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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 136. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Happyflower on January 17, 2007, at 17:29:32
I believe that threatening sucide when another member doesn't comply to thier wishes need to be dealt with in a more appropriate, stricter more way that needs to be taken more seriously.
A Do Not Pressure warning is way too leanant in what I believe is way past the level of being civil.
Posted by wishingstar on January 17, 2007, at 18:00:26
In reply to Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done, posted by Happyflower on January 17, 2007, at 17:29:32
I havent contributed to this discussion up until now, but I just feel the need to put in my two cents. I agree with happyflower completely. I'm sorry if this is a little unorganized.
If I said to someone, "xxx, you made me feel terrible and youre not helping me - in fact, you make everything worse! this is all your fault" I'd be blocked, no questions asked, right? If I was lucky maybe a PBC, but it wouldnt be let go I'm sure. To me, a statement like the ones being discussed ("if you dont xxx, ill hurt myself") is exactly this, but worse. That statement strongly implies that the person being posted to is unhelpful and to blame for someone elses pain. To me, it is the same exact statement, just phrased differently. There have been other cases here I'm sure (although I couldnt cite any in particular) where things which are uncivil are clearly implied and the poster is blocked or PBCed.
I guess some may argue that the implication I hear in the "if you dont, i will..." statement is incorrect. Others may interpret it differently if it were directed at them, but if it were directed at me, I KNOW I'd feel bad, uncomfortable, helpless, and put down, and hurt. This reminds me of an issue I've seen on the politics board before... for instance, if someone makes a statement either for or against a political figure, and receives a block for it... even if it was rather mild and unlikely that anyone was personally offended, the site seems to operate on the idea that IF someone could be offended, it's not civil. I understand this. And so what I'm trying to express here, as others have, is that I WOULD be offended to receive a "if you dont, i will..." post directed at me. No maybe about it. Why protect us from something that just may offend someone, but continue to allow things that many people have expressed IS offensive to them?
Dr Bob, I'd be interested in hearing your rationale or thinking regarding allowing these posts. I dont want to argue this point, but I would really like to understand it. Perhaps it would help me (and maybe others) to better understand where you're coming from.
Posted by fayeroe on January 17, 2007, at 18:41:00
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done, posted by wishingstar on January 17, 2007, at 18:00:26
well put........you've explained exactly how i feel about this issue.
hopefully bob will be able to answer your request......
Posted by Dinah on January 17, 2007, at 19:07:51
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done, posted by wishingstar on January 17, 2007, at 18:00:26
It *isn't* allowed, if I understand Dr. Bob's interpretation correctly. Like anything else, there is a Please Do Not Pressure, and if the behavior continues, a block.
If anyone is on the receiving side of pressure through babblemail, posts, or chat, it should be reported to Dr. Bob through email or by the Report This Post function. If he agrees that it is pressuring, he will respond with a Please Don't Pressure or a block, depending on whether the poster has already been warned.
Posted by Glydin on January 17, 2007, at 22:38:25
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done, posted by Dinah on January 17, 2007, at 19:07:51
As I understand, the "Don't pressure others.." falls under the catagory of the civility guidelines, therefore, I don't consider it any different from the other behaviors associated with non-civil behaviors.
For whatever reason, this recent "event" led to the fourth warning a poster had received and yet, no block. Midgating circumstances? I don't know. I do know allowances have been made before and that situation also left a bad taste in a number of poster's mouths (and typing fingers).
To me, it boils down to accountibility for our behavior.....and it is about expected behavior on the boards and their consequences, it's not personal.... Some of us are held to that and some of us don't seem to be.
Posted by sleepygirl on January 17, 2007, at 22:41:08
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done, posted by wishingstar on January 17, 2007, at 18:00:26
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!
I agree with wishingstar
Posted by justyourlaugh on January 17, 2007, at 22:43:05
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done, posted by Dinah on January 17, 2007, at 19:07:51
d..i say this not to hurt you and i dont hate bob or think he is a bad person..but..you can email bob..unless you are "so many nasty things could go here" you will not get an answer in time to help ...
Posted by Glydin on January 17, 2007, at 22:43:14
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done, posted by Glydin on January 17, 2007, at 22:38:25
> As I understand, the "Don't pressure others.." falls under the catagory of the civility guidelines, therefore, I don't consider it any different from the other behaviors associated with non-civil behaviors.
>I guess to clarify, I am saying, in this case, this *specific* behavior does not have to repeat if the poster has had "Please be Civil" warnings prior to the "Don't pressure others" warning.... Incivility should "count" as incivility.
Posted by justyourlaugh on January 17, 2007, at 22:43:53
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done » Dinah, posted by justyourlaugh on January 17, 2007, at 22:43:05
Posted by Deneb on January 17, 2007, at 23:00:26
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done, posted by Glydin on January 17, 2007, at 22:38:25
Are you talking about me? Do people want to get me blocked? I don't think I pressured anyone. I simply write that I would *feel* suicidal, I didn't threaten.
If I had threatened I would have wrote: I will kill myself if you don't do X. Can we let go of this now and move on? Is this going to haunt me for the rest of my life?
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on January 17, 2007, at 23:01:22
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done, posted by Deneb on January 17, 2007, at 23:00:26
Posted by sleepygirl on January 17, 2007, at 23:10:17
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done, posted by Deneb on January 17, 2007, at 23:00:26
I did believe indeed that I was responding to your particular style of posting.
It often feels provocative to me and distressing.
.........consider it feedback
metacommunication can sometimes send the strongest message
-sg
Posted by Deneb on January 17, 2007, at 23:22:05
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done » Deneb, posted by sleepygirl on January 17, 2007, at 23:10:17
I'm sorry I don't know how to be a better person. Do a lot of people find my posts provocative and distressing?
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on January 17, 2007, at 23:29:41
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done » Deneb, posted by sleepygirl on January 17, 2007, at 23:10:17
I think feedback is good, but it needs to be constructive: What should I do versus what should I not do?
Deneb*
Posted by muffled on January 17, 2007, at 23:42:18
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done, posted by Deneb on January 17, 2007, at 23:00:26
> Are you talking about me? Do people want to get me blocked? I don't think I pressured anyone. I simply write that I would *feel* suicidal, I didn't threaten.
>
> If I had threatened I would have wrote: I will kill myself if you don't do X. Can we let go of this now and move on? Is this going to haunt me for the rest of my life?**Deneb, I dunno, but the moment has passed. I would hope there's not a retroactive block really. Or not a long one if so. I dunno what could happen. I think the situation IS an example of something that needs to change. I can agree with that.
And I don't remmebr the actual post, but I am sure you don't truly intend to harm. I think mebbe its a way you cope in dealing with people, and its not good, but you HAVE improved no doubt. However this IS a mental health website, and its starting to dawn on me, why the rules are the way they are. (NOT that I agree with ALL of them) But this is a chance to learn to find better ways perhaps of expressing frustration etc.
Sometimes, lotsa times, lessons are painful it would seem.
But you hurt, and learn, and hopefully move on a better person for it.
So no offense to you Denb, your lotsa fun.
But I am afraid I would have to put MHO on Bob making it clear WHAT the policy is, and what happened in this situ. And was something missed that should have been addressed.
IMHO suicide is a sad, terrible, final, painful to SO many, thing. It is the ultimate of sadness and defeat. I can't express with words.....
And I truly don't think its something to bandy about lightly..or even semi seriously...its deadly serious...and so so sad :(
Muffled
Posted by Deneb on January 17, 2007, at 23:50:04
In reply to something better needs to be done-yes » Deneb, posted by muffled on January 17, 2007, at 23:42:18
Can someone point out to me the words that are provocative and distressing? I want the actual quotes. I do believe I was civil. Even if they really are provocative and distressing, it's not uncivil to be provocative or distressing.
Deneb*
Posted by muffled on January 18, 2007, at 0:01:39
In reply to Re: something better needs to be done-yes, posted by Deneb on January 17, 2007, at 23:50:04
> Can someone point out to me the words that are provocative and distressing? I want the actual quotes. I do believe I was civil. Even if they really are provocative and distressing, it's not uncivil to be provocative or distressing.
>
> Deneb***Sorry deneb, I don't know where the posts are.
but
Main Entry: pro·voc·a·tive
: serving or tending to <provoke> , excite, or stimulate <a provocative question>Main Entry: pro·voke
1 a archaic : to arouse to a feeling or action b : to incite to anger
2 a : to call forth (as a feeling or action) : EVOKE provoke laughter b : to stir up purposely <provoke a fight> c : to provide the needed stimulus for <will provoke a lot of discussion>Main Entry: 2distress
1 : to subject to *great* strain or difficulties <homes distressed by poverty>
2 archaic : to force or overcome by inflicting pain
3 : to cause to worry or be troubled : UPSET <don't let the news distress you>So Deneb. What do you think?
IS it civil to provoke and cause distress to others?
Really?
I am NOT trying to badger you by ANY means. I just want you to see the reality of it, so mebbe you can make sure you can moderate this behavior so you DON'T get blocked in future. I like to see you in chat. But I want it to be OK here fo all. thats all.
Muffled
Posted by muffled on January 18, 2007, at 0:16:20
In reply to Definitions » Deneb, posted by muffled on January 18, 2007, at 0:01:39
I think for those of us (me incl) who need to work on moderating our behaviors when we get upset, is to mebbe discuss on babble while we are calm, and talking with T's, bout what we can do to deal with our explosive barrage of distress when we get upset with something. It is very strong.
Gad, I starting to sound like someone I know, but I guess its just that there's things you can accomplish on this website, and things that are not appropriate to be doing here. Mebbe this isn't a place to work on management of out of control emotions 'in the moment' for alot of reasons....
I starting to make myself feel nautious with piousness, so I will shut TFU(the F up) now.
Excuse my piety, I SO full of crap really.
And DENEB, hang in there.
Happyflower I SO glad to see you posting :)
Muffled
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 18, 2007, at 0:21:20
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done » Deneb, posted by sleepygirl on January 17, 2007, at 23:10:17
> It often feels provocative to me and distressing.
Keeping in mind that the idea here is not to post anything that could lead others to feel accused, could you please rephrase that? Maybe using an I-statement? For more about I-statements, please see:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20040112/msgs/320097.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 18, 2007, at 0:21:29
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done, posted by Glydin on January 17, 2007, at 22:38:25
> For whatever reason, this recent "event" led to the fourth warning a poster had received and yet, no block. Midgating circumstances? I don't know. I do know allowances have been made before and that situation also left a bad taste in a number of poster's mouths
Hmm, is favoritism a concern?
Bob
Posted by NikkiT2 on January 18, 2007, at 0:48:23
In reply to Re: allowances, posted by Dr. Bob on January 18, 2007, at 0:21:29
maybe not favouritism..
but fear. fear that threats will be carried out.
its making babble a rather unpleasant place.
Posted by muffled on January 18, 2007, at 1:02:20
In reply to Re: allowances » Dr. Bob, posted by NikkiT2 on January 18, 2007, at 0:48:23
And you know WHY some are upset by this?
Its cuz we LIKE you.
We do not want you to go.
We are honestly afraid you will do something.
That you will do permanent damage, that you could die.
I do not want this to ever happen.
Cuz we DO care about you.
It does scare me sometimes Deneb.
You have alot of sweetness, you are young, and have stuff to learn. Learning is a lifelong process.
You are improving.
There may be setbacks, but your moving ahead in a positive way.
I am not perfect, Bob is not perfect, nobddy is perfect.
We all learning.
Muffled
Posted by Declan on January 18, 2007, at 1:19:49
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done, posted by Glydin on January 17, 2007, at 22:43:14
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 18, 2007, at 1:35:14
In reply to Re: allowances, posted by Dr. Bob on January 18, 2007, at 0:21:29
> > For whatever reason, this recent "event" led to the fourth warning a poster had received and yet, no block. Midgating circumstances? I don't know. I do know allowances have been made before and that situation also left a bad taste in a number of poster's mouths
>
> Hmm, is favoritism a concern?
>
> BobDr Bob, I don't know if favoritism is a concern or not but I too have wondered why no block was issued with this type of behavior....I think it was Wishingstar that said it best...Please do something about this to stop the threats and damage it could cause someone who is or may be on the receiving end. I know I would be crushed if I did or didn't do something that in the end would cause ...or rather allow me to FEEL I caused their suicide. I believe many agree with this being a major issue on here.
Could these posters who post this kind of thing just be allowed to say..I feel LIKE...and then state they feel like doing things to themselves LEAVING OUT other posters, posters name and behavior or lack of it? Just some ideas, thoughts and things kicking around in my head. Could you or others in the mod team feel youre being held hostage because if you block them they may do something?
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 18, 2007, at 1:36:24
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done, posted by wishingstar on January 17, 2007, at 18:00:26
VERY WELL SAID.,..Thank you
> I havent contributed to this discussion up until now, but I just feel the need to put in my two cents. I agree with happyflower completely. I'm sorry if this is a little unorganized.
>
> If I said to someone, "xxx, you made me feel terrible and youre not helping me - in fact, you make everything worse! this is all your fault" I'd be blocked, no questions asked, right? If I was lucky maybe a PBC, but it wouldnt be let go I'm sure. To me, a statement like the ones being discussed ("if you dont xxx, ill hurt myself") is exactly this, but worse. That statement strongly implies that the person being posted to is unhelpful and to blame for someone elses pain. To me, it is the same exact statement, just phrased differently. There have been other cases here I'm sure (although I couldnt cite any in particular) where things which are uncivil are clearly implied and the poster is blocked or PBCed.
>
> I guess some may argue that the implication I hear in the "if you dont, i will..." statement is incorrect. Others may interpret it differently if it were directed at them, but if it were directed at me, I KNOW I'd feel bad, uncomfortable, helpless, and put down, and hurt. This reminds me of an issue I've seen on the politics board before... for instance, if someone makes a statement either for or against a political figure, and receives a block for it... even if it was rather mild and unlikely that anyone was personally offended, the site seems to operate on the idea that IF someone could be offended, it's not civil. I understand this. And so what I'm trying to express here, as others have, is that I WOULD be offended to receive a "if you dont, i will..." post directed at me. No maybe about it. Why protect us from something that just may offend someone, but continue to allow things that many people have expressed IS offensive to them?
>
> Dr Bob, I'd be interested in hearing your rationale or thinking regarding allowing these posts. I dont want to argue this point, but I would really like to understand it. Perhaps it would help me (and maybe others) to better understand where you're coming from.
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