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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Scott in Vermont on April 14, 2004, at 15:33:57
I've been here for a couple of weeks now, and I haven't ever really posted anything that was specific to myself. Today I'm at work, it's slow, and I'm feeling emotionally flat. So I figured why not tell a portion of my story to complete strangers on the Internet?
Tomorrow at 10am I’m expecting to receive the final decision from my wife about her divorce wishes. I want the divorce to be amicable and civil. So far, she has tried to make it trench warfare. Last night I called her in a last attempt to get her to drop the current suit and to do this ourselves. I’ll know her “official” answer tomorrow, but knowing her as long as I have, my last effort was hopeless before I even picked up the phone.
The initial papers she submitted are insane, and I have until 04/20 to respond. She has asked for $2k a month, sole physical and legal custody of the children, and sole ownership of the family home.
I have consulted with 4 lawyers at this point, and they have all told me essentially the exact same thing- that the State of Vermont doesn't care about the drama, it only cares about property, support, and custody. Each lawyer estimated support around $450 to $680 per month (ranging from best case to worst case scenario) and cannot find any reason why joint custody would not be awarded if I request it.
They have also referred to the equity laws in Vermont, and have all but assured me that the family home will be sold. This is a huge point for me. I do not want her to lose the house. I have tried to explain this to her, and she has stated that she thinks I am lying to scare her. My concern for the house is not for her per se, but for the children.
My offer to her is to not do this through the court and instead attend mediation for our divorce. That will allow her to keep the house, give us flexibility with custody, and keep this from becoming an unreasonable process.
I'm already giving her $650/m, and I have agreed to continue that level of voluntary support and have also stated that I would increase it when I’m able. It’s still not good enough. I already left the house per her request. The children stay with her 4 nights a week. She is getting a third of my monthly net, and I pay for all of the insurance costs separately. She has everything she wanted and more.
I’ve been out of the house per her request for a month and a half. Prior to that, I spent 5 months trying to reconcile our marriage. She abused me terribly during this time, verbally agreeing to seek counseling and reconciliation, and then perform actions that screamed otherwise (such as calling me from her boyfriends house to tell me she won’t be home that night).
I have accepted that she doesn’t want a relationship with me and that my marriage is over. I have done the things she has asked me to do up to this point, even when doing those things hurt me. I’m frustrated by her “you owe me” attitude, I’m sickened how she is using the children as a tool to further her own financial gains, and I’m nearly beside myself over her refusal to look at the black & white of Vermont equity laws.
Even in the most extremely liberal judgment, she could only hold on to the house for 5 years. In amazingly unusual circumstance, she could get it until both children reached 18. This case will be neither of those. It’s a plain old divorce with a few sticky bits of detail to make it messy for mediation but pretty straightforward as far as the courts go. She’s going to be ignorantly stubborn, and in doing so lose the one thing she has stated really matters to her.
I don't care about the house at all, and I'll give her a fair and reasonable amount of support even if the courts tell me I can pay less. I’m a good father, and I want to be there to help raise the children. I know she’s sick of being a mother. She has said so dozens of times. But all of a sudden, it’s her “badge of sacrifice” in front of her friends to be a mom and work part-time (the nights I have the children) because (oh sigh!) her husband LEFT her. Yes, that’s her story. I just up and left. Reality is not an issue she deals with well.
I posted this because I’m feeling flat, alone, and very frustrated. I figure there are other people out there who have been through similar things, and might have some comments positive or negative. And really, I’m just feeling like I’ve already lost before the fight has even begun, because if this goes to court, there can be no positive resolution no matter what happens.
Another pothole on the road of life, I suppose. It could be worse.
Posted by Tootercat on April 14, 2004, at 16:29:17
In reply to Just feeling flat, posted by Scott in Vermont on April 14, 2004, at 15:33:57
Scott, Just a brief note to let you that your post has been read and I feel badly that your wife is, once again, giving women a bad name. I realize that there are 2 sides to every story but I intuit that you are not being unjust. I am in the process of a divorce where no children are involved and mine even got sticky for awhile. When relationships break up strange things happen to some people's values and emotions. The ones who get hurt the most are usually the kids. My husband came to his senses and we finally went to a paralegal and did a marital settlement agreement and have reinstated our friendship. Although it sounds like your wife has gone off the deep end miracles do happen and maybe she'll see the futility of involving lawyers and the court....then again she may be getting some encouragement from the new boyfriend to be ruthless... I am very sorry and am here to talk to ....
Hugs,
Tooter
Posted by justyourlaugh on April 14, 2004, at 19:14:21
In reply to Re: Just feeling flat » Scott in Vermont, posted by Tootercat on April 14, 2004, at 16:29:17
scott,
i think the main thing to realize is that you are not her..
your kids need you to not "play" them.
keep up the good work..
your reward will be the relationship and respect the kids will have for you , now and forever..jyl
Posted by Scott in Vermont on April 15, 2004, at 7:03:10
In reply to Just feeling flat, posted by Scott in Vermont on April 14, 2004, at 15:33:57
Thank you both for your words. It's 7:55 am here, and I already know the outcome. It's lawyers, it's courts, it's ugly and bitter.
I'm disappointed, but not surprised. I have been trying to be rational with an irrational person. My efforts ceased this morning. From this point, my lawyer will speak for me, and after everyone has spent an enormous amount of money that none of us have, the end result is the children lose out.
Time, they say, heals all wounds. In all honesty, I'm really getting sick of "time". Right now, I don't have enough of it, but in a week, I'm going to have entirely too much (meaning not much else will happen for about 4 to 5 months after the emergency hearing for support and custody).
I never wanted this. I did everything I could to stop this, to repair our relationship, to be a man for her. By the time I found out things were truly wrong, she had already made up her mind. It is the way of things, and I can accept that. What I cannot accept is that she wishes me to be "punished" for choices she made.
It will be what it will be. All I can do now is prepare for the storm and do all I can to protect the children and myself.
Posted by Scott in Vermont on April 20, 2004, at 10:33:50
In reply to Just feeling flat, posted by Scott in Vermont on April 14, 2004, at 15:33:57
I'm meeting with my lawyer at 3pm. Once I file my reply at 4:30pm today, there is no turning back unless my wife decides to stop this madness. My response is as bitter as hers, and while it is in defense of myself, it is guaranteed to make this a long and drawn-out process.
I don't want to be with her anymore, she has "cured" me of any thoughts of reconciliation. I just want to be a good father and to move on with my life.
Today makes 3 weeks of Lexapro, 55 days of physical separation, and more than 6 1/2 months of misery. Yesterday was an ok day, today is not.
Tomorrow, however, is another day, a fresh chance for light and life. I intend to make the most of what is left of today, and look to tomorrow being better.
Posted by justyourlaugh on April 20, 2004, at 13:44:45
In reply to Today is 4/20, posted by Scott in Vermont on April 20, 2004, at 10:33:50
scott,
i admire you positive thoughts towards the future.
your kids are your goal.
not all days will be filled with rainbows and lollipops..but a smile from a child is sometimes all we need..
i hope it goes better than you ever expected..
jyl
Posted by Scott in Vermont on April 21, 2004, at 12:29:41
In reply to Re: Today is 4/20 » Scott in Vermont, posted by justyourlaugh on April 20, 2004, at 13:44:45
Thanks JYL. Yesterday did not get any better. I did what I had to do, but I didn't feel good about it at all. I can accept that she and I are finished, but it did not have to end this way.
Today has been better. Friends have been supportive, and my lawyer isn't taking any particular pleasure in the response we filed. I worked so hard to put this back together, and when I finally accepted that it was futile, I worked just as hard to make this an amicable process where we both walk away with as few open wounds as possible.
My wife had other ideas.
So it has come to this- full-blown miserable divorce trench warfare. I gave her choices and options... I didn't want this. But I will not stand by and watch my future with my children be stripped away from me by trying to be the "nice guy" while she attacks me with accusations I can defend myself from.
The children are coming over this weekend. All I want to do is curl up with them and read Captain Underpants. Celebrate the silliness of childhood, and cherish the time I as an adult have with my children before they become adults themselves.
Ugly business, divorce.
Posted by rainyday on April 21, 2004, at 18:56:22
In reply to Re: Today is 4/20, posted by Scott in Vermont on April 21, 2004, at 12:29:41
S in V, I am still reeling from the aftermath of my divorce, and I initiated it! 18 years down the tube. No children but we had issues about visitation right for the cats. You can tell it got very petty. I am dealing with the fallout now, after 3 years. This is a great resource - use this board for strength and inspiration!
You sound like a great dad to your kids. Bask in their love and shining faces, wipe their tears and kiss the booboos away. Reading to them is the BEST!!! it is such a profound experience, whether they fall asleep or get excited by the tale. It is a precious gift to give your kids.
It is one of the few really good memories I have of childhood.
rainyday (trying to become partlycloudy.)
Posted by Scott in Vermont on April 22, 2004, at 7:25:22
In reply to Divorce is an ugly business, posted by rainyday on April 21, 2004, at 18:56:22
Hello rainyday,
Thank you for the compliments. The children are incredibly important to me. They gave me a reason to "stay" when I wanted to "leave", and are also the #1 reason why I sought help when I realized that I was no longer able to stand up to the world by myself.
I miss what I had with my wife, and I have mourned for the future we could have had. But it is a small matter now. The damage done is done, and even if she were to change her mind, I would not go back. If nothing else, I could not live with the possibility that she could do this to me again.
So it is for the children and myself that I carry on, and I truly do look to them for purpose and focus. In return, I hope to be a father they can look to for example and for guidance.
I wish you all the best in your quest to become partlycloudy. Life is too short to have it rain all the time.
:)
ps- my wife kept the cat. I miss the cat now more than my wife. Ha.
Posted by Scott in Vermont on April 23, 2004, at 8:26:16
In reply to Just feeling flat, posted by Scott in Vermont on April 14, 2004, at 15:33:57
Next appt with pdoc is 04/29, next appt with T is 05/03. I really wish one or the other was a bit sooner.
I'm feeling kicked and beaten right now. I mean, emotionally I'm remaining "stable" (I'm not curled up in blanket in a dark closet in a dark room bawling my eyes out and shaking) but wow... I really feel like crap.
I know this is survivable, but at what price?
Today is not the best day I have had this week. I keep reminding myself of who I am, what I am, what I have been through, and the strength I have to face anything. It almost doesn't matter. The weak part of myself wants to give in and go home and spend the rest of the day hiding under the covers. The cynical part of myself makes fun of me, and the responsible part of myself is making a strong case for staying at work and seeing this day through. Responsible and rational are ganging up on weak, so I think I'll see this day through to 5pm and then head home to a weekend with the kids.
But it is only 9:17 am here. I feel like I have been at work for 6 hours already. It's slow, which gives me too much time to think about past events that lead to this, present events that may explode (my wife should have a copy of my response today) and future events that could occur. That's what is stomping me. The only real fear I have in this world is that of the unknown. And right now, I have an awful lot of that ahead of me. Normally I face it with a shrug of my shouders and say "the future is unknown, so make the most of now" but that just isn't making it for me today.
Rational and responsible just took a hard hit from fear and anxiety. I know I'm falling today because I stayed up all night last night stressed out of my mind and could not sleep, and I didn't want to take anything to sleep. This is not who I normally am. Today is a rough day.
9:24. It's going to be a looooooong day.
Posted by justyourlaugh on April 23, 2004, at 8:35:41
In reply to Just feeling flat... again, posted by Scott in Vermont on April 23, 2004, at 8:26:16
scott,
i sure do admire the strength that you show everyday.
and to be able to seek and want help is a strength i do not have..
you sound to me like a man who knows himself well and is srtong .
you shall overcome this horrid day and may even treat yourself to a little pleasure this evening.
you are deserving
jyl
Posted by rainyday on April 23, 2004, at 10:16:10
In reply to Re: Just feeling flat... again » Scott in Vermont, posted by justyourlaugh on April 23, 2004, at 8:35:41
Scott, this day will end eventually. You are incredibly resilient - more so than you think or give yourself credit for! Just think of what you have endured so far. If anything, you are a champion.
p.s. I take off my watch if the day seems too long.
Posted by Scott in Vermont on April 23, 2004, at 11:22:59
In reply to Re: Just feeling flat... again » Scott in Vermont, posted by justyourlaugh on April 23, 2004, at 8:35:41
JYL- thank you. I know who I want to be, and that is where I find the strength I have. I cannot go back to what I once was. It's not an option. Going back to that is losing all I have done up to now.
I am treating myself to some pleasure this evening- the children are coming to spend the weekend. I'm thinking a simple dinner, a couple games of Chutes & Ladders, and then some Captain Underpants before bedtime. Those are the moments I live for. Literally.
Posted by Scott in Vermont on April 23, 2004, at 12:03:28
In reply to Re: Just feeling flat... again, posted by rainyday on April 23, 2004, at 10:16:10
It’s odd that you used the word "champion" in your post to describe me, because that very concept is what is causing me so much hurt and doubt right now.
I hate this. I hate all of this. I used to be my wife's champion, protector, and defender, and now I’m going to be her destroyer? There is something horribly wrong with that idea to me. I didn’t want this. I didn't want to have to respond so harshly just to defend myself. I keep asking myself the same questions over and over... and in the end, it doesn't matter. It is what it is. But saying that doesn't make it any easier to accept.
I used to love her. I used to want to be her man and be her champion and be there for her when she needed me. Now, I’m going to be the reason she need someone else. I’m not her champion, I’m her nemesis, her archenemy… and I don’t understand why.
Yes, she initiated this divorce, she refused any attempt to reconcile, she fired the first shot that made this process so bitter, and she refused to reconsider even when I called her from my lawyer's office to give her one last opportunity to not do this like this. I should have no moral or ethical qualms whatsoever about what is about to happen to her, because she has shown me nothing but hatred, spite, and bitterness.
But I do. I feel terrible. I feel like everything is hopeless, and that nothing good will ever grow again on the field where this battle is going to be fought.
I know I will heal and move on. I'm an adult and I have life experience that will help me cope. My children (6 and 8) do not have that benefit. It is for them that I feel most frightened. This is all happening at a terrible time. The peak of conscious childhood, before their bodies start to change them into little adults and their social contacts turn them into "teenagers". To me, this is ending their innocence too early. To me, this is unconscionable. My wife has sought to “find” and “free” herself, and in doing so has torn asunder the lives of many, many people.
I keep trying to focus on the hard facts, but I keep slipping back to the “what if I had done this or that…” and I feel an enormous amount of guilt for not laying down and allowing myself to be stomped on by her spurious lies and her vicious lawyer.
I’m hoping some sleep and a mellow weekend with the kids will help me settle my feelings. My resolve is unchanged, I just want to emotionally accept that what I am doing is all that I can do, everything else was already tried and I should move on and focus on what needs to be finished.
Posted by Tootercat on April 23, 2004, at 13:12:03
In reply to Just feeling flat... again, posted by Scott in Vermont on April 23, 2004, at 8:26:16
Scott, I wish that I could chat with you personally. I feel so much pain and confusion coming from you. I am curious but know it is not right to ask why she has said she is divorcing you. I was the one who initiated the divorce in my case and I had a clear reason for knowing I could no longer live with my husband. The difference in my case is that I didn't and don't want to "punish" him for what neither of us could provide for the other any longer. My ultimate goal is for both of us to move on and have a chance at getting what we need whether it be with another person or on our own for awhile.
I am also a child of divorce and know the consequences. I have struggled through life and have learned to survive. Though it has taken awhile I have regained my balance and am learning to LIVE my life. Having experienced the struggles that I have has made me a stronger person and I am aware now that it gives me what I hope is a gift to be able to share my experiences in order to help someone else. You cannot put a bubble around your kids but you can surround them with the knowledge that they are loved and always have a safe place with you when needed. Don't know if any of this will help you but I am here and I do care.Hugs,
Toots
Posted by Scott in Vermont on April 23, 2004, at 14:48:03
In reply to On the other side...... » Scott in Vermont, posted by Tootercat on April 23, 2004, at 13:12:03
To be honest, I'm not really sure. She has changed her reasons many times in the last few months, but the recurring themes are- she is divorcing me because she is "burned out", because of 10 years of me not being "perfect", 8 years of being a reluctant mother, and a lifetime of disappointments all coming to a head in her mid-30's crisis.
I wish that she would get help. This "thing" she is now is not the person I used to know... but perhaps this is who she has always been inside and everything else was the facade. I don't know. And I wish I didn't care. I want to move on past this. I cannot try again with her; she has hurt me too deeply and too often. All I want now is to make sure she doesn't spread her disease of spiteful indifference to the children.
I wanted us to be a family together. That simply is not going to happen. After 5 ½ months, I finally gave up. Now my focus for the children is figuring out how to provide as much of a “family” for the children as is possible. I know I cannot create a “bubble” for the children, and I never would want to if I could. But I do want to lessen the blow of harsh reality if I can, and ensure that they always know they have a place for love, safely, and acceptance wherever I am.
I don't know if sharing email here is ok, but you can email me at scottinvt@hotmail.com
This is the end of the thread.
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