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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on December 15, 2001, at 8:28:14
My skin burns because of the sadness oozing out with my sweat. My upper lips burns from the sadness that comes out with each breath. My stomach is so full of sadness that there is no room for food.
Posted by robinibor on December 15, 2001, at 14:05:28
In reply to So sad., posted by Dinah on December 15, 2001, at 8:28:14
I'm sorry. If you think it might help and you would be willing to send me your address (through our website at http://www.undoingdepression.com), I will send you a copy of Undoing Depression.
Robin> My skin burns because of the sadness oozing out with my sweat. My upper lips burns from the sadness that comes out with each breath. My stomach is so full of sadness that there is no room for food.
Posted by Mair on December 15, 2001, at 18:12:02
In reply to So sad., posted by Dinah on December 15, 2001, at 8:28:14
Dinah - take Robin up on her offer; it's a good book although if you're like me when I'm most depressed, you maybe don't feel like reading or can't concentrate enough.
I'm really sorry to see you suffer as much as you are now. I tried the other day to post a message to you on the thread I started on feeling disconnected and did something stupid (I'm a computer illiterate) and lost the message. I think this is the second time this may have happened with posts to you.
I know you've been depressed for awhile but do you think it's worse now because of the holidays? I go into a slide every year at this time and I can feel myself sliding now. I think I just get so easily overwelmed trying to pick gifts out, get my house cleaned, work, wrap etc.
Did you ever get a chance to talk to your therapist about his holiday schedule. Are you still upset that you might not be able to see him?
Do you think maybe you need to revisit whatever meds you're on? When I get very depressed meds changes for some reason is the last thing I think about.Keep posting. It can't hurt. I really agree with what you said in the other thread about how you wouldn't communicate better with people around you if you didn't have this Board. That's true for me too.
Take care of yourself
Mair
PS - how old is your son?
Posted by akc on December 15, 2001, at 19:00:20
In reply to So sad., posted by Dinah on December 15, 2001, at 8:28:14
Dinah,
I just wanted to let you know that I am thinking of you and care about you.
akc
Posted by Dinah on December 15, 2001, at 19:46:22
In reply to Re: So sad. » Dinah, posted by Mair on December 15, 2001, at 18:12:02
Thanks Mair,
I did see my therapist and it made matters worse. I tried to suggest procedural changes and he was unwilling even to look at his schedule before seeing me so that he could give me a definite time at the beginning of the session without my having to wait like a helpless child as he figured out when he would be available. He was angry with me and asked that really stupid question "Why are you choosing to upset yourself and make yourself miserable."
I went home and cut more badly than usual for me -used a razor blade. Now I feel really ashamed.
My next appt is Fri. evening and I am afraid that if it goes badly I will have a horrific Christmas. I am barely holding it together today with an extra dose of Klonopin, and as that wears off my skin is starting to burn again. I've hardly been able to eat since this all started.
My son is an adorable five year old and I really don't want to mess up Christmas for him.
Thanks for listening.
Dinah
Posted by Dinah on December 15, 2001, at 19:48:05
In reply to Re: So sad. » Dinah, posted by akc on December 15, 2001, at 19:00:20
> Dinah,
>
> I just wanted to let you know that I am thinking of you and care about you.
>
> akcThanks akc,
You are in what few thoughts I can muster today, too.
Take care,
Dinah
Posted by Mair on December 15, 2001, at 23:32:46
In reply to Re: So sad. » Mair, posted by Dinah on December 15, 2001, at 19:46:22
> " He was angry with me and asked that really stupid question "Why are you choosing to upset yourself and make yourself miserable."
Sorry but this guy sounds clueless. How could he suggest that this is a choice you are making? What reward are you getting out of feeling the way you do? Of course, viewing it in this manner means that he doesn't have to look at his role in your misery. How long have you been seeing him? How often do you see him? Maybe he just used really poor phrasing and would be mortified if he reflected a little about the literal meaning of what he said to you.
On a brighter note - 5 is such a great age - so easy to please, gift wise. My kids are teenagers. All they seem to want (of the things on their list that they might have some hope of actually getting) are cds and overly expensive name brand clothing and definitely no surprises. BORING! My husband says he misses shopping for toys, and I definitely miss the unquestioning and unconditional love. I don't think you can wreck his Christmas - hopefully he can make yours tolerable.
Cutting is a crummy thing to do to yourself, but it doesn't define who you are; it's just a symptom of your illness.
Mair
Posted by Dinah on December 16, 2001, at 7:53:36
In reply to Re: So sad., posted by Mair on December 15, 2001, at 23:32:46
Six years, once a week.
Maybe he's having an off week.
Posted by Katey on December 16, 2001, at 10:43:44
In reply to So sad., posted by Dinah on December 15, 2001, at 8:28:14
you cant ruin his christmas. you are his mommy, and you cant do anything wrong. all you really have to do is pick him up, give him a great big hug (which is good therapy for you too), wish him a merry christmas, and watch the glee on his face as he unwraps his toys. christmas is hard for all of us, all of the added stress and all of the added thoughts. the good news is that christmas is gone for another 364 days in 10 days. hang in there, your in my thoughts
Katey
> My skin burns because of the sadness oozing out with my sweat. My upper lips burns from the sadness that comes out with each breath. My stomach is so full of sadness that there is no room for food.
Posted by wendy b. on December 16, 2001, at 22:19:52
In reply to Re: So sad. » Mair, posted by Dinah on December 15, 2001, at 19:46:22
> Thanks Mair,
> I did see my therapist and it made matters worse. I tried to suggest procedural changes and he was unwilling even to look at his schedule before seeing me so that he could give me a definite time at the beginning of the session without my having to wait like a helpless child as he figured out when he would be available.He really really sounds awful, and he CAN'T be good for you.
>He was angry with me and asked that really stupid question "Why are you choosing to upset yourself and make yourself miserable."
That is the most insensitive thing I've ever heard reported by a client about their therapist. It's on the list of "10 Things not to say to Depressed People." Plus the fact he knows you cut, so if he doesn't know he needs to treat you tenderly and with care, he's absolutely out in the cold.
> I went home and cut more badly than usual for me -used a razor blade. Now I feel really ashamed.
I'm sorry about the cutting. Please don't be hard on yourself, you did it, you wish you hadn't, but you can't undo it.
> My next appt is Fri. evening and I am afraid that if it goes badly I will have a horrific Christmas.
This is the Friday before Christmas? Please, be kind to yourself and skip it. I can pretty much guarantee you that if you do see him, it will break your heart even more, and then Christmas WILL be awful. The best present you could give yourself is to cancel. Trust me. I generally am not so blunt about prescribing courses of action for people I know and love on the Board (or anyone for that matter). But in this case, I think it would be an expression of power (you don't HAVE to see this guy if you don't want to and you think he's insensitive), and you need to feel more powerful in this situation. Focus on your son, try to keep from cutting, etc. You don't need the therp to make you feel worse about yourself.
>I am barely holding it together today with an extra dose of Klonopin, and as that wears off my skin is starting to burn again. I've hardly been able to eat since this all started.
Try as much as possible to eat, even if it feels like you can't. If your blood sugar is low, you'll be even less able to cope. Yo might try Xanax...
> My son is an adorable five year old and I really don't want to mess up Christmas for him.
Everyone is right on this score: you could not ruin it for him, you sound like you love him very much. As long as you express this to him, in physical affection and attention, an extra story before bed, etc., just these little things make a child feel loved and wanted, and it's easy to love your own kid. And that's really all they need.
Go easy on yourself. I think cutting off all contact, for good, with this therapist would be the best thing you could ever do for yourself. It's like a bad love affair - you have to just go cold turkey. I hope you can summon the strength to do this... And I'm thinking about you and sending good vibes your way. Wish I could help more... Please write back -
> Thanks for listening.
> Dinah
Wendy
Posted by robinibor on December 17, 2001, at 15:43:37
In reply to Re: So sad., posted by wendy b. on December 16, 2001, at 22:19:52
Maybe this therapist[sic] of yours needs to see what results from his words. How about printing out this thread and sending it to him? Sounds like he could use a jolt, and a change in his style. You might be doing others a big favor.
Of course, if you do not want to lose him and think he cannot be replaced by someone better, maybe never mind.
But your little boy--and you--deserve more than you seem to be getting. I hope you can immerse yourself in the fun of the holiday with your son...and play and dance and eat chocolate and watch cartoons...that's what I wish for you.
Posted by Dinah on December 17, 2001, at 19:01:58
In reply to Re: So sad., posted by robinibor on December 17, 2001, at 15:43:37
I just made it through the jungle of my closet (Christmas toys everywhere) and discovered that I do indeed have Undoing Depression (how does everyone add that underline). Once I can process more than a paragraph at a time, I'll definitely check it out. Thanks for the offer.
I do think I'll print this thread out, but I'm not sure I'll have the nerve to show it to him. I think I am still too attached to chance termination. Are you familiar with the concept of secure and insecure attachment of young children to their moms? I think I am a perfect example of insecure attachment.
Thank you so much for your concern. The validation I am receiving here is definitely helping with the feelings that I am somehow doing something wrong.
Have a very merry Christmas.
Posted by Dinah on December 17, 2001, at 19:05:38
In reply to Re: So sad. Dinah, posted by Katey on December 16, 2001, at 10:43:44
> you cant ruin his christmas. you are his mommy, and you cant do anything wrong. all you really have to do is pick him up, give him a great big hug (which is good therapy for you too), wish him a merry christmas, and watch the glee on his face as he unwraps his toys. christmas is hard for all of us, all of the added stress and all of the added thoughts. the good news is that christmas is gone for another 364 days in 10 days. hang in there, your in my thoughts
>
> Katey
>
Thanks Katey, that is a reassuring thought. It is so much worse because I used to revel in Christmas. Big tree, homemade treats, crying at every Christmas cartoon. I was so full of energy and joy. One day I know it will be that way again.
I hope things are calming down for you a bit.Dinah
Posted by Dinah on December 17, 2001, at 19:22:54
In reply to Re: So sad., posted by wendy b. on December 16, 2001, at 22:19:52
Wendy,
Your support really means a lot to me. I couldn't believe the statement about choosing to feel bad. It really is unlike him.
I think maybe his regular clientele doesn't include many cutters. I called him today about my concerns about Friday's appt. and he told me that he didn't have any advice about what to do, since he never has any idea what sets me off and sends me into a downward spiral. Ordinarily, I would agree with him. I have no idea either. He gave me the option of seeing him today, but that was impossible. I'll decide by Thursday whether to see him Friday or not.
Actually, if he keeps acting this way, he will do a pretty good job of destroying my ("her") trust in him. I think that would be my only realistic chance of quitting therapy with him from my end. And if I keep acting this way, he may well terminate me (and it would feel like termination in The Sopranos sort of way, so I really hope that doesn't happen).
I can't tell you how I fear him terminating me. I dream about it, I obsess about it, I keep asking for reassurance from him. It's likely to become a self fulfilling prophecy.
As you can see, I am not the easiest client either, and he earns every bit of his fee. I guess I can't blame him for occasionally getting fed up with me.
The good new is I have made a firm promise to myself not to cut anymore, which I have never before done. I don't make promises lightly so there is a very good chance that I won't cut anymore.
I've babbled on too long again.
Thanks for listening.
Dinah
Posted by Katey on December 17, 2001, at 21:16:39
In reply to Re: So sad. Dinah » Katey, posted by Dinah on December 17, 2001, at 19:05:38
my life is good enough, i'm still here, my nephew will be here in less than a week, and for that i'm grateful. and i know how you feel about getting excited for christmas. we didnt even have the energy to put lights on our tree this year. and thats about the only xmas decorations that we've got up so far. i'm also starting to get a little stressed because i've got two christmas presents to make (blankets) before my nephew comes to town. how i get myself into these things i'll never know. i hope youre slowly starting to feel better about this. have you hugged your son yet today? theres no time like the present. and even if you have, one more cant hurt.
> > you cant ruin his christmas. you are his mommy, and you cant do anything wrong. all you really have to do is pick him up, give him a great big hug (which is good therapy for you too), wish him a merry christmas, and watch the glee on his face as he unwraps his toys. christmas is hard for all of us, all of the added stress and all of the added thoughts. the good news is that christmas is gone for another 364 days in 10 days. hang in there, your in my thoughts
> >
> > Katey
> >
> Thanks Katey, that is a reassuring thought. It is so much worse because I used to revel in Christmas. Big tree, homemade treats, crying at every Christmas cartoon. I was so full of energy and joy. One day I know it will be that way again.
> I hope things are calming down for you a bit.
>
> Dinah
Posted by Dinah on December 18, 2001, at 0:12:26
In reply to Re: So sad. Dinah, posted by Katey on December 17, 2001, at 21:16:39
I think Krazy Kat may be right. Looking at my mood charts and thinking about some of my behaviors, I think maybe something cyclical is going on. I'll call my pdoc about a meds adjustment.
It is never a good idea for me to say anything about anyone when I am in one of my "mood dips". I'm quite certain my thinking is distorted and my memory is selective. I have always admired my therapist for his professionalism. I'm sure that I am, of course without intending to, distorting the events of the past week to fit with my current depressed mood. I'm going to make a resolution to never post about anyone again while I'm agitated and overwrought.
No doubt he was having a bad week, but so was I. We're all entitled to a bad week now and again.
Thanks Kat, for bringing the possibility fully into my awareness. For some reason, it is so difficult to see what is happening when it is happening.
Posted by robinibor on December 18, 2001, at 10:38:56
In reply to A BIG apology to my therapist. Krazy Kat all, posted by Dinah on December 18, 2001, at 0:12:26
> I think Krazy Kat may be right. Looking at my mood charts and thinking about some of my behaviors, I think maybe something cyclical is going on. I'll call my pdoc about a meds adjustment.
> It is never a good idea for me to say anything about anyone when I am in one of my "mood dips". I'm quite certain my thinking is distorted and my memory is selective. I have always admired my therapist for his professionalism. I'm sure that I am, of course without intending to, distorting the events of the past week to fit with my current depressed mood. I'm going to make a resolution to never post about anyone again while I'm agitated and overwrought.But, Dinah, I think it is good that you put your thoughts out instead of maybe doing more harm to yourself. This way it was clearer for you to see (and for others to be able to notice) that something wasn't working...maybe your meds, maybe that you could use a little comforting from others.
I hope you will continue to write about how you are feeling. Even when your "thinking is distorted and...memory is selective" there might be something to be learned, some truth in what you see.> No doubt he was having a bad week, but so was I. We're all entitled to a bad week now and again.
> Thanks Kat, for bringing the possibility fully into my awareness. For some reason, it is so difficult to see what is happening when it is happening.
Posted by mair on December 18, 2001, at 12:48:17
In reply to Re: A BIG apology to my therapist. » Dinah, posted by robinibor on December 18, 2001, at 10:38:56
Dinah - I'm so glad Robin responded because I wanted to and haven't been able to. In the first place you definitely shouldn't stop yourself from posting when you're most upset. That's when you may need to the most. Secondly, it's not like your therapist is here reading what you're saying about him, so you don't need to apologize. Sometimes I've needed to post things here just so I can clarify things for myself. It's a lot easier for me to then discuss them with my therapist after I've done that. Some of that may involve separating the raw emotion from the more measured response - people can help give you a less reactive perspective. Lastly, but maybe most importantly, I know my therapist would absolutely want me to point out to her the kind of complaints you've been having about your therapist. Whether it's right or wrong, or overly emotional or reactive, it's still how you've been "experiencing" him and he should know that. If he's as wonderful as you say, he's not going to reject you for your honesty and it may be the basis for more productive therapy. I know this is easier said than done, since it's been a real focus of my own therapy lately that I have such a hard time talking to my therapist about things that I'm afraid will alter or lessen her opinion of me.
What's best of all is that it seems anyway that you're feeling a little better. Please keep posting however, regardless of how lousy you feel. I think many of us have been pretty
concerned about you and want to stay abreast with how you're doing.Mair
Posted by kiddo on December 18, 2001, at 21:41:43
In reply to Re: So sad. » robinibor, posted by Dinah on December 17, 2001, at 19:01:58
Hiya-
I'm sorry that you've been having a rough time of it, and wish there was something more I could do. How about some cyberhugs? (((Dinah)))
The paragraph below is perhaps what really bothers me. Do you think he'd really terminate because of what YOU said in this thread? You voiced your feelings. My pdoc thumped me on the head enough until I finally believe that 'my feelings are neither right nor wrong, they just are.' (not exactly how he said it) It took a really long time for me to believe that regardless of what I said he wasn't going to terminate me because of it. I pay HIM to be there, listen and help me. If I have a problem now and don't think he's 'doing his job', trust me I tell him. Sometimes with both barrels :-)
If you really believe he'll terminate your therapeutic relationship because of this, then that is a definite problem. However, if it's a fear but not deep down convincing reality, (I'm afraid he will vs. I know he will) then I'd say there's a trust issue you need to discuss with him.
There's no rule written in stone that says you have to trust your therp implicitly (sp?) by a certain time... It took me four years to trust him, and sometimes it's still an issue.
I know exactly what you mean about the insecure attachment. My pdoc would probably tell me I'm the 'poster child' of insecure attachment. When I've had that fear-honest to God thought he'd ditch me, I'd write it down and wait until I was walking out the door and give it to him. I figure it would give me a week to brace myself for 'the end'. It never came..yet anyway :-)
If things are better (I haven't gotten to the end of the thread yet) I'm really happy and if not, I'm hoping you will feel better soon.
As for your son; the only way his Christmas would be ruined is if you weren't alive to share it with him. Regardless of whatever else is going on, HE will accept you unconditionally. Remember that and know you're in my thoughts :-)
Happy Holidays to you and your family!
Kiddo
> I do think I'll print this thread out, but I'm not sure I'll have the nerve to show it to him. I think I am still too attached to chance termination. Are you familiar with the concept of secure and insecure attachment of young children to their moms? I think I am a perfect example of insecure attachment.
> Thank you so much for your concern. The validation I am receiving here is definitely helping with the feelings that I am somehow doing something wrong.
> Have a very merry Christmas.
Posted by Dinah on December 19, 2001, at 8:44:31
In reply to Re: So sad. » Dinah, posted by kiddo on December 18, 2001, at 21:41:43
I am feeling a bit better. I am able to eat at least.
I'm afraid my OCD kicked in and I had to "undo" everything I had said. But I was truthful, if rather emphatic, in the undoing. I'm pretty sure we'll work it out.
As for my fear of being terminated, I have no way of telling how much truth there is in my fear. My therapist goes out of his way to reassure me that he has no immediate plans to terminate me, but is very careful to go no farther than that. I can understand that. After all he didn't promise me till death do we part.
I think my fear would qualify as an idee fixe. Believe me, it comes up in therapy often enough. But I try not to bother my therapist with it too often. I'm aware of how frustrating it must be for him. And there are other things I'd like to address in therapy sometimes. :)
My son appears to have no idea that there is anything wrong. I am pretty much succeeding in being positive and loving around him, and my husband is helping a lot. He'll be fine and seems to be having a wonderful Christmas.
This is the end of the thread.
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