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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 29. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by 10derheart on August 25, 2014, at 0:38:46
yikes. I have taken a semester off from college. It was supposed to be to gather myself, to get the rest of my life "together," to regroup, to prepare to go back...or something. I last attended in Dec 2013 (Took one online class this summer).
I...didn't really get a damn thing done in eight months. I spent tons of time with my granddaughter - that is/was great and important, that I know for sure. But others can balance and do that + work (unemployed) + do school + have friends (zero of those) + hobbies + so on. I know all that is too much, but...why?
I read a couple books. I did basically whatever I wanted. Wasted days, hours, weeks and months of time mindlessly watching TV and playing games. I am pretty disappointed in all that. The messes in my house haven't moved. I had a list of six things to accomplish and I did ONE of those :-( Subconsciously, and maybe even consciously since I'm saying it, I worry this sense of massive failure will undermine me going forward, too. (You squandered the past eight months, what makes you think you can handle all these classes?)
And school...I am about to take four classes which I have never done before. I never could. Three classes resulted in several mini-meltdowns each semester where I nearly quit or freaked out, crying, panicky, having to ask for extra time, rushing, turning in things late. I survived because of several extremely understanding teachers and I guess...some of my own will to persevere (a total gift from God), but it sucked doing it that way. Miserable, awful to fall behind and have all that anxiety. So, so want to avoid it this time, even with more work. Need schedule? More/less structure? I dunno.
What am I saying? Not sure yet. Thought maybe I'll write about it here kinda like Alex does and that could help (not sure how, never been a journaling person) but hey, can't hurt to try.
It's mainly ADD that sabotages me,and I would think that after handling it through meds and therapy for over 10 years I would anticipate things better and head them off...but...it sneaks up on me or I am too weak to do what needs done. sigh.
I feel scattered by all the choices I have which could maybe put more support in place....
-- use student counseling? (feel stupid and weird, I am the same age as their parents, except for the one PhD psychologist...I ought to be counseling them!)
--try an ADD coach?
--look for another therapist?
--see a pdoc for re-evaluation of meds?
--something else?
--all of the above (doubt it...cure worse than the problem)Choices are supposed to be so great, right? But sometimes I hate choices because for a brain like mine, they induce severe paralysis of will, which I often think sums up everything...the procrastinating, the over-thinking (topics for papers, etc.) the avoidance, the inaction I always call laziness (but others say I am not a lazy person...except for housework). Because it all results in this overall feeling of being stuck and desperate and doing nothing AT ALL feels sooooo good...until it doesn't. :-(
It doesn't help I'm not all that sure my degree is what I want or ought to be doing or that I can find work when done. Dreading needing to talk to professors about this but they are the experts and I must...but it's hard with poor image of myself (fat and ugly) and low self-confidence.
Well, that was uplifting the night before classes start.. lol.
Posted by gadchik on August 25, 2014, at 5:57:30
In reply to back to school tomorrow, posted by 10derheart on August 25, 2014, at 0:38:46
What an inspiration you are! Thanks for sharing that. I never could get thru college b/c of my anxiety issues. Go for it 10derheart! Im rooting for you! : )
Posted by ClearSkies on August 25, 2014, at 7:04:19
In reply to Re: back to school tomorrow » 10derheart, posted by gadchik on August 25, 2014, at 5:57:30
And I never got to college in the first place, except for some night school courses related to work.
We all progress in different ways, at our own pace. I find you incredibly brave. If you need help, seek it out. You seem to know where the resources are, so you are already prepared but for the doing.
You know you have our support. Please use US as your support, in addition to your excellent plans. We are behind you, proud of you!
ClearSkies
Posted by alexandra_k on August 25, 2014, at 14:50:06
In reply to back to school tomorrow, posted by 10derheart on August 25, 2014, at 0:38:46
Do you have disability services in the form of teaching and learning development services, or something like that? I'd say it would be worth making contact with them and seeing what (if any) assistance they may be able to offer you. Different places offer different things... Have different amounts of funding etc.
I've heard good things (generally) about people getting help with organization / scheduling. Assistance with breaking a big project down into simpler components to make manageable steps. Help with scheduling times to work on components. Accountability meetings to help with motivation.
It really does depend on a whole bunch of things I know nothing about... But my inclination would be to say to only take 2 courses and have the aim (and plan!) to meet all deadlines. The idea being for you to build confidence in your ability. Nobody likes that feeling of fighting a losing battle or swimming upstream against a heavy current all the time... Would be good to get some experience of succeeding... Some emotional reward for all the time and effort you are putting in. Would make the whole process more enjoyable. Might help you find your passion / what line you want to pursue... With having some of the pressure off...
You probably have a couple weeks to finalize enrollment...
I think gg was pretty good at this kind of stuff...
I didn't know you were in school / had been having a break from it.
Posted by Beckett on August 25, 2014, at 15:26:48
In reply to Re: back to school tomorrow, posted by alexandra_k on August 25, 2014, at 14:50:06
An ADD coach sounds appealing. Could be more interesting than the other items on the list. Pragmatic. No mucking about in therapy during the semester. Can you farm out some of your home chores to a professional organizer?
Posted by 10derheart on August 25, 2014, at 17:43:02
In reply to Re: back to school tomorrow » 10derheart, posted by gadchik on August 25, 2014, at 5:57:30
Thanks. Such a nice post :-)
It's hard to accept a compliment like that. I go to the negatives, the, "yeah-buts"....
...I'm mid-fifties, why am I just getting a degree now?
....I had over 20 years to get numerous degrees with on active duty, why didn't I do it then like almost all my peers? (five people I know of 15+ years younger than me and that worked for me back in the day have had their BS/BA and/or Master's for years...)
---inspiration? Who do I think I am and why do I need college credentials after all these years? Honestly, part of it is that school (as stressful as it can be for a perfectionist with anxiety) is easier than facing a job hunt, where I feel out of place and lost and completely self consciousAnd on and on. I want to accept your words, and CS's, too, and my intellect sorta does, but my heart (or nasty inner critic) says, "Nah, you suck."
You are kind to respond like that. I will imagine maybe I can inspire someone, somehow.
Posted by 10derheart on August 25, 2014, at 17:54:45
In reply to Re: back to school tomorrow, posted by ClearSkies on August 25, 2014, at 7:04:19
Aww...thanks. You are too nice.
College is not for everyone. I forget, though I think you posted about it before,....did you want to go badly but couldn't due to MH stuff? Or am I mixing you up with someone else?
I think college has always been for me, but about 12 years back I had what I now know was a minor panic attack working on my first assignment when I tried to take just one class...and the thing wasn't even due for weeks! I recall deciding I could never do it before I'd started! Sheesh. At least I did get a ADD dx after that, but the anxiety part was never addressed properly.
I do love it...the books, the information, the interaction, the atmosphere, etc. It's just that when having to buckle down and read and write on someone else's schedule, sometimes I just wind myself up and go off spinning like some blubbery, middle-aged blob of insecurity. Then later I think things like, "It's just a paper/quiz/worksheet..whatever, not life and death, 10der, in a few months it will be meaningless...get your priorities straight!" Maybe that concept will sink in this semester.
I do know where the resources are, yet, the doing is always the wall I cannot climb alone. I live it all out in my head, imagining conversations, practicing phone calls, etc., then chickening out. I'm so very sick of that part of myself.
Thanks so much for replying. I mean to reply to you and never get focused enough...grrrrr.
Posted by 10derheart on August 25, 2014, at 17:56:58
In reply to Re: back to school tomorrow, posted by alexandra_k on August 25, 2014, at 14:50:06
Thanks for all that. I haven't forgotten you (impossible!) but you raised so many points (and good ones, too) I want to explain, I have to put your reply off till tomorrow to give a proper response.
:-)
Posted by 10derheart on August 25, 2014, at 18:12:21
In reply to Re: back to school tomorrow, posted by Beckett on August 25, 2014, at 15:26:48
> An ADD coach sounds appealing. Could be more interesting than the other items on the list.
I totally agree. On websites I've seen online they are rather pricey, but on the upside many will do phone, email, Skype, or in person (if local) or a combo of those. Usually they have adult ADD themselves and have 'been there, done that.' I have some money put aside that I could use and it may be an invaluable investment. I've read all the books...for years, but I think sometimes that human contact makes things click and makes you accountable.
>>No mucking about in therapy during the semester.
True. I stopped therapy about nine months ago after always having a t. for 11 years...and I've been mostly just fine. But the ADD issues seem to be popping out all over lately.
>>Can you farm out some of your home chores to a professional organizer?
I dunno. I'm the type who would clean my house *first* if I hired one of those prof maid services. Lol. Mortified to have people see my shortcomings with keeping house, and I am so not exaggerating. I am clean (i.e., sanitary - health department is not going to cite me or anything...well, except for one or two issues) but incredibly messy and cluttery. How do you all do it? My brain rebels violently. Cleaning chores are overwhelming and I've tried every form of lists, schedules, and reminders. It's so boring and tedious and demanding and the worst thing...almost the minute you clean something....you have to......Do.It Again. Arggggh! Where is the satisfaction and moving on with that? Bah humbug on housework.
People don't relate much since peers have beautiful, clean houses (really, I've visited) and say they don't care if mine is mostly a wreck, but I don't believe it...we women are supposed to be able to do this. I'm a grandmother, for goodness sake, when am I going to learn?? Lazy and crazy.
I like your no-nonsense writing style. I am long-winded....ya' think? ;-)
Posted by Phillipa on August 25, 2014, at 18:41:17
In reply to Re: back to school tomorrow » Beckett, posted by 10derheart on August 25, 2014, at 18:12:21
The most boring thing I know of is cleaning. Avoid at all costs. I did my share when raising kids, priorities change. If you could do anything right now what would it be? Phillipa
Posted by ClearSkies on August 25, 2014, at 19:45:35
In reply to Re: back to school tomorrow » ClearSkies, posted by 10derheart on August 25, 2014, at 17:54:45
> Aww...thanks. You are too nice.
>
> College is not for everyone. I forget, though I think you posted about it before,....did you want to go badly but couldn't due to MH stuff? Or am I mixing you up with someone else?
>
> I think college has always been for me, but about 12 years back I had what I now know was a minor panic attack working on my first assignment when I tried to take just one class...and the thing wasn't even due for weeks! I recall deciding I could never do it before I'd started! Sheesh. At least I did get a ADD dx after that, but the anxiety part was never addressed properly.
>
> I do love it...the books, the information, the interaction, the atmosphere, etc. It's just that when having to buckle down and read and write on someone else's schedule, sometimes I just wind myself up and go off spinning like some blubbery, middle-aged blob of insecurity. Then later I think things like, "It's just a paper/quiz/worksheet..whatever, not life and death, 10der, in a few months it will be meaningless...get your priorities straight!" Maybe that concept will sink in this semester.
>
> I do know where the resources are, yet, the doing is always the wall I cannot climb alone. I live it all out in my head, imagining conversations, practicing phone calls, etc., then chickening out. I'm so very sick of that part of myself.
>
> Thanks so much for replying. I mean to reply to you and never get focused enough...grrrrr.
>
>I missed out on the college/university experience when I was young because of my parents' divorce - poor timing. After that, it was a money concern, then self esteem. By now I consider myself to have attended the School Of Life, and am OK with that. I am fairly well read, I write coherently most of the time, can do enough math to have run a small business for a few years.
Now I am focused on the life experience. Lots of courses and programmes having to do with metaphysical subjects, which have been unfamiliar to me. Not having the support at home for these endeavours, I've been pretty quiet about them. I started to spend more time doing my own thing and it really helped my sense of self.Wow, that was a TMI if ever I saw one. Sorry!
Posted by baseball55 on August 25, 2014, at 20:49:30
In reply to back to school tomorrow, posted by 10derheart on August 25, 2014, at 0:38:46
One thing you should definitely do is get some help with study skills. Most colleges have some kind of academic support service that will offer help with study skills. The reason I recommend this is that the best way to avoid getting overwhelmed is to keep up on things a little every day. And to do so using effective skills, like taking notes on reading, drilling with a partner, etc.
Posted by 10derheart on August 25, 2014, at 21:46:16
In reply to Re: back to school tomorrow » 10derheart, posted by baseball55 on August 25, 2014, at 20:49:30
I know those things are available. I don't think that's ever been the problem, though. I have a 3.78 GPA and will finish my BA December of 2015, God willing.
My notes are okay and I usually get As on most tests. It's papers and group work in class that freaks me out. The ultimate (grade) outcome isn't really what worries me. I just dread the hell I go through agonizing over making papers perfect, being unable to organize thoughts, giving up over and over again, the tears...it's embarrassing writing about it :-( At this level of classes, there is much group work and it all depends on the day. Sometimes I can grit my teeth and tolerate it, but other times I have actually faked illness or lied about having appointments to leave class when we were broken into groups.
I don't handle the social aspects of a group well. I'd rather work alone. I LOVE people, but suddenly being thrust together with strangers and told to outline something and present it to the class in 45 minutes is agonizingly socially awkward and frustrating. I either go utterly silent or I blurt out ideas or suggestions it seems are stupid and unwanted even though they seem reasonable to me. (I can tell as people ignore me and keep talking to each other) The talking in front of the class part when we are done is okay...I am desensitized by having given so many briefings and trainings to groups in my 20+ years in the USAF. It's the before that stuff...the dynamics of spontaneously doing group work and producing some coherent poster with bullet points, etc., is excruciating for me for so many reasons. I've lived through it, but luckily no one noticed or cared I wasn't contributing much until the end abd was so uncomfortable I felt ill.
I know you are right about a little bit daily. It's just that that is like asking me to climb Mt. Everest, or win an Olympic gold medal. Forcing myself (how?) to read or whatever if I feel tired, bored, unmotivated, etc. feels impossible. So, as so many of we ADDers do, I will procrastinate till the last minute, then get things done with propulsion coming from the adrenaline rush from panic (while hating the feeling and wanting to run away) almost no sleep and mini-emotional breakdowns. Usually. Sometimes, this ends up creating more problems than feeling horrid. No margin for error so I must I throw myself on the mercy of the teacher. Lucked out so far with late work reductions balanced out by A+ on a test, etc.
TMI. This is so hard to explain. It probably sounds like a spoiled, whiny brat who can't accept doing the dull, difficult parts of the work to get to the ultimate goal of the degree, and hopefully a new career/job. But its' not just not wanting to, it's not knowing how to force concentration and interest and ANY sustained effort beyond 10 - 15 minutes at a time each day, on a schedule. (Work 15 mins then screw off and relax as a reward for 2-3 hours feels normal for me, even tho it's illogical) For me, the hours of sustained work others do is so ridiculous it's almost funny. (in the sense of how, how, how do they DO that?) Yet I know that's what most everyone does. ANd I know...with a good GPA obviously I must have overcome it before.
None of this probably makes any sense.
Thanks for trying to help, baseball. I am not trying to be difficult or reject all sensible advice. It's just at my age I've tried and failed at most strategies until I am skeptical of them all. Yet I do not want to and won't give up.
It's the hellish process I fear. Maybe the ADD coach is something to pursue ASAP.
Posted by 10derheart on August 25, 2014, at 21:50:39
In reply to Re: back to school tomorrow » 10derheart, posted by Phillipa on August 25, 2014, at 18:41:17
Not sure what you mean, exactly...
Watching baseball games for hours, binge-watching TV series, playing with my granddaughter, sleeping, eating anything I want even though I'm disgustingly overweight, surfing the Web, singing at church....lots of stuff...
Do you mean am I passionate about something that could be a potential job at this point in life?
Posted by SLS on August 26, 2014, at 8:05:01
In reply to back to school tomorrow, posted by 10derheart on August 25, 2014, at 0:38:46
I admire you greatly for your deciding to go back to school. I think you are determined enough to overcome your challenges. I hope that some sort of behavioral remediation helps. My doctor treats a great many people with ADHD. He considers Straterra to be a disappointment. I know at least one person for whom it worked wonders, but I don't think attentional deficits were his prominent symptoms. He had a great deal of problems with organization and mood. In any event, you might want to take a look at Focalin (dexmethylphenidate) should you become frustrated with other strategies to improve your academic performance.
I'm afraid that school is not in my future. If I were to ever attain sufficient improvement to be capable of returning to school, I would also be capable of returning to work. At 50+, I can't justify deferring establishing some semblance of financial security. Almost none of my college credits are transferable. They are simply too old. A BS would still take me four years to achieve. No way.
Good luck to you.
- Scott
Posted by Beckett on August 26, 2014, at 19:30:20
In reply to back to school tomorrow, posted by 10derheart on August 25, 2014, at 0:38:46
Hey, how was the first day?
Posted by Phillipa on August 26, 2014, at 20:14:35
In reply to Re: back to school tomorrow » Phillipa, posted by 10derheart on August 25, 2014, at 21:50:39
Yes that is what I did mean. Since you are enrolled already and just took time off you must be passionate about completing your courses, graduating and obtaining a job if you want to work. Phillipa
Posted by 10derheart on August 29, 2014, at 2:07:52
In reply to back to school tomorrow, posted by 10derheart on August 25, 2014, at 0:38:46
...stuff going on....physically, so not typing too much for another day or so...it should resolve soon...be back over weekend for sure...
#notdisappearingIpromise
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 30, 2014, at 12:34:10
In reply to tired and have some..., posted by 10derheart on August 29, 2014, at 2:07:52
> #notdisappearingIpromise
#lookingforwardtoyouhavinganeasiertimetypingagain
Posted by ClearSkies on August 30, 2014, at 16:58:01
In reply to Re: tired and have some..., posted by Dr. Bob on August 30, 2014, at 12:34:10
Like.
Posted by 10derheart on August 30, 2014, at 18:12:32
In reply to Re: tired and have some..., posted by Dr. Bob on August 30, 2014, at 12:34:10
Posted by Phillipa on August 30, 2014, at 20:51:48
In reply to Re: tired and have some..., posted by Dr. Bob on August 30, 2014, at 12:34:10
Cute!!!!
Posted by 10derheart on August 31, 2014, at 11:59:01
In reply to Re: back to school tomorrow, posted by alexandra_k on August 25, 2014, at 14:50:06
> Do you have disability services in the form of teaching and learning development services, or something like that?
Oh yes. All colleges have this. Interestingly enough, ours has just started providing specific testing and evaluation for ADD this semester...for those who may have been dx a long time ago (me) or never obtained/lost the documentation needed to show for accomodation. I may do this if they can fit me in (my schedule os pretty tight) just because I was *never* tested, but rather dx by prescription in 2002...after a couple conversations with pdoc and/or social worker (methylphenidate + Prozac worked well to reduce systems - she prob does have ADD). CUrious asto how the proper tests will come out...although being on Strattera for over 10 years...hmm...would have to ask how to approach...pretend what answers would be when I was not medicated? Have to see what their testing entails since there are different ways...
Anyway, though, the only accommodations they give, as far as I have ever read about or heard from others is testing in another, quiet room (don't need that) use of headphones in same room (don't need) during tests, and extra time (rarely an issue) I can't imagine anything they offer that would help my paralysis at home, freaking out internally, socailly anxiety in groups, perfectionism and massive disorganization when trying to plan reading, writing, etc. I dunno. It won't hurt to see them.
> I've heard good things (generally) about people getting help with organization / scheduling. Assistance with breaking a big project down into simpler components to make manageable steps. Help with scheduling times to work on components. Accountability meetings to help with motivation.
That would be great. Not sure anyone at my school goes that far..but I might be able to ask. That is typical ADD coach stuff for sure. I do do those things myself...then plan falls apart cuz I play computer games to relieve stress or watch TV, sleep...make up reasons to avoid things...
> But my inclination would be to say to only take 2 courses and have the aim (and plan!) to meet all deadlines.Yeah, that sounds ideal. Because I use my veterans' benefits to attend school, there are certain requirements...the main one being that I have 36 months total and once those are exhausted I would have to find other funding...and unless I go half time or more, my allowance I get (to live on as the idea is many can't/don't work or work little while doing school) which in generous and a great blessing is reduced or eliminated. I have 9 months of benefits left after Dec of tis year...and I must take at least 3 classes to keep the allowance...
Others things...I am 55 years old. Terrified and pessimistic about anyone employing me anyway...but I can't afford to take years more to finish and move onto..something. After this semester, if I make it thru, I only need 4 more class for my B.A. Also, weirdly maybe, I have found the less I demand of myself, the less I seem to do. It's like this summer with one class...I often wrote stuff at the last minute and even submitted a few things a day late...for no reason than procrastination..."oh, only one class, easy, I can do it later..." With four classes ther is zero margin for all that messing around b/c I see things spiraling down so fast...so more seems actually better..didn't you write something like this once?
(Rushing cuz PC is going to automatically shut down....)
Well, um, be back later. I have more to say to you! But this damn machine has a mind of its own...
Posted by alexandra_k on August 31, 2014, at 19:17:45
In reply to Re: back to school tomorrow » alexandra_k, posted by 10derheart on August 31, 2014, at 11:59:01
ADD is one of those things that I really don't know very much about. I did know someone in the US who had it pretty severely, though. She really wasn't capable of driving when her medication pooped out (2x per day as it did just before she was due for another dose / due to sleep). She simply couldn't focus on the road. That was when I understood that she simply couldn't control her attentional focus at times. I mean... She surely wasn't trying to kill the both of us by not focusing on the cars on the road...
And she was a good student... Picked up a bunch of scholarships for school... She's doing law now at a top institution in fact. When I met her we were both doing a course in cognitive neuroscience and so I got to study with her a bit... She used to have one of those alarm clocks with proper bells and a solid ring to it. And she would set it for 20 minute bursts. She'd also set it for things like... As a reminder to let the dog in in 5 minutes, or to check the pot on the stove in 2 minutes...
To start with I was fairly dubious about studying for 20 minutes then having a break for 20 minutes... But it really seemed to work quite well. The idea being... That with practice... You get better at both getting into something... And switching tracks... The alarm clock was crucial. And we'd watch tv or play computer games or make food or whatever for the time in between... It actually worked quite well...
Her mother was a High School teacher. So... I think she got a LOT of support when she was young... Got taught a lot of the strategies by her mother researching various things to help her... Rather than school accommodations, I mean. I'm having a bit of a job with school accommodations, too. I don't think I need the 'standard' ones. A separate exam room. More time for exams. None of those seem particularly useful / relevant. They have been a good source of... Understanding.. For me, though. Something like that. And I feel like things are fairly precarious with me sometimes (most especially with respect to labs) and it is important to me to have something set in place so I can say when I'm about at the end of my rope before I get there...
I guess you don't know what your school might have available untill you ask... They might have graduate students who have study tips or something... Supports like that. I think that the 20 minute burst thing was really ingenious for bypassing the whole procrastination / perfectionism thing. It is a strategy I started using for writing my thesis... The idea of 6 focused 20 minute bursts per day... That that was a decent days worth of work... Honestly... People write books and theses that way... If you have an hour to study... 20 minutes work... 20 minutes reward... 20 minutes faffing about to set up etc etc...
That being said... That is partly why I wanted to bail on philosophy... I didn't enjoy the stress of writing... And I felt all perfectionistic and agitated about it, too. Horrible horrible feeling. There probably are strategies I could have tried to get through that, to have made it easier. Supports would have helped. I do regret not asking for help... I thought it was just me... Suffered in silence and felt awful ashamed of it... More supports now than there used to be. Graduate students have writing groups where they meet for an hour in order to get out -- 20 minutes worth of work.
I hear you on the logistics of needing to stay full time. That is often the way. Sounds like you ARE doing great, though. Just very stressful... As it is. Honestly. I'm on break now... But fairly stressed about everything I've got to do... Anyway... Hang in there...
Posted by Beckett on August 31, 2014, at 22:52:21
In reply to Re: back to school tomorrow, posted by alexandra_k on August 31, 2014, at 19:17:45
My child has ADHD (and dyslexia). He's almost old enough for a coach of some sort.
Keep hanging in there 10derHeart. Methinks ADD'ers are intuitive/creative. Play to your strengths.
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