Posted by thug life on October 8, 2004, at 10:39:12
In reply to Re: Geno....Let's Brainstorm...... » thug life, posted by pablo1 on October 7, 2004, at 11:25:17
> thug life,
>
> Thanks, this is interesting. I do differ in my understanding on a few points though.
>
> I've got ADD inattentive type and overfocused type (I think) but I really don't have problems focusing, mostly with being distracted and procrastinating or maybe the substance abuse is a bigger issue than I want to believe. I've had four docs give me various diagnosis that all included moderate ADHD to some extent & have been in & out of therapy most of my life. Like geno, I've tried being sober & my brain isn't happy that way either so I've always self medicated for 30 years, mostly pot & drinking, not super heavily but regularly. So I think that messed up my ability to appreciate the psych meds 'cause it gets confused between getting high and feeling therapeutic effects.
>
> For the record, I think geno is maybe pushing the stimulants too far but given his background of severe narcotic abuse, relatively speaking I think he's on the right track trying to be more methodical & logical about it working with a doc & will eventually settle down. I'm not in a position to criticise about abusing meds. But I do want to find a place where I'm not abusing and at peace. Enough for the disclaimers...
>
> I look at the meds mostly in their relative action on the three major neurotransmitters NE DA & SE. SSRI's mellowed me out & made the procrastination worse in a way plus when I came off, I got a DA rebound like crazy. NE reacts badly with me, causing sleep problems & one of my diagnosis is anxiety so I don't need any more of that. This makes ritalin & adderall not ideal for me. So I got myself some pure dopamine meds amisulpride & amineptine & while they haven't fixed my procrastination, they feel good, make me happy & more motivated and alive without feeling like I'm "on speed" usually (unless I drink a lot of coffee). Mostly they give me a real subtle euphoria and activate my reward/pleasure system more than stimulating the NE adrenaline stuff. They take the blah out & make me feel more like a happy normal person & more sociable. BTW pot does this too but gets me much more high & fuzzy headed. Alcohol relaxes me & I think the part that works on the GABA causes a euphoria/pleasure sociability similar to the dopamine meds but obviously gets me drunk too. But all these give me what I'm missing.
>
> So the way I see the stimulants is:
>
> Ritalin -more NE, more jittery
> Adderall -moderate balance
> Dexadrine -more DA, more smooth/euphoric/motivating
> Amisulpride -almost no jitters, smooth subtle pleasure
>
> Does this scale of relative effects make sense to others?I don't think Ritalin plays that much of an role in NE.It's actions are quite clear that of an Dopamine reuptake blocker.It doesnt significantly release the catecholamines noradrenaline and dopamine.I think what you are experincing is the action it has of being levo-methylphenidate.It works more on taxing the cns and with its periphial side effects makes it feel like epehdra or caffeine i.e.jitters,heart rate increase etc.
The Survector is a selective dopamine reuptake inhibitor.Which of course like The ssri's is more specific in what it goes after.I've heard a lot of good stuff about it but haven't tried it.I the USA we believe Survector should be illegal and not used but ALcohol is o.k.<sarcasm>
It's amazing to me that we know pretty much how amphetamines and things on dopamine will affect us.I believe it's because it's been studied since 1937 and has been studied the most.That's what worries me about SSRI'S.They really have no idea why sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.With all the with drwal syndromes,start up side effects,and side effects while on them...It worries me a bit of effects they will have over a period of time.It also baffles me that they aren't even scheduled.They are prescribed way too quickly and usually the patient is unaware of its effects.I often get into the debate of anabolic steriods vs Benzo's/SSri's.In New york steroids are a schedule 2 and everywhere else a schedule 3.I won't get into it because it is out of the realm of tis post but it all comes down to......money.
I think your assesment of the stimulants is pretty good.....They really only change when you start getting the xr's,LA'S,spansules,SR'S etc.But basically....
Ritalin-fasetst onset of action,hardest crash.Basically 1 step better than caffiene or ephedra.For me increased focus but on small tasks i.e.reading,made me feel focus on a individual level but on
a social level made me worse.Adderall-Will lose weight on this one,makes me ready to take on the world and get out of bed.For me this is a good social anxiety fighter.A big plus for it is that it comes in 30 mgs tabs.This is a drug that you will agree with or not.
Dexedrine-This is the best by far.If you want good social skills,good focus and attention this has it.Its funny how you will get involved in projects and spend so much time focused you stop,look around and realized you forgot about the real world lol.Get Dextrostat if you get it,it's not generic but most people think it is.
All in all I think the stimulant meds are safe,not as abusive as people would think,the PDR is way off and I think people will get little benefit if only using the max dosage according to that book.The other side is that...stimulants arent right for people.
poster:thug life
thread:396950
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20041007/msgs/400349.html