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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by omega man on June 16, 2002, at 19:31:22
I spent a great deal of my life with Schizo-affective disorder with the result that most of the friends I made had some type of similiar illness...although they did'nt seem ill to me..we were all creative people just trying to get trough it all..
Whatever it is within me..tenacity..excitibility or a family who work in Psychiatric professions..I figured a way out...(see my handle) ..now I'm able to do get back to having a life within groups of "normal" people..or should I say I came of the sick and have been getting in the stream...I don't quite know how to deal with those friends who can't quite get with this and still come round at small hours drunk..
No matter how I tried (for quite a while) I could'nt get through to em.... I have to get up..I don't have a sick ticket..and then it got to the stage where I say well youre not friends and try whatever to get rid of em..
I'm not talking groups just individuals...as most people with these problems are isolated and drink so they can get through it..
Its getting ridicolous now..and I would'nt write if I was'nt really worried..but I've been violent twice this week just to get rid of two particular people..(no connection between them)
Its just got to a stage where nothing I say works..and I attacked one of them with a hockey stick last week and recently I hit the other one real hard (something I've never done before)..and i'm not bully..these guys are way bigger than me...but when youre trapped in your home and your cage is rattled..
what else can you do.?..Phoning the police is not an option here ..
Hopefully this stage is over...but it really scares me..that I can get so crazy...do my actions seem sane ? is'nt violence like this a big red flag .? i'm not revelling in it..I make my move and wait to see if that person goes..and if they do..hey i'm happy..
would anyone (males only) have similiar experience..any less physical ..more strategic techniques for getting rid of problem callers ...
I'm not going to move house.
Posted by Phil on June 16, 2002, at 19:56:20
In reply to is my violence sane ?, posted by omega man on June 16, 2002, at 19:31:22
I would stop the violence now. If you can't, get help.
Otherwise, these people are not respecting your boundaries in your own home. There is nothing worse than a 3 in the morning visit or call from a friend who is in a very drunken state. Not many people put up with that even from real close friends. Maybe if they sober up you can let them know then that if it keeps happening, you will call the police. No hard feelings, you know...
I don't know about you but I like to sleep very much.
Posted by omega man on June 16, 2002, at 20:23:24
In reply to Re: is my violence sane ? » omega man, posted by Phil on June 16, 2002, at 19:56:20
i've tried all these things you mentioned...it feels like this is the only way to get through..and calling the police here is a ticket to more trouble...
I've noticed that because i'm so relaxed at this time..my rise to rage is very , very quick..
Posted by JonW on June 16, 2002, at 22:52:10
In reply to is my violence sane ?, posted by omega man on June 16, 2002, at 19:31:22
Hi omegaman,
How about giving your friends some omega 3 fatty acids ;-)
I've been violent but only when it *wasn't* justified, and I haven't been in any situations that did justify it. If you *absolutely* can't get the police involved, I'd say make some new friends. Seriously, they are not respecting you so don't return their calls and don't open the door when they come by.
What do you think?
Jon
Posted by omega man on June 16, 2002, at 23:10:16
In reply to Re: is my violence sane ? » omega man, posted by JonW on June 16, 2002, at 22:52:10
believe me I tried that too....you try suggesting to someone who won't even accept a prescription for prozac to take fish oil !! even practitioners don't believe it...I give them to everyone i see who need them..and they think i've lost it...i usually get them back when I've run out..
i'm hyper sensitive to noise...I can't ignore it..its like being in a cage thats rattled..when i'm trying to sleep...and its gone past rejecting them as friends (by the way this is not a group just lost individuals)To be honest I reckon what I did has done the trick..I just got to be carefull not to let them back in my life when the inevatible apologies..and three months of good behaviour..being very respectfull etc etc..
its drink..it makes people agressive...affects their memory....this has been going on for quite a while...and I had to resort to these measures..not had to...I just lost it..thats something you can't control when backed into a corner..
could you ? is'nt this a matter of self defence ?
Posted by IsoM on June 16, 2002, at 23:39:56
In reply to is my violence sane ?, posted by omega man on June 16, 2002, at 19:31:22
Hey, I know you asked for a guy's experience but I'd like to ask something, if I could. Besides, I grew up with 3 brothers, no sisters, played with boys mostly as I grew up, & had 3 sons, no girls. I'm told I think more like a man than a woman except where emotions are important.
The force you used on these guys that were bothering you - do you consider it excessive, or was that amount of force (& the hockey stick) needed to get through to men bigger than you & drunk besides?
Did you feel like you were out of control while doing this? Did you just 'lose it', go amok?
I'm around some real gentle, peaceful guys (sons & their friends) who don't ever look for trouble & do go out of their way to avoid it, but I know if they're really pushed into a corner, they'd defend themselves & it has happened a couple of times. It's not a thing to be proud of & neither them nor I would advocate violent force, but honestly, to expect a man *never* to respond like that is unrealistic. Doesn't mean that it gives any one an out for their actions, but I think it's only human to respond when pushed too far.
If you did 'lose it' though, & used excessive violence, it may be a good thing to bring up to your doctor next time you see him. Only you can judge your actions really, not others here.
Posted by wendy b. on June 16, 2002, at 23:53:09
In reply to is my violence sane ?, posted by omega man on June 16, 2002, at 19:31:22
Golly, reading the first 3/4 of your post, I felt bad for ya', and was going to refer you to Andrew Solomon's book, _The Noonday Demon_ , where he often gets pretty personal, and describes his own depressions, reactions, medications, perceptions... There is a description fairly early on in the book where he describes his very angry and violent outbursts, breaking his lover's nose in a fit of rage, etc. Very engrossing reading... I had to read it over several times and reassess my opinion of Solomon (came to the conclusion that he was astoundingly honest, more than he had any 'obligation' to be), and then think about my own experiences with anger and my own expressions of violence. And I thought it might be a solace to you to read that you weren't in bad company.But then you say:
> would anyone (males only) have similiar experience..any less physical ..more strategic techniques for getting rid of problem callers ...
Males only? As though guys were the only ones with valid opinions about dealing with this kind of behavior? (Nice girls don't!)So, well, I give up... What can I say? That I have never taken a hockey stick to anybody, never put a brick through someone's windshield, etc., but I sure as hell would have liked to at some particular times in my life, and well, I've been socialized not to, and so I didn't, and so, don't bother listening to me. I have nothing important to say on this subject...
(Read the book...)
Wendy
Posted by omega man on June 17, 2002, at 2:07:43
In reply to Re: is my violence sane? - an ironic response (?) » omega man, posted by wendy b. on June 16, 2002, at 23:53:09
I'm well aware there are a great deal of females more inteligent than me..and stronger..
how is it possible for a female to create an idea of how to deal with a problem male and then re-apply that solution to a male dealing with a male when in that real case there will be no allowances made for the gender difference which is something basic and instinctive.
its an impossible hypothetical..the female can't imagine a real solution because she does'nt have the experience of being male...
Posted by JonW on June 17, 2002, at 3:19:51
In reply to Re: is my violence sane ? » JonW, posted by omega man on June 16, 2002, at 23:10:16
> To be honest I reckon what I did has done the trick..I just got to be carefull not to let them back in my life when the inevatible apologies..and three months of good behaviour..being very respectfull etc etc..
>
> its drink..it makes people agressive...affects their memory....this has been going on for quite a while...and I had to resort to these measures..not had to...I just lost it..thats something you can't control when backed into a corner..
>
> could you ? is'nt this a matter of self defence ?Exactly, don't feel guilty about defending your own home! They have disrespected you and if they then corner you, it's only natural to fight or flight. This is where the police could have avoided all of this.
If these guys are part of a life that is significant you leave behind for your own mental health, then it's important you stand behind your actions and words and not let these people back into your life. You may actually get some good advice from a local support group or something. And don't feel bad as long as you didn't break any bones or anything. They pushed you into a corner and into "fight" mode. It's go time form that point.
Jon
p.s. I've only been in 2 or 3 fights in my life and I always feel so guilty or when I see other people fight it makes me sick to my stomach. But yet I'm also proud when I'm the victor. Am I a sick person?
Posted by wendy b. on June 17, 2002, at 13:18:03
In reply to Re: is my violence sane? - an ironic response (?) » wendy b., posted by omega man on June 17, 2002, at 2:07:43
Omega man,
It is my belief that our gender identities do not lie in our biology. The fact that you have penis and testicles does not mean that you *necessarily* identify with males, and think like other males, as such. If it did, why are there cross-dressers and transvestites and people of both sexes having elaborate operations to change their sex organs from "male" to "female," and vice-versa? Because they believe the biology we are born with is not our destiny, and that our identities do not reside in our sex organs.
I may have a uterus, but I can change my gender identity at will, just as you can. I don't need a penis to think like a "real" man, whatever that is. If I were a lesbian, would that make me more "like a man," and then qualify me to comment on this thread? Or does being a lesbian make me think more "like a woman," and then leave me out?
What if you posed the question to the "man" in my town who rides around the streets every single day on his bike, collecting returnables? "He" dresses in beautiful skirts and stockings showing his very lovely legs, and wears high heels and paints his face with eye-shadow and bright red lipstick. What would "he" advise you about violence and hitting people with hockey sticks? I couldn't imagine! Just as you can't imagine what a "real" woman like me would say about your predicament (no pun intended...)
So why are my comments "naturally" banned from this discussion? I just want to say, I feel badly for you, and don't necessarily need or want to comment on your questions. But I feel the need, somehow, to explain this point of view and share some insights. If it's not helping you, or is detracting from the discussion, I'm sorry and I'll stop...
Sincerely,
Wendy
> I'm well aware there are a great deal of females more inteligent than me..and stronger..
>
> how is it possible for a female to create an idea of how to deal with a problem male and then re-apply that solution to a male dealing with a male when in that real case there will be no allowances made for the gender difference which is something basic and instinctive.
>
> its an impossible hypothetical..the female can't imagine a real solution because she does'nt have the experience of being male...
Posted by JonW on June 17, 2002, at 15:08:34
In reply to Re: Violence and Gender » omega man, posted by wendy b. on June 17, 2002, at 13:18:03
> So why are my comments "naturally" banned from this discussion? I just want to say, I feel badly for you, and don't necessarily need or want to comment on your questions. But I feel the need, somehow, to explain this point of view and share some insights. If it's not helping you, or is detracting from the discussion, I'm sorry and I'll stop...
>
> Sincerely,
>
> WendyYeah, I agree that he could benefit from the opinions of both inies and outies... :) Even those who *can't* relate to responding the way he did may be able to offer some insight that he assumed they wouldn't have. Maybe it would have been better to say something like "I'm particularly interested in how other men have handled this type of situation." Which is not to say women can't respond or don't have much to offer to this thread, but rather, that in *general* men are more violent than women and so would be more likely to relate. I can't certainly understand seeking out those that are more likely to relate. Anyway, I only have a nickel, so can I get 3 cents back? ;-)
Jon
Posted by omega man on June 17, 2002, at 17:35:25
In reply to Re: Violence and Gender » omega man, posted by wendy b. on June 17, 2002, at 13:18:03
really i'm not a very strong type..so I was trying to weed out the influence of female responses...which by and large would'nt possess the sort of clever strategies that your typical male lives with because the pressure we put on each other exists 24/7.
I don't know what a "real" woman is to be honest..I know there are females who posess stronger thinking styles than myself, and are more focussed and defensive..perhaps better fighters..most of my girlfriends have been stronger thinkers than me..but they could'nt have the experience of being a male in a male environment..
yes everything you say makes sense..but i'd like to ask you ..how can a female understand how to deal with this type of problem ?
Male environments are by the deepest nature..one of constant pressure and dominance ..when a female enters a "Typical" male environment the structure can become destabilized..this has been well observed...its not an excuse for men to run the world..because quite frankly I think we've just F89ed it up...
By saying what I did this was trying to elicit the sort of psychological wisdom similiar to someone who's been holed up in a "jail" type scenario..which is how things have felt..what woman could understand this ?.
perhaps a lesbian who hid her gender..but thats extreme..
..allowances will always be made for females..thats just the way things are..
Posted by omega man on June 17, 2002, at 17:44:28
In reply to Re: is my violence sane ? » omega man, posted by JonW on June 17, 2002, at 3:19:51
thanks..
i'm not really looking for recognition..althouh like you say theres a feeling of winning..but thats the situation that created the drive to beat it...not the same as a violent person looking for a situation...
Really I don't want to go down these roads..but i've noticed with certain personalities ..like the guy I took a stick to..the only thing they understand is the extremity of elimination..and I know another thing..if I had'nt done it..he would still be hassling me because he would not understand anything but the terms it would take him to know whats what
..I got a call on my answer machine the other night from him denying he broke my window..to me hes just looking to argue but from the tone of his voice..he definetely will not hassle me in that state again..
Posted by shar on June 17, 2002, at 20:51:31
In reply to Re: is my violence sane? - an ironic response (?) » wendy b., posted by omega man on June 17, 2002, at 2:07:43
My 2 cents on the issue, and I don't want to debate, or attack, just voicing MY opinion about the logic employed.
I am somewhat mystified about the real question here. Is it that O.Man wants info on dealing with annoying, potentially violent males--which *oodles* of women could provide for him--or only how other men deal with annoying, potentially violent males?
It strikes me as odd if it is the latter because O.Man seems to want to look at *alternatives* to what he has done when confronted by a man who is harassing him. If so, why ask only males, who are unlikely to have alternative views, steeped as they are in the same male culture and tradition. I'd say that many of the potential responses that O.Man ruled out would have included some alternative views.
Point really is, women are faced a LOT with harassing, potentially violent spouses, lovers, brothers, fathers, sons, and other males; banging on the door at night, coming to their place of work, cornering them in the kitchen or the car. Many women have been there, done that. Does it make sense to ignore the fact that they've been to the war, because they don't usually stand up to pee?
Ah, well. To each his or her own.
Shar
> how is it possible for a female to create an idea of how to deal with a problem male
>
> its an impossible hypothetical..the female can't imagine a real solution because she does'nt have the experience of being male...(But she does have the experience of dealing with the problem male.)
>Maybe it would have been better to say something like "I'm particularly interested in how other men have handled this type of situation." Which is not to say women can't respond or don't have much to offer to this thread, but rather, that in *general* men are more violent than women and so would be more likely to relate.
(But it is women, very often, who bear the brunt of this violence, live with it, and deal with it.)
> I'm well aware there are a great deal of females more inteligent than me..and stronger..
>
> how is it possible for a female to create an idea of how to deal with a problem male and then re-apply that solution to a male dealing with a male when in that real case there will be no allowances made for the gender difference which is something basic and instinctive.
>
> its an impossible hypothetical..the female can't imagine a real solution because she does'nt have the experience of being male...
Posted by omega man on June 18, 2002, at 13:33:05
In reply to Re: is violence sane? The paradigm., posted by shar on June 17, 2002, at 20:51:31
I was brought up in a matriarchial environment...the reason I have this problems is because I have been using female approaches..
This is what happens when men behave using female strategies..
A certain thing exists in the male psyche..call it laziness..a sort of ever decreasing converging "state" ..I think testosterone does this ..What I have been through is akin to "gay" bashing...the difference being that it was just the context of being brought up by females..mother and grandmother ..
Those people got a shock when they saw how little love I had for them, in fact an ever increasing distolerance was growing within me.. when you send out female behaviours you tend to attract bullies...
I plan to get rid of these female behaviours..they've brought me nothing but trouble.
This is the end of the thread.
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