Posted by raybakes on November 8, 2004, at 3:16:07
In reply to Re: dopamine oxidation » raybakes, posted by Larry Hoover on November 7, 2004, at 11:07:11
> > I can only tell you what if feels like - I think high dose ascorbate would be fine with someone with normal health. I know if I take over 1 gramme of magensium ascorbate, I feel incredibly ill, mentally.
>
> Maybe that's the magnesium "talking"?Don't think so, feel great on magnesium malate/citrate.
>
> I looked at the toxicity of vitamin C, and two possible mechanisms come to mind. One involves iron toxicity, exacerbated by the activation by ascorbate. Those with hemochromatosis are particularly vulnerable to this effect....cytochrome c seems to be invoved in moppping up peroxynitrite interestingly..
The other mechanism involves enhanced excretion of uric acid. That might leave one vulnerable to peroxynitrite, as uric acid is an excellent peroxynitrite scavenger.
I definitely think peroxynitrite is a problem and uric acid is interesting....
> You're the expert on how things make you feel, Ray. All I can do is offer you knew thoughts to try on for size.Thanks for your thoughts and ideas but I don't want to make my self sound too badly off - I'm feeling pretty good these days, in fact the best I've felt for 10 - 20 years!
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> > So ascorbate could produce more ascorbyl radicals than glutathione could mop up before I started running low on NADPH. With NADPH running low, hydrogen ions build up in the cell, the pH drops, all enzymes fail, and I end up with millions more free radicals that I started with!
>
> I really doubt there's a pH mechanism at play. There are many many ways for cells to adjust pH. There are substantial buffer systems in place, just for that purpose. Do you understand the chemistry of buffer systems?I don't understand all the buffer systems but suspect the bicarbonate buffering to be underfunctioning. If I raise carbon dioxide by holding my breath, or drinking carbonated water, my brain becomes more clear. Might be something to do with the bohr effect too? Also I think it's common in autoimmune disease to have antibodies to carbonic anhydrase, vital for bicarbonate buffering and digestive function. Bicarbonate seems to have both positive and negative effects on peroxynitrite - some abstracts say it helps detoxify it, some say it hinders uric acid, ascorbate, GSH in it's detoxification.
Found this abstract on how carbonic anhydrase is invovled in helping produce the cerebrospinal fluid, and it thought to influence 'neuroexcitation'.'Carbonic anhydrase IV on brain capillary endothelial cells: a marker associated with the blood-brain barrier.'
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1495971&dopt=Abstract
Still think buffering is really important - especially as in fatigued cells, the mitochondria fail to get sufficient numbers of protons combining with oxygen to maintain an even pH.Ray
> Try a different source of ascorbate, would be my suggestion.
I've tried about 8 or 9 types of ascorbate - all work really well as long as I stay below a gramme.
>
poster:raybakes
thread:404137
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20041022/msgs/413152.html