Posted by Larry Hoover on October 29, 2004, at 8:27:09
In reply to Bowel toxins,enzyme peptide conversion of aminos?, posted by Jasmineneroli on October 27, 2004, at 1:15:52
> Hi all:
> Help! Very sceptical!I'm very glad you're taking that stance.
> An acquaintance of mine, who has bipolar disorder (mostly highly depressive, rare manic periods), recently visited me, claiming to be off all pharmaceuticals and feeling fabulous!. She did look good too!
> She attributes this massive improvement to being off her drugs and taking various herbal cocktails.Or, being very susceptible to the placebo effect.
> Does anyone here know anything about the validity of the theory behind the products she takes?I'll certainly be happy to express my opinion.
> A system of using herbs and botanicals to detoxify the body.
This whole detox concept is entirely without merit.
> Claiming that bowel toxemia causes inadequate absorption of food and toxins to build up in the body, including the brain, resulting in mental health disorders, amongst other things.
In simple terms, "bowel toxemia" can be invoked as an explanation for e.g. food poisoning. How are the toxic principles removed? Vomiting and diarrhea. There is absolutely no evidence for the need to detoxify the gut, absent the ingestion of a toxic agent, or infection by a pathological organism.
> Also using enzymes to "pre-digest" everything consumed, so that bowel toxins don't build up.
Ingestion of enzymes may in fact be a helpful practise, but that does not prove the theory. It is irrelevant to the concept of bowel toxins.
> The enzymes purportedly aid the peptide/polypeptide conversion of tyrosine, tryptophan, phenylaline and methonine.
??? I know you're just presenting the ideas you were given, but? Proteins are peptides. Polypeptide is an irrelevant term, meant to convey a greater scientific merit than is warranted. Peptides are digested via a very simple process, called hydrolysis (latin root, meaning cleavage by water). Hydrolysis is greatly enhanced by acid (stomach acid is hydrochloric acid, one of the most powerful there is). It is further enhanced by enzymes naturally present in the stomach. These natural processes (which Mother Nature has fine tuned for millions of years) may actually be helped a little bit by the consumption of plant enzymes. The point is to produce free amino acids, as much as is possible. They're not converted, in any sense of the word. They are liberated (thus the common use of the word "free"). An alternative is that the protein is digested.
> It is claimed that if this doesn't happen, these aminos turn toxic.....Tyrosine into Phenol, Tryptophan into Indole, Tyramine from Tyrosine (a putrefactive product), with other bacterial putrefaction on undigested amino acids.
Nothing could be further from the truth. Normal digestion produces free amino acids quite naturally (if that is what they're worried about), but....The only way these individual aminos could be metabolized to these specifiec toxins is if THEY ARE ALREADY FREE AMINO ACIDS. I would have used italics, but caps works.
Only free tyrosine (for example) can be converted to tyramine, because otherwise it cannot fit into the bacterial enzyme responsible for the conversion. To link that to putrefaction is absurd. The specific examples of toxins created from these aminos are also not chemically likely, given the time frame of food's presence in the gut, and the nature of the transformations themselves.
> The products are supposed to be "electrically formulated" and/or "electrically available" or have "electrical integrity".
Those terms have no scientific value whatsoever. They are meant to convey a sense of inferred superiority, but there is nothing special to the concept itself, let alone the lack of validity of the claim.
> Some of which make use of ion exchange etc. Such as, including hydrogen peroxide (which I understood to encourage Free-Radicals in the body, due to oxidative process?).
Ion exchange has nothing whatsoever to do with enzymes or those "electric" concepts. Hydrogen peroxide participates in redox reactions (reduction/oxidation). Because of its reactivity, hydrogen peroxide is unstable outside of water (aqueous hydrogen peroxide can only react with other water molecules, forming one new hydrogen peroxide molecule for every one destroyed). If it is actually in one or more of these supps, it would be destroying other active principles, neutralizing the activity of both.
> I'm assuming all this "electrical" talk means in part, electrolytes, and also electrons in cells. But the use of "electric" in all of her descriptions was pretty vague.
You're giving it more credence than it deserves. It is vague so that it seems plausible to the naive.
> It all sounded a bit like "quackery", but she really insisted how well and happy she was (and she had been EXTREMELY depressed, having made suicide attempts).
The fallacy of post hoc ergo propter hoc (after this, therefore, because of this) probably applies. She wants to believe, so it works. Temporarily. It may also be true that the supplements she's considering have hidden ingredients, such as ephedrine (from ma huang), and such like. There may well be active principles at work here, but the rationale she was provided is entirely hokum.
> Anyone have an opinion on the validity of such a system, in terms of the "science" involved??
> Any experience?
> Very curious.
> Thanks a bunch,
> JasI welcome further questions.
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:407758
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20041022/msgs/408697.html