![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Penny on March 2, 2002, at 21:03:17
Just a question I continually struggle with and figured that this might be a good place to pose it...
The concept of happiness is extremely elusive to me.
Is anyone ever truly happy? I don't mean can they experience periods of joy or can they have fun occasionally, but are there folks out there who love life for what it is and are satisfied with that? Who have their ups and downs but rarely, if ever, see life as something that might not be worth it?
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 2, 2002, at 21:11:53
In reply to happiness?, posted by Penny on March 2, 2002, at 21:03:17
Penny;
There is a way to have true happiness. It requirers something on our part to have and to keep it. It is a peace beyond all understanding. It is a love that allows you to love your enemies. It is a overcomming of yourself and the world. This great happiness is not found on this earth, but you can have it now while you are here. You can be of any situation and there is no price to pay. It is free. Do you want to hear more?
Lou
Posted by Penny on March 2, 2002, at 21:47:48
In reply to Re: happiness? » Penny, posted by Lou Pilder on March 2, 2002, at 21:11:53
Certainly. I've heard so many takes on the subject, but none that for me have been lasting. I try telling myself that a large part of the problem is this continual depression, but I really don't think I've ever experienced happiness, not even as a little girl.
Posted by sid on March 3, 2002, at 0:06:05
In reply to happiness?, posted by Penny on March 2, 2002, at 21:03:17
> The concept of happiness is extremely elusive to me.
Me too !
> Is anyone ever truly happy? I don't mean can they experience periods of joy or can they have fun occasionally, but are there folks out there who love life for what it is and are satisfied with that? Who have their ups and downs but rarely, if ever, see life as something that might not be worth it?I think I have been happy for a few months now. I feel good, without noise or flashiness. It is very simple, very quiet and calm. It's like I had been looking for myself all my life, and I finally found myself. At times I felt like life was not worth it, or that I was not worthy of a good life. Now I feel I belong to my time and place, and I dream of good things happening to me again.
Last fall, I was struggling with dysthymia, the fear of another episode of major depression and anxiety. In many ways, my situation is no better than it was a few months ago: I still have financial problems and lots of uncertainty in my professional and personal life - I don't even know in which country I'll end up living. My life is still on shaky grounds, but these days, I don't worry about it. I do what I have to do for things to get better for me, and I enjoy doing it (working, basically, to catch up on lost times). I have confidence that whatever happens, like a cat, I'll get back on my feet and won't break my back. I have learned so much and I am so strong. The very fact that I'm still alive is proof of that to me. I made it! I used not to believe in God, but now I wonder. I was so desperate at times, I did pray for a better life, and it's here now. I'm strong, but I wonder if I was not helped by someone else... wow. I would NEVER have written something like that before. But today, I thought about that... did God answer my prayers? I'm not one bit religious, I don't belive in organized religions, so don't get me wrong here... I'm just wondering about something I thought I had rejected forever.
I enjoy life, short moments of it, everyday. My father died of lung cancer 10 years ago, desperately trying to breathe with lungs that had become useless. Since then, I've developed this thing where I relax, breath in and out, and I enjoy just that: the miracle of life through breathing; the comfort of a healthy breath. Also, I started a viniyoga class 2 months ago, and we have many breathing exercises and techniques that also make me feel very good - a little island to myself, quiet and pleasant, inside my head, doing good to my body and mind at once. Anyway - don't want to get too weird here, but yeah, I think I'm happy. I haven't complained about anything except my sleep pattern (side effect from Effexor XR) in the last couple of months, so I must happy. I used to complain all the time! I take pleasure in many small things too. I feel like a sponge, taking it all in, after so many years of drought. My new found happiness is not directly contingent on events or other people either; it's part of me. For the first time in my life, at 34, I feel grounded. I know who I am, what I stand for, what I enjoy, the kind of life I want, I started making projects again because I feel like it, not because "I should do so." I love it, and I sure hope it lasts. I do everything I can so it does. People ask me: how are you? And I say: very well, thank you. The good thing is that, for the first time of my life, I mean it.
Like you, I also used to wonder if anyone was happy. Now I know it exists, I know what it feels like. I also realize I always was close to it, but not quite there... it's hard to explain. It feels natural even though it's completely new to me. I always wondered how people could be so cruel as to have children and put them through life. Now I see how life can be a wonderful gift, even if it's not forever, even if it's not perfect. And again, the feeling I have now is within me. I was shooting for that and I'm there: happiness no matter what. Hard times, yes, but happiness nevertheless.
I must sound as cheesy as I used to think happy people sounded. So be it! ;-)
- sid
Posted by Anna Laura on March 3, 2002, at 1:51:29
In reply to happiness?, posted by Penny on March 2, 2002, at 21:03:17
> Just a question I continually struggle with and figured that this might be a good place to pose it...
>
> The concept of happiness is extremely elusive to me.
>
> Is anyone ever truly happy? I don't mean can they experience periods of joy or can they have fun occasionally, but are there folks out there who love life for what it is and are satisfied with that? Who have their ups and downs but rarely, if ever, see life as something that might not be worth it?I have been happy till the age of 21, when i sank in to the black hole of major depression because of severe stress.
I know what happiness is about: the memory of it keeps me going. I remember i had problems and insecurities like evrybody else did, still the happy feeling was always there to comfort me, every single day. It was like a blessing : i always felt grateful for it and never took it for granted, even if it was constant and seemed everending.
It was there as i wake up every morning: predictable like the sun rising.
The only thing that made me a little sad it was that i wanted to share this feeling with others: i felt a little bit lonely and isolated because of my constant elation.
It wasn't easy to cheer people up as many wouldn't understand what my intentions were.
I have been misunderstood many times as men thought i wanted to get laid and women thought i was crazy: they both felt fine with me but treated me like a clown.
I was so naive back then! I didn't realize how much envy was around me, plus I believed happiness was easy to reach as it was for me.
I just thought most people wouldn't bother
with it as they were engaged in pursuing objectives and goals i couldn't understand.
May be i was childlish and sure i looked rather stupid, but i'd do anything to regain that feeling: it sure made me think life was worth living.
Happiness is very powerful: one day of bliss can wash away thousands of days of despair.Still waiting.....
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 3, 2002, at 6:11:31
In reply to Re: happiness? » Lou Pilder, posted by Penny on March 2, 2002, at 21:47:48
Penny;
To be happy, we are talking about something that does not mean that you win the lottery? I mean that we are looking for an inner peace and a joy in life, not just good circumstances financially , etc.?
Lou
Posted by Penny on March 4, 2002, at 8:33:32
In reply to Re: happiness? » Penny, posted by Lou Pilder on March 3, 2002, at 6:11:31
No...I'm talking about true happiness. Life with all it's ups and downs, but never wishing you were dead or didn't have to deal with these things anymore. Being able to enjoy the ups and knowing they'll return when you are down. Having hope that doesn't cease. A sense of wellbeing.
I've tried to find this in various places. At times I thought I was close, but it didn't last. I am trying to follow my heart in my career, in my personal life, in my religious life...I volunteer with children, I'm preparing for a career change. I went on a pilgrimage last spring that moved me, but, like I said, the feeling didn't last.
My therapist tells me that happiness is something that won't be dependent on my circumstances. She tells me that if I'm not happy with life as it is for me now, doing _____ isn't going to make me happy either. And I know she's right.
> Penny;
> To be happy, we are talking about something that does not mean that you win the lottery? I mean that we are looking for an inner peace and a joy in life, not just good circumstances financially , etc.?
> Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 4, 2002, at 9:00:54
In reply to Re: happiness? » Lou Pilder, posted by Penny on March 4, 2002, at 8:33:32
Penny;
I an glad that you responded to my post. We both have the same asparations. And it can be found. I have found it.
Lou
Posted by Penny on March 4, 2002, at 9:56:45
In reply to Re: happiness? » Penny, posted by sid on March 3, 2002, at 0:06:05
Sid,
I think what you said is beautiful.
To what do you attribute this new found happiness?
Funny that you said this has made you re-question the existence of God. I've believed in God for most of my life, and it's only lately that I'm starting to question His existence. I wasn't raised in a church, but 'became a Christian' at age 20 because I thought I had stumbled upon something that made life make sense. I still believe in the existence of a higher power, but really really question whether the rest of it applies to me anymore. I pray/talk to God, ask for His help, but it's like I don't feel Him anymore. Not that it's ever been consistent. In fact, I often describe the way that I feel when I'm having my worst times as "godless." No hope, no light. I'm sure most of the folks who post here can relate.
I guess my problem is that my Christian friends tell me that He is still there for me. That He hasn't stopped caring. But I wonder, if He's so all powerful, then why can't I feel Him???
Oh...for the sleep problems (I have taken Effexor too!), my new pdoc told me to take 3mg of melatonin a night, about an hour before bed. It doesn't exactly make you sleepy, but after about 2 weeks will start to correct your sleep cycle/circadian rhythm. He said to make sure you get it from a reputable source, though, not just your general drug store. I use a brand from GNC.
> I think I have been happy for a few months now. I feel good, without noise or flashiness. It is very simple, very quiet and calm. It's like I had been looking for myself all my life, and I finally found myself. At times I felt like life was not worth it, or that I was not worthy of a good life. Now I feel I belong to my time and place, and I dream of good things happening to me again.
>
> Last fall, I was struggling with dysthymia, the fear of another episode of major depression and anxiety. In many ways, my situation is no better than it was a few months ago: I still have financial problems and lots of uncertainty in my professional and personal life - I don't even know in which country I'll end up living. My life is still on shaky grounds, but these days, I don't worry about it. I do what I have to do for things to get better for me, and I enjoy doing it (working, basically, to catch up on lost times). I have confidence that whatever happens, like a cat, I'll get back on my feet and won't break my back. I have learned so much and I am so strong. The very fact that I'm still alive is proof of that to me. I made it! I used not to believe in God, but now I wonder. I was so desperate at times, I did pray for a better life, and it's here now. I'm strong, but I wonder if I was not helped by someone else... wow. I would NEVER have written something like that before. But today, I thought about that... did God answer my prayers? I'm not one bit religious, I don't belive in organized religions, so don't get me wrong here... I'm just wondering about something I thought I had rejected forever.
>
> I enjoy life, short moments of it, everyday. My father died of lung cancer 10 years ago, desperately trying to breathe with lungs that had become useless. Since then, I've developed this thing where I relax, breath in and out, and I enjoy just that: the miracle of life through breathing; the comfort of a healthy breath. Also, I started a viniyoga class 2 months ago, and we have many breathing exercises and techniques that also make me feel very good - a little island to myself, quiet and pleasant, inside my head, doing good to my body and mind at once. Anyway - don't want to get too weird here, but yeah, I think I'm happy. I haven't complained about anything except my sleep pattern (side effect from Effexor XR) in the last couple of months, so I must happy. I used to complain all the time! I take pleasure in many small things too. I feel like a sponge, taking it all in, after so many years of drought. My new found happiness is not directly contingent on events or other people either; it's part of me. For the first time in my life, at 34, I feel grounded. I know who I am, what I stand for, what I enjoy, the kind of life I want, I started making projects again because I feel like it, not because "I should do so." I love it, and I sure hope it lasts. I do everything I can so it does. People ask me: how are you? And I say: very well, thank you. The good thing is that, for the first time of my life, I mean it.
>
> Like you, I also used to wonder if anyone was happy. Now I know it exists, I know what it feels like. I also realize I always was close to it, but not quite there... it's hard to explain. It feels natural even though it's completely new to me. I always wondered how people could be so cruel as to have children and put them through life. Now I see how life can be a wonderful gift, even if it's not forever, even if it's not perfect. And again, the feeling I have now is within me. I was shooting for that and I'm there: happiness no matter what. Hard times, yes, but happiness nevertheless.
>
> I must sound as cheesy as I used to think happy people sounded. So be it! ;-)
>
> - sid
Posted by Penny on March 4, 2002, at 10:12:54
In reply to Re: happiness? » Penny, posted by Lou Pilder on March 4, 2002, at 9:00:54
I'm glad to know that someone has...But how???
thanks.> Penny;
> I an glad that you responded to my post. We both have the same asparations. And it can be found. I have found it.
> Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 4, 2002, at 10:18:22
In reply to Re: happiness? » Lou Pilder, posted by Penny on March 4, 2002, at 10:12:54
Penny,dear
I was in the exact place that you were at in my life. I was in depression that was so awful that death was a consideration over life with that depression. Like you, I felt let down. I asked myself, if there is a God, then why am I in this cast down condition? Why has God forsaken me?
I found the answer to that question.
Lou
Posted by Penny on March 4, 2002, at 10:25:07
In reply to Re: happiness? » Penny, posted by Lou Pilder on March 4, 2002, at 10:18:22
Lou,
Thank you for your kind responses to my question. So, are you saying I have to answer this one for myself? Is happiness an individualized thing for each of us? There's no 'one right answer'?
Penny
> Penny,dear
> I was in the exact place that you were at in my life. I was in depression that was so awful that death was a consideration over life with that depression. Like you, I felt let down. I asked myself, if there is a God, then why am I in this cast down condition? Why has God forsaken me?
> I found the answer to that question.
> Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 4, 2002, at 10:28:18
In reply to Re: happiness? » Lou Pilder, posted by Penny on March 4, 2002, at 10:25:07
Penny,
No, I am not saying that you have to answer that for yourself. There is an answer, and the answer is for all. It is not an individual thing.
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 4, 2002, at 16:08:22
In reply to Re: happiness? » Lou Pilder, posted by Penny on March 4, 2002, at 10:25:07
Penny;
I have overcome depression. But I think that if we talk about this on this board, that we could have a lot of misunderstandings due to language differences and literary skills. I would very much like to share my knowlrge about depression and overcommming it with you . Feel free to email me at louelsa@cs.com so that we won't have misunderstandings. I understand that most people on this board are uncomfortable with emailing. But if that bothers you, go to a library and use their computer and that way, it will be confidential.
Lou
Posted by sid on March 4, 2002, at 20:43:51
In reply to Re: happiness? » Lou Pilder, posted by Penny on March 4, 2002, at 8:33:32
> I've tried to find this in various places.
It's within you. It's a state of mind, quiet but strong. So don't look too far! It's very simple too.
I am very sure of it anytime I do yoga and meditate for example. Find something, often, that helps you be in harmony with your body, your mind and your environment while realising it and appreciating it (walking in the forest, praying, meditating, appreciating a beautiful landscape or sunrise or sunset each day). For me it started with sunsets... Seeing beautiful ones from time to time is worth living for I find. I try to find moments that I appreciate that much as often as I can - I create some moments when I do yoga.
That's happiness to me. Knowing who I am, where I am, how I feel, loving nature (the little spirituality I feel is very linked with nature) and feeling in harmony with the many many people and things that surround me.
With time, it became a more permanent thing... Mind you, my meds helped, but it's important to create the opportunities to feel happy too. To think about it, realize it, etc... I don't wake up in the morning anymore with my first thought being "oh, no, not another day." That's pretty amazing. Now it's "well, let's see what this day will be about; wow, it's beautiful outside!"
I hope you "find" it (turn it on rather, since I'm convinced it's inside of us).
- sid
Posted by sid on March 4, 2002, at 23:38:10
In reply to Re: happiness? » sid, posted by Penny on March 4, 2002, at 9:56:45
> Sid,
>
> I think what you said is beautiful.
>
> To what do you attribute this new found happiness?Well, I attribute it to many things I've done in the past 7 years, after my first episode of major depression at 27 years old:
- psychotherapy, lots of it, over many years, with breaks in between; generally 12 weeks at a time, plus twice longer term (mixture of talk therapy and cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT));
- reading about depression, dysthymia (which I had since I was 13 years old), CBT, co-dependence and grief;
- acupuncture, which was wonderful to help get out of my n-th episode (2nd or 3rd? I'm not even sure how many I had in total);
- moving back home, where I grew up. Even though it was not the best career choice at the time (last year), I felt I needed to do it. I found parts of myself back that I had forgotten about - playfulness especially... I may move back away next year as I am back on the career track, but I am glad I came back, it did help to find myself again.Over the years I became better slowly, except for the acupunture which had a big-step effect on me. Then last fall, I realized that I had no more symptoms of major depression, but the dysthymia was still there. I had done all the psychotherapy I cared to do at that point, and I decided to see a medical doctor to see if meds could help. She said yes, let's try Effexor XR. She made me realize I had an anxiety problem too, which I was not aware of before. After 2 weeks at 37.5mg a day, I felt a bit better, especially more carefree, less anxious, than before. I've been on 75mg a day for 2 months now, and I feel the best I've felt ever in my adult life. No sign of dysthymia (after 21 years of it!!!), no anxiety. Also, to help control my anxiety, now and when I try to get off the meds, in about one year, I started to do viniyoga about two months ago. I love it, it makes me take conscience of my hapiness: the simple pleasure of existing, being there, breathing freely. I never thought such a simple thing could bring me so much. I'm realizing now that I don't need much to be happy -I don't have much and I am happy! Well, I have a lot, but I have many financial problems and uncertainty, no boyfriend, no kids. And I am happy. I trust that things will get better; I put almost everything aside to try and get better, so now I have some catching up to do. Some living to do!
So overall, I'd say this newfound happiness is due to all the efforts I've made over time to know myself better, to learn new techniques that help me get out of depression and STAY out of it (CBT techniques and more recently, yoga). Also to a wonderful acupuncturist. And more recently to my doc and Effexor XR. It was a gradual process though... all I've mentioned here contributed to make me feel better. But only recently, with the most recent, Effexor-lead improvements, have I thought "this has got to be it." My new wonderings about God... well, I have a friend who says that God puts people on her path that are crucial to her life at different times... I have met people that were blessings at different times; they had a crucial role in my recovery, and I'm thinking that perhaps my friend's views apply here. These people are:
- especially one of my many therapists (6 total, some students doing internships since I had no money and got some services through school), whom I initially though could never help me; I'm a Caucasian female and he was a Japanese male - I almost cancelled the first appointment because I thought our differences would make it impossible for him to help me. I now realize he had a huge impact on me. He was a university prof in psychology, very intellectual, and I was a PhD student (in something else), so it turns out that his take on things appealed greatly to me. He made me read some journal articles, talked to me as if I was one of his students at times. And then other times, he was sensitive enough to say one thing that hit the spot and made me feel not so alone. I recently remembered he had said that he practiced yoga to help him cope with stress and hardships. I decided to try viniyoga for my anxiety 2 months ago, so years after I stopped seeing him, he still influences me.
- my wonderful acupuncturist, who lives far far away from where I now am. If God did not put her on my path, I'd at least call this a wonderful synchronicity. She was salutary many many times, as a person and as an acupunturist. She could make my modd change, with her needles, within about 15 minutes. It was amazing. I have not found any other acupuncturist that I find as good as she was since I moved.
- my new doc, who was recommended to me by some co-workers, and who happens to think a lot like me.
- my yoga teacher.After all this, I am sure of one thing: I am incredibly strong. This gives me confidence in my future. I got through it, even though I was desperate at times and thought I would not make it. I continue making efforts to make sure I am well for as long as possible. After all this, I think of prevention every day. I am careful with my health, because I know how precious it is.
That's how I got through it and found happiness. I hope it lasts!!!
One thing I would change if I lived through it again: I would take meds sooner. I'd do eberything else I mentioned here too, but I now think that meds have a catalytic impact on the recovery process. I was scared of taking them before, and so I tried my best to recover while NOT taking meds. With my past 3.5 months on Effexor XR, I think that with a good, caring doctor, one should not be scared of ADs.
> Oh...for the sleep problems (I have taken Effexor too!), my new pdoc told me to take 3mg of melatonin a night, about an hour before bed.
Thanks for the info! I'll talk to my doc about it.
Good luck in your quest... trust that you will find what you're looking for.
- sid
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.