![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 60 to 84 of 136. Go back in thread:
Posted by muffled on January 18, 2007, at 14:20:58
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS), posted by Deneb on January 18, 2007, at 13:20:49
> I'm sorry I don't know how to be a better person. I'm sorry I'm not changing fast enough for some people. I'm getting help, but I'm not going to change overnight.
>
> Deneb***Deneb, change is hard, but like I said, you have improved SO much. I don't know that this is so much bout you anymore, unfortunately you have been caught as an example, but this shall pass.
I just think people are concerned that it not happen again with other persons another time(NOT meaning you Deneb, but some other babblers in the future). That there be clear rules in place about this, cuz its pretty hard to take.
I am SO not better than you Deneb.
I am an idiot supreme.
I just think what you are doing is just right.
Your handling this well.
You are growing as a person.
Your on the right track.
I am very impressed w/you.
Well done.
Muffled
Posted by Deneb on January 18, 2007, at 15:06:28
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce, posted by Honore on January 18, 2007, at 12:15:03
Posted by Deneb on January 18, 2007, at 15:07:16
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS), posted by muffled on January 18, 2007, at 14:20:58
Posted by one woman cine on January 18, 2007, at 15:53:46
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS), posted by Honore on January 18, 2007, at 12:31:32
I appreciate your post and the points are well taken. I am also inclined to feel the effects of the idea of "ganging up" - & I have share your beliefs about private communication versus public.
However, the issue for me is the issue of suicide et al (& the attending behaviors) - & the repeated patterns that that deleterious to both the poster and the pb community as a whole.
The answer to this is not silence. Either silencing the poster (or shaming) or silencing the issue seems to have cumulative negative effects.
& it is true that one could choose to choose to ignore the posts, however - it is human nature IMO to want to help, no matter what kind of space we might be in.
I think, for me, historically I withdraw myself from a situation when I have no hope of helping or creating a better situation than the one that I am being presented with.
If I put myself in posters "xx" (& not necessarily deneb) & people began to ignore me, I would probably begin to feel uncomfortable and alienated, at best. I do not want that for anyone.
Likewise, I would hope someone could see things from my perspective of trying to help with a distressing topic/post and genuinely try to not create the same pattern repeatedly.
Posted by one woman cine on January 18, 2007, at 15:56:01
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS), posted by Deneb on January 18, 2007, at 13:20:49
> I'm sorry I don't know how to be a better person. I'm sorry I'm not changing fast enough for some people. I'm getting help, but I'm not going to change overnight.
>
> Deneb*What do you mean by getting help?
I, presonally, am not asking you change overnight. However, I think it is good practice to call your pdoc when you overdose. I think that means you are getting the help you need, when you need it.
Posted by one woman cine on January 18, 2007, at 15:57:32
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS), posted by muffled on January 18, 2007, at 14:20:58
It's not administrative, but you have a big heart - & the rest will come soon enough...
Keep the faith and the rest will follow.
Posted by Deneb on January 18, 2007, at 15:59:49
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS), posted by one woman cine on January 18, 2007, at 15:56:01
> What do you mean by getting help?
>
> I, presonally, am not asking you change overnight. However, I think it is good practice to call your pdoc when you overdose. I think that means you are getting the help you need, when you need it.I *DID* try to call my pdoc when I overdosed. She CANNOT be reached after hours and I have a feeling she doesn't want me to call her. She thinks I can deal with it on my own through self talk or by writing about it on Babble.
I'm getting help by seeing a T. My pdoc IS my T. I tell her *everything*.
Deneb*
Posted by one woman cine on January 18, 2007, at 16:03:59
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS) » one woman cine, posted by Deneb on January 18, 2007, at 15:59:49
I thought you said you would try to call your pdoc the next morning, since you couldn't reach her that night - & the next morning you said, you decided not to call.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
"She thinks I can deal with it on my own through self talk or by writing about it on Babble."
Is this true? She said this to you?
Posted by Deneb on January 18, 2007, at 16:09:13
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS) » Deneb, posted by one woman cine on January 18, 2007, at 16:03:59
> I thought you said you would try to call your pdoc the next morning, since you couldn't reach her that night - & the next morning you said, you decided not to call.
>
> Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> "She thinks I can deal with it on my own through self talk or by writing about it on Babble."
>
> Is this true? She said this to you?
>My pdoc has never ever said it's OK to call her while in crises. She has never said I could call her. I don't think she wants me to call her. She asked me what I could do next time I want to OD. We came up with some things to do. I can try to think rationally about things by using cognitive behavioural techniques. I can call the Distress Centre. I can post to Babble about it. I can try to distract myself. Those were the things we came up with. She didn't offer that I could call her. I don't think she wants me to call her.
Deneb*
Posted by one woman cine on January 18, 2007, at 16:12:12
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS) » one woman cine, posted by Deneb on January 18, 2007, at 16:09:13
You are saying that she has never explicity made the staement "don't call"? right?
You didn't answer my original question - you said you would call your pdoc the next day at the urging of other babblers, yet the next day, you said you decided not to.
Please correct me if I am wrong. I may be confused.
Posted by one woman cine on January 18, 2007, at 16:15:27
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS) » one woman cine, posted by Deneb on January 18, 2007, at 16:09:13
Oh & plus, since you pdoc is an MD - they take a hippocratic outh to save lives.
Have you asked her if you could call or are you hoping she will ask you?
"She didn't offer that I could call her. I don't think she wants me to call her."
It is important to be able to ask for the right help for ourselves, with the right people, when we need it. Your pdoc is that person, calling her after an OD seems reasonable to me.
Posted by one woman cine on January 18, 2007, at 16:17:12
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS), posted by one woman cine on January 18, 2007, at 16:15:27
I can't talk about this anymore on this thread, it's admin - OK?
Posted by Deneb on January 18, 2007, at 16:17:53
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS) » Deneb, posted by one woman cine on January 18, 2007, at 16:12:12
> You are saying that she has never explicity made the staement "don't call"? right?
>
> You didn't answer my original question - you said you would call your pdoc the next day at the urging of other babblers, yet the next day, you said you decided not to.
>
> Please correct me if I am wrong. I may be confused.I'm pretty sure my pdoc doesn't want me to call her. She's never explicitly made the statement, but she has never ever told me it's OK to call her.
I decided not to call her the next day mostly because I didn't think she would want to hear from me. I have to learn to deal with things on my own. I can't call my pdoc everytime I want to hurt myself. I told her about it at our appointment. She didn't seem concerned.
Deneb*
Posted by Phillipa on January 18, 2007, at 17:34:50
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS) » one woman cine, posted by Deneb on January 18, 2007, at 16:17:53
Deneb from my own observations you seem to be able to calm yourself down when you concentrate on something else. But please let your pdoc know about your distressing med symtoms. Love phillipa you know I care bunches about you.
Posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 17:50:19
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce, posted by Honore on January 18, 2007, at 12:15:03
Well my motive is not to gang up on anyone, my motive is for something to be done about the behavior no matter who is doing it. Plus I am not the only person on Babble that has had to deal with this, so it isn't just about me.
Is the behavior happening to me again? Yes it is , like last night in chat. I am not accusing anyone, just stating a fact, because you did ask.
If someone is truely sorry, and they know how a certain person feels about a behavior, why would they continue to contact this person when they specially did a "do not post" whether or not it was the under the old rules or not? All I want is the behavior to stop,and to be left alone, is that too much to ask? I feel I have taken all the steps I can. And now under the new rules, I was told by a deputy that I would have to state to Dr. Bob on why I want a Do Not Post, even though I posted it under the old rules. It sure seems like the responsiblity is on the victims shoulders if you ask me.
Posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 17:59:21
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS) » Deneb, posted by Phillipa on January 18, 2007, at 17:34:50
This thread is going through so many things, and now my concern is that the reason will get forgotten like last time, because of all the other stuff.
I feel some of these other issues belong on other boards or at least have a different thread started.
I really wish we could stay on the topic of using sucide as a way to threaten another babbler. Thanks
Posted by sunnydays on January 18, 2007, at 18:20:55
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS) » one woman cine, posted by Deneb on January 18, 2007, at 15:59:49
> > What do you mean by getting help?
> >
> > I, presonally, am not asking you change overnight. However, I think it is good practice to call your pdoc when you overdose. I think that means you are getting the help you need, when you need it.
>
> I *DID* try to call my pdoc when I overdosed. She CANNOT be reached after hours and I have a feeling she doesn't want me to call her. She thinks I can deal with it on my own through self talk or by writing about it on Babble.
>
> I'm getting help by seeing a T. My pdoc IS my T. I tell her *everything*.
>
> Deneb*
I really don't want to offend you Deneb, but if your pdoc thinks you can help yourself by writing about it when you overdose, you need to find a new pdoc. ODing is a medically serious thing, and should not be taken so lightly by a medical professional that they do not advise you to seek immediate medical help when you OD.sunnydays
Posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 20:06:48
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS), posted by sunnydays on January 18, 2007, at 18:20:55
Happyflower is no more
Happyflower won't be left alone, even after asking nicely with a "please just leave me alone" in chat. No answer I asked several times in chat, nothing.
Dr. BOb says try to work it out ourselves, I tried, it didn't work. I have tried a request offically of "Do Not Post" but now with the new rules, it is void from what I understand.
Instead in chat I get oh, is happyflower talking to me? than that means the DNP post is not in effect. Was it EVER I ask?Sorry, but I have tried to protect myself and I have tried to have Babble protect me, so I can be happy on babble and talk and offer support, but I can't continue to be here anymore. I GIVE UP!!! All I wanted is to be left alone, I have even asked nicely, well that isn't going to happen is it.
My T has taught me not to put up and except things that hurt me, well I am hurt so I am leaving. It is too bad because I really liked alot of people here, but the price is too high to pay. I will not allow my self to feel harrassed, or pressured, or threatenend, and yes, I used the "I statements" But it doesn't matter, I am removing Babble from my favorites, I am really leaving now. I have had enough. I have had enough. I have had enough. Goodbye, and peace to everyone. (even Deneb)
Posted by fayeroe on January 18, 2007, at 20:27:26
In reply to Just never mind any of this, it doesn't matter, posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 20:06:48
i'm reall sorry that this turned out as it did. we tried..........pat
Posted by Honore on January 18, 2007, at 20:30:32
In reply to Just never mind any of this, it doesn't matter, posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 20:06:48
I hope you don't give up Happyflower.
Maybe your T told you to take care of yourself and not go places where you get hurt. That's one way to handle situations, and if Babble is hurting you, I wouldn't want that to continue.
But sometimes, when I feel hurt and upset about things here, and say that I'm not coming back-- which happens-- my T thinks I can stay connected and handle the situation, and find ways to protect myself, within this place. Even if something happens that hurts or jars me-- or I feel out of step of sympathy, or disrespected, or whatever it is.
Sometimes, I've learned that I can survive and be okay even if I feel those things-- I can contain the feelings, and move on-- and let them recede. It's amazing sometimes, how over time, things that seem overwhelming and somehow unacceptable are dwarfed and become insubstantial and hard even to reimagine fully.
The pressure you feel might stem from someone else-- but it also is internal pressure-- and that part could shift-- and if you stick around, or come back, you might realize that it's safer here than you think.
You make a great contribution, and your leaving would be a loss. And this place might have good things to offer you.
I hope you can work through the feelings and come back, or --even better, from my perspective--stay.
Honore
Posted by ElaineM on January 18, 2007, at 20:35:26
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS), posted by sunnydays on January 18, 2007, at 18:20:55
Posted by 10derHeart on January 18, 2007, at 21:55:03
In reply to how do you get a link to post? (nm), posted by ElaineM on January 18, 2007, at 20:35:26
Hmm, not sure I understand your question, Elaine, but maybe I do....
If I want to put a link to another Babble post (or any web page, for that matter) in my post, I first go that that post (or web page) and open it. Its "address" (URL) will then appear in the bar at the top of your browser. Copy and paste (using 'right click', for PC users) this address into your post, and it will be 'clickable.'
If that's not what you meant, I'm sorry. I can try again, just let me know :-)
Posted by 10derHeart on January 18, 2007, at 22:15:18
In reply to Re: Just never mind any of this, it doesn't matter » Happyflower, posted by Honore on January 18, 2007, at 20:30:32
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 19, 2007, at 21:11:19
In reply to My thoughts exactly, Honore (nm) » Honore, posted by 10derHeart on January 18, 2007, at 22:15:18
okay, I didn't read the entire thread in full detail. my attentions wavers.
Here's what I think about this. Someone is communicating with me in a way that hurts me. I ask them not to communicate with me. Do Not Post/Do Not Babblemail etc. I make it known that I am ignoring them in Babble-chat, should the situation arise that we are both chatting at the same time.
That person is hurt that I ask them not to communicate with me. They don't understand it, and so they try to find more information (including initiating communication with me).
Whose hurt is more important? Who does Dr. Bob choose to protect?
Me? or that person?
strictly hypothetical. no names. no incidents. just this scenario.
*****************
next question:I have requested that someone does not communicate to me (DNP, DNbabblemail, DNchat.)
Now that person writes a post about me. Uses my name, or leaves it open for easy inference. That person writes that my actions have hurt him. That person writes that my actions have hurt him so badly that he is feeling like he wants to hurt himself. That person writes that when I don't communicate with him, he wants to die. That person writes that when I don't communicate with him, he feels misunderstood, and feels like slitting his wrists.
Who is protected? Me, or Him? and WHY?
*******
The situation escalates.
I write that I feel that he has put me in a situation that makes me feel extremely uncomfortable. I write that he has threatened suicide unless I respond to him in some way. I write that I am triggered by suicidal people, especially suicidal people who make me feel responsible for their pain.
He writes that he cannot imagine living in a world in which I will not communicate with him. He writes that he must be able to speak with me to understand how he has hurt me. He writes that if he cannot speak with me and find out how to feel better, that he will continue to feel suicidal.
Yet, I will not speak to him. I speak about him in vague terms.
He speaks about me in less than vague terms.
******
Who will get protection?
Is it an issue of favoritism? Who hurts more gets more protection?
-Ll
Posted by Phillipa on January 19, 2007, at 21:49:35
In reply to my thoughts **suicide triggers**, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 19, 2007, at 21:11:19
Lurpsie I think you need to become a lawyer. Love Phillipa
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Administration | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.