Posted by alexandra_k on January 4, 2006, at 22:32:54
In reply to Re: Too afraid to get help » Larry Hoover, posted by Gabbix2 on January 4, 2006, at 21:19:58
Hey. I understand what you are saying and I agree.
But also...
I understand the feeling of frustration and I have sympathy.
And you can understand both at the same time and there is no contradiction in that...
> you can't know what is going through someone else's mind.
Indeed. And quite often... I don't know what is going through my own mind either. I don't know *why* I do some of the things I do. I don't know the reason I don't know my motivation I don't know...
Because... To a very large extent it is a matter of interpretation...
And it is not like you hit upon the fact of the matter by introspection...
It is that there are more or less helpful interpretations (ones that tend to help ones that tend to harm) though sometimes hitting upon a helpful interpretation can be hard...
> And this is something P.Docs go through all the time. It's not unusual for someone to resist treatment, and there are many reasons for it.
> It's part of the illness and sometimes it takes years.Yes.
I also think... That it is important for Deneb to know something about *why* other people do in fact feel frustrated in response to some of her posts. Because regardless of whether other people *have* to feel frustrated or whether they *choose* to feel frustrated; regardless of whether it is *rational* for them to feel frustrated or *irrational* for them to feel frustrated... The fact remains that sometimes people do feel frustrated in response to her posts.
And of course... That is not the end of the world. And people are surely frustrated with me at times and they can of course care about me a whole heap AT THE VERY SAME TIME as they feel frustrated with me (in fact people tend to feel frustrated because they do care)... But the point is that if Deneb wants helpful and / or sympathetic responses from people off the boards... Then people tend to not respond in that way when they feel frustrated.
That is a fact.
> I don't really believe help or offerings of advice should be given with expectations of obedience.
I agree with you there.
What can be hard...
Is when there is a course of action that is very likely to help...
But the person does not do that.
One can't make them...
But what else can one do to help?
It is like...
There is something just there that would probably help if only the person would do it...
Like how if someone is drowning and you can see the flotation device right next to them in the water...
And you say 'grab the flotation device'
And they don't...
They just keep talking about how they are drowning
And they won't grab the devicePeople are going to feel frustrated because they feel powerless...
It seems to them *there is nothing I can do*
And yet there is something that the person can do to help themself and yet they will not.In those cases...
Well...
DBT therapists have peer support for a reason...
But sometimes for ones own mental health
(And this can also be something that therapists find when they don't have adequate peer support)
They need to walk away.
Because...
Of their own mental health.
Other people don't have an infinite amount of energy...
But if the person can be seen to be making an honest effort to grab the flotation device...
Well...
That is all it takes to reenergise the cheerleaders on the sidelines.And if Deneb wants people to support her...
She needs to learn that she needs to care for her supporters
Because support takes effort
And effort is a limited capacity resource
And nobody has infinite patience...
Or energy...
> but none of us has gone through life without making decisions that frustrate other people.Absolutely. And in those cases... Well... Thats when one really needs to weigh up the pros and cons. About how much one is sacrificing oneself or somehting that one believes in for the sake of another persons preferences... That is a hard decision..
DO you think that applies here to Deneb?
(I know it applies in your past... But do you think it applies here?)
> It's a hard hard thing to go through. And sometimes we have to learn from our own mistakes.
Yes.
And that can be the hardest thing in the world to watch in other people...> I've also seen other people who go on and off there medications with regularity, and post about the ensuing upset, and for some reason they don't draw the same criticism as Deneb does.
Frequency?
The intense nature of the distress?
The point that the meds seemed to lead to a DRAMATIC improvement?I wonder why...
poster:alexandra_k
thread:595104
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20060102/msgs/595363.html