![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by 64bowtie on December 4, 2004, at 1:11:00
I'm not asking for "positive strokes" or "warm fuzzies". I suppose I have assumed that I was posting and sharing appropriately. Now, after a year of Babble, I'm not so sure.
My total "dog 'n' pony" show is based on my experience getting well several years ago. I maintain that wellness is out there because I found it. If I can do it anyone can. I am sad, however, when I remember how long and hard the process was. How full of twists and turns and dead-ends it was. I ask, "why did it take me so d*mn long?"
It doesn't have to take long, it just did. This encourages me to fine tune the language of wellness, to make it more understandable. With the right language I can coach and encourage others to take a few simple steps to find themselves embracing wellness, and much sooner than I did.
Is Babble a good forum to slate wellness? Or, should I go away with such a message? I must warn all that I have found freedom and happiness. I have found (social) emancipation from my childhood tendancies, allowing me to pursue goodness, truth, and beauty without intimidation and coercion. There is much more. I'm not certain I'm in the right place saying the right things.
Any and all input is graciously welcome.
Rod
Posted by Cass on December 4, 2004, at 1:59:39
In reply to Am I foolin' myself by being here?, posted by 64bowtie on December 4, 2004, at 1:11:00
I guess I'm not ready to tell you what you should do, but I'm curious how you found wellness. Sorry if I missed something important that you wrote. I know you've posted about 12 step programs. Is that what you're referring to?
Posted by Dinah on December 4, 2004, at 10:11:42
In reply to Am I foolin' myself by being here?, posted by 64bowtie on December 4, 2004, at 1:11:00
Rod, I know we got off to a bad start, but I've come to appreciate you as a person. And I've learned to read your posts through the filter of knowing you. I'd hate to see you go.
Maybe a teensy tiny experiment? I sometimes feel like we're getting Rod the coach, not Rod the person. As opposed to gg, say, who sometimes gives us the benefit of the *experience* of being on the other side of the couch, but who never gets on the other side of the couch with *us*. In other words, if we're wondering what a therapist might be thinking or why they might do something, and she has some insight, she might graciously share that with us. And we really really appreciate that. But she *never* tries to be a shrink with us. It's a wonderful ability she has to separate the two.
Maybe you could ask for some pointers from her for that. Because I think the only time you run into problems is when you bring coaching Rod to the board without asking if the poster would like to be coached. I'm sure you don't mean to do it, you're just excited about what has worked for you and for others and you want to share.
But if you have any familiarity with the newly converted, you might recognize that that rarely works, and in fact often backfires. :)
So my proposed experiment is that you leave coach Rod behind for a month, and come here as person Rod. Even if you think people need some attitude adjustment, refrain from giving it unless you first ask and get an ok. Or maybe for the first week or two don't even ask.
Let us get to know you responding to us and initiating conversations with the purely social Rod, who I'm sure everyone will accept and enjoy.
Then in a month, you can see what results the experiment yielded and go from there.
I KNOW you have plenty to offer us besides your coaching skills. Share those things with us?
Just MHO. Ok, I lie. My opinion is only rarely humble. :D
Posted by partlycloudy on December 4, 2004, at 12:21:13
In reply to Re: Am I foolin' myself by being here? » 64bowtie, posted by Dinah on December 4, 2004, at 10:11:42
Rod, I agree with Dinah that this would be a great approach so we get to know you better as a person.
And she has a great way with words :)
Posted by Shortelise on December 4, 2004, at 13:10:08
In reply to Am I foolin' myself by being here?, posted by 64bowtie on December 4, 2004, at 1:11:00
First of all, one ought never lose openess to insight, so I suppose you are here to stay in touch with that, as well as to share your own wisdom.I have not been here long - and I feel so much better than I did six years ago. But I still continue to learn, continue to ask myself questions.
In fact, I can't much answer your question from the point of view of someone who has read your responses for the past year, who knows how you use your understanding of things here.
It's important - to me - for there to be a varied population here. People at different places in their self-knowledge and understanding.
For that reason, I hope you'll stick around.
ShortE
Posted by 64bowtie on December 4, 2004, at 13:17:21
In reply to Re: Am I foolin' myself by being here?, posted by partlycloudy on December 4, 2004, at 12:21:13
Since you left your parents in-the-dust emotionally five to six weeks ago, I hear graciousness in your every post. May sound confusing but I heard it happen. I can't point to the critical post, but trust me, it happened.
Perhaps it was the post where you were "torched and scarred" by your Dad saying that he never wanted to see you or hear from you ever again, so you ignored his indecency and went over there anyway. You took care of what ever they needed, and started ordering them around as they needed to be.
I'm just not certain that one was it. I guess from that post onward, I hear a new graciousness in your posts. Very delightful and welcome graciousness, toooo....
Now, regarding the gift you have given me. Thank you, thank you, thank you, for your very gracious encouragement. See! You ARE worth my (distant) love and caring!!!
I ask for this compromise: In any NEW THREAD, I can be Rod the Warrior-Coach, or I can be Rod the human speaking from his heart. Otherwise, When responding to anyone's post, MY THREAD or NOT, I remain Rod, the guy with lotsa heart. Deal? May sound poly-schizoid of me.... but who among us isn't?
Rod
PS: ...progress not perfection....
Posted by 64bowtie on December 4, 2004, at 13:23:55
In reply to Re: Am I foolin' myself by being here? » 64bowtie, posted by Shortelise on December 4, 2004, at 13:10:08
> For that reason, I hope you'll stick around.
>
> ShortE
><<< ...thank you dear person! With clarity and graciousness like that, how can I leave? I crave kindness! I am finding kindness, graciousness, and much more here.....!
Rod
Posted by Tabitha on December 4, 2004, at 13:25:35
In reply to Am I foolin' myself by being here?, posted by 64bowtie on December 4, 2004, at 1:11:00
Hi Rod, I do appreciate that you want to talk about wellness and things you did that helped you. It helps to balance things out. If I read a whole board full of problems, I can start to feel hopeless. But I pretty much agree with Dinah. Going into coaching mode with people isn't always appreciated. A lot of times posters are just wanting support for their current feelings and struggles, and it can lead to hurt feelings on both sides when you offer the unsolicited coaching stuff.
Also, I pretty much believe each person's healing and growth is unique. What works for one may not work for another, or it may work at some time in life but not another. Sometimes I get the idea you are telling people that they need to use the same ideas you did, and they need to do it right now. I get uncomfortable with that.
Rod you said you are frustrated with yourself that you didn't get better sooner. I feel that way myself-- every time I experience some growth, my first reaction is to kick myself for not getting there sooner. You know something? That's not helpful. It's just some useless self-criticism. I should be patting myself on the back for getting to a new place, not kicking myself for not getting there sooner.
The reason I brought it up was I was wondering if you might be taking out some of your frustration with yourself for not "getting it" sooner by trying to push other people to "get it" before they're ready. Do you think that could be happening?
Anyway, I've seen you modify your style here before, and I admire that you're looking at yourself again and asking for feedback. That takes a lot of guts.
Posted by 64bowtie on December 4, 2004, at 13:40:12
In reply to Re: Am I foolin' myself by being here? » 64bowtie, posted by Cass on December 4, 2004, at 1:59:39
Cass,
<<< Thanx for the encouragement....!
> I guess I'm not ready to tell you what you should do,
><<< My hope is you never fall into the trap of advice giving that I did when I first arrived. (See many posts from Nov 23 2003, on the psychology board by DrRod)
> ...but I'm curious how you found wellness. Sorry if I missed something important that you wrote. I know you've posted about 12 step programs. Is that what you're referring to?
><<< ...yes, and much more! Still took ions to trek through some pretty simple stuff.
Rod
Posted by Dinah on December 4, 2004, at 15:13:08
In reply to (((Dinah))), I have a gift for you, dear person..., posted by 64bowtie on December 4, 2004, at 13:17:21
of my proposed experiment. From what I've seen, your new threads are rarely taken wrong, right?
I've been thinking about your words to me. They bring up a lot of feelings that I don't want to hijack your thread with. After due consideration, I think Psychological Babble might be the best place for it, because it has to do with what I've learned in therapy as well as my relationship with my therapist. I'll give you complete freedom to respond as either Rod. And I'll do my best to understand what you're really saying in your reply, and I hope you'll do your best to understand what I'm saying in my post. Because often I think we may be more or less in agreement, but we use such different languages that it might be difficult to grasp that.
By the way, I'll assume that you meant even MORE graciousness rather than graciousness where previously graciousness was lacking. :)
I must run now, but I'll post later on Psychological and link this thread.
Look for me there?
Posted by Gabbix2 on December 4, 2004, at 16:20:16
In reply to Am I foolin' myself by being here?, posted by 64bowtie on December 4, 2004, at 1:11:00
> I'm not asking for "positive strokes" or "warm fuzzies". I suppose I have assumed that I was posting and sharing appropriately. Now, after a year of Babble, I'm not so sure.
>I think, Rod, that it's not a good idea to set oneself up as a role model, it's up for others to choose who they look up to, and whose path they wish to follow. I agree with what Tabitha said, in that everyone's path to wellness is different, and I add to that often people's idea of what wellness is will differ too.
If this were a board where people wanted to quit smoking, and you had "kicked the habit" it would be more clear cut.
I think you mean well, and you are excited to share what works for you as Dinah said, but in your excitement to share what you feel is important, it's equally important not to use someone's post as a stepping stone for your personal philosophies now matter how well meant, if that happened to me more than once or twice I'd be angered, or mildly annoyed.
This may looks petty, and perhaps it's just a matter of not being able to hear your voice, but I've noticed comments like this from you before, and have been put off by them:>> Is Babble a good forum to slate wellness? Or, should I go away with such a message? I must warn all that I have found freedom and happiness.
When you say you must *warn* people that you've found freedom and happiness it sounds to me as if you're assuming that the people here would rather stay unhappy, and that anyone who doesn't follow you're route is as you would say "a grumbling complainer"
You've acknowledged that your timing needs work, and I think that's still an issue. If someone feels they have had spiritual enlightenment and interrupts someone's conversation at a book club to start talking about it, it probably would appear rude, and maybe a bit strange, however the same experience offered among friends, or at personal growth seminar would come across completely differently. It's crucial because it can change your message entirely.
Posted by Susan47 on December 4, 2004, at 22:01:21
In reply to Am I foolin' myself by being here?, posted by 64bowtie on December 4, 2004, at 1:11:00
Rod,
Your story is a good one and we all need to hear what you have to say. Whether we like it or not, and I know we don't, always. But why is it wrong to say what you have to offer, and share that, just because we don't always understand it? Your voice is a good one, albeit sometimes difficult for me to understand, sometimes even impossible. But I want your voice here. Without your voice, Babble would lose some of its character. Honestly. You make me think, and that's important for everybody. Like it or not.
Posted by Susan47 on December 4, 2004, at 22:04:05
In reply to Re: Am I foolin' myself by being here? » 64bowtie, posted by Dinah on December 4, 2004, at 10:11:42
And that's my lecture.
BTW, when you post your solutions put yourself back in the before-and-during-therapy you then s-l-o-w-l-y walk yourself forwards as you think, then write from your heart, not your head, 'cause your head has absolutely no trouble being there first. Lovey :)
Perfect Person Susan47 HEEHEEHEEHEEheheheheheeeeeeee
Posted by gardenergirl on December 4, 2004, at 23:14:55
In reply to Re: Am I foolin' myself by being here? » 64bowtie, posted by Dinah on December 4, 2004, at 10:11:42
Rod,
I really liked Dinah's suggestion, and I think it cut to the heart of what I have said in the past, although so much better. I think your compromise sounds like a good one, although I didn't quite follow it. If I understand correctly, you are going to try it for any new thread. But your next statement about posts whether it's your thread or not seems to contradict that.I'm not in my full brain right now, so I must have missed something. Would you please 'splain?
(or sum up if we haven't the time ;)And I would hate to see your voice leave. Or the rest of you for that mattter. One of the things I appreciate about Babble is the diversity. I kinda wish there were more.
gg
Posted by 64bowtie on December 5, 2004, at 2:19:23
In reply to Re: Am I foolin' myself by being here?, posted by gardenergirl on December 4, 2004, at 23:14:55
GG,
<<< GG, thank you so much for your open-handed collaberations here at Babble.
> If I understand correctly, you are going to try it for any new thread. But your next statement about posts whether it's your thread or not seems to contradict that.
><<< I hope this is clear... I intend to have two heads when my posts are a new thread. When I am responding to someone else, my graciousness-pursuit dictates I must speak from my heart, and muzzle that warrior I am toooo often; and have been in the past here at Babble.
> I'm not in my full brain right now, so I must have missed something. Would you please 'splain?
> (or sum up if we haven't the time ;)
><<< You in half-brain are more clear than I am with two brains........lol
> And I would hate to see your voice leave. Or the rest of you for that mattter. One of the things I appreciate about Babble is the diversity. I kinda wish there were more.
>
> gg<<< I don't want to leave, either. You are here, and you play nicely, so I want to see where we are going, having fun along the way. If some are permanently irritated with me, I worried that I might be more irritating than helpful. I am rethinking my impressions on that issue.
As I get busier, sometimes I pander to that little efficiency-expert symbiat-being the aliens implanted in me, demanding that I prioritize every aspect of my life, including my participation here at Babble, and on a daily basis. I am looking for a surgeon to excize that little rascal once and for all..........lol! ...or I could change my mind
...or I could just relax and enjoy.....y'alls!
Rod
Posted by gardenergirl on December 5, 2004, at 3:01:44
In reply to Re: Re: Thanks much gusto » gardenergirl, posted by 64bowtie on December 5, 2004, at 2:19:23
> As I get busier, sometimes I pander to that little efficiency-expert symbiat-being the aliens implanted in me, demanding that I prioritize every aspect of my life, including my participation here at Babble, and on a daily basis. I am looking for a surgeon to excize that little rascal once and for all..........lol! ...or I could change my mind
Oh lordy, does this make you another Stargate fan?
gg
Posted by 64bowtie on December 5, 2004, at 5:16:23
In reply to Re: Re: Thanks much gusto » 64bowtie, posted by gardenergirl on December 5, 2004, at 3:01:44
GG,
> Oh lordy, does this make you another Stargate fan?
><<< I'm probably really just stuck between two worlds by way of entering a stargate unprepared for travel. If only I'd remembered my toothbrush.....lol
Rod
Posted by 64bowtie on December 5, 2004, at 5:36:53
In reply to Am I foolin' myself by being here?, posted by 64bowtie on December 4, 2004, at 1:11:00
> (((Dinah))),
> I KNOW you have plenty to offer us besides your coaching skills. Share those things with us?
>Just MHO. Ok, I lie. My opinion is only rarely humble. :D<<< Are you saying you would like to hear more about my vast knowledge of carburetors…..lol? I get the message, you humble person you….. I can be Rod the guy more, and Rod the Warrior-Coach less……….
> partlycloudy,
> Rod, I agree with Dinah that this would be a great approach so we get to know you better as a person.
<<< I’m workin’ on that. Let’s work on that together….> ShortE
> For that reason, I hope you'll stick around.
<<< …like velcro
> Tabitha
> Hi Rod, I do appreciate that you want to talk about wellness and things you did that helped you. It helps to balance things out. If I read a whole board full of problems, I can start to feel hopeless. But I pretty much agree with Dinah. Going into coaching mode with people isn't always appreciated. A lot of times posters are just wanting support for their current feelings and struggles, and it can lead to hurt feelings on both sides when you offer the unsolicited coaching stuff. >
<<< I’m working on doing better at this one…
> Also, I pretty much believe each person's healing and growth is unique. What works for one may not work for another, or it may work at some time in life but not another. Sometimes I get the idea you are telling people that they need to use the same ideas you did, and they need to do it right now. I get uncomfortable with that.>
<<< Seems reasonable that your impressions that I am demanding or requiring anybody to do anything would leave you uncomfortable. I never intend to be that anal. That said, your concerns alert me to the fact that I need to talk about myself more, and anybody else less.
> Rod you said you are frustrated with yourself that you didn't get better sooner. I feel that way myself-- every time I experience some growth, my first reaction is to kick myself for not getting there sooner. You know something? That's not helpful. It's just some useless self-criticism. I should be patting myself on the back for getting to a new place, not kicking myself for not getting there sooner. >
<<< Yes… I should be patting myself on my back instead of torturing and tormenting myself over past failures. Thanks for the reminder…
> The reason I brought it up was I was wondering if you might be taking out some of your frustration with yourself for not "getting it" sooner by trying to push other people to "get it" before they're ready. Do you think that could be happening? >
<<< What is “ready”? My knowledge os salesmanship is that a saleman is most effective when he focusses on convincing customers that, “It’s OK to buy that product today.” …and, “ Today is a good day to acquire that product!” ...to convince customers that really are "ready" to acquire the product. Seems salesmen accept denial-and-indecision much more widely than the mental health industry. They make it their business to overcome denial-and-indecision as a matter of course in their sales carreers. Customers who can’t decide to buy today won’t help the salesman’s paycheck. So they roll up their sleeves and go right to the point. They overcome customer indecision. Some indecision is healthy. Gives us time to assemble the information we think we require. …and some sales techniques are ruthless and suck!
1. I throw some stuff out looking for more info
2. I also might have seen a poster’s concern before
3. Sometimes I’m just curious…so I am not maliscious when I make observations and suggestions. Perhaps now I have learned a more appropriate way to post at Babble because of this thread. Perhaps…
> Anyway, I've seen you modify your style here before, and I admire that you're looking at yourself again and asking for feedback. That takes a lot of guts. >
<<< Thank you, thank you, thank you!
…So my 25 feet of intestines ARE actually useful to me after all…. Hmmmmm………lol<<< I may joke but I am grateful for your post!
> Cass
> ...but I'm curious how you found wellness. Sorry if I missed something important that you wrote. I know you've posted about 12 step programs. Is that what you're referring to?
><<< Please look for a more complete post about wellness... coming soon...
> Dinah
> of my proposed experiment. From what I've seen, your new-threads are rarely taken wrong, right? >
<<< I suppose I sense so many of the social imperatives don’t necessarilly apply to new threads. However, I am still instigating discussion……. Mostly.
> I've been thinking about your words to me. They bring up a lot of feelings that I don't want to hijack your thread with. After due consideration, I think Psychological Babble might be the best place for it, because it has to do with what I've learned in therapy as well as my relationship with my therapist. I'll give you complete freedom to respond as either Rod. >
<<< Sounds good to me... I am post a whole thingy to you... (on psych board)
> And I'll do my best to understand what you're really saying in your reply, and I hope you'll do your best to understand what I'm saying in my post. Because often I think we may be more or less in agreement, but we use such different languages that it might be difficult to grasp that. >
<<< I speak and think in English, even when I am dancing in Bulgarian or Swedish…lol No-but-seriously, I will continue to upgrade and adapt…. Because I can….
> By the way, I'll assume that you meant even MORE graciousness rather than graciousness where previously graciousness was lacking. :) >
<<< “new graciousness” was an implicate statement that you may have become more gracious than your previous graciousness… I’m just glad to know ya’, sweetie… no matter what!
> Gabbix2
<<< I find a need to give your post a better response. It’s coming next here at social.
> Susan47
> Your story is a good one and we all need to hear what you have to say. Whether we like it or not, and I know we don't, always. But why is it wrong to say what you have to offer, and share that, just because we don't always understand it? Your voice is a good one, albeit sometimes difficult for me to understand, sometimes even impossible. But I want your voice here. Without your voice, Babble would lose some of its character. Honestly. You make me think, and that's important for everybody. Like it or not. >
<<< I’ll be here unless the Universe conspires against us all….
<<< To all, thanks so much for your patience and under standing...
Rod
Posted by 64bowtie on December 5, 2004, at 5:38:20
In reply to Am I foolin' myself by being here?, posted by 64bowtie on December 4, 2004, at 1:11:00
...and burn for the night...
Rod
Posted by sunny10 on December 5, 2004, at 14:45:03
In reply to Sorry Gabbi and Dinah, I gotta crash, posted by 64bowtie on December 5, 2004, at 5:38:20
okay, so as usual I am late to the party...
Rod, I thinks it's CRUCIAL that you remain who you are.
We all have a different "voice' to add to the bunch. It's imperative for anyone who has a vested interest in getting well to be able to "hear" everyone else's point of view REGARDLESS of whether they agree with the post now, next week, next year, next decade OR NEVER.
We will by nature either hear you, ignore you, or demand (perhaps even tearfully) that you explain yourself in a more caring manner. And, frankly, you give us that right which we NEED to exercise more frequently than we do sometimes.
Please do not censor yourself. You take away a point of view that might otherwise be missed if you do.
I know I would miss it.
-sunny10
Posted by Dinah on December 6, 2004, at 19:45:03
In reply to Sorry Gabbi and Dinah, I gotta crash, posted by 64bowtie on December 5, 2004, at 5:38:20
I wasn't fussing about the content of your message. It's a very real concern of mine, and I'd be happy to hear your reaction in any form you care to give it. I wasn't trying to set you up or anything. :)
Posted by pegasus on December 6, 2004, at 23:52:12
In reply to Am I foolin' myself by being here?, posted by 64bowtie on December 4, 2004, at 1:11:00
Hi Rod,
I'm jumping in a bit late here, but I wanted to agree with others that I'd hate to see you go. I haven't always agreed with your philosophy, but I think it's interesting to discuss. I think the plan you and Dinah have come up with is great. I wish you much luck and a long future at babble.
And . . . as usual, I just can't let a couple of things that you said go without comment. First, I disagree that if you overcame your difficulties, anyone can. Your particular problems might be entirely different than someone elses. Or their handicaps might be entirely different than yours. Things like schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, OCD, severe depression and any number of other mental health issues are not possible to overcome by the methods you advocate, in my opinion. Saying that they are sounds to me like trivializing and invalidating the experience of those folks.
Also, I don't think that I would want a salesperson overcoming my resistance to a particular approach when it comes to my mental health. Sales people may be good at convincing people, but I don't think they always convince people in directions that are truly helpful. We've all been suckered by sales gimmicks or sales pitches into buying things that we don't really want or need when it comes down to it. IMO it's not helpful to use that approach to convince people to take a particular path in addressing their mental health.
So, I would suggest that you might want to rethink your sales person analogy a bit. Maybe that attitude is contributing to why your ideas are not always well taken.
pegasus
Posted by just plain jane on December 7, 2004, at 4:13:11
In reply to Thanks All...., posted by 64bowtie on December 5, 2004, at 5:36:53
I asked before, just briefly and on the end of another post, if you were being professorial.
That is how you come across to me, often.
One of the things I've heard and read, which is a generalization, of course, is that men tend to get to a place and want to stay there. This was particularly about relationships, but applies here also.
The point was that, while women generally continue to wonder, worry, try different stuff, want to talk about the relationship more, men generally get into a relationship and once it resembles their notion of stable, that's where they remain. Hence the reason many men feel like the "rug was pulled out from under them" when their wife, who has been trying to talk about things for years, has only gotten, "hey, what's to talk about? We're alright," tells him she wants out of the stagnant pond.
This concept may apply here. You talk about having made a journey years ago to wellness.
And then what? If you have been hanging on to that outlook, that perspective, all these years, and not continuing in self examination, growth, exploring divergent thought; if you have found "the way" and have "the answers", I wonder if you have done the same thing as the earlier example. Gotten past certain issues in your life and then settled in at that place, believing you have the keys now, the answers.
You refer to being anal, black and white at one time, other things I have picked up in your posts that indicate a rigidity. Which comes through often as you believing you have all the knowledge, all the answers. You know the way.
I post, not adversarial, nor believing I am right, but simply a view. I had a teen ask me what I (as a teen) had wanted to be when I was all grown up... I told her "dead". Until then I shall remain in the process of active growth. The "answers" will continue to come, and need to be modified as circumstances change. And even then, those answers I find are only for myself, for that situation, at that time, and may change at any time due to additional input.
By the way, are all your drawers perfectly organized? ;0
just plain jane
This is the end of the thread.
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