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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Essence on January 20, 2003, at 7:41:34
Hi;
I have never posted here, usually lurk and occasionally post on the drug forum. I really need some feedback and a place to express what I'm feeling of late. I will briefly fill you in on who I am. I am 42, married 24 1/2 yrs, have 2 sons, 21 & 15. I have suffered depression and anxiety since the birth of my youngest son in 87.
Now on to the reason why I am posting here. My youngest son was diagnosed as ADHD at a very early age, 2 yrs old, through mental health. I initially took him there because I couldn't handle him and feared hurting him. He always cried, was always cranky, never happy and never quiet. He demanded 24 hr watch as we never knew what he would get into next. He slept in a stroller next to our bed (he was able to get out of his crib at 9 mos old) so we could push it the numerous times he awoke in the night to get him back to sleep. This later changed as he got older and my husband took up residence in his bedroom at night to ensure he was sleeping and staying put and out of danger. Through the support of mental health, I had to learn new coping skills and learn different modes of behavioural techniques to cope with my son which initially had positive results. Having already started taking psychotropic medications myself for my depression and anxiety, I REFUSED to subject my son to any brain chemical changing meds. This decision has inadvertantly turned around to bite me on the ass. What I thought was an informed decision to not medicate my son (my fear of what the meds might do him) may have been his undoing as you will see in the following.
As I stated above, my son and I were followed through mental health for many years, until my son was about 9. Alot of strategies they recommended and the new coping skills they provided me were working so I thought I had this thing beat. I need to be slapped for even thinking it would that easy. At the age of 12 as my son entered Junior High, he started spiralling out of control. Since the age of 12 he has started smoking, was always in detention at school, became totally disrespectful of any adult and especially any adult in authority such as teachers, parents, grandparents, and cops, he would fly into rages for no apparent reasons and he also began running away from home whenever he didn't get his own way. He has failed the past 4 yrs in school. The school system just kept moving him up although as it stands right now, he only has a grade 6 education in grade 9 unless he starts to pass in High School (which he is already failing). Over the past 6 mos, he has been verablly abusive with me, continues to run away, has become destructive with our stuff, is now drinking and coming home drunk with no worries about his dad and I finding out about it. He has also gotten into trouble with the law for vandalizing a vacant building near where we live. Then in October, unknown to his father and I that he even had a girlfriend, he informs us his g/f is pregnant. So at the age of 15 he is going to become a father. It never once occured to me that this behaviour was related to ADHD until I took him back to mental health last month. Duh! How could I have not known?!?! I came home and researched ADHD on the net and was shocked, it was like the symptoms I read were directed solely at my son, it could have written about him.
In the interim I have had him tested for learning disabilities (as I really believed in my heart that it was a learning disability and not ADHD causing his poor success in school)and both sets of tests have indicated strongly that he is ADHD with no learning disabilty. Recommendations from both the School psycologists who did the testings and the mental health psycologist is to put him on medication.
I am so scared of making this decision, yet at the same time I feel so guilty because my stand on not medicating may have lead to this behaviour and his problems with life and school. Most of what I've read about stimulants is not favourable and I worry about long term health issues. I am just sick with worry and I can't help feeling the fear that no matter what decision I make regarding medication or no medication that either way, his life is doomed.
How do I get over this fear? And if I agree to the meds, how do I make peace with myself if he has a negative experience from it?
Totally lost and confused.
Ess
Posted by noa on January 20, 2003, at 8:22:36
In reply to Fear of Meds had screwed up my Son's life. (Long), posted by Essence on January 20, 2003, at 7:41:34
I am so sorry to hear all your troubles.
Is your son willing to try medication? Is he in therapy and willing to participate in therapy?
Posted by Dinah on January 20, 2003, at 9:17:56
In reply to Fear of Meds had screwed up my Son's life. (Long), posted by Essence on January 20, 2003, at 7:41:34
Essence, parenting is the toughest job around. Whenever something happens with our kids we're bound to blame ourselves. If you had put him on medications and things hadn't turned out right, you would have blamed yourself for that too. It's a natural reaction, I think.
It sounds as if you did what you thought was best for him. It's not as if you ignored the problem. You learned behavioral techniquest that worked for you. You brought him to see experts. You did what you thought was best for him. Parenting is full of decisions. You make the best one you can based on the information at the time. You aren't responsible for screwing up your son's life, except in the way that we all screw up our kids' lives.
Middle school is a difficult time for a lot of kids, and there is no way of knowing what sort of external pressures and hormonal changes were involved in his difficulties at that time.
Now, as Noa said is the time to look at your options now, based on what you know now. Medications, if your son will take them and if a doctor finds them appropriate, therapy, if your son will attend. Family therapy, maybe, because this has got to be difficult for all of you.
As hard as it is for any of us to do, don't blame yourself for the past. Just get some professional help to assess the current situation and determine the appropriate strategy.
My heart goes out to you and your son, and your whole family.
Dinah
Posted by Susang on January 20, 2003, at 12:16:56
In reply to Re: Fear of Meds had screwed up my Son's life. (Long) » Essence, posted by Dinah on January 20, 2003, at 9:17:56
> Essence, parenting is the toughest job around. Whenever something happens with our kids we're bound to blame ourselves. If you had put him on medications and things hadn't turned out right, you would have blamed yourself for that too. It's a natural reaction, I think.
>
> It sounds as if you did what you thought was best for him. It's not as if you ignored the problem. You learned behavioral techniquest that worked for you. You brought him to see experts. You did what you thought was best for him. Parenting is full of decisions. You make the best one you can based on the information at the time. You aren't responsible for screwing up your son's life, except in the way that we all screw up our kids' lives.
>
> Middle school is a difficult time for a lot of kids, and there is no way of knowing what sort of external pressures and hormonal changes were involved in his difficulties at that time.
>
> Now, as Noa said is the time to look at your options now, based on what you know now. Medications, if your son will take them and if a doctor finds them appropriate, therapy, if your son will attend. Family therapy, maybe, because this has got to be difficult for all of you.
>
> As hard as it is for any of us to do, don't blame yourself for the past. Just get some professional help to assess the current situation and determine the appropriate strategy.
>
> My heart goes out to you and your son, and your whole family.
>
> Dinah
I agree entirely with Dinah's post. I would just like to add that you may want to work closely with his school counselor and the school system in regards to options and accomodations for your son. I know that the role of a counselor varies from school to school but I would think your son's counselor could be a good resource and liason for you. It sounds like your son doesn't qualify for special education but working closely with his teachers and counselor (administrators too, if he is getting into trouble there) to develop a 504 plan can help him be more successful in school. Of course this is just one suggestion to add to the options of therapy, medication, etc.You might also check into any Youth At Risk programs available in your area. Where I live, the program is offered through the juvenile court system for youth who are not yet in trouble with the law but seem to be headed in that direction. Sounds scary, but the program here has provided some support to grateful parents while helping teenagers get their lives turned around.
It sounds like you are a very caring and concerned mom. Good luck to you and your son.
Susan
Posted by jay on January 20, 2003, at 22:21:38
In reply to Fear of Meds had screwed up my Son's life. (Long), posted by Essence on January 20, 2003, at 7:41:34
Just a couple notes of caution, as I have worked with many kids with various mental health disorders....and plenty of ADD/ADHD kids.
One is that even if Dx'ed with ADD/ADHD, if there are issues surrounding aggression and anger (as you suggested there where), starting just on a stimulant may cause problems, and/or be tricky. There are a couple of different med treatments, and one is the use of the med Clonidine, as well as the other anti-hypertensive drug Guanfacine. I don't know if these can be used in combination with stimulants. You should talk with a child psychiatrist about this.
If there are issues surrounding possible depression and anxiety, they should also be treated. Concurrent antidepressant and ADD med treatment is common, and besides, they both seem to help each other. (Like working 'synergistically'.)
The medications Depakote (brand name) as well as the atypical antipsychotics, and some other mood stabilizers may work for the aggression. Klonipin (clonazepam) in good doses is also sometimes used in these cases.
This may take a *long* time, and you most certainly should be guided by an expert in child psychiatry, not just any doctor in this case. Medications and their levels can be very, very tricky, and side effects are also difficult often to deal with. You want the best support and expert advice you can get.
I also am curious about your son's girlfriend's pregnancy. Has she, her parents and you talked with a doctor and/or nurse about this? Before anything continues...that should be your first step. There are options and choices in this situation.
Anything further we can help with..please keep in touch!
Best,
Jay
Posted by Essence on January 21, 2003, at 6:27:11
In reply to Re: Fear of Meds had screwed up my Son's life. (Long), posted by noa on January 20, 2003, at 8:22:36
Thanks Noa;
Yes, he is willing to try meds now. He is also willing to go into therapy, although 18 mos ago when I was taking him to mental health because of suicide threats, he refused to participate and was told not to come back until he was willing to co-operate and talk to them.
Ess
Posted by Essence on January 21, 2003, at 6:36:58
In reply to Re: Fear of Meds had screwed up my Son's life. (Long) » Essence, posted by Dinah on January 20, 2003, at 9:17:56
Thank Dinah;
Your right, parenting is the toughest job there is, at least it is concerning my youngest son. I am hoping my son will continue with the therapy he's in now, although he keeps telling me he hates to talk about himself and hates all the questions he's being asked and he really hates all the tests they're doing on him to assess whether or not he is also depressed or struggling with anxiety issues. My husband and I are also in counseling because of the situation with our son. It's really putting a strain on our marriage as we don't agree on how to handle our son. My husband has ADHD and uses his own successes in life as an indicator that our son will be fine. My husband is now 46 and has never been medicated to control his, he's just adapted and used his own coping skills. I guess in the beginning I held onto the same hope that our son would turn out like his father. Obviously that isn't going to help without intervention. Once again, thnx for the kind words and support.
Ess
Posted by Essence on January 21, 2003, at 6:47:46
In reply to To add to what Dinah said..., posted by Susang on January 20, 2003, at 12:16:56
Thanks Susang;
I am working closely with the high school, counselor and teachers and they are implementing modifications to his work load, etc. I have stressed to them that it's very important right now for my son to experience some successes in school in order to help bring his self-esteem back up. After 4 yrs of failures, he needs to feel something positive for a change. He is also now working with a resource teacher to help him in the areas that he is weak in. The teachers have even volunteered to stay after school and tutor him, but I have not been able to convince him yet to take them up their offer. The last thing he wants is to be in school any longer than he has to.
I don't think we have any Youth's at Risk programs here in Nova Scotia but I will certainly be checking that out.
Thanks for suggestions and support.
Ess
Posted by Essence on January 21, 2003, at 7:10:45
In reply to Re: Fear of Meds had screwed up my Son's life. (Long) » Essence, posted by jay on January 20, 2003, at 22:21:38
Hi Jay;
My Son will be seeing the psychiatrist after all the tests done by the mental health psychologist have been scored. It's just the way it works here, he will be referred to the child psychiatrist by the psychologist that is dealing with him.
I do know one thing for sure, I will never allow him to take an anti-psychotic. My own psych put me on one two years ago with disasterous results. It almost made me psychotic and then there is the worry of movement disorders associated with these meds. He feels bad enough about himself, if he developed a movement disorder as well, I'm sure that would be his complete undoing. Some movement disorders are quite gross.
I will research the meds you recommended,but alot of meds available in the US aren't available here in Canada. After doing some research on stimulants, my prefered choice would have been Adderall, however, it has not been approved in Canada yet.
Your right about this taking a long time. Appointments are a month apart and he's yet to be booked in with the psychiatrist, his next appt with Mental Health is in February with the psychologist. What a frustrating process.
As for the pregnancy, we've known about it since October, the baby is due mid-May. All options have been explored and his g/f did not want an abortion, (although this would have made everyone's lives easier, I am glad of her decision). They then discussed adoption and my Sister and her Husband were willing to adopt the baby and have it an open adoption where both my son and his g/f could have visitation rights, etc. His g/f changed her mind and is now keeping it. She is a cpl of years older than my son and will be 18 when the baby is born.
Thanks so much for your input Jay, I will keep you all posted as things move ahead.
Ess
Posted by kath on January 23, 2003, at 18:44:23
In reply to Re: Fear of Meds - Jay, posted by Essence on January 21, 2003, at 7:10:45
Hi Essence,
Please don't beat yourself up about what you did or didn't do.
You made your decisions with your son's best interests in mind.
My ADD son will be 19 in March. I didn't want him to take meds. He quit school in Grade 10, started smoking weed, smoking, drinking. That led to using acid, E, "Special K", and all the while I thought I would go crazy. We live in Ontario. When he was 15 I would sometimes not let him into the home unless my husband was home because I never knew what or WHO my son would be when he came in. He wrote strange, hateful things in huge letters in black marker on his walls; he hung stuffed animals by nooses & impaled them with pencils....he punched holes in his door with his fist; he poked holes in his door with a decorational sword. Our life was crazy. He wouldn't go to school. He wouldn't get a job. We said - you live here, you go to school or get a job. He said NO. By law, we had to provide him with the 'necessities of life'. So we provided him with a sleeping bag, pillow & our car. (This was in Oct). I called Children's Aid & the police. They said it was okay. I'd put soup in a thermos in the car for him. After 3 days he got a job...and got into the house again. It was sheer hell. Over the years, he was in day-school for drug-using kids; spent 5 weeks in rehab 'way up north in Ontario; got kicked out of our home various times...moved to B.C. 2 summers ago...lost his job there; lived on the streets.....did E & K & chrystal Meth. Tried Cocaine & crack.
All the while, I had to KNOW that it wasn't MY FAULT.
He moved back to Ontario Dec. 2001. Was on the streets this past summer since he wouldn't get a job. Came in in Sept & guess what? He now has a job in the kitchen in a fancy Italian restaurant; loves it; is polite & pleasant; doesn't do hard drugs any more, although he does smoke weed & drink sometimes.
I guess what I want to tell you is that things WILL change & there IS hope.
You sound like a great parent. never doubt that. Don't beat yourself up over the past. You've done the very best you knew how to.
I am sure that things will turn out okay for your son.
I also am sure that the support you get here can be very helpful.
I wonder if there are any parenting groups in Nova Scotia. My husband & I got great assistance from the Association of Parent Support Groups of Ontario. It was invaluable.
Where do you live in Nova Scotia? My husband & I were just there last summer & I fell in love with it. We both did. My daughter lived in Hampton, near Bridgetown & Middleton. What a gorgeous province. We'd like to visit there again this summer.
Best of luck Ess. Kath xoxo
Posted by Essence on January 24, 2003, at 6:36:20
In reply to Re: Fear of Meds - Jay-Essence, posted by kath on January 23, 2003, at 18:44:23
Kath;
Your son's path is the same path my son is now going down. Could we perhaps email, there is so much more going on with my son that I have not posted here, but that you have lived and I would really love to talk about it all with you. If this is ok with you, just drop me a line at the following email. Essence_60@yahoo.com Thanks so much in advance.
Ess
Posted by bookgurl99 on January 25, 2003, at 16:24:46
In reply to Fear of Meds had screwed up my Son's life. (Long), posted by Essence on January 20, 2003, at 7:41:34
Essence,
I'm sorry that your family is going through such a hard time right now.
I think you made what many parents would consider to be a good decision at the time. I think many of us who've faced the antidepressant treadmill would have agreed not to mess with your son's brain chemistry.
The thing is, you are not solely responsible for your kid's genetics and subsequent behavior. This is a situation that would not have even _had_ a medical diagnosis a generation ago, so I wouldn't feel guilty about your resistance.
I have hope for your son. My twin(non-identical) sister and I have both been dx'd with ADD. Neither of us have been on medications for it. Nonetheless, I was almost always a perfectly obedient child (genuinely true). My twin, on the other hand, really acted out after jr. high hit. This period of time lasted about 6 years. During that time, she stole my parent's car several times -- even once ending up in jail in Utah as she tried to run away to California. She made friends with the worst people possible, flunked some classes in H.S., and eventually flunked out of college and became pregnant at age 19.
When my twin had a child, her reckless behavior stopped. She slowly started to pull herself together. Now, 8 years later, she has a husband, two kids, and is working towards completing her Master's degree in computer science.
I really think the root of all this behavior was the low self-esteem that accompanies ADHD. Maybe with treatment she could have been successful earlier in life.
So, on one hand, your son's acting out is difficult, but on the other hand it may be useful because the symptom means he can learn about himself and get help now.
Hope things improve,
books :D
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