost like the universe was telling me I should kill myself, why else would such a rare thing happen?
> Has anyone said or implied you're crazy here?
I don't know. I don't think anyone actually said it, but I'm sure they thought it. I just don't understand why I always end up sounding so crazy even though I don't have a serious disorder like other people do. You people sound very together and very sane compared to me but I don't even have serious problems.
> Are you totally quiet when you're with your star-gazing friends (that sounds SO cool, BTW!)? Because it sounds to me like then you may emerge from your shell a bit more?
Well, mostly it is about observing, but I say "Wow!" a lot because it gets exciting when one sees something one has never seen before. I haven't really kept in touch with the astronomy group...I'm not feeling very social.
> >> Ok, people don't wish death upon me. Ok, can I assume that everyone here doesn't wish death upon me? Ok, will do. I hope I am correct...it is so hard to tell, esp. about whether or not Dr. Bob wishes death upon me.<<
>
> That's right. No one here ever wishes that.I'm so convinced sometimes that people wish death on me. I don't know why, I just do. Then other times it is about revenge I think. But sometimes I don't think I'm ready to die yet because I want to be really physically fit and have perfectly clear skin before I die. I know this doesn't make much sense right?
>And I don't think you mean that about Dr. Bob. What makes it so hard to tell?
Because...he can never answer my questions. When I ask, "Do you wish death upon me?", he cannot answer it because he doesn't participate, so now I assume that he does wish death upon me. There is no way to know for sure. I guess it should't matter if he does or doesn't wish death upon me since he can't say either way. But...it may be a problem for me since sometimes I want to make things easier for him because he seems like a nice person and maybe my death will be a favor cuz my posts are disruptive.
>Remember, you wrote a while back that Dr. Bob was "benevolent?" And, if I recall, he thanked you? You were 100% right, you know.
I don't know, what if he was being sarcastic? "Thanks" can sound good or bad...it changes so much. I don't know if I can trust my interpretions anymore.
> Would he act like that, and would he put energy and time into a place like this if he was capable of wishing death on posters?I don't know, maybe it is only me...cuz I've been so bad.
> Maybe print out and add this post to your collection of things to show your pdoc when she's back?This might be silly to do...besides, she doesn't have time to read my posts. Plus I tell her everything. But it doesn't matter, I don't want to bother her anymore. She's on maternity leave and I don't need to see her when she comes back. I've wasted enough time already...it's time for other students to take my place...there needs to be a high turnover or else her workload will only get bigger and bigger.
I'm seeing my family doc tomorrow, the one I haven't seen in years. I wonder what I should say to get her to give me meds so that I can experiment on myself? I gotta be smart...beat the system. I don't like her very much, I don't think she knows what she's doing. Once she told my Mom to not expect me to go to university because I might go running naked around the streets?!? I think she might be a little crazy.
> jenny is a worthwhile, caring and likeable person who deserves LIFE, okay? :-)
Ok, if you say so :-) It will be so fun to meet you guys. I can show you pics of my hamster. Sometimes there are charity events where people can climb the CN tower, I wonder when? I want to do that someday!
> Get out and try to see some beauty in nature, or something like that. I'm going to make myself take a walk, no matter how lazy and blah I feel.During the first snowfall of last year it was so beautiful. I was walking to one of my classes and these huge, gigantic fluffy wet clumps fell from the sky and it was amazing. I just stopped and stood there looking at it. I hope I didn't look too crazy...my sister said I was crazy to do that.
> Take care, talk to you soon - 10derHeartThanks 10derHeart :-)
jenny (I like the lowercase j, I'm not confident enough for J)
Posted by Deneb on May 31, 2005, at 18:11:19
In reply to Re: Deneb, I replied to you over on Social..:-), posted by Deneb on May 31, 2005, at 16:43:16
...for posting non-administrative things on admin. I lost track of things. I'm such a horrible person. I'm sorry one million times. I'm so sorry I could die to prove this. I'm so sorry for being disruptive...tell me to die and I'll do it. My hamster won't live for long.
Posted by JenStar on May 31, 2005, at 18:16:22
In reply to Re: Deneb, I replied to you over on Social..:-), posted by Deneb on May 31, 2005, at 16:43:16
Deneb,
I personally like you, I DON'T think you're "crazy," and I'm 100% sure that nobody here wants you to die. Dr. Bob IS benevolent - it would be difficult and inappropriate for him to get personally involved with the posters here, but I'm sure he's a good guy. Think about it - would a mean person start a site like this in his own free time and maintain it as well?Deneb, you sometimes demonstrate a level of paranoia that I consider abnormally high. (But I still like you! I DON'T want you to die!) For example, obsessing over whether Dr. Bob is benevolent or malevolent; worrying that other people want you to die; worrying about what others think of you. It's not normal to feel that way, and I KNOW it's not fun to think that way. Most people do not suffer from those kinds of intrusive and predatory thoughts.
I would seriously encourage you to talk honestly to the family doctor and ask her for professional help. Tell her all the thoughts that trouble you, the urges that are hard to resist, and the social anxiety you face. There are wonderful meds out there. You do not need to experiment on yourself with things that don't work! Seriously - instead of sneaking your mom's xanax and tylenol 3 (I don't even really know what that is), ask your doctor about Prozac, Lexapro, Celexa, or other approved meds. They often have low side effects and are VERY effective for social anxiety.
I'm not a doctor so I don't even know what all is available for your particular symptoms. But please be honest with your doctor and ask her for help. She will keep it confidential (it is the law!) and will help you.
It does sound like the "real Jenny" is in there - the one who wants to be a fitness wonder, the one who wants clean skin, the one who loves her hamster. Think of the fun stuff you want to do in life, and how these sad thoughts are holding you back. If you're honest with the family doctor, she can help you get better NOW. Don't want for maternity leave to be over for the pdoc. That might take forever, and honestly, you need the help NOW.
Why do you talk about 'beating the system?' Why not start talking about 'getting better?'
The thing is, I WANT you to get better. I sort of want to grab you and shake you, shake some sense into you. Of course I can't do that over the web (ha!) and of course wouldn't in real life either, b/c it would not be a friendly thing to do. But you have so much going for you, don't throw it all away! You're nice, and funny, and smart. Please don't try to manipulate the doctor - instead, work WITH her to get yourself the help you need.
I'm thinking of you, and hoping you feel better!
JenStar
Posted by JenStar on May 31, 2005, at 18:29:50
In reply to Re: Deneb, I replied to you over on Social..:-) » Deneb, posted by JenStar on May 31, 2005, at 18:16:22
Deneb (Jenny),
I read some of the stuff over on admin, and it made me concerned about you. It seems to me (I apologize if I'm wrong here) that you're reaching out, trying to get a response of any kind out of Dr. Bob & the other folks there.You're written before that you feel conflicted that Dr. Bob can't/won't write to you on a personal level. Is it possible that you're writing some of the posts there in order to force a response, even if it's a block or a civility warning?
Is it possible that you're trying to make people feel guilty about your potential future behavior & actions, in order to start conversations or absolve yourself of responsibility?
I think a lot of people here care about you. I do, for one! But I don't believe that this site or the people here are responsible for ANYONE's actions, positive or negative. I truly believe that each one of us is responsible for our OWN actions.
We LIKE you here. Really, we do! We want you to get better and feel better.
I hope you feel the same way for yourself!
JenStar
Posted by 10derHeart on May 31, 2005, at 19:10:59
In reply to Re: I am sooo sorry Dr. Bob..., posted by Deneb on May 31, 2005, at 18:11:19
Deneb,
That's why I moved the thread over here.
You don't have to think of or do everything yourself. We help each other. That's the whole point of Babble!Simple as that, okay? Dr. Bob is quite used to it, and I'm sure thinks nothing of it. Especially when one of us redirects it for him, so he doesn't need to. Threads often wander off topic.
(I just recently realized how to do it - and it's so easy - I felt like kind of a dumbo ;-))
jenny (with the small 'j' you prefer) - Do listen to JenStar. She speaks some wonderful words to you in her posts here.
And remember what Larry, Alex and others have talked to you about before?
You really DON'T have to go on suffering with this level of distress.
(((((Deneb))))
Posted by Deneb on May 31, 2005, at 20:25:35
In reply to Re: Deneb, I replied to you over on Social..:-) » JenStar, posted by JenStar on May 31, 2005, at 18:29:50
> You're written before that you feel conflicted that Dr. Bob can't/won't write to you on a personal level. Is it possible that you're writing some of the posts there in order to force a response, even if it's a block or a civility warning?
No, JenStar, you are not correct. I'm hurt that you think this of me.
> Is it possible that you're trying to make people feel guilty about your potential future behavior & actions, in order to start conversations or absolve yourself of responsibility?No, JenStar, again not correct. I'm very hurt that you think this of me.
> I think a lot of people here care about you. I do, for one! But I don't believe that this site or the people here are responsible for ANYONE's actions, positive or negative. I truly believe that each one of us is responsible for our OWN actions.I know this. I know this is now the time for me to shut-up. I'm really hurt that you think these things of me. I'm sorry if this is not your intention. I know I'm responsible for my actions. This is my worst nightmare...that people will think these things of me. I'm sorry you don't understand me.
Posted by Deneb on May 31, 2005, at 20:43:26
In reply to Re: Deneb, I replied to you over on Social..:-) » JenStar, posted by Deneb on May 31, 2005, at 20:25:35
I'm just really upset right now. I'm sorry JenStar, but you said things that really upset me. It's difficult to convey just how upset I am that people think of me that way: ie. wanting to get bad attention from Dr. Bob and wanting to make others feel guilty...these are the things I want to desperately *avoid* doing. JenStar, I would rather die than do those things...and not die for attention, die an agonizing death with no rewards. I'm sorry you don't understand. You hurt me very much unintentionally. I think it might be best if you don't post anything to me for the time being. I hope you are not hurt by this...I just can't handle things right now.
Posted by alexandra_k on May 31, 2005, at 21:13:01
In reply to Re: Deneb, I replied to you over on Social..:-) » Deneb, posted by Deneb on May 31, 2005, at 20:43:26
Okay...
It is hard.
I think...
I think you have been reading stuff about your dx on the net.
I don't think that has been helpful to you.
Dx can be a mixed blessing
As I guess you are finding out...
I know you are going through a hard time right now.
Trying to figure out how much it is okay to express your feelings; your frustration and pain and hopelessness and anger and your thoughts on suicide
And trying to figure out how much you have to curb that in order to not upset others.
There is a balance, a middle way
But it can be hard to find...
But people will help you if you let them.
Sometimes the best thing...
Can be to support others.
When I worry that other people are feeling fed up with me or annoyed with me or whatever
Then I try to post something in response to someone elses thread. A thoughtful response. To support them the way I would like other people to support me.
To model for others the kind of response I would like for myself.
I could stand to get a lot better at that ;-)
With respect to suicide...
There are people here at different places.
You might have the thoughts quite a lot
But other people do not.
It can be hard for me to keep the thoughts at bay
When I read vivid descriptions
When I hear about other peoples specific plansYou can say that you are thinking about it a lot or whatever
But sometimes the details are a little more than people want to know.
More than is good for them
More than is good for where they are at.
I get a bit wary about reading your posts not.
Because I am determined NOT to get back into that head space
And I will not put myself in the position where I am at risk for that.
I don't mind if you talk about having suicidal ideation
But I don't want to hear specific details.
Of course you are free to post what you like...
But if it keeps up then I will stop reading.Jenstar is trying to help.
I know that sometimes people say stuff
And it can really hurt.
SOmetimes it is really really hard for people to say things
But IMO it is better to try and sort out misunderstandings rather than losing friends over it.By the way:
It was after you said you wished you could make the Babble party but you couldn't that Dr Bob suggested Toronto for 2006.
He wouldn't have done that if he really didn't want to meet you.
Posted by alexandra_k on May 31, 2005, at 21:14:52
In reply to Re: I am sooo sorry Dr. Bob..., posted by Deneb on May 31, 2005, at 18:11:19
> I'm so sorry I could die to prove this...tell me to die and I'll do it.
That was what JenStar was talking about.
Posted by alexandra_k on May 31, 2005, at 21:16:05
In reply to Re: Deneb, I replied to you over on Social..:-) » JenStar, posted by JenStar on May 31, 2005, at 18:29:50
Hello :-)
Thought you could use a hug.
Posted by Deneb on May 31, 2005, at 21:25:36
In reply to Re: Deneb, I replied to you over on Social..:-) » JenStar, posted by JenStar on May 31, 2005, at 18:29:50
I'm sorry JenStar. You can post to me. I just couldn't handle my emotions for a while. It is definately not your fault that I'm feeling upset.
Thank-you for the advice about being honest with my doctor...I will. I'll try really hard to take care of myself. Still friends? :-)
jenny
Posted by alexandra_k on May 31, 2005, at 21:31:26
In reply to Re: I am sooo sorry Dr. Bob... » Deneb, posted by alexandra_k on May 31, 2005, at 21:14:52
>It's difficult to convey just how upset I am that people think of me that way: ie. wanting to get bad attention from Dr. Bob and wanting to make others feel guilty...these are the things I want to desperately *avoid* doing. JenStar, I would rather die than do those things...
I remember reading about BPD. About how there are a lot of characterisations of BPD out there along the lines of 'attention seeking' and 'manipulative'. I remembered thinking that I would rather die than be those things. I didn't think I was those things, but then I worried that maybe I was but I was in denial about it, and then I got really afraid that other people thought this of me and I got really afraid that it might be true and...
... That was no good to me whatsoever. It hurt me so very much. I withdrew from people because my biggest fear was that I was like that. That I was unacceptable and not fit for human company and that the biggest favour I could do for people was just to leave them the hell alone. So I withdrew from the world.. But then I was so very lonely.. It was such a horrible place to be.
I understand that.
I understand how much it hurts.Now... The trouble is making sense of it. Why do people characterise people with BPD in those terms?????
> > I'm so sorry I could die to prove this...tell me to die and I'll do it.
I think what strikes people here is *Why* on earth would someone post such a thing???
Are they trying to provoke a response?
Are they trying to get some attention?
Why on earth???And so people do wonder why someone would post such a thing. What were you hoping to achieve?
Because that is the way that people think about such posts.
Were you venting???
Were you trying to express just how bad you felt???
Now maybe I'm wrong...
But my guess would be that yes.
You were trying to express just how terrible you felt at the time of posting
And that is why you posted it.But other people don't really see it as an EXPRESSION of how you were feeling,
They wonder what you were trying to achieve in posting such a thing
They wonder what sort of response you were expecting from others.I don't know whether it occured to you to think about how other people would likely respond to that.
Maybe you were just expressing how you felt.
But you need to start looking at the effect that that sort of post has on other people too.Dr Bob couldn't respond to that, you know.
If he did then he would be reinforcing your making that sort of post
again
and again
and again...
Basically...
You can express how you feel.
Really.
But there are more or less appropriate ways of doing that.That wasn't so appropriate.
But there are other ways.
Posted by Deneb on May 31, 2005, at 21:43:18
In reply to Re: Deneb, I replied to you over on Social..:-) » Deneb, posted by alexandra_k on May 31, 2005, at 21:13:01
> I know you are going through a hard time right now.
> Trying to figure out how much it is okay to express your feelings; your frustration and pain and hopelessness and anger and your thoughts on suicide
> And trying to figure out how much you have to curb that in order to not upset others.
> There is a balance, a middle way
> But it can be hard to find...(((Alexandra))) You describe my situation with great eloquence and understanding. I think you are right...I'm trying to find a balance...it is very difficult...both the balancing and the impulse control.
> Then I try to post something in response to someone elses thread. A thoughtful response. To support them the way I would like other people to support me.
> To model for others the kind of response I would like for myself.
> I could stand to get a lot better at that ;-)I think you are very good at supporting others. :-) You're certainly a model for me.
> With respect to suicide...
> There are people here at different places.Thanks for explaining that to me. It's difficult for me understand that other people do not think about it all the time like I do.
> I don't mind if you talk about having suicidal ideation
> But I don't want to hear specific details.I'm just not sure still about what the difference is...please help me understand. I've been thinking that all my "bad" posts have been about ideations. For the future should I simply state that: "I have suicidal ideations right now"?...instead of saying something like: I feel like I want to take X and do Y?
> By the way:
>
> It was after you said you wished you could make the Babble party but you couldn't that Dr Bob suggested Toronto for 2006.
>
> He wouldn't have done that if he really didn't want to meet you.Yes, I know. I'm starting to think that maybe there is something really wrong with me sometimes...it's like I can't control what I'm thinking and I start thinking really bizarre things. Thankfully it usually doesn't last too long. I'm still trying to understand what exactly is the matter with me. I promise I'm going to try really really hard to get myself together.
Thank-you so much for the explaination Alexandra. I understand the boundaries a little better now. It helps me to know how I can make others feel better and not harm them. Thanks again so much. Please forgive my lack of social skills.
jenny
>
Posted by Deneb on May 31, 2005, at 22:02:44
In reply to Re: I am sooo sorry Dr. Bob..., posted by alexandra_k on May 31, 2005, at 21:31:26
> So I withdrew from the world.. But then I was so very lonely.. It was such a horrible place to be.
>
> I understand that.
> I understand how much it hurts.You made it through :-) I'm so glad you did. It gives me great hope that you did that. :-)
> > > I'm so sorry I could die to prove this...tell me to die and I'll do it.
>
> I think what strikes people here is *Why* on earth would someone post such a thing???
> Are they trying to provoke a response?
> Are they trying to get some attention?
> Why on earth???Oh my gosh! Alexandra, can you believe that it NEVER ever occurred to me that people would think "Why on earth I would post such a thing?"??!!! I seriously didn't know people thought this! Wow, my thinking must be seriously flawed.
> And so people do wonder why someone would post such a thing. What were you hoping to achieve?
>
> Because that is the way that people think about such posts.
>
> Were you venting???
> Were you trying to express just how bad you felt???
> Now maybe I'm wrong...
> But my guess would be that yes.
> You were trying to express just how terrible you felt at the time of posting
> And that is why you posted it.Yes...I think you are 100% correct. I was trying to *express* myself. I just did not know *how* to express myself. I just don't.
> But other people don't really see it as an EXPRESSION of how you were feeling,
> They wonder what you were trying to achieve in posting such a thing
> They wonder what sort of response you were expecting from others.Alexandra, I cannot express just how useful this info is to me right now. This is a big light-bulb moment for me. I had no idea. I'm starting to understand, I think, maybe.
>
> I don't know whether it occured to you to think about how other people would likely respond to that.
> Maybe you were just expressing how you felt.
> But you need to start looking at the effect that that sort of post has on other people too.OMG ((((Alexandra)))), thank-you so much for explaining this to me. This is extremely useful information for me...I just never knew. I can't believe it never occurred to me that others thought that way...I'm just so stuck in my own mind. I won't forget this. Now, I just have the problem of *how* to express myself. I don't think I know how to express myself in ways that aren't so harmful to others. (I'm really sorry BTW for being harmful...I swear I did not think I was being harmful when I wrote that sentence...hard to believe, yes, but true).
> Dr Bob couldn't respond to that, you know.
> If he did then he would be reinforcing your making that sort of post
> again
> and again
> and again...Wow, you are so very smart Alexandra! I think I *get* it. :-) You're right!
>
> Basically...
> You can express how you feel.
> Really.
> But there are more or less appropriate ways of doing that.
>
> That wasn't so appropriate.
> But there are other ways.I gotta learn some other ways quick. :-)
jenny
Posted by Deneb on May 31, 2005, at 22:11:03
In reply to Re: I am sooo sorry Dr. Bob..., posted by alexandra_k on May 31, 2005, at 21:31:26
Is it ok that I print out your post to me so that I can look at it before I post? It makes me feel a lot better and might give me more control.
Eeekk, I just can't thank you enough Alexandra for letting me *see*. I feel like I've just found out what the Matrix is or something...hehe.
Posted by alexandra_k on May 31, 2005, at 23:47:44
In reply to Re: Deneb, I replied to you over on Social..:-) » alexandra_k, posted by Deneb on May 31, 2005, at 21:43:18
> I'm trying to find a balance...it is very difficult...both the balancing and the impulse control.
Yes. It is difficult. And it is something that comes and goes a bit. We just have to do the best we can...
> It's difficult for me understand that other people do not think about it all the time like I do.> I'm just not sure still about what the difference is...please help me understand. I've been thinking that all my "bad" posts have been about ideations. For the future should I simply state that: "I have suicidal ideations right now"?...instead of saying something like: I feel like I want to take X and do Y?
Yeah, fairly much.
If you are thinking about suicide you can say that you are thinking about suicide.
Saying that you are thinking about specific methods like 'jumping off a tall building' or taking an OD probably aren't so good... I guess it isn't that there is a general rule there. But a description like that gets mental pictures running through my mind...And the point... The point about suicide... Is something that you thought before. That it isn't so much about dying anyway as it is a wish that the pain and all those horrible feelings would go away.
So it is probably still more helpful to talk about those bad feelings. And help work through some of those bad feelings. Because when the bad feelings go then the suicidal ideation typically goes along with it (or at least isn't so very intense).
> I'm starting to think that maybe there is something really wrong with me sometimes...
Everyone has a hard time when they are feeling really stressed / are feeling a lot of intense negative emotions. It is even part of the diagnostic criteria for BPD that there can be brief episodes of psychosis (typically paranoia) when the person is feeling extremely stressed. IMO that is what is going on. Sometimes you really are very distressed and in those times you do tend to post stuff that sounds a little paranoid. But it goes away when you aren't so intensely upset.
>it's like I can't control what I'm thinking and I start thinking really bizarre things. Thankfully it usually doesn't last too long.
Yeah :-)
Somewhere between a couple hours to a couple days max.>I'm still trying to understand what exactly is the matter with me. I promise I'm going to try really really hard to get myself together.
I know you are trying.
:-)
It is just hard to know what to do sometimes.
Posted by alexandra_k on May 31, 2005, at 23:55:37
In reply to Re: I am sooo sorry Dr. Bob... » alexandra_k, posted by Deneb on May 31, 2005, at 22:02:44
>I gotta learn some other ways quick. :-)
I really think you should try and find out if you can do DBT. Really really really. Thats where I learned this stuff from.
One whole section is on interpersonal communication.
Another is on emotion regulation (so the bad feelings aren't so bad)
Posted by alexandra_k on May 31, 2005, at 23:56:19
In reply to Re: Thank-you so much Alexandra! » alexandra_k, posted by Deneb on May 31, 2005, at 22:11:03
Yeah, thats cool :-)
Just be warned...
The magic will eventually wear off ;-)
Posted by JenStar on June 1, 2005, at 0:08:20
In reply to Re: (((((((JenStar)))))) thanks for trying to help, posted by Deneb on May 31, 2005, at 21:25:36
yes, of course we're still friends! I understand that you're upset, and I'm sorry if I pushed you too far. I can sometimes be very blunt in my posts. I'm just concerned about you; I want you to be OK.
I hope you're doing well & having a good day. Take care of yourself!
JenStar
Posted by JenStar on June 1, 2005, at 0:08:52
In reply to Re: (((JenStar))), posted by alexandra_k on May 31, 2005, at 21:16:05
thanks for the hug! I appreciate it. It was very welcome! :)
JenStar
Posted by Deneb on June 1, 2005, at 16:04:16
In reply to Deneb, I replied to you over on Social..:-) » Deneb, posted by 10derHeart on May 31, 2005, at 11:46:28
I'm angry after seeing my family doctor...I really think she's a little crazy. Appointments with her are always sooo long...mine was almost an hour today. It would be nice if she were actually being productive during that time, but she just goes on and on and on about useless stuff.
I really think I told her everything...but she doesn't agree that I need to use a med to control myself when I'm extremely upset. Then she went on about how medicine is an art form and how just because a med is right for other people doesn't mean it is right for me. Then she took out a Better Homes and Garden magazine and told me that I should take up scrapbooking like she does. She told me she likes to go home after a busy day and cut out pictures of clouds and flowers and birds...she suggested I do the same. She also told me to go do some gardening, and painting when I'm enraged and suicidal...what the bleep! She doesn't understand me at all!
I then asked her about how I can get some DBT...she told me that only Americans have services like that (just as I had suspected)...Canada doesn't have enough money put into services like those. She then told me that I had better stick with the p-doc I've got right now because no p-docs will see me once the word "suicidal" is mentioned...this is true BTW, this happened the first time I was referred to see a p-doc...she wouldn't even see me. So...basically, the doctor just told me that there is nothing anyone can do to help me. I simply have to take up a hobby like scrapbooking or painting.
This doesn't make sense at all...how come suicidal people can't get treatment here in Canada??? I don't understand. So are my problems too big to handle or too insignificant to handle? Or is it utterly hopeless for me?...therefore I should take up scrapbooking and hope I won't kill myself??? Ahhhh! I don't get it. I was so frustrated...I felt almost like I wanted to kill something. I think bad bad thoughts sometimes...really bad.
Posted by Deneb on June 1, 2005, at 16:25:41
In reply to Re: Don't know what to make of this, posted by Deneb on June 1, 2005, at 16:04:16
People want me to suffer! I feel like I want to hurt someone/something. I can't get into details, but it's gruesome. I'm so evil to think this. I'm so annoyed...I don't know what to do. I feel like the only way to get help is to do something really drastic. It's not fair! People don't believe me when I say I feel on the edge sometimes...maybe I need to prove this. I hate to do this...I feel vengeful. People don't believe me! I want to make them sorry they doubted me.
Posted by Deneb on June 1, 2005, at 16:38:47
In reply to Re: I'm so angry...ppl want me to suffer *trigger*, posted by Deneb on June 1, 2005, at 16:25:41
Once the time is right, I will hurt myself again. I don't care if I live or die...that'll show them! I was serious! BLEEP. I will, because I need to prove I'm suffering. I need to do something drastic...no one bleeping believes me.
Posted by JenStar on June 1, 2005, at 16:55:24
In reply to Re: That's it, I've had enough *trigger*, posted by Deneb on June 1, 2005, at 16:38:47
hi Deneb,
First of all,
give yourself credit. You went to the doctor and talked to her honestly, you said. That took a lot of courage! I'm glad you tried it.You then said that you could try to "show" them all by hurting yourself. But you'd be the big loser in that equation - if you hurt yourself to make a point, the only person you end up destroying or "showing" is YOU. You'd be showing yourself that you don't have a future, that you're NOT in control, and that you don't matter. You'd be "showing" that you're a loser, because you lost a chance at a good and productive life. The further down the road of self-destruction you go, the more twisted & difficult it will be to get out.
I know I'm lecturing and you're probably tuned out (or mad at me again! Sorry!). I mean, scrapbooking and gardening are obviously not going to do it for you. You need something more. But don't give up on yourself. If this doctor isn't good, find another one.
You said that this doctor speaks Cantonese. Is she an herbalist or an expert in traditional Chinese medicine? Does she focus more on Western medicine, or more on Eastern techniques of relaxation & control? Can you tell her that she didn't help you at all, and that you either want a medication or a referral to another doctor?
I'm trying to think of ways to get the problem solved without hurting yourself. Pretend that someone was going to give you a million dollars if you solved the problem of how an imaginary "Jenny Deneb" was going to get herself help, even though her doctor only talked about scrapbooks. I bet if there was enough motivation you could come up with tons of clever ideas. Just equate yourself to a million dollars. YOu're a precious person. There are ways to fix the situation without hurting yourself.
Take care.
JenStar
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