Posted by mikhail99 on January 10, 2003, at 11:50:06
In reply to Disillusioned, posted by Tabitha on January 10, 2003, at 7:56:51
> I don't know how to work out conflicts here. I tried with Alii, I used my "I feel" statements, I threw in some (sincere) praise along with the criticism. Maybe I could have worded it better. Looking back I think I could have, but it's a skill I'm learning. You can never be too gentle with people, I know that, yet I'm not gentle enough. I was just utterly stunned by the reply. The sarcastic subject line with my name in it was enough. My own words, my very "I feel" statement, twisted into a sarcastic quip. Can't think of anything worse. It didn't even get a PBC (another shocker, leading me to doubt my own perception of sarcasm). People say don't read posts if you have a problem with the person, a technique I use myself here, but subject lines are just there. THere's no choice about reading them.
You know Tabitha, you did just fine! I'm so angry that someone felt the need to tear your comments apart and analyze even though they're clearly not qualified to do so. I think it was easy to see that you were attempting to be sensitive and careful when you used "I feel" statements. That places the responsibility with you and no one else. There was no need for anyone to get sarcastic and nasty, I don't think you were trying to score any points with your posts and the debate over the use of touche just got out of hand. It's also too bad that the word "bitch" had to be thrown in. I think that the majority of us think long and hard about what we have to say and it isn't about being clever or witty, it's supposed to be about expressing yourself. I'm very disgusted that the postings had to degenerate into who could be the most clever.
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> All the comments about duels just made me sad. I couldn't tell how much was directed at me, but if anyone thinks I'm here to duel, believe it or not I'm actually here to connect with people. The best advice I've ever gotten on human relationships says if you have a problem with a person, the way to resolve it is to state it, with all the "I feel" stuff, etc. If that's going to be interpreted as picking a fight, then I just have to give up.
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> I'm not here to trade clever insults. I like cleverness, in the service of humor. Not mean-spirited humor. THere are so many comments on this board right now, in that thread, and the one to Beardedlady, that just strike me as being little insults, worded carefully so that they're barely under the radar of the civility cop. Maybe I'm misreading, but if so, then I can't function here. It's just too... can't even come up with a word. How about unsafe, that's pretty close.You are absolutely right about these posts just barely being civil. And when that happens, it's not too difficult to interpret intentions. I think the people responsible for the saracastic commentary were less concerned with the idea and intent of these boards and were more concerned with getting a direct hit.
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> Did Nikki actually call me a bitch? Honestly I couldn't tell if it was me or Alii, but either way it didn't help the situation.Honestly, I don't think anyone was calling you a bitch but the OVERuse of the word was NO help at all.
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> It seems every time a conflict comes up, it just divides the group, people take sides, or try to be careful not to take sides, and a bunch of insult-trading happens, and the unlucky impulsive ones get blocked, and the conflict doesn't get resolved, and the division lingers. I don't know how to manage that problem here, with this format. In group therapy it's hard enough, but at least it's possible. One of the keys there is that first of all the members are screened. You've all got the same goal, to learn to connect with each other. When conflict comes up, you're all trapped together talking it out til it's resolved. Of course you've got a professional there to help you with your wording. And if any one person causes too much conflict they are removed. Nobody is there to win the one-upmanship contest. And if they are, they'll have to talk about it til they give up their game.I think there's a very simple solution to monitoring this board and that is, if you wouldn't want it directed at you, you probably shouldn't say it. I think there is room here for honesty and disclosure but when one is too involved in the whole one-upmanship, then the intent of this board goes right down the toilet.
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> I think Dr Bob is on the right track, trying to keep the focus on support and education. That's a manageable goal. I probably wanted too much from this group, I wanted it to be more of a community, and I wanted to connect with people and develop relationships. (Those dang people, they just get tired of talking about side effects and want to socialize!) In retrospect, I can see the threads that work best are the purely light-hearted ones, and the purely supportive ones (i.e. person posts problem, everyone offers support, person feels better).That's a good point too, that the light hearted and supportive posts work best here. I don't think anyone is out to censor people and I know that some of us (myself included) have a hard time with knowing what's always socially acceptable but like I said earlier, if you wouldn't want to be at the receiving end of your comment, then keep it to yourself!
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> Yet I wanted more, I wanted to get to know people, get a picture of their personalities, and develop affection for them. Once you start doing that, then, conflicts happen, and, well, like I said, they just don't get worked out.
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> Beardedlady's departure hit me hard, too. I think I understand it better now. Everyone has their limits. For her, it's being seen as cruel. Maybe she'll get over that hurt and return, again. But I'm sad that going off alone and licking your wounds is the only option here. There really ought to be a better way.
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> I've been struggling with these feelings. I'd normally think OK, I'm hurt, I'll share my feelings with the group. I tried that one a while back, and got ridiculed for being too sensitive. The SPOW era. There's more stuff lately about thick skin, so I know that sharing my hurt will likely invite ridicule. It really leaves one in a box. Can't share hurt, can't share anger, can't call people on their crap.I hope your feelings will change about sharing your pain and hurt here. I always thought this was the place to do it. Of course, when we do, we open ourselves up to that "crap" you refer to. I guess the best we can do is look for certain names and avoid their posts. I know I'll be doing that in the future.
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> Disillusioned. Hurt. Tears. Yup, I'm in tears over my message board. That's me. SPOW. Angry, the impotent kind, there's nothing to do with it. What do I do? Throw the computer across the room? Send some angry email? Sadness. COnfusion. Doubting my perceptions, unable to get clarification, because it doesn't even feel safe to talk about it.
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> I learned one thing about relationships, and I learned it the hard way. If what you're doing doesn't work, and you keep thinking if only you try again, or try harder, it will work, well... it's time to stop. Even if you're hooked into hoping for change. Just stop.
Tabitha, I hope you won't be staying away from here. I've always appreciated everything you've had to say. I know that I've read some stuff on these boards from others and when I couldn't identify with it or if I thought it was out of left field, I decided that it would be best for everyone for me not to respond. Everyone here has that choice. If one feels they can't say something helpful or constructive or they don't understand then just don't respond! There are some very fragile folks here and we must respect that. (Tab, I hope you know that this diatribe of mine is not directed AT you but everyone) I would rather ban myself from the boards than think I would willfully hurt someone. If one feels they have to find a forum where they can be clever and witty at the expense of others, find another place to do it, this is not the place.'Nuf said.
Tabitha, take care of yourself. Check in with us from time to time!
Mik
poster:mikhail99
thread:34965
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030104/msgs/34977.html