Psycho-Babble Medication | about biological treatments | Framed
This thread | Show all | Post follow-up | Start new thread | List of forums | Search | FAQ

Re: Hmmmm.... » Cam W.

Posted by Annie Z. on December 19, 2001, at 7:17:42

In reply to Hmmmm...., posted by Cam W. on December 16, 2001, at 1:38:02

>I have to wonder about a company who tests there product "after" they market it. That seems a little bass-ackwards from the way the science is supposed to be done. Where are the phase trials?

There are countless studies being conducted on prescription drugs and products after they have been marketed, also. Furthermore, many prescription drugs have not had phase trials done on them either; for example, all of the products that were on the market before the phase trials were required – aspirin, for instance. Also, I believe that generic drugs, which are not exactly the same as the original, do not have phase trials done on them.

As I am sure you are aware, the supplement companies do not do phase trials of their supplements, before or after they put them on the market, because of the hundreds of millions of dollars it takes to fund these trials. Supplement companies do look at the usually abundant existing evidence for the effectiveness and non-toxicity of their products, as well as the risks that these products may pose. That’s why many supplement companies offer some excellent products that greatly ease people’s pain and suffering, and that greatly extend and enhance peoples’ lives. However, there is no question that supplement companies product can also be ineffective, as well as harmful or deadly products to some.

Prescription drug company’s medications, also, offer excellent products that have eased and extended the lives of millions. However, prescription medication has also caused great harm and countless deaths in this country. Several years ago, the American Medical Association published in their Journal of the American Medical Association, a study, the largest and most complete of its kind, which shows that more than 2 million Americans become seriously ill every year because of toxic reactions to correctly prescribed medicines taken properly, and 106,000 die from those reactions. That surprisingly high number makes prescription drug side effects at least the sixth, and perhaps even the fourth, most common cause of death in this country.

Lastly, many doctors and health professionals offer advice and services which helpful and life saving -- or ineffective, harmful and deadly. Physician and health-care mistakes are one of the major causes of death in this country -- ranks up there with the most common causes of peoples’ death, also.

I see the supplement industry in the same way I see the rest of the health industry: it can be good or bad, effective or ineffective, dangerous or benign. I wholeheartedly believe that a health consumer should closely examine any health service or product he chooses. After all, you are (usually) the only one that will suffer or die, if you make the wrong choices.

>"Oh, it's only vitamins." Whew, that's a relief, for a minute there I thought it was a medication, silly me.

I, for one, never said, “It’s only vitamins.” As I mentioned above, I happen to believe that vitamins or supplements can be as benign or dangerous as any drug. I suggest that people do research on the supplement company and on the supplements’ ingredients, and talk to their doctor before using this product.

>I have heard so many stories about these guys, I am not sure what to believe, anymore. The wording of a lot of the sentences in their J Clin Psychiatry article, make them sound like they are hiding something (even more so than some the usual drug company party lines that must be waded through and dissected).

You don’t support your contention that “they are hiding something” at all. You give no examples. It’s just a feeling (prejudice) that you have with the limited knowledge of your subject.

> I would like to hear Stahl's take on this article; how'd it get past him? I don't get it?

I don’t know what are you talking about here.

>Also, did anyone else notice that the guy who wrote the editorial, supposedly being critical of the article, was thanked by the research group for his, "support and consultation".

Doesn’t sound suspicious to me at all. Just sounds like the research group is open minded. I would thank anyone for his or her “support and consultation” who offered legitimate, thoughtful criticism of me or my work. Afterall, dealing with critiicsm is a major way people may improve.

>Something that I am also curious about (but I usually am with any journal artical) is the time lag between first submission of the article to the journal, it's initial rejection, and finally it's acceptance. I would really like to know what was wrong with that first submission. Was it too many typos; was it unbackable statements; what?

You provide no evidence at all for any lag time. Where are your dates? Where are your sources? Also, shouldn’t you at least model the behavior of which you accuse others? Your whole post consists of unbackable statements, and yet you are complaining about unbackable statements that may or may not have been in the first draft of an article that was never published. You spelled the word “article” wrong in the above paragraph, and you who used the word there for their at least twice in your post, just to name a few of your writing errors; and then you complain about typos in an unpublished first draft for which there is no evidence of even existing!

Finally, even if you did have evidence of a lag time, you haven’t convinced me that a lag time means there is something wrong with the final quality of the article.

>I hope these guys (ie. Synergy) have deep pockets. The way that they are bringing there product out smells of lawsuit (the kind that professional, falling-off-a-trolley-experts bring against a company). If one person starts this vitamin, has a manic episode, and does harm to themselves (or others), what sort of defense does the company have? This scenario could be compounded by the person also stopping his/her meds for their bipolar disorder. If there is a waiver that needs to be signed to use this product, I would be extremely leery about signing it.

Well, I hope that the prescription drug companies have deep pockets, too, (and they do), because it happens all the time that someone switches psychiatric medication, has a manic episode, and does harm to himself or others.

For your infomation, a signed waiver is not required to use the product. Certainly, there are very real risks involved in using this product, as there are in using many drugs or supplements. This non-profit organization cautions you about the risks and tries to minimize them.. The organization gives you pamphlet of a lot of important information, which you should share with your doctor, before you take the product. Also, assistants from the organization call you every week to offer you support and to answer your questions. You may even call these assistants yourself at any time.

>--Cam (who has a very uneasy feeling about this whole thing, but has no proof to refute their claims, other than common sense, and a few observations).

I certainly agree with you that you have no proof to refute their claims. However, I don’t see common sense operating here. By writing a post like this that contains no evidence to support any of your contentions, you are just spewing unexamined propaganda. You are doing a large disservice to the readers of this thread. You are modeling a behavior that is very inappropriate of a health professional, and you are leading people away from a supplement that could potentially make the quality of their life a great deal better, using nothing but emotion, prejudice, and unproved assertions.

--Annie Z.




Post a new follow-up

Your message only Include above post

Notify the administrators

They will then review this post with the posting guidelines in mind.

To contact them about something other than this post, please use this form instead.


Start a new thread

Google www
Search options and examples
[amazon] for

This thread | Show all | Post follow-up | Start new thread | FAQ
Psycho-Babble Medication | Framed

poster:Annie Z. thread:86991