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Re: Hmmmm....herbal/vitamin chemical use Cam W.

Posted by jay on December 16, 2001, at 17:54:36

In reply to Hmmmm...., posted by Cam W. on December 16, 2001, at 1:38:02

> I have to wonder about a company who tests there product "after" they market it. That seems a little bass-ackwards from the way the science is supposed to be done. Where are the phase trials?
> "Oh, it's only vitamins." Whew, that's a relief, for a minute there I thought it was a medication, silly me.
> I have heard so many stories about these guys, I am not sure what to believe, anymore. The wording of a lot of the sentences in their J Clin Psychiatry article, make them sound like they are hiding something (even more so than some the usual drug company party lines that must be waded through and dissected).
> I would like to hear Stahl's take on this article; how'd it get past him? I don't get it?
> Also, did anyone else notice that the guy who wrote the editorial, supposedly being critical of the article, was thanked by the research group for his, "support and consultation".
> Something that I am also curious about (but I usually am with any journal artical) is the time lag between first submission of the article to the journal, it's initial rejection, and finally it's acceptance. I would really like to know what was wrong with that first submission. Was it too many typos; was it unbackable statements; what?
> I hope these guys (ie. Synergy) have deep pockets. The way that they are bringing there product out smells of lawsuit (the kind that professional, falling-off-a-trolley-experts bring against a company). If one person starts this vitamin, has a manic episode, and does harm to themselves (or others), what sort of defense does the company have? This scenario could be compounded by the person also stopping his/her meds for their bipolar disorder. If there is a waiver that needs to be signed to use this product, I would be extremely leery about signing it.
> - Cam (who has a very uneasy feeling about this whole thing, but has no proof to refute their claims, other than common sense, and a few observations).


I quite agree with you, and the 'science' surrounding vitamin/mineral and herbal supplements seems rather shaky. There is often talk of some of these therapies being successful in Europe, but many of the European studies have many holes in them, in particular replication of results. I am very suspicious when a company spends more money on marketing than it does on research.

I also don't quite understand the mechanisms of action these vitamin combos claim to work by. In fact, it's the lack of explanation that really makes me wonder. I do understand how a couple of supplements have been shown to possibly work well, one of them being the fatty-acid and fish oil supplements, and even in many of those studies, people where still on medications. For, they talk about people completely getting off all medications. Dangerous, indeed.

Also, I was reading through how they talk about their users feeling as the 'wean' on to this supplement. Very scary, actually, and again dangerous, as they mention that there is a long period of "adjustment...having raw feelings exposed..". They also suggest that medication "numbs" peoples feelings, and there is some kind of ultimate salvation in "unnumbing", which seems to make as much sense talking somebody with pneumonia, and throwing them into icy waters naked. (Or inadequately dressed.)

I would say there is not only a potential for exposure to unnecessary extreme pain, there is a massive risk of suicide.

Like many, I went the route of mega-dose vitamin and herbs for a year or so *without* medication, and yes I lived to tell about it. That period in my life dragged me down moreso than any other point in my life, and it hindered in me experimenting and finding the psych medications that have helped me get my life back together.

I think you are quite right when you suggest they have some good money ready for lawsuits. Maybe they should make friends with Thomas Szaz's lawyer!





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