Posted by Tamar on May 27, 2006, at 21:11:31
In reply to Multi thoughts - really long » Tamar, posted by Daisym on May 27, 2006, at 11:58:57
Hi Daisy,
Thanks so much for your response. It’s given me a lot to think about.
> >>>>I think all he can do is keep reassuring you over and over again that it really is all right. After three years in therapy, I still cry when I have to leave half the time, I get freaked out about long weekends and vacations and there are days when I'm sure he is planning my transfer. But if nothing else, I've learned to ask. We talk about my need for reassurance a lot. I apologize but it took me so long to just admit that asking for this reassurance and enduring the embarrassment was so much better than longing for it in silence.
I told my therapist once that I wanted lots of reassurance. He didn’t reply. I think I could ask for it if I thought there was any chance I might get some response from him (can you hear the bitterness?).
> >>>My therapist noted a long time ago that I'm going to know faster than he does if he is getting uncomfortable with something or avoiding it unconsciously, at least most of the time. I think one of the legacies of trauma is that ability to sense a shift in mood. We just know when things feel different. And, I'm saying this as gently as I can, you aren't the only person whose "stuff" he has to keep track of. So if you want to go back to something, you really need to make it OK for yourself to do this. All that said, I would HATE it if my therapist was late a lot. I worry already that I'm at the wrong time and day. You have my sympathy around that.
Oddly enough, the lateness thing doesn’t bother me much. My father and brother and husband are always late for everything. I’m kind of used to it. But you are absolutely right about the legacy of trauma and the sense of shifting mood. I always knew within a minute of my father arriving home whether I was safe to stay in or whether I had to go out to avoid getting punched. And again, I don’t really mind that my T has other clients. I don’t feel any sense of competition with them. I don’t expect my T to remember everything about me. I don’t mind reminding him of stuff. But I’d hoped that the anniversary of the rape might have stuck in his mind, especially when we’d talked about it the last two weeks. It was a really big deal for me, and all he needed to do was make a note of it in my file and read it a couple of minutes before the session. Too much to ask? (more bitterness)
> >>>>My therapist would ask you, "Are you trying to take care of me?" He calls me on this all the time. By taking responsibility for his emotions, you have some semblance of control and maybe you think you will know how to titrate what you are saying to him. What are you afraid will happen if you don't play nice? For me it is being abandoned, or worse, having him lose it and yell at me. Showing the dark side is really hard, especially for those of us who are more or less proud of our intellect and think emotional women get a bad reputation.
You are right. I do try to take care of him. Yeah, being abandoned or the object of anger is really scary for me. But there’s a very practical thing there too. In every other part of life, I’ve found that I’m more likely to get what I want if I play nice. So I figure if I want him to see things from my point of view it’s much more likely to happen if I’m gentle with him. And I know that this is especially true because I have a somewhat postmodern approach to theoretical stuff, whereas I suspect he is much more traditional. I strongly suspect my postmodern take on stuff is uncomfortable to him. But if I want to persuade him I’m right about some of it… well, I don’t think ignoring his feelings about it is likely to help.
> >>>>>So say that. Say it just like that. I can't tell you how many times I've said, "I know the boundaries are there for a reason. But it still hurts to bump into them." I also remind him often that just because I understand them doesn't mean I like them. And he tells me that I can hate them as much as I want or need to, as long as we both agree to respect them. And here is the other thing, he once told me that it is my job to push on the boundaries and his job to hold them. But holding them doesn't mean pointing them out. It is more about walking the talk instead of talking louder and louder. Once in a while he will still put stuff out in a concrete way, and I always respond, "I already KNOW that...it just hurts and it hurts more when it is in my face."
Yes! Absolutely! I don’t need him to remind me; I’m aware of his boundaries all the time. I actually do like them but my own boundaries are so strong that I don’t really need his. I know for a fact that if he begged me for a snuggle I’d ask him what he hoped to gain from it. I’d turn him down if he asked me for sex (it wouldn’t be easy!). I wouldn’t kiss him unless he’d stopped breathing. I have learned the hard way that I need my boundaries for my own protection. And that’s why I get so angry when I talk about what I want symbolically and he reacts as if I’m asking for something inappropriate. (bitter, bitter, bitter)
> >>>>Being emotionally held feels very good. But there is physical need for comfort and safety that is core to all mammals. It is an animal yearning. So it is important to find a way to get this need met so it isn't so big in sessions. I had a horrible time around the "no hugs" policy a few months back. My body image came into play -- you and I have talked about that. But what was really hard was that it was a very young part of me (hmmm, I originally typed him) that needed to connect and she didn't have the words. And we were working on old stuff and guilt about physical needs, so it was all very complicated.
Oh boy! Yeah, I remember you talked about feeling warded off and I cried my eyes out when I read it. I was actually a bit surprised that your therapist didn’t hug you. I had sort of assumed that if anyone would know how to handle hugging without it becoming a problem, your therapist would know. But on the other hand, I remember dreaming about my therapist kissing my breasts, and that it wasn’t a *sexual* dream at all, and how great that was, and of course I know that in real life if he kissed my breasts I would experience some kind of sexual response because my body is designed to respond to men. So I guess I understand the prohibition: no matter how innocent the idea of a hug might be, there’s often an adult physical response that’s automatic and unavoidable. Well, that’s just my view of the hugging thing…
> >>>>Another thing I still don't do well is allow myself to backup immediately when I get hurt or miffed. It is an automatic response to shield the real emotions and keep everything light and "OK" until I can sort it out in private. I think I do this because I don't trust that I'm having the "correct" reaction to whatever was said, or not said. And I know I'm really, really good at saying things in a matter-of-fact way, so they blend in with everything else. But I want him to be magic and know what is important to me and what isn't.
It’s comforting to know I’m not alone in that! The matter-of-fact thing is a kind of protection against becoming too involved, I think. And I’m sure it’s the same when my therapist gets all matter-of-fact with me. He only does it when he’s trying to back off from something, as far as I can tell.
> >>>>I hope you find someone to talk with about this. My faith is very important to me and I'm really lucky to have an older priest who isn't full of those orthodox answers. I think he has seen too much over the years to fall back on "Jesus saves" even though I know he believes it with his whole heart and soul. Having a relationship with your spiritual side is critical to healing. For a very long time I thought this part of me was sort of silly and I was embarrassed by it. But I've begun to see that it is another aspect of being whole and that my brain just doesn't have all the answers. Sometimes I have to just "be" -- and believe that there is path for me and a guide. I like having something to thank also for the good things in my life. And for those religious folks who don't believe in therapy, just in prayer, I sort of say, "then why did God give us the capacity to help each other at all?" As far as the sacrament of reconciliation, conversations can take place with God in your head. I think it is a given that he forgives for whatever you've done, but you have to forgive yourself too. I think you won't feel absolved until you do have some sort of a relationship to God. If you think about your own children, as much as you can get damn near hating them sometimes, that deep love and connection continues to exist. You would forgive them most anything, right? Allow yourself to be comforted from the ultimate parent, and the ultimate blank slate therapist. :)
I have a very bad relationship with God. I don’t want to talk to him and I don’t want him to talk to me. Yes, I agree about forgiving my children pretty much anything. But sometimes I think I need to forgive God as well, for not being perfect (warning: heretical ideas here!). I want God to acknowledge his part in the suffering in the world. It’s not enough to say we have free will. If God really is omnipotent then he can intervene in mundane things. And whenever he doesn’t I think he needs to come up with a better explanation than free will. I’m not saying he should always intervene, but I consider it moral evil whenever he doesn’t. So I guess I’m questioning God’s ethical perspective. I don’t think people should be damaged and destroyed just so that we can have free will. And retributive justice is clearly a non-starter. And when we ask God what on earth he’s thinking he comes out with a response like, “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?” Thanks, God. Very helpful. (Yep, definitely bitter. I identify with Job’s wife: “Curse God and die.”)
> >>>>>Indeed. So ask him. Ask for overt permission to need him.
What if he says no? What if he doesn’t respond? My greatest fear in therapy is that he’ll hurt me so much I will actually kill myself. I’m afraid to ask for permission to need him because if he doesn’t give it I don’t know what I’ll do… And I can’t tell him this because I know it will sound manipulative.
> You will be OK Tamar. You have a deep connection with your therapist that I think is strong and calls up so much intense need that it feels like a tidal wave you will both drown in. You won't. It isn't easy but keep going. I want you to think about how you felt when he shook your hand. You said you realized at that moment that he would have been OK hearing about how you really felt. Give him the gift of your honesty. It is so scary. And so worth it.
You are right. He gave himself to me in that moment. And yet now I feel he’s pulling away as much as possible. Maybe shaking hands again would be a solution. I don’t want him to take responsibility for me, and I don’t want to be responsible for him; I DO want to feel it’s a worthwhile relationship. And I really do want it to be therapy. I had to work very hard on that. I had to work hard to give up the fantasy of a real life friendship. It was one of the hardest things I’ve ever done. And now it seems as though he’s the one finding things hard.
> Sorry for the novel. In the mood to write today.
Please don’t apologise! I really appreciate it. Sorry my responses have sounded so desperate.
Many thanks for your thoughts.
Tamar
poster:Tamar
thread:648983
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20060526/msgs/649512.html