Posted by janejane on June 28, 2010, at 9:07:30
In reply to Re: Niacin/folic acid and depression » Lao Tzu, posted by janejane on June 28, 2010, at 7:21:42
Here are a few quotes regarding niacinamide, from Larry Hoover's old posts (note: ">" indicates another poster's query):
A slightly different form of B3 is niacinamide. It binds to the same receptor complex as do benzos, and has some anxiolytic activity. It binds at a different place on the receptor than do benzos, so it doesn't interfere with that activity. Most people find that niacinamide and benzos complement each other's effects. You can take up to 500 mg niacinamide, four times a day.
Both nicotinic acid and niacinamide can be converted to the molecule NADH. It is a key component of the cellular energy production in mitochondria. I have found that using an NADH supplement (Enada NADH) has substantially improved my level of functioning. The dose must be carefully adjusted, as too much can lead to irritability and insomnia.
(Jane's note: this is from a different thread:)
> Some say niacin should be more effective as niacinamide
More effective for what, exactly?
If you're referring back to the original subject you posted about, anxiety and its related disorders of Social Phobia and Personality Disorder?.....there is only one answer that is correct, and that is niacinamide.
Only the amide binds to the benzodiazepine receptor. Think about the arrogance or hubris or whatever it is that brought us to calling a natural receptor complex after a drug that coincidentally affected that receptor. Did we think God or Mother Nature put it there for our drug to use?
Niacinamide and magnesium both (and quite separately) increase the activity of the benzodiazepine receptor. Niacinamide also mildly agonizes the receptor (acts as an activator).
Niacin does other things entirely.
(Jane's note: Later, in the same thread...)
> Lar, how much niacinamide do you recommend? It seems that everything is pooping out for me, and I'm becoming very depressed and so anxious I don't even react when something happens. Fondly, Phillipa
Single dose, 100-500 mg. Maximum total dose, 2000 mg/day. Individual response varies widely.
Just make very sure you're using niacinamide, not one of the other forms of niacin.
(Jane's note: And later...)
> Thanks so much Larry. I think I'll try it. Years ago I remember taking niacin[don't remember why] and it made me red around the face and neck. I later learned that this side effect didn't occur with niacinamide. I don't even know what the niacin was supposed to be good for. I didn't take it long. Fondly, Phillipa
The niacin flush is histaminic activity in dermal tissue....it also occurs internally, to some extent.
Niacinamide actually has a diametrically opposite effect; it inhibits mast cell degranulation, which is the process of histamine release. Therefore, niacinamide makes a good augment for hayfever treatment, and asthma, too. It also encourages joint health, and may be useful in osteoarthritis.
(Jane's note: And later...)
> I would not say niacin does not have any effect on gaba receptors. All depends about the affinity or in some cases avidity (ligands to receptors) but also the dosage of every substance you take.
Niacinamide and NAD both have binding affinity for GABA(A) receptors. Both change the conformation of the receptor itself, making it more sensitive to GABA. Niacinamide is a (mild) partial agonist, and I believe NAD is, as well.
As niacinamide readily crosses the blood-brain barrier, it can serve acutely as an anxiolytic. Long-term use would likely lead to down-regulation. Best keep niacinamide as an acute treatment, rather than use it as a maintenance vitamin.
(Jane's note: A different thread:)
> Hi folks, I hope my query doesn't take this thread too far off-topic ...
>
> Q: Does anyone know of any scientific evidence indicating what is a safe level of niacinamide -- i.e., one that does not present a risk of liver toxicity? I have searched many websites but most of what I've found on the subject is along the lines of "I've heard that X amount is safe" with no citations and with widely varying ideas as to how much X amount is.
>
> Much obliged for whatever info anyone can provide.The issue of the safe use of a supplement is never off-topic, IMHO.
The hepatotoxic effects of high-dose niacin therapy (e.g. for high blood lipids) first emerged with sustained-release niacin. The sustained-release form was sometimes associated with liver problems at doses as low as 3 grams per day. Even those cases seemed to be presented in the literature as case reports, suggesting it was a somewhat uncommon phenomenon, but certainly worth watching for in all treated patients.
Now, one theory of the increased toxicity of the sustained release formulation is that a greater proportion of it gets shunted down the niacinamide pathway, compared to the conjugation pathway (which causes that yucky flushing feeling). That would seem to implicate niacinamide itself for the toxic reaction, yet I cannot find so much as a case report of a single instance of liver problems related to niacinamed intake.
One hypothesis holds that the liver stress is mediated by depletion of the universal methyl donor, S-adenosyl methionine (SAMe). If that is indeed the case, then ensuring intake of SAMe promoting supplements such as betaine (also known as trimethylglycine (TMG)), and B-12 with B-6, would be altogether preventative of toxic effects.
IMHO, anyone attempting to treat anxiety-related stress with niacinamide should commit to taking a B-complex with added B-12, in any case. Any time you supplement with a lone B-vitamin, you risk placing further stress on systems dependent on other B-vitamins. This may simply be an explicit example of such a consequence.
P.S. from Jane: In the above thread, I meant to type "complement" instead of "compliment." Hate it that we can't edit posts since I make a lot of mistakes. ;-)
poster:janejane
thread:952243
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20100516/msgs/952492.html