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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by pfinstegg on May 7, 2007, at 7:51:36
In reply to Re: He threw me out of his office!, posted by pegasus on May 6, 2007, at 22:32:08
There must have been something going on , but I didn't have any sense of it. I thought I was doing well- going much more deeply into me; earlier in the analysis, I had gotten really angry at him from time to time, but that wasn't happening when the rupture occurred. I do think he kind of broke down, temporarily. My new T said that in a good analysis, the T is supposed to feel the unconscious feelings of the patient- that's important- but NOT, of course, act on them. Acting on them makes the T just like the old parents; reflecting on them, and acting in a new, empathic way provides us with the new experience we are all in need of.
As I get over the shock of what happened, I must admit that I miss the empathic, caring and humorous parts of the old T. But I did have them for four years. There's no going back, now.
Posted by pfinstegg on May 7, 2007, at 7:57:29
In reply to I'm impressed! » pfinstegg, posted by Racer on May 6, 2007, at 22:07:06
Thanks, Racer! The riding was just a life-saver during these past months. Even when I was at my worst, my horse provided a couple of hours of love and comfort every time I could make myself drive to the barn.
Posted by susan47 on May 10, 2007, at 0:52:39
In reply to Re: annierose, posted by pfinstegg on May 6, 2007, at 18:40:23
What a terrible experience this once-beloved T put you through. I feel so sad you had to go through this, and so happy for you that you now have a new, great therapist. Sounds like the last one had a mental or emotional breakdown, or maybe he was self-medicating and had a psychotic break of his very own? I feel so sorry for him, you know, in addition to feeling glad for you, I feel sad for him if he doesn't get professional help. I think, I really hope for everyone's sake, that your new T steps up to the plate and does the right thing, what he knows he should do to protect all this old T's clients present and future, maybe even past. Who knows how often this may have happened with him in the past???
Posted by pfinstegg on May 10, 2007, at 8:45:32
In reply to Re: annierose » pfinstegg, posted by susan47 on May 10, 2007, at 0:52:39
All the points you made are so important. I hadn't yet said a word that day, although I was feeling a lot of painful aloneness (my own past). He seemed to me to be acting in a near-psychotic manner. I think it's hard to get help/support when you are a senior analyst= much easier when you are young.
Of course, initially, I thought there was something awful about me that had caused it. But my husband and new analyst both have been stressing to me that that is not the case. Despite the panful ending, I constantly feel homesick for the nearly four years when he was so great.
Even though the new one is the head of the analytic institute here, I think it's a very gray area as to whether he could make suggestions to the old analyst about getting supervision or help. Everything that happened is so private- and it's really hearsay, which he could easily deny. He also could say that I am psychotic (he actually did say that to me), and can't be trusted. I do suspect that if it happened to me, it's happened to others, too- or is happening. Possibly other people go away and are never heard from again in the analytic community. I feel very sorry for him, too (when I'm not feeling sorry for myself), as he was really wonderful when he was functioning well.
The good thing is that I am doing OK with my new analyst. Thanks for your thoughts!
Posted by susan47 on May 11, 2007, at 1:39:18
In reply to Re: what happened, posted by pfinstegg on May 10, 2007, at 8:45:32
I know for a fact just from reading these boards, that people absolutely do get traumatized by their "therapy" and then disappear. But I don't think it's so much the therapist's fault, necessarily, as a huge flaw in the system itself. I suspect the challenges a therapist faces are absolutely immense and the entire system, I suspect, just isn't responsible enough in policing itself to prevent this type of thing happening .. if we weren't so bloody hung up, as a society, on the theory of love and the so-called damage it can do, if we didn't see love as a powerful method of controlling others from a few really bad examples, if we weren't so damn paranoid .. well, how do you get from here to there? What should the end result of every therapy relationship look like? Who's policing the results?
There simply aren't enough practical checks and balances for the protection of everyone .. and because human emotion can make people frail and volatile we're all afraid of it.
And our paranoia makes everyone sick, really really soul-sick. We should all be helping each other, not condemning ourselves for our healthy feelings.
Posted by pfinstegg on May 11, 2007, at 21:14:59
In reply to Re: what happened, posted by pfinstegg on May 10, 2007, at 8:45:32
I see why he is running everything! He has a very calm, empathic demeanor- calmer than the first one. He doesn't direct anything, but is really helping me process the grief I have been feeling about the collapse of the first therapy relationship. He is also very flexible; when I said that I would start to get worried when he was quiet that he, too, didn't want me in the office, he looked at me and said, really sincerely, " I haven't had any thought like that, but I am very glad you told me that you needed more responsiveness from me." Then he was more responsive! I cry buckets, and leave with swollen eyes and smeared/no makeup, but I'm so glad I found him. It is starting to really feel right and hopeful.
Posted by antigua on May 12, 2007, at 5:57:19
In reply to The new analyst is really good!, posted by pfinstegg on May 11, 2007, at 21:14:59
I am so glad you are starting to feel so good about your new analyst. I was so shocked by what happened to you and felt very, very badly for you. I wish I had pearls of wisdom to help you, but you seem to have found a strong way to deal with it.
best,
antigua
Posted by pfinstegg on May 12, 2007, at 9:23:36
In reply to Re: The new analyst is really good! » pfinstegg, posted by antigua on May 12, 2007, at 5:57:19
Thank you, Antigua. In a better world, one wouldn't have to go to one T to recover from what another T has done. But he allows me to do whatever I feel I need to do, and pointed out that I'm also working on earlier rejections simultaneously- without specifically identifying them. The old T, while an analyst also, was, in a subtle way, quite directive- this one isn't at all. I like that a lot.
Posted by rubenstein on May 12, 2007, at 12:14:56
In reply to I am so sorry. » pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on May 5, 2007, at 9:33:09
I am so sorry about what happened to you. That must have been awful. You showed such strength in your handling of the situation. It just makes me so mad that he treated you like that. He definetly must have had some issues going on himself. Again, I am thinking of you. I am glad that you like your new anaylist.
take care of yourself,
rachel
Posted by Daisym on May 12, 2007, at 21:11:03
In reply to The new analyst is really good!, posted by pfinstegg on May 11, 2007, at 21:14:59
I'm glad you found someone who suits you and can help you through this crisis. I imagine processing this must have some of the similiar elements I'm always working with: "Why?" and "How could he?" It rattles me to think of you so distraught and sick for months.
My favorite thing about my therapist is his ability to exude calm. Rarely does he "catch" my anxiety - which is so great! I'm sure you really need that right now. I'm curious about the younger age states and where they've gone in all of this. I know you are working hard to not regress right now, so are they completely undercover?
Mostly I want to say I'm glad you are happy with the help you've found.
Posted by pfinstegg on May 12, 2007, at 21:58:18
In reply to Re: The new analyst is really good! » pfinstegg, posted by Daisym on May 12, 2007, at 21:11:03
Thank you, Daisy. I've been wondering about the younger states, myself. I am really just getting to know the new analyst- and he me- but it seems that he doesn't put so much emphasis on identifying what part might be predominant at any given moment. I think he just feels that they are all there all the time. He seems to want most of all that I know that he is really listening, and will be responsive and caring. I think he assumes that all my parts are always there, expressing themselves as part of me. I don't feel that any part of me, or any feelings or thoughts, are being ignored. I really adored the other analyst, but he really did become destructive suddenly. I think this one is in fact more helpful- certainly wonderful about helping me process what happened with the first one. We aren't yet at the point where I feel able to tell him about my own abuse issues with any detail or feeling (he does know about them), but it's getting better all the time.
I love the picture of you in a pink suit and pink high heels, meeting what might be a good guy- notwithstanding the spilled coffee! I hope you feel like following up on that. If you do, tell us!
Posted by muffled on May 12, 2007, at 22:12:42
In reply to Re: The new analyst is really good! » Daisym, posted by pfinstegg on May 12, 2007, at 21:58:18
pfinstegg, you are SO kind about other T that went bad.
I think I would be so pissed. But then I don't gotta a history w/him....dunno. I admire at how your handling this and SO glad you got a good new T.
Best of luck to you.
Muffled
Posted by pfinstegg on May 12, 2007, at 22:17:19
In reply to Re: I am so sorry., posted by rubenstein on May 12, 2007, at 12:14:56
Thank you, Rachel. I appreciate your caring so much. I do think the first analyst had some pretty serious issues of his own, which I inadvertently caused to flare up. He suddenly began taking out a lot of rage on me. It is amazing to me that someone so well-known and highly thought of, could have something like that going on, and not take the steps he needed to take to resolve them. I honestly think I can't be the only patient to have had difficulty with him. I'm not provocative, hostile or abusive- more on the anxious and terrified of rejection side of things. I certainly did get angry at him, at times- but it was only very occasionally. I do hope I haven't frightened anyone by telling what happened to me. I know everyone has worries about being rejected by their Ts at times, but,mostly, it never happens- the opposite does.
The good thing is that there is a very calm, experienced and caring new analyst in the picture now.
Posted by pfinstegg on May 12, 2007, at 22:28:03
In reply to Aaaaannnddd..., posted by muffled on May 12, 2007, at 22:12:42
Muffy, I'm just like anyone else- pissed as h*ll one minute, and heartbroken the next. And I keep struggling not to feel that it's all my fault. The new T is very understanding and helpful with everything, so the painful feelings are all calming down- slowly, but they are. The new T is very professional, but I can see that he is shocked and distressed by what happened. I know now that they are both long-term close colleagues and FRIENDS! But the new analyst has definitely put the stress and trauma I endured first. He's definitely let me know that what I am feeling is what counts to him. This is so healing and re-assuring.
Posted by Daisym on May 12, 2007, at 22:50:39
In reply to Re: The new analyst is really good! » Daisym, posted by pfinstegg on May 12, 2007, at 21:58:18
Perhaps it doesn't matter what part is feeling what right now -- all of you is in shock. I tend to fragment when there is conflict among feeling states, particularly the self-blame stuff.
I think it would bother me to know they are friends - I'd want to ask questions or see if I could get answers about what happened or how he was now - or particularly is there remorse or sadness on his side? Perhaps in time those answers will come, if you need them.
And no, I haven't followed up on the potential date as of yet. I'm still pretty red faced. My therapist laughed, long and hard -- and then said "call him." Sheesh. I'm too old for this. It brings up a whole slew of feelings that I haven't had to contend with for awhile.
Posted by pfinstegg on May 12, 2007, at 23:25:48
In reply to Re: The new analyst is really good! » pfinstegg, posted by Daisym on May 12, 2007, at 22:50:39
Strangely, even though I'm curious, I know I'll never find out why it happened. It's undoubtedly a secret from his colleagues (and most importantly, probably from himself)- they would be as shocked as my new analyst is, as he has the reputation of being very empathic, looked up to by the younger analysts, an excellent training analyst, etc. To complicate matters, my husband (and me by extension), my old analyst AND my new analyst all belong to a club here in the city for people who have contributed something to their particular fields. There's lots of musical and lecture evenings, dances and lunch and dinner tables with particular discussion topics. The old analyst runs a table on classical literature; my husband runs one on naturalist topics.
We are all there pretty often! Help! I feel like moving to a new city! I've kept my maiden name, so neither one of them knew what my husband's name was, and I had to make sure they both knew, so they wouldn't show up next to us for lunch or dinner! All the boundaries seem to take a lot of work to keep in place. One time my old analyst sat down next to my husband for dinner, and they had a long conversation about all sorts of things. Well, you can see I have an unusual situation! Right now, I don't want to know anything. Really, I do know- it's very painful for him also- he said so in a letter. It's not what he wanted or planned to have happen- it just happened, somehow.Well now, Daisy! There's no hurry about the guy, and of course it's very, very hard to start dating after being married and raising a family. I think those are pretty scary, uncharted waters for everyone. I gather, though, that although you have his card, he doesn't have yours.
Posted by Fallsfall on May 20, 2007, at 7:46:18
In reply to Re: The new analyst is really good! » Daisym, posted by pfinstegg on May 12, 2007, at 23:25:48
Pfinstegg,
We often think that our therapist is the only one who could possibly help us - the only one who really understands us. I know I felt that way about my first therapist. I couldn't imagine life without her. But your story shows (so clearly) that not only can we live without our therapist, but that sometimes things can be (dare I say) even better with someone else. There IS life after [fill in the name of your favorite therapist]. And it can be a pretty good life.
Thanks for reminding us.
Falls
Posted by Dinah on May 20, 2007, at 10:17:12
In reply to Re: The new analyst is really good! » Daisym, posted by pfinstegg on May 12, 2007, at 23:25:48
I have to say, you're taking this in such a very healthy way. I can't imagine ever taking it anywhere near as well.
Posted by twinleaf on May 21, 2007, at 2:21:12
In reply to Re: The new analyst is really good!, posted by Fallsfall on May 20, 2007, at 7:46:18
Falls, if I remember correctly, you went to a woman therapist for about eight years, to whom you were very attached, but with whom there were some problems, too. Then you forced yourself out of that relationship, and made a very thorough search for a new one (how you did it is the Babble standard!), found a great male therapist- and then began to make a huge amount of progress- library degree and job, much more self-esteem (I hope I'm really talking about you, and not someone else).
I am beginning to see, now, that there were problems in my relationship with the first analyst. He was sort of seductive- not sexually- but in getting me to be extremely attached to him, and in kind of over-emphasizing my weak areas. The relatively healthy, well-functioning areas just weren't part of it. And there were far too many boundary crossings- he told me too much about his own life and feelings. I know that SOME boundary crossings are considered very important, but I think there were far too many in that relationship.
I'm feeling a little disoriented, having changed my name from Pfinstegg to twinleaf because of a problem in re-registering, but I hope I won't seem like a stranger.
The new analyst is very calm and attentive. At first, I thought he was a bit flat, but I think he was listening hard, and trying to decide if he could be helpful to me. Then, I think he decided that he could be, and the relationship began to form; I think it's going to be a much more balanced one.
There was a lovely boundary crossing when he left for a two-week vacation last Friday. He said, "I'll miss you."
Posted by Dinah on May 21, 2007, at 12:22:51
In reply to Re: The new analyst is really good! » Fallsfall, posted by twinleaf on May 21, 2007, at 2:21:12
Not the sexual sort, no. But I think it would be an interesting separate topic.
Posted by twinleaf on May 22, 2007, at 16:08:25
In reply to Seductiveness in therapy on part of therapist, posted by Dinah on May 21, 2007, at 12:22:51
I agree, Dinah. Everyone, including therapists, are different in the intensity of their needs to be loved, depended upon, thought special, even thought to be sexy. One, in a way, enters a minefield of these needs when you see a therapist- both your own and theirs; you just hope and trust that you will be safe there, and be enabled to grow- that they are mature enough to recognize their own countertransferences and deal with them in a manner that will allow for that. What happened to me is, not just a huge shock to me, but a real and continuing shock to my new therapist, He's helping me a lot with it though. Things are much better than they were a few months ago.
About that phone: you've been such a faithful, hard-working and reliable client- you are not at all demanding- but i would say: ask him to turn off the **** thing!
Posted by lcat10 on May 22, 2007, at 22:23:38
In reply to Re: Aaaaannnddd... » muffled, posted by pfinstegg on May 12, 2007, at 22:28:03
This is so awful, and unfortunately similar to my situation. I had been seeing a psychiatrist for two years, and one year ago he told me to find someone else as he thought we were at an impasse due to my too strong feelings. I got angry with him for sending me to a consult who was a bastard, and I also had some other more positive transference feeling I shared. Well I was devastated and begged him to keep me and said I would try to do what he wanted. This meant of course stuffing my anger and getting more depressed. He had wanted me to do ECT when I first saw him in 2005, and I refused. So, in 2006 I started to try to do what he wanted me to do and talk about all the abuse stuff; I felt my guts were being wrenched out, and I felt I was getting more and more depressed. He was out of his area of expertise trying to deal with my abuse history. To make a long story short, I ended up doing the ECT he wanted me to do, this past March, and ended it when I began to see some serious cognitive side effects. Some still persist but are not interfering with my job.
Anyway, I was upset that 7 treatments into the ECT, I started to have real problems and quit the ECT. My psychiatrist and the ECT doc both agreed this was the right thing to do, but I was scared I might never be able to do my job and was angry about agreeing to the ECT and angry with both psychiatrists. So, my psychiatrist starting acting stern and mean, and as had happened in 2006, I found myself dissociating when I was with him. I was/am less depressed, the only postive from ECT, and I knew I had to find someone else which I did. He is a training and supervising analyst in my city. He is more what I was used to from 20 years ago, and I have seen him now eight times.
Last Saturday it was weird though as I went to a workshop where he was presenting. I had signed up for it before I knew him and had planned to wait to see him until after the workshop, but I could not handle things with the other doctor. My new doctor said it me right off that it sounded as if I did the ECT as a gift to my old doctor. This left me feeling like sh*t. He was fine with me being at the workshop too. He knows my profession and my background and training, and I am probably being mysterious but feel I need to. I think this will be so much better for me, but like you I feel angry one minute and then cry the next as I really liked this other doctor and cannot believe he treated me with such distain at times. Most recently I wanted to see him twice per week as I felt I was unraveling (last month), and he said no that he did not think it would be good for me to do more than once per week. My new doctor wanted to do twice per week right away and even more than twice per week, but I can't afford more. He also asked me about lying down on the couch, and I said no as right now I am not feeling too trusting and to talk about abuse with someone new who I can't see is too threatening.
I hope things work out for you and for me too. I think you are right about your previous doctor having some sort of countertransference reaction. Did you show your new doctor the invite your old doctor sent you regarding coming back to him? Sounds like this old doctor needs to understand he is being inappropriate.
lcat10
Posted by Fallsfall on May 23, 2007, at 8:38:34
In reply to Re: The new analyst is really good! » Fallsfall, posted by twinleaf on May 21, 2007, at 2:21:12
"I'll miss you."
How lovely.
Yes, you have my story right. I think that the significant part of both my story and yours is that the new therapist WILL be different from the old one. But that difference can be not only not a bad thing, but can actually be a good thing as well. It is hard to adjust to a new therapist - every one has their own quirks and differences, and even within theoretical groups (i.e. psychodynamic, analysis, CBT) there is great variation.
I think the big message is that not only can you survive without your current therapist (whether they are "good" or not), but you just might end up in a better place after changing therapists.
I really like my therapist now, and wouldn't want to change (mostly because we seem to be making good progress - don't break a good thing!). If, however, things fell apart, I know that I could find someone else who could help me.
Therapists are not washing machines, and I don't advocate changing therapists on a whim. But I think that therapists need to be "good enough", and that probably many of them ARE "good enough". Good enough is not settling - it is just saying that there is a range of skill that will help an individual patient. and you just need to find someone in that range who you can relate to.
Posted by twinleaf on May 27, 2007, at 9:59:17
In reply to Re: Aaaaannnddd... » pfinstegg, posted by lcat10 on May 22, 2007, at 22:23:38
Wow. Our stories do seem very similiar, and it sounds like you got hurt just as badly as I did- by a professional you cared about and trusted. Getting ECT to show trust in him, and not because you felt it was best for you, tells me how much you cared about him. Your new therapist sounds much more positive about you, and much more free of negative counter-transferences. I hope it goes really well for you. Just the fact that he suggested more sessions and the couch indicates to me that he has faith in you, and is prepared to be committed to you. Bit by bit, we can both put these therapeutic nightmares behind us, and, hoprfully, have positive, growing experiences this time. Thank you for sharing your painful story- it made me feel less alone with mine.
Good luck! I hope you will keep us informed of how things go.
Posted by twinleaf on May 27, 2007, at 10:17:43
In reply to Re: The new analyst is really good!, posted by Fallsfall on May 23, 2007, at 8:38:34
Hi Falls- I'm glad I remembered your history,(and not someone else's!) and also very glad that you feel you are really making progress now. It's true- no two therapists are ever going to be the same- either as therapists, or in their dynamics with particular patients/clients. I feel very encouraged by the relationship that is developing between me and the new analyst- in part, because it is not as emotional and intense as the one I had with the previous one- which really did spin out of control on his part, I think. The previous analyst thought I had an Ego State Disorder and severe PTSD. The new one doesn't think so much in terms of Ego States, and seems much more flexible and open. He would like me to talk about whatever I want, (and I will also talk about things I don't want!), but I think it would be hard to get a diagnosis out of him. And he has telephoned ME twice in three months to say that he is out of town, and to give me his weekend number. Just knowing that he cared enough to do that is such a good feeling. I never call them, but still..
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