![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by headachequeen on November 17, 2004, at 5:07:49
In reply to Re: Topamax and depression » headachequeen, posted by stresser on November 16, 2004, at 8:55:27
> I am really impressed with your parenting skills. Your are the parent I have always wanted to be, but didn't know how. I feel ecredibly guilty, so much so that it's creating a new depression. I know that I don't hug my children enough, and because of it they aren't affectionate people. I was never showed much affection as a child, and should have known better, but I guess I didn't. Some things are hard to change, and some people are hard to change. What I would give to do it all over again.....I think of Bridgey with her little one's and envy her because she hasn't had much of a chance to screw up yet. You will have to excuse my pity party today. It's raining outside....and that seems to put me in a ratty mood. The bottome of the pit seems really deep today, and I don't have a clue as to why. Tomorrow could be a total turn around, who knows. Wierd huh? We will keep plugging away on the medication as always. Keep going everyone! -L
My parenting skills so-called were learned from mistakes and from the lack of parenting I received... my mother was Aberdeen granite and did not believe in displays of emotion... I never received a hug or any demonstration of affection in my entire childhood or teens ...
but I had this grandfather... oh what a treasure...
he was not a hugging person but he was a loving person and I spent a lot of time with my grandparents...and a hug is not always a 'hug' ...
a touch that is gentle and loving.. brushing the hair back from the eyes... a pat on the arm...
a quick arm around the shoulders...
any contact that is gentle, loving, and physical...
and meant to convey the message that you care...parenting is a learn as you go process and we tried to fix our mistakes as we went... we learned to say I'm sorry, I was wrong, can we start again
a lot..one time we had a girl who hated getting out of bed... when she slept she escaped...
so one Sunday rather than make her get up and go to church with the rest of us, she always went with me in the evening anyway and I don't think the hour of the day really matters, we tied her door with toilet paper ribbons and bows and made her a gift of the morning..
She was so happy when she got up...
well once she got past the irritation of the gift-wrapped bedroom door... she didn't see it the way the rest of us did at first.. and it lasted all day..
a first for her..
she had a lot to get past...
her mom used to trade her for rent money from the time she was eleven...
she tried to kill herself a couple of times by overdosing on her mother's valium. The third time they brought her here right from the psych ward at her local hospital...
I was terrified that she would try again; we had never had a child under our roof who had tried to kill herself so immediately...
I was afraid to go to sleep or to turn my back on her for even a second... eventually I relaxed and she relaxed..
she used to mark the bottles in the liquor cabinet.. all three or four of them, and the first thing she would do when she came home from school was check the marks she had put on them...
she was not quite thirteen and had lived through so much I had never imagined...
The agency decided to send her home when she was fifteen...
I couldn't believe it...
how could they do that to her after all that had happened to her...
three months later, her sixteenth birthday, when they can no longer exert control if she chooses to leave, there was a knock on the door and there she was, wondering if she could stay for a few days...
how long? oh, till I finish college...
She is now legally ours... and an incredibly gifted and understanding social worker dealing with add and adhd children as well as a new program she has developed for teens in trouble with the law...
her agency lends her all over the country to teach others how to implement her programme for add and adhd...
and everytime she calls to tell me where she is winging off to next I am in absolute awe that this wondrous creature was able to survive the incredible abuse and torture she endured...my dear L, your parenting skills are not at all in question... you are working from love and care and concern....
you feel that they are not up to par because your daughter is going through one of the teen crises that is so agonising and you feel as all parents do that it must be your fault..
after all, mothers are supposed to be able to fix it all with a kiss...
well, it ain't so.. that is another of the television script-writers' myths...
mothers are not super-creatures...
they are human and doing the best they can to work with the available resources to make life easier for the children they love...
that is what parenting skills really are...
love and using the available resources...
a little resilience is helpful too....the people like my darling Susie's mother, for lack of a better term, are the ones without parenting skills... she didn't even want any...
her child was a useful commodity...
that is lack of parenting skills... lack of caring, lack of love, total self-absorption...you don't even come close to having poor parenting skills...
oh, ma chere amie, you aren't even on the richter scale....
sorry if I burst your balloon because you are a darned caring and dedicated mom... it is in every post you write about your daughter...
every single word....kat who has met some of the worst
Posted by headachequeen on November 17, 2004, at 5:07:49
In reply to Re: Topamax and depression » stresser, posted by rainy on November 16, 2004, at 9:39:18
>
> It doesn't seem fair that parenting is so hard and that our kids go in ways that we don't want them to despite all our love and and care.
Amen to that...
our children come into this world to the fanfare of hopes and dreams that we have for them...
but no matter how much love and care and hope and no matter how much time and perfection we give them they are their own people and have to fight their own demons..
we can only be there for them and love and welcome them when they are ready to accept that love and welcome again should they not want the dreams and hopes we have...THey find their own demons just as we did...
that is part of living and learning...
some are from within and some from without...and we have to accept that we cannot protect them from everything...
no matter how much we want to ...
and that is the hardest thing to accept I think...there is a beautiful modern hymn, Borning Cry...
it says
I was there when you were but a child with a Faith to suit you well
In a blaze of light you wandered off to find where demons dwell...
When you learned the wonder of the Word I was there to cheer you on...and on it goes....
it describes the love and devotion of the greater parent, but it also patterns the love and dedication of our parenting...
and the path we follow and try to protect our children from..
heaven knows if He can't keep the child from demons, how can we????so we are there with love and shelter and comfort when the child is ready to trust us and turn to us...
you know, when I decided I wanted to be a parent, no one told me there would times like that...either that or I forgot to read the fine print...
of course, then I would never have signed on...
guess there is a reason they don't warn us????
but L/Stresser, you are doing just fine....you have her with a good and reliable doctor and therapist and are there to listen when she is willing to share...
and she has been willing to share....
just don't expect every day to be golden...
ain't gonna happen...
Rainy is only too too right ....
darn it
kat
Posted by bridgey1128 on November 17, 2004, at 5:07:50
In reply to Re: Topamax and depression » rainy, posted by headachequeen on November 16, 2004, at 10:59:53
Heaven help me when I have to go through a REAL crisis with my kids. I think we have done a really good job and I really think we are excellent parents, if I do toot my own horn but at the same time they are still little and have experienced so little. At times, I didn't think I would live through my son's stressful baby times and toddler years. Not that he was bad or bratty. He is ADHD and he is VERY sensitive. So dealing with his frustration being ADHD and undiagnosed and MY frustration because I was bipolar and undiagnosed....you can just imagine the battles we have had. I would love to have another child except for the fact that I do not want to have to go off my medication. I don't want to have to start all over again. I think I would just be putting myself through an emotional roller coaster. Knowing how crazy I was when I was pregnant and all the emotions that went with it, I am not sure I want to go through that again and being off medication. Then having to go back up again on my meds and the side effects. And dealing with my weight and weight loss. I just DON'T WANT TO! By the time we would be able to afford another baby, and yes I know no one can actually AFFORD another baby...hehe but this would be a necessity..Our daughter would be in Kindergarten (she's 3 1/2 and our son is 7) and our son would be in 3rd grade. After that long I am not sure I want to start all over again. I think it would be so hard.....
Posted by headachequeen on November 17, 2004, at 5:07:51
In reply to Re: Topamax and depression, posted by bridgey1128 on November 16, 2004, at 12:43:25
> Heaven help me when I have to go through a REAL crisis with my kids. I think we have done a really good job and I really think we are excellent parents, if I do toot my own horn but at the same time they are still little and have experienced so little. At times, I didn't think I would live through my son's stressful baby times and toddler years. Not that he was bad or bratty. He is ADHD and he is VERY sensitive. So dealing with his frustration being ADHD and undiagnosed and MY frustration because I was bipolar and undiagnosed....you can just imagine the battles we have had. I would love to have another child except for the fact that I do not want to have to go off my medication. I don't want to have to start all over again. I think I would just be putting myself through an emotional roller coaster. Knowing how crazy I was when I was pregnant and all the emotions that went with it, I am not sure I want to go through that again and being off medication. Then having to go back up again on my meds and the side effects. And dealing with my weight and weight loss. I just DON'T WANT TO! By the time we would be able to afford another baby, and yes I know no one can actually AFFORD another baby...hehe but this would be a necessity..Our daughter would be in Kindergarten (she's 3 1/2 and our son is 7) and our son would be in 3rd grade. After that long I am not sure I want to start all over again. I think it would be so hard.....
>It is a huge adjustment..
When our third child was born, our son was almost six and our daughter almost nine...
we had become used to the limited freedom...
that second cup of coffee after dinner and being able to entertain without the ups and downs of life with baby...
and no, you never can really afford a baby <g>
My husband was suddenly obsessed with the fact that the world could not support more children...
global warming, the shortage of fossil fuels and I forget what-all...
was this really the world into which we wanted to bring a child...
I was not supposed to have any more children... we had lost three under disastrous circumstances, I do not do pregnancy very well and our son was born several weeks early but survived..our daughter was definitely unplanned and a surprise...
but she went full term and over term...
she is still stubborn come to think of it and her teen aged years were quite the experience...
she was an angel of a child until she hit seventeen and then life became a whirlwind crossed with a volcano as she made up for all the problems she had missed...
she is now one of my dearest friends and supporters and I have to say that I would not have managed the past few months without her support and friendship...
she is the true Celt... has the second sight and generally knows in advance when I am going to have a seizure....
was up all night walking the floor the night before that massive chaos of a couple of weeks ago... and called yesterday afternoon to warn me that there was one coming last night...
and she was right but it was not a major manifestation, just one of the old nocturnal experiences (as she foresaw... at least she is telling me in advance now !!!! and her father is no longer pooh-poohing her sight... he used to simply snort and tell her to come into the real world...
he is a sassenach and I do not know if he will ever really understand the Gaelic mind poor soul...)However we had our times from the time she was seventeen until some time around the time she was in college...
it was really an agony...
Jekyll and Hyde I think was based on the author's experience with a teen-aged child...I would not have missed the experience of the unexpected and unplanned baby for the world...
but I would gladly have missed those years...
would give my right arm to have missed the experience...
it is though why I have so much experience in that area to share with others who are walking where I have walked and crawled and sometimes simply lain down and sobbed in pain and frustration...
my beautiful brilliant daughter and why was she doing this to herself?
what had I done to cause this?
of course the parents blame themselves...
it is a parent's way of being...
we are ingrained with guilt from the moment of the child's conception... we are supposed to make all things wonderful and special and easy for the child and when things don't go well it is our fault... that is part of the pregnancy and birth experience...
I think it is probably part of the female genetic make-up... one of those chromosomes that sets us apart from the male..
although I know my husband suffered acutely through it...
he blamed himself too....however, as to affording it...
I do not think anyone is ever truly ready, financially or emotionally -- one just copes...
but really, to think the world situation is contingent upon one child??? that was taking it much too far... that is what happens when one marries a thinker....however, the med balance is such an intricate thing...
maybe it is best to enjoy the two you have and preserve your own well-being... you are certainly being logical and thinking of their well-being over your own maternal and bioligical urges...
that is so incredibly commendable...and, having adopted two wonderful and beautiful little girls, well, one was eighteen and the other twenty-one by the time it was done, but they are my little girls and always will be..
they have become bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh... in fact the one looks so much like me that I think my parents have some heavy questions to answer <gg>
her baby and school photos are incredibly and eerily like mine... and today she is more like me than my own children...
hmm maybe *I* have some answering to do...but I started to say that it is always a wonderful and fulfilling option that does not put your health at risk....
and you are obviously such an incredible parent that it would be a shame to curtail those skills ...
man but my mind does take to tangents on the morning after....
a real pushy broad that is I
kat
Posted by bridgey1128 on November 17, 2004, at 5:07:52
In reply to Re: Topamax and depression, posted by headachequeen on November 16, 2004, at 14:03:16
hahah nah, pushy is as pushy does. We wouldn't have you any other way. THere are too many people in this world who are too offended by hearing the truth and it's just plain ol pitiful. Yes, I suffer from Foot In Mouth syndrome but I also am a pretty dang good enough person to tell a friend the truth when they need to hear it whether or not they WANT to. Bluntness is a dying breed thanks to PC crap and it's a crying shame. Too much thought is given to people's "feelings" and not enough to what actually matters. I don't deliberately go around hurting people's feelings and no, I am not a cold and callous person. I am a very warm and caring person and I would want nothing further than to hurt someone. But I also do not mince words and I do not believe in coddling people nor having pity parties. There is a time and place for genuine sympathy and concern and a time to kick people's butts into action and make them stop feeling sorry for themself. That is why I don't make a huge deal about when my kids "hurt" themselves. I see some parents just about fall all over themselves when their little one has a tiny little boo boo. It makes me want to laugh. How does this prepare that child for the real world? By overreacting to the situation? No wonder there are so many crybabies in this world, crying about how life is not fair. Well...life isn't. Don't worry. I'm not teaching my children that this is a cold and callous world. They know that this is a wonderful creation of God. But I also try and teach them to use their heads before they react to situations. I have seen every child, including my own, bump a head or a toe or an arm, then look around to see who is looking..and THEN start to cry. If no one is paying attention..they just go about their merry way. I have told my son over and over and over again that if he cries about every little thing, that I won't believe him when something REALLY happens that needs my immediate attention. I am trying hard to nurture his sensitive nature without making him a crybaby. I think it's a good thing for him to be sensitive to a degree. It means he is empathetic and caring. But overkill means he cries about a lot of things. We try to play those down. The Concerta has helped a lot with that. He used to just burst into tears at the slightest scolding or frustration. I think it might be time to go up again. He is figeting in class, the teacher told me. Not disruptive and still obedient, just starting to show signs of meds not working as well. I told her that he has been on this dosage for quite some time so it might be time to go up again. He currently takes the 54mg. Not sure if that is high or not for a 7 year old. His Dr who is the resident expert doesn't seem to think so. we'll see.
Posted by saw on November 17, 2004, at 5:26:11
In reply to Re: Topamax and depression, posted by bridgey1128 on November 16, 2004, at 19:43:11
Hi everyone.
May I join in here? This is why I love the social board. I missed much of this on the medical board because I don't take Topamax :)
I have a son turning 7 next month with ADHD. (He is on Ritalin) While I love him dearly I fear my mothering / parenting skills are up the creek. He has suffered dearly because of my depression and GAD and while he has a good home and we teach him sound principles, I often feel I have failed.
My son has the crying habit down to a T. I get so angry with him when he cries for nothing. I have accepted that he is an emotional child but wish I could put a stop to the unnecessary crying. I have responded, I have ignored, I have (of course) done the whole unproductive shouting and screaming thing and I too, have told him over and over again that I may not believe him next time.
I am certain that I will be able to glean some valuable parenting advice from this thread.
Sabrina
Posted by stresser on November 17, 2004, at 7:05:20
In reply to May I join in?, posted by saw on November 17, 2004, at 5:26:11
Now that the thread got bumped to the social board, do we need to check the board or does it always get bumped? I still don't know how to figure this out, and I don't want to miss anything!!! Bridgey- Your parenting skills seem to be quite a lot like mine. It's like the cying wolf thing....my daughter is like that. We used to tell her the same thing you tell your son, and I thing so called "high strung" children are sometimes like that. Kat-as always, you are full of wonderful advice that I will take with me through the day, just like I did yesterday. I told my family we must have at least four hugs per day, AT LEAST, and this morning the kids didn't shrug me off when I went in for the hug. Sometimes they think they are too BIG, but that's a CHANG'IN in this house. Kudos to you. I love you. -L
Posted by bridgey1128 on November 17, 2004, at 14:59:32
In reply to Re: May I join in?, posted by stresser on November 17, 2004, at 7:05:20
Sabrina, my son just turned 7 as well in Oct and yours sounds EXACTLY like mine. He's on Concerta and Ritalin in the afternoons when the Concerta(54mg) wears off. His crying jags aren't as bad because he is on the meds but I can tell you one thing. His behavior and crying is a direct correlation to my behavior and moods. If you are depressed and angry or sad and tired, he is going to reflect that in bad behavior or crankiness. He doesn't know what is wrong with mommy so it upsets him and it's going to reflect in bad behavior or sensitiveness. AKA bursting into tears at any given thing when you are upset. We all get really angry and we all yell. It may not be right, but it certainly is normal, so don't feel too guilty. Part of treating ADHD is meds and behavior modification which can include going to a counselor, Psych or just asking a knowledgable Dr. Our son has done so well, and did such a complete turn around on the meds that he didn't need much behavior modification because the meds took care of much of the behavior that needed changing. What exactly is GAD? Are you currently taking medication for your depression to help ease it? One thing I have learned is that part of the crying jag is for attention and sometimes the best thing you can do is just to tell them, "If you are going to act like that then you can just go to your room until you are ready to act like the big boy I know you are." It's not a spanking, it's separation from you. You acknowledged and immediately did something about the action, but you did not give him the attention that he wanted. You put him out of your sight. He can cry his eyes out but it doesn't matter. You aren't there to see it or hear it. And if he cries louder go to another part of the house . I have found it doesn't take very long for my son to calm himself down and come out of his room. You also didn't make him feel like he IS a baby. You called him a big boy by saying his actions were out of line with how a big boy should be acting. And that is what you consider him, not a baby. When he comes out, give him a hug and tell him you are glad to see your big boy again and how much you love him. I believe in a mix of positive and negative reinforcement. I believe wholeheartedly in spankings but I also believe in making your child know that he is loved and cared for. In fact, as soon as my kids get a spanking the first thing they usually say is, "Mommy, I love you!" and turn around for a hug. Sometimes they say, "I WANT MY DADDY!" hahaha I have definitely had my share of melt downs and scream fests. OH BOY have I. I think we all have. When you see "perfect" parents it seems rather creepy. Kind of like when you go to someone's house and it's in perfect, pristine condition with not a single spot of dust anywhere....creepy and unnatural. Kind of like Martha Stewart. Now, some people might have all day to clean their houses top to bottom...there is a name for those people...Obsessive Compulsive! My house is a mess, sad to say. But I would much rather have great kids and a messy house than a spotless house and brats. I had an ex boyfriend one time who had quite a bit of $$$. His parents came to my house to meet my parents and we were always "cat" people and they "dog" people. Well, our house was modest but we cleaned and cleaned to impress them. It was clean and smelled fine! BUt when I asked my boyfriend about what his parents thought he said they complained it smelled like cats. Well, I hate to tell him, but every time I went to his big huge 6 bedroom house..it stank like freaking nasty dogs! Yes, dogs can be clean. I like dogs. In fact, we have 2 rather large dogs. But I was rather insulted that they came and dared to say our house smelled of cat when their house stank to high heaven of Boston Terrier! That and those stupid dogs had the horrible habit of going into my room where I stayed and digging through my clothes and stealing my DIRTY UNDERWEAR!!! We came back one day and there was a lovely pair of my undies sitting on their kitchen table!!! AAAAHHH!!!! His grandmother had found them, and since she couldn't go up the stairs she had laid them on the table for me. HOW THOUGHTFUL!!! I thought I would die. And people wonder why I am a cat person.....
Posted by saw on November 18, 2004, at 3:01:58
In reply to Re: May I join in?, posted by bridgey1128 on November 17, 2004, at 14:59:32
Hi Bridgey
Ok, now I have a habit of writing too quickly and spewing thoughts out before they make sense. So I must try to do this slowly. Sloowwlly!
My son is on Ritalin in the morning only taking 10 mg before school and 5 mg mid morning. I have requested his teacher to give the mid morning just before the end of school as I noticed how his homework time was suffering. Or rather how he was suffering through his homework! It isn’t a very high dosage but it has helped tremendously with his school work. A little bit (wee tiny bit) of his excessive crying only began when he started Ritalin. I will mention this to his doctor when I have him assessed in the New Year. It does concern me a bit that he sometimes appears to be uncontrollably sad. He complains of headaches as well. Other than that, there have been no adverse effects.
Now about the crying. I am relieved to hear he is not the only one. My husband tends to think he IS just a baby and is emotionally immature. I will be reading your post to him later. I yell too much, and way too much at him and I don’t know how not to. It is uncontrollable for me and just bursts out. I can see in his eyes how my yelling at him hurts him. Sending him to his room simply does not work. He screams louder and will not budge. If I physically take him to his room, he keeps coming out. I even resorted to locking his door once. He is very confrontational and I am ashamed to admit that he wins time and time again. I keep telling myself I will not be drawn into an argument with him and that I will withdraw myself from the situation only to find us in the middle of a shouting match. He is afraid of his father (my second husband, I do not acknowledge his biological father as anything remotely that) but not of me. My frustration level is at an all time high.
For behaviour modification and also just to help him focus, we implemented a chart system. It details every little chore from waking up and brushing teeth to “Did I tell a lie today?” He is rewarded with a set amount of money that he will be opening his own bank account with. If he loses more than 5 points on a day, no smiley sticker and no money on that day. If he gets all his smiley stickers for the week, he gets a crown sticker because “he is the king of my castle” and another small amount of money. (He has more money than me at the moment). He responded very well to the chart and on a good day tries his absolute best to get full marks. Just this morning he was dressed and ready for school without one single “please hurry up my boy” from me. On the other hand, the chart can cause stress too. If he doesn’t get a sticker or a crown, he ………. wait for it …….. cries! I simply remind him that he is responsible for his own actions and he is responsible for the outcome on the chart. (I can mail you the chart to look at if you like. Let me know).
It is so hard for us to understand that a little task for him is not so little. When he was first diagnosed, we had such a chuckle when we sent him upstairs to fetch something and by the time he got up the stairs, he had forgotten the request and was playing happily in his room!
GAD is generalized anxiety disorder. For me, this with major depressive disorder and probably bipolar II has been crippling. I don’t even want to think about the long term effects on my son. He will grow up remembering Mom always feeling sick. I started Effexor in August and while it helped initially, the side effects became too many. The weight gain was and still is a monumental problem for me. I have just started Lamictal and am feeling ok. He noticed the change when I first started taking Effexor. He said to my Mom, “mommy’s tummy must be better because she doesn’t cry so much anymore”.
I am chuckling about the clean house. When my son (dude from now on ok?) was a baby, you could have eaten off my floors. (Touch of mania). I could not stop cleaning. I have lightened up over the years and spend more time and energy worrying about the dust and dishes that actually doing anything about them. I try to keep my dude’s room tidy and uncluttered because this does help him but I sometimes feel like giving up when he doesn’t put things back where they belong.
I’m a dog and reptile (we have snakes) person. We have 2 big dogs and one sleeps with dude. So there is forever dog hair all over the house. I would also be offended if anyone tells me my house smells of my pets. We love our pets and they bring us much joy. They are children to us so actually they are saying “your house sticks of kids”
Oh, and those snakes, they’re in my sitting room.I have so much to learn and so much to correct myself on with regards to parenting. I wish I could get into dude’s head for a day to understand what he really feels.
Sabrina
Posted by sunny10 on November 18, 2004, at 10:15:37
In reply to Son called Dude » bridgey1128, posted by saw on November 18, 2004, at 3:01:58
Egads- you are ALL me....Have I created Babble in my mind and developed multi-personalities that are all extremely similar??
(I must be trying to make myself feel better by making my personalities and their kids @6 years younger)
It's all THE SAME ! Right down to the charts and room cleaning and crying jags (which, by the way, 6 yrs later and therapy combined with meds, the pdoc and family doc agree that the Ritalin or other stims can exacerbate and sometimes CAUSE the depression. My "dude" is doing much better with a low, low, low dose of Zoloft).
Yes, he was still having these crying spells up 'til now. It is not an age thing, or something that they can control by "acting like a big boy" according to the docs... You might want to check into that and save ALL of you from that particular added stress.
Sorry to butt in- you may now go back to your regularly scheduled programming.
Posted by stresser on November 18, 2004, at 12:00:17
In reply to Re: Son called Dude » saw, posted by sunny10 on November 18, 2004, at 10:15:37
Those posts are hillarious, I'm laughing my head off!!! My dog travels almost everywhere with me. I don't take him to work with me, that would be a long wait in the car. You can probably emagine how much dog hair is in our blazer at the moment, and how many lick marks are on the windows. You gotta love dogs, that's all I can say. I also have a cat, and didn't understand the cat thing until we took in a stray that was hanging around our house one summer. He dissapeared, but I was hooked and soon made a trip to the pound for another one. So what if I have to vacuum more often, or not? Our cat sleeps with our son, and our dog also sleeps with our son, but not in his bed like the cat. In his room, behind the door. Go figure that out. The hair is nothing compared to compassion and repsonsibility pets teach our children. They are great companions and I know I coudn't live my life without them....one more thing....I too have had my underwear drug through the house by my dog (a poodle, easy guess) when I was a teanager. Many, many, times!!! (and yes, my boyfriend was there once also). You're not alone. -L
Posted by anastasia56 on November 18, 2004, at 13:43:50
In reply to Dogs Cats and all that stuff, posted by stresser on November 18, 2004, at 12:00:17
I once had a dog that liked to dig maxi pads out of the trash and drag them around the house. Fortunately the only time someone was there it was a mini not maxi pad. Still yuck.
Posted by merry on November 18, 2004, at 15:19:17
In reply to Dogs Cats and all that stuff, posted by stresser on November 18, 2004, at 12:00:17
I was wondering where everyone went. I was reading your post,kat, and you made me cry. I always had a struggle about my parenting skills. I adopted my stepson when he was eight years old. He was being raised by his father and grandparents. I had two daughters of my own when I married this boy's father. We became a stepfamily. This wonderful boy became a big brother to six and three year old sisters. He didn't want the position. He became angry and depressed. This little boy had epilepsy. He started to act out at me and my daughters. He made it hard to get close to him. He closed himself up. But I kept trying. I took care of him when he had his seizures, I was with him all the time at the doc visits and the eegs appts. I made sure he took his meds on time. I hugged him even when he pushed me away. I told him I loved him even when he called me a liar. I cried at night because I thought I could never reach him.
This went on for years. There were times when I was afraid to sleep at night because I felt he would kill me while I slept. He was an angry, troubled,young man. He was seeing a pdoc by age 13. The meds helped. By age 16 he got involved in drugs and alcohol and by then I thought I lost him for sure. He dropped out of school and ran away from home. I never gave up on him. But I couldn't help thinking that some how it was my fault. In some way, I could of done something more. I could of done something better, differently. I blamed myself. Maybe,I didn't love him enough because he wasn't my flesh and blood. Maybe,I didn't show him love like I showed my girls and also his new baby brother. I struggled with him and with my illness and my daughter's depression, which I also blamed on myself. It is so hard being a parent. But in the end, He came back to me. He cleaned up. He went back to school. He said sorry to me. He said THANK YOU to me for everything I ever done for him. He said he LOVED me. He said I was the best MOM any one could ever ask for. He is now a thriving healthy member of the community. Married and has a daughter of his own. I am proud of my son. It was hard raising him but it was worth it.Now I am sruggling with my 14yr old daughter and her depression. she just got suspended from school for 5 days for fighting. She is angry too. She takes it out on others. Heaven help me....
merry
Posted by stresser on November 18, 2004, at 20:53:43
In reply to Re: Dogs Cats and all that stuff, posted by merry on November 18, 2004, at 15:19:17
Hi everyone, I think we all got a shift over from the med page. If we start talking medications, will we get shifted back? I'm hoping I don't lose everyone, because this is becomimg a full-time job just looking for you.
Merry- I'm sorry to hear about your daughter beeing suspended from school. You must feel at a loss with what to do, I think we need Kat or Rainy to step in with some motherly advice. I don't have the experience to offer anything of the sort, my day wasn't anything to brag about. You can however; rejoice in the fact that you did raise a wonderful son. One that was very difficult, or so it sounds, and very rewarding. You must be very proud, I would be if I were you. You did something right, maybe you can use your past experiences with him to guide you with your daughter. I get the impression that you are a strong person, and a very loving and caring mother that will do ANYTHING for her child. You did everything and more for your son. WE ARE HERE FOR YOU. -L
Posted by AuntieMel on November 19, 2004, at 11:24:40
In reply to May I join in?, posted by saw on November 17, 2004, at 5:26:11
Sabrina:
I have heard this works.
When he is crying like that it is probably because he is overwhelmed. Pick him up, take him to a quiet room and hold him and stroke him and make soothing sounds and reassure him that you love him until he calms down. The important thing is that he is the ONLY thing that you pay attention to.
This, believe it or not, works for tantrums, and will not spoil him as it isn't the same thing as giving into the tantrum.
Source: I don't remember her name, but she designed the montessori program. Her techniques were perfected while working in, I think, a mental hospital.
I wish I had heard of it when my kids were that age.
Posted by headachequeen on November 20, 2004, at 0:02:09
In reply to Re: May I join in?, posted by stresser on November 17, 2004, at 7:05:20
> Now that the thread got bumped to the social board, do we need to check the board or does it always get bumped? I still don't know how to figure this out, and I don't want to miss anything!!! Bridgey- Your parenting skills seem to be quite a lot like mine. It's like the cying wolf thing....my daughter is like that. We used to tell her the same thing you tell your son, and I thing so called "high strung" children are sometimes like that. Kat-as always, you are full of wonderful advice that I will take with me through the day, just like I did yesterday. I told my family we must have at least four hugs per day, AT LEAST, and this morning the kids didn't shrug me off when I went in for the hug. Sometimes they think they are too BIG, but that's a CHANG'IN in this house. Kudos to you. I love you. -L
Wow! I found everyone... I think...
still trying to get this mailer to send mail...
and brilliantly deleted the other mailer because it would not work for me...
so I have lost all my email addresses for people that I might just want to send emails to...however, on the topic of hugs...
may I state once again that the term hug does not always mean the traditional wrapping around of arms...
a quick touch on the arm as someone passes accompanied by a positive statement...
hey, that colour looks great on youan arm around the shoulders, with a really positive have I told you lately how much I love you?
and then you keep going...not a big issue just an affirmative touch...
and something said that makes it into the hug...you are working so hard with M's pdoc and regular doc to help her find a way around this eating/binging problem and to help her work with the topomax so that she can establish better self-esteem...
and frankly I do not see this thread as being at all social; I see it as part of our topomax thread because it helps us with part of that vital self-esteem part of the reason that so many of us are on topomax...
and you want to regain and retain a positive position in her life without making it a huge issue so these little hug moments are ways to establish you in her life...
start with the four and work up
and with everyone working on it, it has to grow and everyone has to grow with it...
psychological growth according to the psychiatrists who did this study and it was back when our children were little..
must have been a century or two ago...
so it is vital to us and to them....and frankly, L, ma chere amie, I love you just as much...
kat
Posted by headachequeen on November 20, 2004, at 0:13:16
In reply to Re: May I join in? » saw, posted by AuntieMel on November 19, 2004, at 11:24:40
> Sabrina:
>
> I have heard this works.
>
> When he is crying like that it is probably because he is overwhelmed. Pick him up, take him to a quiet room and hold him and stroke him and make soothing sounds and reassure him that you love him until he calms down. The important thing is that he is the ONLY thing that you pay attention to.
>
> This, believe it or not, works for tantrums, and will not spoil him as it isn't the same thing as giving into the tantrum.
>
> Source: I don't remember her name, but she designed the montessori program. Her techniques were perfected while working in, I think, a mental hospital.
>
> I wish I had heard of it when my kids were that age.
This does work....
it works very very well... and for more help on this one, I shall ask a friend who raised two adopted children who were both special needs... one was born with fetal alcohol syndrome as well as being ADHD and the other was born angry because of the anger surrounding her while she was in the womb... and is ADD...also my beloved second eldest daughter works with children who have these problems and I shall call her...
when one has these resources why not put them to work for one???
for that matter, I am ADD... as an adult and was no doubt as a child...
I am an only child and it is probably a good thing... I would never willingly have shared my grandparents with a sibling LOL
but I have always had a hard time being still and calm and all the things that go with it...
but instead of meds, my teachers challenged me, and put me to work on things that interested me or gave me books to read... books beyond my age group...
in grade two I was reading Kipling, Shute and Bates ... Kipling is still my favourite above all and the other two come in very close seconds... I remember in grade one reading a book called Artie and the Princess and The Land of Green Ginger two children's books I still treasure... and Maggie Muggins... the only 'children's books' I really valued...
I had found books written for older people and away I went...
In my teens I never experimented with drugs...
and look at me now, making up for lost time :(
kat
Posted by headachequeen on November 20, 2004, at 0:16:39
In reply to Re: Son called Dude » saw, posted by sunny10 on November 18, 2004, at 10:15:37
> Egads- you are ALL me....Have I created Babble in my mind and developed multi-personalities that are all extremely similar??
>
> (I must be trying to make myself feel better by making my personalities and their kids @6 years younger)
>
> It's all THE SAME ! Right down to the charts and room cleaning and crying jags (which, by the way, 6 yrs later and therapy combined with meds, the pdoc and family doc agree that the Ritalin or other stims can exacerbate and sometimes CAUSE the depression. My "dude" is doing much better with a low, low, low dose of Zoloft).
>
> Yes, he was still having these crying spells up 'til now. It is not an age thing, or something that they can control by "acting like a big boy" according to the docs... You might want to check into that and save ALL of you from that particular added stress.
>
> Sorry to butt in- you may now go back to your regularly scheduled programming.
"Butt in?" what means this, "Butt in"??????you make a valid point... and we need to hear from you again and again... hint hint hint...
is that subtle enough????Ritalin is not really a great choice for children... it can do more harm than good...
there are other better and safer choices out there... Susie.. excuse me, Sue, my ADHD specialist wonderchild is anti-Ritalin and then some and is preparing some ideas for me to share with you...
so stay tuned to this channel...<G>
and we shall share as soon as she sends them
kat
Posted by sunny10 on November 20, 2004, at 9:38:52
In reply to Re: Son called Dude » sunny10, posted by headachequeen on November 20, 2004, at 0:16:39
Son was switched to Adderall, but I'm still not happy about it. The Adderall tapped into his innate depression, bringing it to the fore early, IMO.
So, at 13, he is on Adderall and Zoloft.... I just feel lke we are over-medicating him, but schools here refuse to deal with "over-active children". If I "put my foot down" and refuse to medicate him, I have to be prepared to send him to private school, which I can't afford...
Posted by headachequeen on November 20, 2004, at 9:47:57
In reply to Re: Son called Dude, posted by sunny10 on November 20, 2004, at 9:38:52
> Son was switched to Adderall, but I'm still not happy about it. The Adderall tapped into his innate depression, bringing it to the fore early, IMO.
>
> So, at 13, he is on Adderall and Zoloft.... I just feel lke we are over-medicating him, but schools here refuse to deal with "over-active children". If I "put my foot down" and refuse to medicate him, I have to be prepared to send him to private school, which I can't afford...
Having been a teacher in a former incarnation I have to say that I find that unacceptable...
I have taught ADD and ADHD children in the days before they were identified and labelled...
and it was just a case of a child who was more challenging...
one had to find a way to handle this child, to find a way to interest him in what was going on in the classroom, to create a way to teach him or her and create a learning environment that worked for that child...
well, that was where the men and the boys were separated...
the real teachers stood up and the wannabes fell by the wayside
frankly I preferred teaching the difficult children -- felt I was accomplishing somethingLittle Goodie-Two-Shoes was a howling bore and who wanted to teach that child anyway?
kat
Posted by headachequeen on November 20, 2004, at 9:57:58
In reply to Re: Son called Dude, posted by sunny10 on November 20, 2004, at 9:38:52
Well, sports fans, I am in the aura mode this morning, fighting my way through that fog or dream world.
Typing those two or three posts was a challenge
but I feel strongly about ADD children and I feel strongly about this board...
and the people on it...
and for those who suddenly popped up on it, where are you????
we need you...
you are our new friends and playmates and the new pillars of our community...
Me, I am going to wait this thing out and defy it to go any farther than this.
I had planned to call tech support to find out why I cannot send email other than to this board...
I can receive email but cannot send it...
what a pain...a friend just came by with her Rottweiler girl so I could say good-bye... we knew it was coming...
she is well past the age the breed normally reaches but that makes it no easier...
I said I would go to the vet's with her and I shall, aura or not...
I sat in the back of the van with my arms wrapped around Miss Willow while she laid her head upon my shoulder to say good-bye. She snuggled right in. They know it is good-bye. Does she think I am leaving or does she know she is leaving? My friend took a look at me and thought I was best left at home and now I feel guilty - I have let her down and Miss W as well...
we go back a long time, from the moment of her birth through a lot of dog shows and her puppies to playtimes and just hanging out together...
I hate this 'condition'
It is vicious and interfering and I want it out of my life and I want it gone now...
yes, -L, I want it all, gift-wrapped with bright blue ribbons...hang in there, mon amie, your wonderful daughter is going to reach her goals...
as is everyone...
these children are loved...
that is the first and most important thing...
the love...
kat
Posted by saw on November 22, 2004, at 0:42:23
In reply to Re: Son called Dude » sunny10, posted by headachequeen on November 20, 2004, at 0:16:39
Dude is on a low dosage and while there are many alternative approaches and different ways to deal with an ADHD child, if it weren't for the Ritalin, poor Dude would have been expelled from school.
I realise there are many choices but from a safety point of view, Ritalin is aiding my son tremendously more than doing him any harm.
I do so feel for the parents who's children have been harmed by Ritalin. ADHD is not easy to live with. Not for the parent and most importantly, not for the child.
Sabrina
Posted by bridgey1128 on November 23, 2004, at 16:06:15
In reply to Anti Ritalin » headachequeen, posted by saw on November 22, 2004, at 0:42:23
Sunny, I hate to tell you, but a private school won't touch your son if he isn't on medication. Most won't allow a child with ADHD even IN the school unless they are on medication. That is their right, they are private. Adderall is a HORRID, HORRID, DRUG!! I have never heard of anyone getting hurt from Ritalin. If they were, they probably didn't need to be on it to begin with. I honestly think it all begins with the parenting. There are way too many kids out there who are dubbed ADHD who aren't, they are just the result of bad parenting skills. Not to say any of your kids are. I am just saying I have seen too many in person that you look at the kid running around in circles thinking, man that kid should be on something..and yes I have been guilty of that in the past..and then you look at the parent and what are they doing? NOTHING!!! Talking to someone else, reading a book, TOTALLY ignoring their child screaming, or hitting some other kid, or falling or doing something else without any kind of regard to anyone's safety, much less their own child. Our son is on Concerta(long lasting Ritalin) and it is fantastic. No side effects. Even his eating is better because he can actually SIT STILL and concentrate long enough to actually FINISH a whole meal! He is still skinny, but he always has been. That just hasn't changed. He was premature by 3 weeks and his growth isn't stunted. He isn't short for his age. He is right on target. He is a little thin, which may or may not be caused by the Concerta. It's hard to tell because he has always been thin and most of the men in our family were thin when they were young. About hugging, I guess you know your own child best but I don't tolerate needless crying. I also don't tolerate whining, which is what I consider the excessive crying. I do know my own son, and when you baby him it just gets worse and worse. I don't believe in babying kids. That might work on some but I can't stand to see parents just absolutely lavish attention on a tiny little boo boo. That just makes the negative attention worse. Hug your child, make them know it's going to be ok, but you don't have to treat them like they are an infant. That just creates clingy, whiney, kids. My daughter is SUUUUCH and actress. She KNOWS who gives her sympathy and who does not and OH BOY does she milk it for ALLLLL it is worth. When she falls and hurts herself in front of Mommy, Mommy checks to be sure it's ok, kisses it and sends her on her way. Sometimes I have to tell her to stop the excessive crying because I am not falling for the dramatic act. She usually stops pretty quick. She can turn those tears on like a faucet!! Now...when SUGAR is around OH LORDY it's the end of the world. WAAAHHHH!!!! She milks it for every bit of sympathy she is going to get. When I came back from being at Music Camp this past summer, my daughter had about 6 bandaids on her. I thought, Oh my gosh, what happened?...NOTHING! She had bandaids on her and there was NOTHING UNDER THEM! I was like..."Mom, why does she have bandaids all over her and nothing under them?"
" Oh, well, because she wanted them"
...uh ok...
AARRRGHHH!!!!!I have to "debrat" my kids everytime my parents have them for any great length of time because they spoil them so. Yeah, grandparents think they have this right, but I think it's more their responsibility to uphold the parents teachings because it SOO makes it harder on us to be the "bad" guys. I hear SOO often, "Well Sugar or Papaw lets me do this or that." Well goody. I am your parent. I don't care what they let you do. They have made their mistakes, they don't need to keep remaking them with our kids. I know my kids probably think I am very strict. But I have to be. I have so much in this world to combat that isn't. Morally, socially, academically, GRANDPARENTALLY! I think that they will look back one day and thank me. I know I will have some very tough battles. My daughter and I will knock heads MORE than a few times. We are too much alike. Feelings will be hurt. My son is a perfect little mold. Always wanting to please. Handsome little boy. My biggest challenge with him is to make him his own person. Yes, follow the rules but be your own person as you do. Think for yourself! My daughter's biggest challenge will be, STOP BREAKING THE RULES!! Sweet little girl. Very Dramatic. Very beautiful. Curly red hair and big blue eyes. Manipulative streak a mile wide if I don't watch it. WHEW! Do I have my job cut out for me or don't I?!
Posted by headachequeen on November 23, 2004, at 20:52:53
In reply to Re: Anti Ritalin, posted by bridgey1128 on November 23, 2004, at 16:06:15
As a former teacher, and one who taught in a private school as well as in public and separate board schools, I have seen the effects of Ritalin first hand...
the private school in which I taught had a Ritalin policy: simply put, NO ritalin...
there had to be another way...
studies have shown such damage...
and teachers often insist on it because they are too lazy to do their jobs...
speaking as an ADD possibly ADHD kid who is still ADD as an adult, I know and can remember some wonderful teachers and some lousy teachers in the years (remember I am from the 19th century) before it was identified let alone diagnosed and long before ritalin was developed...
the great ones kept me challenged and made sure that I was on track and then met my behaviour appropriately and I hope I learned from them for the days when I was in a classroom...
there is a great deal of what we used to call school phobia and it usually can be tracked right back to the teacher...
oh how I would hate to think I caused it for a child...There are programmes and there are special schools that deal with children with the problems that accompany ADD/ADHD and there are counsellors that work with parents and teachers...
it is not an easy task...
ask my mother... she will tell you...
I could not sit still; still can't... and always had to be doing, moving, talking, bouncing....
now I just say it was the epilepsy of course... have a scapegoat, but the reality is that I am and always will be ADD and have not found a way to eliminate it...
It certainly is not the result of bad parenting skills...
often I found it was a child who was extremely bright with wonderful parents who did the utmost...In one case I discovered the child had severe problems pushing him into all sorts of behaviours...
he had come home from school one day to find his father, a war veteran and older when his three sons were born, hanging from the rafters in the barn...
the boy was nine at the time ....
his mother was forty-plus when he was born and not in good health...
he lived with what he had found and with the fear that one day she would die too... and what would happen to him..
he was unable to pay attention to anything...
extremely bright.. the entire class was A-stream and he was among the top six in the class but I had to spend as much time as possible with him, channeling his interest and attention...
it was May before I found out what had happened in his life...
some mental midget in his fourth grade had not noted the suicide in his records...
we could have done so much more for him with that knowledge...
he is now an active person in the community... politically active, a businessman, successful and a good father...
and an adult ADHD ....
we are still friends and I will never forget the day he turned to me at an antique auction and said, Dear heaven! You're ADD too... you know, you can get help for that... your daughter is really good at counselling and treating the disorder...
we were rolling on the floor..
so much for my dignity...
someday maybe she will be able to help me...
and she is supposed to put together some material for us...
must get on her case about it...
kat who gets bored soo easily
Posted by bridgey1128 on November 27, 2004, at 20:17:54
In reply to Re: Anti Ritalin » bridgey1128, posted by headachequeen on November 23, 2004, at 20:52:53
Actually, I have seen many studies that have shown that children who are NOT put on drugs for ADHD have more tendencies to abuse drugs and alcohol later in life. Also, not being put on some kind of treatment has shown to have brain damage effects. When a child with ADHD is not treated, their brains go in hyper active mode and over the years this can cause damage. I must reiterate that not every child who is diagnosed as ADHD/ADD IS actually so. I can honestly say I wouldn't put my son through the frustration of pretending that ritalin is dangerous. I honestly have never heard that. I am sure in high enough doses it could be because it is a stimulant and narcotic but I have to say it's probably because the child in question was not actually ADHD and had no business taking the drug to begin with or it was the wrong drug. It's just like with every other kind of drug out there. Sometimes it's the wrong one. How many of us have had to switch antidepressants or bipolar meds or any other # of meds until we found one that worked. I would dare say that Adderall is 10 times more dangerous than Ritalin has ever been perceived to be. My son's own Dr isn't even FOR stimulant or ADHD drugs. He has written a 10 page paper on it for perspective new patients and has studied it for years but he has also concluded that my son is in the small percentage that should be on a stimulant drug. I don't think that stimulant drugs are for every child with ADHD either. Some can be controlled with diet, some with behavior therapy. If that is the case, then usually it's something that the parent has or has not done if it's just a matter of behavior. When my son CANNOT concentrate it does not matter HOW good a teacher is. There is nothing that teacher can do to make him pay attention. He just cannot do it. He had two awesome teachers last year. Very attentive and very caring. Even if he had a teacher that was one on one that teacher couldn't have made him concentrate. He wouldn't have been able to absorb any of his lessons because he wouldn't have been able to sit still long enough to listen. He would have done nothing but cried out of frustration. So, it matters little how wonderful and patient the teacher is when a child is ADHD. If they can't concentrate, they can't concentrate. I know that we can't work on his homework until about 4pm when his next dose has kicked in because he gets frustrated and starts crying. I refuse to put him through that. I can't imagine how behind he would be if I had not put him on the Concerta and we absolutely do not regret it one single iota. He is so smart and his teachers last year and this year have told me how sweet he is and how smart he is and how much they enjoy him. He has always been sweet. He is not drugged. It has not destoyed his "potential" or his creativity. It has only made him be able to contentrate and work TO his potential. If a child acts like they are drugged then they are way over medicated. Their personality should not change. I wouldn't begin to tell a parent that they need to medicate their child but I would tell someone off in a heartbeat if they felt the need to tell me I was drugging mine. How many parents give their children insulin if they are diabetics? Or if they had cancer gave them treatments? Or if they have allergies give them meds or if they are sick they give them antibiotics? So why is it wrong for me to be able to treat my son's ADHD with the medication that makes him able to actually function like a normal human being? Not be frustrated into tears. It has nothing to do with good teachers or bad parenting in our situation. It has everything to do with the fact that he absolutely CANNOT focus or concentrate. What is so frustrating to him has always been that he WANTS to, but he can't. Kat, I am sure you were/are an excellent teacher but we have to agree to disagree on this one. I do agree that there are many different approaches to treating ADHD. I do have to say that if just the behavior therapy works, it makes you wonder if they probably just needed a good spanking to begin with. True ADHD cases usually need a combination of stimulant and behavior therapy. Since we have always been so strict and he has always been on a schedule of some sort since he was born he hasn't had to see anyone for behavior therapy. Even his current Dr doesn't think it is necessary because he doesn't have behavior problems(other than a normal 7 year old). We pretty much nip any behavioral problems in the bud before they start. I'm not trying to toot my own horn, I am just saying it's easier to prevent them now than to have to deal with them later on when they get out of hand! I think that is one problem with parenting. People wait until kids are like 3 and 4 to start disciplining their kids and by then it's way too late! I really admire people with more than 2 kids. It's all I can manage sometimes with just my 2. I couldn't imagine 4 or 5! Kat how did you manage so many! I saw a thing the other night on these people who had 14 and pregnant again! EGADS!!! Too many for me thanks! I am just not that organized! Oh my...so anyway...Hope you all had a great Turkey Day...I have to go work off these pounds I gained....ugh
This is the end of the thread.
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