![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 49 to 73 of 116. Go back in thread:
Posted by Barbara Cat on March 29, 2003, at 10:36:12
In reply to Adding, substracting, wishing and hoping, posted by Ponder on March 28, 2003, at 23:44:10
Hi All,
I'm with you in this frustration. I went through a time recently really believing I could do this thing alone or with drastically reduced meds. Lots of yoga, meditation, eating healthy, reading how to say 'bye' to your mood disorder. It felt shakey all the time but I was doing it until a major incident hit (my mom's death). Then I went into the abyss very badly, even though on lithium and lamictal. Not very high doses, but enough thus far.Since starting nortriptyline in February I'm doing well. I don't like the side effects, especially combined with lithium - very dry mouth, tremors, constipation. I keep thinking that when life gets more stable I'll try going it alone again. Hah! think again. Life is rarely stable and doesn't seem like it's going to get any better with all the insanity out there. I have a dream that I'll learn enough about how to just be with it, to have my inner resources strong enough to not affect my center. Until knowing how to do it better, I apparently need my chemistry tweaked. BTW, I personally do not believe lamictal is enough to deal with bipolar depression, even when combined with lithium, especially alone. I guess it depends on the dose, but like many of you, at higher doses I felt more anxious and depressed. The most helpful for me has been adding nortrip. It's not an SSRI at least.
Barbara
Posted by Ron Hill on March 29, 2003, at 13:03:10
In reply to Re: Adding, substracting, wishing and hoping » Ponder, posted by catmint on March 29, 2003, at 2:26:46
Hi Amy,
> My pdoc is the same way, ready to prescribe what I tell him I think I need (this last time it was Trileptal added to the Lam, but now I am reconsidering).
I know that it is still early in your Trileptal trial, but I'm curious. What are your first impressions of this medication? Specifically:
How does it feel in your brain?
How much are you currently taking?
Are there any side effects?
Does it reduce irritability?
Do you feel a mood stabilizing effect?
Does it seem to have any effect (positive or negative) on the depressive side of the equation?
Thanks Amy. As always, I offer you my best regards.
-- Ron
Posted by Ponder on March 29, 2003, at 15:29:45
In reply to Re: Adding, substracting, wishing and hoping » Ponder, posted by catmint on March 29, 2003, at 2:26:46
> Ponder,
> My sentiments exactly! I am on Lamictal for BPII, and still continue to cycle, and I ask myself the same thing, am I really better on meds? I also do massive amounts of yoga and exercise, some meditation, which are truly life savers and I would have to say I am doing much better, but my gosh, it is so hard feeling so intensely all the time!!
> My pdoc is the same way, ready to prescribe what I tell him I think I need (this last time it was Trileptal added to the Lam, but now I am reconsidering). Of course benzos are out of the question!
> I am frustrated as heck having this illness, but we must remember that not only is there two things going on here, depression and mania, but also our distinct personalities like how stubborn we are, or how stuck we are in the past, what disgust us, and what angers us.
> For all that there is psychotherapy, but ya know, you have to find a good one, and who can afford it nowadays?
> My pdoc says that most bipolars do better on meds because the older we get, the worse the cycles become, but do I believe him?
> I have been known to be non-compliant and last summer I thought I was cured! LOL. This fall, I decided to go back on meds, and now it is back to dealing with side effects, worrying that Lamictal might not be that great as monotherapy, and wondering if I can keep my relationships healthy.
> I'm trying to meditate more regularly, which keeps me IN THE MOMENT (which is all there really is).
> Ponder, thanks for your post, take care and hope to hear from you again,
> and now.. I ponder... do we really exist??
> ::AmyAmy,
You're keeping your relationships healthy? What a concept! I figure my relationships would be just fine if only I weren't in them. :-)Yes, the overlap of illness and character has always fascinated me. After all, there are bipolar people who would be difficult and dysfunctional even if they were totally cured of their organic brain condition, then there are extraordinarily brave, generous, selfless people who manage to pretty much keep it together for their friends and families even though they are repeatedly tossed into the jaws of the monster through no fault of their own.
Over the years I've become frustrated with psychotherapists because they seem to think that therapy should be an endless process, that if you don't get better, it's YOUR fault (their skills and abilities are never in question - no accountability), and if you disagree with any of that, you are simply resisting and in denial. OK, and I'm supposed to write a check for how much for that?
Sorry for the rant and negativity. As you can tell, I'm a little frustrated and put out with the current system of care-providers and treatment modalities available to us. This has gone on for so many years. When I learned the other day that schizophrenia is NOT progressive as bipolar is, my childish reaction was "THAT'S NOT FAIR!!" Oh, man. I gotta get this attitude in check.
Anyway, thanks for the response. I see my p-doc April 8. Maybe I can figure something out by then, or cycle to a better place. In the meantime, I feel doubly bad for my self-pity when so many are suffering from the current violence in the world. That's one thing I truly dislike about depression; it turns a person so inward.
Posted by Ponder on March 29, 2003, at 17:35:48
In reply to Re: Adding, substracting, wishing and hoping, posted by Barbara Cat on March 29, 2003, at 10:36:12
> Hi All,
> I'm with you in this frustration. I went through a time recently really believing I could do this thing alone or with drastically reduced meds. Lots of yoga, meditation, eating healthy, reading how to say 'bye' to your mood disorder. It felt shakey all the time but I was doing it until a major incident hit (my mom's death). Then I went into the abyss very badly, even though on lithium and lamictal. Not very high doses, but enough thus far.
>
> Since starting nortriptyline in February I'm doing well. I don't like the side effects, especially combined with lithium - very dry mouth, tremors, constipation. I keep thinking that when life gets more stable I'll try going it alone again. Hah! think again. Life is rarely stable and doesn't seem like it's going to get any better with all the insanity out there. I have a dream that I'll learn enough about how to just be with it, to have my inner resources strong enough to not affect my center. Until knowing how to do it better, I apparently need my chemistry tweaked. BTW, I personally do not believe lamictal is enough to deal with bipolar depression, even when combined with lithium, especially alone. I guess it depends on the dose, but like many of you, at higher doses I felt more anxious and depressed. The most helpful for me has been adding nortrip. It's not an SSRI at least.
> BarbaraBarbara,
I always appreciate your posts for their authenticity and insight. I'm sorry to hear about your loss and can only imagine how destabilizing an event that must have been. I was intrigued also by your observation that along with the sadness and loss was a certain sense of liberation, permission to be an adult, whatever. My own mother has been such a larger-than-life figure for me, in both good and bad ways, that I have always wondered what the world will feel like without her and how I may view myself differently at that time.Well, I should comment about meds to avoid a redirect. Is this the first time you've been on a TCA? I tried them way back in the pre-Prozac era and did not tolerate them at all, nor did I get any benefit. But I was not on any stabilizers either. So I'm curious about your combo. Sounds like you've had negative experiences with SSRIs.
Posted by Barbara Cat on March 30, 2003, at 13:51:02
In reply to Re: Adding, substracting, wishing and hoping » Barbara Cat, posted by Ponder on March 29, 2003, at 17:35:48
My first experience with TCA's was Elavil for a very short time and I hated the side effects and stopped. Next, I was on surmontil, a TCA, back in the early 80's. I did very well on it and then Deseryl came out mid 80's and the pdoc I was seeing at the time thought it was a more effective drug. I did OK on it, but all day drowsyness was a problem so when Prozac came out, that's what I was put on and it's been off and on SSRI/SNRI's ever since, with a few spells of no meds. I have classic Bipolar-II reactions from SSRIs, they work right away, tho with hyperness. Then they don't work at all and increases put into mixed states. When my pdoc suggested a TCA, I though 'oh, that's so yesterday!', but triptyline has been the best so far. It's only since Feb so we'll see.
About Moms, I also had a very close, very loving, very problematic relationship with her. Going home was always so mixed because of good and horrible memories. There's nothing that can prepared you for the emotional spiritual spin when she dies, it will be like nothing you can even imagine. My experience as I was going through it was unbelievably sacred, miraculous, raw, open tenderness and total love and appreciation for this person who had been so close and loved me so much. It was simply mindblowing and I felt like I had been initiated into a powerful group of those who had lost their mothers and are no longer the same person anymore.
Oh, if we could just stay open that way. It was the coming back home and dealing with the financial part, reading the coroner's report, the ongoing legal situation (she was hit by a man who was partially blind), knowing that I will never, ever be loved so completely by anyone again, the realization that not only did I lose a mother, but a whole culture, a town, the East Coast, and feeling that my childhood was indeed over and could never be recaptured. It all felt like major loss and knocked me down. But with that came the shift that yes, my childhood is over, and now it's time to get on with the rest of life. I also have a sense of ease that she's very much OK where she is and I no longer have to worry about her living alone, if she's well, is she happy. I get to go back in April again and finish up moving out and the internment, so I'll be real glad when it's just over and done with.
Posted by PamJeanBrunot on March 31, 2003, at 0:47:46
In reply to Re: Trileptal Trial » catmint, posted by Ron Hill on March 29, 2003, at 13:03:10
Hi Amy,
I just started Trileptal also. I was interested in these questions. I now combine the Trileptal with my Lamictal-like you Amy. This is a first for me-combining 2 mood stabilizers. I hope it is working for you somewhat.
PamMy pdoc is the same way, ready to prescribe what I tell him I think I need (this last time it was Trileptal added to the Lam, but now I am reconsidering).
Posted by catmint on March 31, 2003, at 2:56:17
In reply to Re: Trileptal Trial, posted by PamJeanBrunot on March 31, 2003, at 0:47:46
> Hi Amy,
> I just started Trileptal also. I was interested in these questions. I now combine the Trileptal with my Lamictal-like you Amy. This is a first for me-combining 2 mood stabilizers. I hope it is working for you somewhat.
> Pam
>
> Hi Pam!
I haven't yet started the Trileptal.I guess I am just procrastinating starting it until I get more info.
I would like to know if you don't mind,what dose of Lamictal are you on and for how long? Any other meds? Are you BP11?
Thanks for your post, hopefullly you can let me know soon how feel on this combo.
::Amy
Posted by PamJeanBrunot on March 31, 2003, at 11:29:57
In reply to Re: Trileptal Trial » PamJeanBrunot, posted by catmint on March 31, 2003, at 2:56:17
Hi Amy,
I did the same thing, I really did some serious research, online, as well as a friend who takes Trileptal, and my doc of course. I am on 50mg of Lamictal, and have been on only 50mg for about 2 years. My body is sensitive, and I seem to only need small doses of medications, but in the right combination. The Lamictal alone at 50mg-even though it may not have been a therapeutic dose, has never worked alone. I am a rapid cycler. I have also been diagnosed with major depression in the past. Bipolar 2 has come up, but my psychiatrists have clearly identified me as a cycler. I never get the extreme highs and lows that Bipolars do, so I don't think I fit the label.
I also take Seroquel and Klonopin with the Trileptal and Lamictal.
I wish you the best in deciding if Trileptal is something you choose to try. After day 3 I feel pretty well, just nausea, that's it. I can deal with that, although somewhat very uncomfortable. :-(
Hope this helped,
Pam
> > Hi Pam!
> I haven't yet started the Trileptal.I guess I am just procrastinating starting it until I get more info.
> I would like to know if you don't mind,what dose of Lamictal are you on and for how long? Any other meds? Are you BP11?
> Thanks for your post, hopefullly you can let me know soon how feel on this combo.
> ::Amy
>
Posted by wcfrench on April 3, 2003, at 0:13:19
In reply to Re: Adding, substracting, wishing and hoping » Ponder, posted by Barbara Cat on March 30, 2003, at 13:51:02
Barb
This might seem very mediocre in the department of reprieve from an outside source, but you know that your mother's death of physical life does not mean that she's no longer your mother or that she is no longer thinking of you and loving you. She's there, she's here, always, just like everyone always is. In the words of Tolle, die before you die. Be liberated, comfortable, at peace with death, because it is merely an ending to a body, a transport of something greater within that lives on. Mom thanks me for telling you this. You have that inner happiness and I have seen it, we are never alone, we're all connected. Distance means nothing, time means nothing. In the words of Travis, "Time exists just on your wrist so don't panic. Moments last, and lifetimes are lost in a day." Be gentle with yourself, and let what you feel flow through you, don't resist it in fear. There is nothing to be afraid of, ever. There is no point in resisting, accept through surrender.
Drastic change of subject- I just got back from a week in Vegas. I was dancing in the street literally with the music loud, usually by myself, and provided much entertainment for those around me. I even set up a quarter bucket outside the hotel and tried to sing for money, but I only made $1.25 because most people knew it was a joke. Most days were great.. the pattern seems to be a great daytime (100mg Lamic, 100mg Zoloft) then things seem to get worse as the day draws to a close (or it gets dark, I can't figure out if it just has to do with the night time).. 100mg Lamic, .5mg Klonopin afternoon/night. I altered it slightly by adding 50mg Zoloft in the afternoon and .5 Klonopin in the morning to try and "balance out" what I took in the morning and at night, and it seemed to help. But I still feel better in the morning/day than I do at night. The fearful depression returns, and I can't figure out how to get rid of it. I might try some mid-day meditation. The book "Meditation as Medicine" has been working wonders for me, literally. Any suggestions or related experiences with the day/night cycle? Moon?? Who knows. Just wondering if someone has experienced this. As my first doc said when I was on a complicated cocktail, "if you tell me you feel a certain way, I believe you and don't question why, since there are so many possibilities. We just work from there."Take care,
Charlie
Posted by Tabitha on April 3, 2003, at 2:40:10
In reply to Re: Mom, and my vacation » Barbara Cat, posted by wcfrench on April 3, 2003, at 0:13:19
Hi, why were you dancing in the street-- are you manic or just uninhibited? anyway it sounds very fun and very bold.
I have a predictable day/night cycle, I nearly always feel sane and balanced in the morning, and worked up and crazy at night. I don't know if it's really the day/night, or just that the events of the day are stressful and overstimulating. It's like sleep recharges me, and the day simultaneously wears me out and hypes me up.
Posted by SpreadDaALoha on April 3, 2003, at 5:08:36
In reply to Re: Mom, and my vacation » Barbara Cat, posted by wcfrench on April 3, 2003, at 0:13:19
Isn't the Zoloft therapeutic half-life long enough to where you shouldnt worry about taking some at different parts of day? I know it's longer than a day. I think that isn't necessary or even detrimental. Ask your doctor.
Posted by wcfrench on April 3, 2003, at 9:52:53
In reply to Re: day/night cycle » wcfrench, posted by Tabitha on April 3, 2003, at 2:40:10
:)
No I'm not crazy. (Well, who isn't) But not in that sense. Have you ever been to Fremont Street? It's in downtown Las Vegas, and it's the coolest place I've ever been to. I have stayed on the strip in the Luxor (pyramid)casino and walked the strip and it just doesn't compare to Fremont street. There is a light show with music every hour, the street is closed off to drivers, and all the casinos down there have better odds and cheaper food. I ate the Graveyard special new york steak, eggs, toast, hash browns for $2.99 about 4 nights in a row. The casino I stayed at had 2-deck blackjack and the one next door 1-deck!Anyway, if you've been to the "Fremont Street Experience" you would understand why I was dancing. Only a few people do it though, and circles tend to gather. My friends were around me encouraging my singing for money, but that was later at night, just having fun.
... SpreadDaAloha thanks for your info. I should look it up and see if it makes any difference. I was led to believing this because when I was on Effexor XR, my doc indicated that if I feel depressed/apathetic at a later point in the day to take another 37.5 mg, and I did notice a difference. ... upon looking it up now, I see that the half-life of Effexor is about 5 hours and Zoloft is about 26, so you're right about that, an afternoon dosage shouldn't matter. I wonder if it has something to do with what I took the day/night before? Lamictal has a half-life anywhere from 12 to about 25 hours, averaging about 15 hours if you're on other meds. (Except meds that increase the effect; valproic acid) I take Lamictal twice a day as indicated, so it doesn't seem as if it would have anything to do with that. Klonopin's half-life is "19 to 50" hours with the onset of action lasting about 8-12 hours in adults. I guess I'll just have to take it slowly, changing one thing at a time. It's so frustrating when you are trying to desperately fix a problem that inhibits your life. Sorry for the superfluous post, hope someone benefited from the info. Thx all.
Take care,
CharlieReferences--
Klonopin: http://neuro-www.mgh.harvard.edu/forum/PanicDisordersF/1.16.991.40AMKLONOPIN.LittleKnLamictal: http://www.rxmed.com/b.main/b2.pharmaceutical/b2.1.monographs/CPS-%20Monographs/CPS-%20(General%20Monographs-%20L)/LAMICTAL.html
http://www.labcorp.com/datasets/labcorp/html/chapter/mono/td037700.htmZoloft: http://www.mentalhealth.com/drug/p30-z02.html
Effexor: http://www.join-the-fun.com/effexor-withdrawal.html (with info about Effexor's tough withdrawal period)
Posted by Tabitha on April 3, 2003, at 13:10:28
In reply to Re: not crazy crazy, half-life of Zoloft » Tabitha, posted by wcfrench on April 3, 2003, at 9:52:53
thanks for the tip, next time I'm in Vegas I'll check out Fremont St.
(casting about for some way to get back on-topic)... um, good luck with those meds! and thanks for the links.
Posted by Ritch on April 3, 2003, at 22:23:58
In reply to Re: Mom, and my vacation » Barbara Cat, posted by wcfrench on April 3, 2003, at 0:13:19
> Drastic change of subject- I just got back from a week in Vegas. I was dancing in the street literally with the music loud, usually by myself, and provided much entertainment for those around me. I even set up a quarter bucket outside the hotel and tried to sing for money, but I only made $1.25 because most people knew it was a joke. Most days were great.. the pattern seems to be a great daytime (100mg Lamic, 100mg Zoloft) then things seem to get worse as the day draws to a close (or it gets dark, I can't figure out if it just has to do with the night time).. 100mg Lamic, .5mg Klonopin afternoon/night. I altered it slightly by adding 50mg Zoloft in the afternoon and .5 Klonopin in the morning to try and "balance out" what I took in the morning and at night, and it seemed to help. But I still feel better in the morning/day than I do at night. The fearful depression returns, and I can't figure out how to get rid of it. I might try some mid-day meditation. The book "Meditation as Medicine" has been working wonders for me, literally. Any suggestions or related experiences with the day/night cycle? Moon?? Who knows. Just wondering if someone has experienced this. As my first doc said when I was on a complicated cocktail, "if you tell me you feel a certain way, I believe you and don't question why, since there are so many possibilities. We just work from there."
>
> Take care,
> CharlieCharlie, I know what you are talking about. I always feel bright and alert in the mornings and then the evenings start to get "wicked" when I am prone to be depressed. It's difficult to describe.. an existential "blackness", an apathy and simultaneously a feeling of dread. Just a thought here, but you take your Lamictal twice daily, once in the AM and then again at bedtime, right? From what I understand, Lamictal can be taken once daily (for epilepsy anyhow). If that is the case, then you could take your first dose in the AM, then take the 2nd dose say 8 hrs later in the early evening. Might make a difference. I also found Trileptal to alleviate that ickiness also.
Posted by Krissy P on April 5, 2003, at 23:22:27
In reply to Evening blues » wcfrench, posted by Ritch on April 3, 2003, at 22:23:58
Hi, your Vegas trip would have certainly entertained me and I would have been rooting for ya! Good for you for "making" such a great time!
However, I know how you feel here. I wish this was the Psychological Babble board because I want to ask you something about this>> "then things seem to get worse as the day draws to a close (or it gets dark, I can't figure out if it just has to do with the night time)"
The same thing happens to me. I remember that when I was little, I always hated the dark so bad, and I always slept with a night light on, and yep I admit it, I still do at 32 sometimes. lol
BUT, May I ask if you think there are some sort of feelings assocuated with your mood and why the sadness comes on at night time? Not suggesting anything, by any means, just really wondering like home life at night when you were young? Bedtime when you were young, anything? I ask because I was a "latch key" kid many, many afternoons when my parents first got divorced and even 19 years later, the AFTERNOONS at times, depress me. I feel good in the AM and
pretty ok at PM, but by my own thinking, I think my "depression in the afternoon" may have something to do with these feelings that I experienced years ago.
Anyway, this is just a thought, I truly believe in my point I'm trying to make here, (probably because I studied psychology-go figure)and it sounds like you have a great doc-that's great.
I would be happy to share what meds I'm on -just let me know:0)
All the best,
Kristen
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Drastic change of subject- I just got back from a week in Vegas. I was dancing in the street literally with the music loud, usually by myself, and provided much entertainment for those around me. I even set up a quarter bucket outside the hotel and tried to sing for money, but I only made $1.25 because most people knew it was a joke. Most days were great.. the pattern seems to be a great daytime (100mg Lamic, 100mg Zoloft) then things seem to get worse as the day draws to a close (or it gets dark, I can't figure out if it just has to do with the night time).. 100mg Lamic, .5mg Klonopin afternoon/night. I altered it slightly by adding 50mg Zoloft in the afternoon and .5 Klonopin in the morning to try and "balance out" what I took in the morning and at night, and it seemed to help. But I still feel better in the morning/day than I do at night. The fearful depression returns, and I can't figure out how to get rid of it. I might try some mid-day meditation. The book "Meditation as Medicine" has been working wonders for me, literally. Any suggestions or related experiences with the day/night cycle? Moon?? Who knows. Just wondering if someone has experienced this. As my first doc said when I was on a complicated cocktail, "if you tell me you feel a certain way, I believe you and don't question why, since there are so many possibilities. We just work from there."
Take care,
Charlie
Posted by wcfrench on April 7, 2003, at 0:43:54
In reply to For Charlie....., posted by Krissy P on April 5, 2003, at 23:22:27
Thanks Krissy
I don't know exactly where or what it stems from. It seemed to be different last month or the month before, I would feel a little better as the day went on and on, so I don't think it has to do with any past issues. I do remember, when I was in school, having very busy days and then cross country practice, and then coming home to "crash," so I would usually feel worse in the evenings. But I think that was mainly physical/mental reactions, and an overall pooped state of mind. Lately, this definitely seems to be medicine related. I can be depressed and definitely not depressed throughout different times in the day, and it follows this pattern. As Bipolar II, I am wondering if the Lamictal + Zoloft is a danger to triggering depression (as antidepressants sometimes do after using them for some time.) Before Lamictal, I took 1000mg daily of Depakote and was very stable, but had sort of a negative disposition about things (though pretty much completely stable), but the feelings I had, though very much tolerable, still prompted me to believe that possible Lamictal would be a better option for me for its antidepressing effects. The first weeks of the titration were great, but I noticed decreased effectiveness going from 50 to 100 daily, and not much change from 100 to 200. It seems that when I go for longer periods without it ('it' meaning my morning dose of Lam, Zoloft) that I hold out in a positive mood for a pretty good while. I could be on too much, or might need to decrease and add another mood stabilizer and maybe drop down the Zoloft since they can be dangerous for bipolars. I've heard good things about Trileptal (Tradazone's brother w/less side effects) so I may inquire about that. I'm holding, but not shining, and I will try anything before atypical antipsychotics because, though effective, I've been down that route and they are just too much for me. Strong and great if they work, terrible if they don't work right, and most doctors err on the side of caution about long-term use.
I am confident in the effects of mood stabilizers though, and before I didn't know any better. I worry about caffeine and klonopin because I think a caffeine high and low can cause some negative feelings, and perhaps taking more klonopin could cause it as well. I just need to ride it out. I'd love to hear your history of meds, successes and failures. It always helps to get another's perspective. Thank you so much for your concern.
Take care all,
Charlie
Posted by wcfrench on April 8, 2003, at 16:42:26
In reply to Re: For Charlie..... » Krissy P, posted by wcfrench on April 7, 2003, at 0:43:54
When I used to take Effexor, I got more depressed at higher dosages, I think due to Bipolar II qualities. I have been increasing Lamictal and it seems to be the same calming effect but also a slight bit of depression. DO you think the Zoloft should be decreased due to the anti-depressant effect of the Lamictal? I WANT TO BELIEVE. How are ya'll doing? Thanks for your advice.
Take care,
Charlie
Posted by Barbara Cat on April 17, 2003, at 11:29:23
In reply to Re: Mom, and my vacation » Barbara Cat, posted by wcfrench on April 3, 2003, at 0:13:19
Hi All,
Just got back from the second leg of Mom's death journey. This time it was hard WORK, schlepping furniture around, estate sale of her things (actually fun!), little sleep, walking out of our family home for the last time, saying goodbye forever to the places of my childhood. I was not on the euphoric high of the first trip which was due no doubt to endorphins saving my sanity from the shock. This was pure adrenaline pushing through it. My poor adrenals!So glad to be back home and so are our 8 kitties who missed us. Life has been on hold for months and now it's time to begin a new stage of life. I'm ready - I think.
Charlie, thanks for your words of comfort. I am SO GLAD I've been working with Power of Now during this time. I saw my sister-in-law go more nuts during it and recognized the spin caused by ego and time identification. It was very difficult not to get sucked into it and those times I was sucked in were the most difficult. I will get "Meditation as Medicine". I recommend "Breathwalk" by Khalsa as well. Dance on, bro'. Have you been to Burning Man?
Day/Night cycles: I seem to be opposite of you all in this regard. I feel a sense of dread shortly after waking and begin to feel much better as evening comes on. I love the cozy glow of lights. I get a burst of energy around 8:00pm. My circadian cycles are definitely screwed. When I'm depressed I feel better in cloudy gray weather than sunny chipper days. I come alive in storms and blustery weather.
There is a certain time in the afternoon that I feel the worst. Emily Dickenson wrote a poem about 'that certain slant of light' describing her own depressions and the late afternoon light. I noticed it very strongly while back on the East Coast recently. Perhaps it was triggering my less than happy childhood, but it was also an almost physical reaction to the different play of light and shadow that caused dread and claustrophobia. William Styron talks of this phenomenon as well.
I've heard that cortisol cycling can be the reason for these mood changes during the day. I'm taking melatonin to try regulating this weird sleep cycle but I've always been like this. Becoming a night shift worker is out. Too many weirdos going about their business. - Barbara
Posted by wcfrench on April 19, 2003, at 1:28:45
In reply to Mom, Vacation Part II (and day/night cycles), posted by Barbara Cat on April 17, 2003, at 11:29:23
I take 200mg around noon and it seems like later on at work (around 6 or 7) it starts to wear off. Not the high the Lamictal gives you, I don't experience that anymore, but just the effects. I start to feel "bipolar" again and become paranoid and sensitive. Does anyone else have to take it twice a day in as little as 6-7 hour increments to keep it going? The only other thing I take in the morning is Zoloft, and I think that wouldn't wear off during the day. Any suggestions? My nights are really struggling...
Thanks all,
Take care,
CharliePS welcome back BCat!
Posted by SpreadDaALoha on April 19, 2003, at 3:41:49
In reply to Re: Lamictal - how long does it last for you?, posted by wcfrench on April 19, 2003, at 1:28:45
I take 150mg Lamictal in morning and 150mg at night. I don't really notice any particular part of day when it works....
Posted by Ponder on April 19, 2003, at 12:25:23
In reply to Re: Lamictal - how long does it last for you?, posted by SpreadDaALoha on April 19, 2003, at 3:41:49
I take Lamictal 75mg in the morning and 75mg at night and do not notice much variation during the day. Well, actually, I have a lot of variation during the day, but never thought to attribute it to meds wearing off.
Question for you guys: seems most people have found Lamictal to be pretty good overall as an antidepressant. What do you think of it's stabilizing properties? My p-doc wants to add lithium. I have not had anything but trouble with lithium in the past, but he thinks it has synergy with Lamictal and wants to do another trial. I'm remembering the 45 bad drug pounds that I blessedly am no longer carrying, the awful tremor lithium gives me, etc. Arrgh. Anyway, isn't Lamictal a stabilizer? I'm already on Topa low dose (75 mg/day) for some synergy. Your thoughts?
Posted by Barbara Cat on April 19, 2003, at 12:54:54
In reply to Rate Lamictal as stabilizer, posted by Ponder on April 19, 2003, at 12:25:23
Hi Ponder,
I recommend lithium with lamictal because of my own experience. I've run out of lithium (on purpose I think) on a few occassions and started feeling scattered and irritable within 2 days, even while on lamictal. There does seem to be a synnergy with the two and I find I have to use less of each. I was on lithium without lamictal for awhile and was not getting good antidepressant response. Adding lamictal gave me a very nice burst of energy (at first) and helped with the depression. But I've learned that for me it doesn't work without lithium which tends to smooth things out.Of course, it's hard to say what's responsible for my overall improvement since I've had many different mixes of meds. The current one which seems to be successful is lamital 75mg, lithium 600mg, nortriptyline 75mg. The next test will be to decrease lamictal to see if I really need it since the nortriptyline made such a huge difference and along with lithium might be all I really need. We'll see.
I'm also taking thyroid since lithium can cause hypothyroidism. This is a very important and serious factor to consider. If you do go on lithium, INSIST that your thyroid levels are checked every few months. - Barbara
p.s. I had bad tremors, especially when starting nortriptyline. They went away in 2 months, thank God. I'm keeping weight down using a rebounder mini-trampoline and dancing (whether I feel like it or not!).
> Question for you guys: seems most people have found Lamictal to be pretty good overall as an antidepressant. What do you think of it's stabilizing properties? My p-doc wants to add lithium. I have not had anything but trouble with lithium in the past, but he thinks it has synergy with Lamictal and wants to do another trial. I'm remembering the 45 bad drug pounds that I blessedly am no longer carrying, the awful tremor lithium gives me, etc. Arrgh. Anyway, isn't Lamictal a stabilizer? I'm already on Topa low dose (75 mg/day) for some synergy. Your thoughts?
Posted by wcfrench on April 19, 2003, at 13:17:27
In reply to Rate Lamictal as stabilizer, posted by Ponder on April 19, 2003, at 12:25:23
It seems to be working OK for me as a stabilizer, but not as well as Depakote did. I feel a little brighter on it, but the overall effect doesn't seem as "stabilizing" as Depakote did, but I might still have to increase the dosage, or add another mood stabilizer to reach maximum effectiveness. I am moving to Las Vegas next week and my damn doctor won't get me an appointment and won't call in a higher dosage after I keep telling him I need to go up on the Lamictal. He thinks 250mg is in the "dangerous zone" and that 400mg is only for patients with epilepsy. Damnit Jim, I'm a doctor, not a pool man. Get with it dude, I took as much as 3600mg Neurontin, I'm a high responder. I feel good after 200mg for some time, but I need more.
I know it was only recently approved (a few years back?) as a mood stabilizer, as is the trend with a few other epilepsy medications. It wasn't designed specifically for that task though, so to say that you would need an adjunct such as Lithium or Depakote to achieve maximum effectiveness would make perfect sense. It definitely gives me an antidepressant response though, in comparison with Depakote. With Depakote, I was in a stable, though negative disposition. Maybe I should try Lithium as adjunctive therapy, but I don't want my pee to smell like salt again. :-D And the days go by...
Once I reached the state of "OKness" and not total despair, books have proven to be my greatest therapy, no holds barred. "Meditation as Medicine", "The Power of Now", "Present Moment Awareness", and currently, "Emotional Longevity" (a really good one) have all taught me so much, in so many different ways. Very highly recommended. Drugs can only get you so far, and my lofty aspirations lead me to one day being able to function without medication, though I won't be upset if it doesn't happen. If you can read and it doesn't bother you, do it. Amazon has lots of good recommendations in these categories, and the reviews are always pretty accurate. See you guys.
-Charlie
Posted by wcfrench on April 19, 2003, at 13:20:44
In reply to Re: Rate Lamictal as stabilizer » Ponder, posted by wcfrench on April 19, 2003, at 13:17:27
This is the correct link:
If that doesn't work, here is a direct one:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0670031852/drbobsvirte00-20
-Charlie
Posted by Barbara Cat on April 19, 2003, at 14:17:00
In reply to Re: Rate Lamictal as stabilizer » Ponder, posted by wcfrench on April 19, 2003, at 13:17:27
A very hearty second on the books Charlie recommends. I've read a few on his list and they've changed my life. One other thing, Charlie, you've answered why my pee smells so weird. I also pee like a racehorse (why like a racehorse, I wonder?) since taking lithium. - BCat
> Once I reached the state of "OKness" and not total despair, books have proven to be my greatest therapy, no holds barred. "Meditation as Medicine", "The Power of Now", "Present Moment Awareness", and currently, "Emotional Longevity" (a really good one) have all taught me so much, in so many different ways. Very highly recommended. Drugs can only get you so far, and my lofty aspirations lead me to one day being able to function without medication, though I won't be upset if it doesn't happen. If you can read and it doesn't bother you, do it. Amazon has lots of good recommendations in these categories, and the reviews are always pretty accurate. See you guys.
>
> -Charlie
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