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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by akc on August 18, 2001, at 16:47:34
that if you open up to a group of people (who are there for support -- in this case a twelve step group), do they feel a need to tell you what meds they are on as if their meds would solve your problems?
I've been going to a new AA meeting, and have been sharing too much I think, because some folks have been being way too familiar with me. I think I know why I am disliking AA these days, but not alanon. In alanon, the first and most important lesson you learn is that you cannot fix or control other people. So when I share in alanon, I get a lot of support -- a lot of hugs, a lot of concern, a lot of kind words. AA people never seem to learn this (unless they do alanon also). But for the third straight week, some woman at this AA meeting (a different person each week), without really knowing my problem, other than I have a mental illness, told me her cocktail -- and today even said, you ought to try it. I always kindly say, I have a great pdoc who I really trust and thanks, but no thanks.
The bigger problem is that I need to keep my big mouth shut at this meeting. I was seeking support. I'm nervous about this surgery, and I spoke because of that. I had another woman state that she wouldn't let me get depressed -- in this real authoritative voice. I kindly pointed out to her that she couldn't control whether I got depressed or not, and that what I was really looking for from the group was people to hold my hand if another depression was triggered by the surgery.
I'm tired of ignorance.
I'm tired.
akc
Posted by Willow on August 18, 2001, at 19:09:31
In reply to Why is it . . . , posted by akc on August 18, 2001, at 16:47:34
This is just my guess. A. It's either human nature; what works for me must work for you attitude. or B. They are alcoholics. I find when I go to a social function it is the alcoholics who have a hard time understanding how someone can enjoy themselves without a drink. So perhaps it is the same with their drug cocktails. If they get a buzz off "xyz" then you should try it too.
I really don't have an answer but if you get more out of the Alanon meetings stick with them. If the AA is irratating you take a break.
I'm bad for committing the sin of one up. eg. If you think your day was bad mine was worse. ; )
If you ever want to set up a chat in the open babble I'm game.
Willow
Posted by akc on August 18, 2001, at 20:02:21
In reply to Re: Why is it . . . » akc, posted by Willow on August 18, 2001, at 19:09:31
Willow,
Unfortunately, the Supreme Court of Missouri and of Kansas require me to attend two AA meetings a week. I just started going to this particular meeting. I have been thinking all afternoon, and I have pretty much decided to go back to the meeting it replaced. I thought I wanted a change, but I realize that there are several people at the other meeting I do feel close to -- this meeting I thought would be safer because it is all women -- but I have discovered that instead it is a bunch of busy-bodies. I think they mean well, but they just don't know how to not give advice. They confuse being supportive with telling you how to do something. You know -- if you would do it their way, well, then, you would feel better, isn't that right?
I read something, somewhere this week about how to be a listener -- and one of the points was about not doing the one-up stuff. Boy, isn't that hard. I know that if you tell me about something in your life, I have always thought one way to relate is to share when that happened to me also.
akc
Posted by Willow on August 18, 2001, at 20:47:51
In reply to Re: Why is it . . . » Willow, posted by akc on August 18, 2001, at 20:02:21
First time I saw a psychologist it was court ordered. For me being told that I have to do something takes any good that it may do away. I can't get past the part that I am ordered. If someone asks or says they need something done I'm to first to volunteer, but order me to do something and I'll fight it all the way. By the time I was able to accept support from the psychologist she had moved.
Sometimes I'm more apt to listen to a man's perspective. Perhaps it is because there emotions are at a different level than us women? Who knows?
Whispering Willow
Posted by akc on August 18, 2001, at 20:58:15
In reply to Re: Why is it . . . , posted by Willow on August 18, 2001, at 20:47:51
I had been going to AA for well over a year before I reached the agreement with Missouri. And I'm already through almost two years of a five year agreement -- so that is not the problem. The problem is just the support I am needing right now is not there for me at AA -- luckily I am getting it at alanon and at group therapy.
I am glad that you are able to get something from a man. Now you men, don't be offended. But I have some pretty big issues with you guys. There are a few of you I am okay with at some of my meetings, but I don't trust you any farther than I can throw you. Probably won't for a long, long time. You can thank my father, may he rest in hell, for that.
akc
Posted by mgrueni on August 18, 2001, at 23:43:52
In reply to Re: Why is it . . . , posted by Willow on August 18, 2001, at 20:47:51
< For me being told that I have to do something takes any good that it may do away. I can't get past the part that I am ordered. If someone asks or says they need something done I'm to first to volunteer, but order me to do something and I'll fight it all the way. >
Hey, wow...that is me!
I really wonder if there`s some truth in this *zodiac sign* thing? I am not *convinced* yet, but it`s maybe worth to attempt further research? ;o)< Sometimes I'm more apt to listen to a man's perspective.Perhaps it is because their emotions are at a different level than us women? Who knows? >
Yes? Hmm, I would not say that. I`ve met some coldhearted and careless women, but also some kind and understanding men.
Oh...now that I mention it (kind and understanding, that is), may I ask you (all of you, the more the better) for a big hug? You ask why so? Well, when I read ACK`s post about *surgery* I immediately flew from this site (warp 9, Scotty!!!). I did not want to be reminded of my own planned visit to the hospital next week, but now... well there`s no other way than to accept it, I guess. I am in bad pain for about 6 weeks now (they assume it`s a trapped nerve due to a hernia, which is located beneath my last rib). I made the mistake to rely on my *surviving mechanism* - "there is no pain, pain is just in your head". This usually works for a rather long time, I just tell myself "you can notice that there is something hurting, but you must not let it *effect* you!". It`s a good mechanism to cope with a *short term* problem, but now I had to learn that it has quite the opposite effect if *overdid*. Appearing at work despite my bad condition wasn´t a good idea either, I suppose.
Well then...next task for me: learn how to take better care of yourself.Hmm...and once I managed that, I`ll learn how to "cut a long story short". Promise ;o)
Thank you all - especially Willow my *zodiac sign match* :o)
Posted by sar on August 19, 2001, at 1:56:13
In reply to Why is it . . . , posted by akc on August 18, 2001, at 16:47:34
> that if you open up to a group of people (who are there for support -- in this case a twelve step group), do they feel a need to tell you what meds they are on as if their meds would solve your problems?
just to be an optimist for a moment, do you believe it might just be the excitement factor? for some ppl it is religion, for others it is meds, for some it is exercise--my big testimonies are on eating organic on not shopping at Wal-Mart. if someone asked me if prozac and klopopin are a good combination i'd say YES! i think both Willow and Dreamer are on Effexor--i tried that drug for some time and it really didn't agree with me, but if it works for them, hey--just be the wise little buddha that you are and say "different strokes for different folks..."
>
> I've been going to a new AA meeting, and have been sharing too much I think, because some folks have been being way too familiar with me. I think I know why I am disliking AA these days, but not alanon. In alanon, the first and most important lesson you learn is that you cannot fix or control other people. So when I share in alanon, I get a lot of support -- a lot of hugs, a lot of concern, a lot of kind words. AA people never seem to learn this (unless they do alanon also). But for the third straight week, some woman at this AA meeting (a different person each week), without really knowing my problem, other than I have a mental illness, told me her cocktail -- and today even said, you ought to try it. I always kindly say, I have a great pdoc who I really trust and thanks, but no thanks.you live in kansas city, right? there must be many AA meetings--could you try a different one?
> The bigger problem is that I need to keep my big mouth shut at this meeting. I was seeking support. I'm nervous about this surgery, and I spoke because of that. I had another woman state that she wouldn't let me get depressed -- in this real authoritative voice. I kindly pointed out to her that she couldn't control whether I got depressed or not, and that what I was really looking for from the group was people to hold my hand if another depression was triggered by the surgery.
personal question, bit i'll go ahead and ask (and you don't have to answer)--what kind of surgery are you having? again, let me play optimist here and quote the bible (tho i'm not religious): "forgive them, they know not what they do." TO ME it sounds like the woman who said that is caring and concerned enough about you to take it upon herself to not allow you to get depressed but does not realize that it is completely out of her control; perhaps she has not experienced full-blown clinical depression. i think her words are hmmm...pushily caring? like no, AKC, we are not going to let you fall, we REFUSE...
> I'm tired of ignorance.
>
> I'm tired.
>
> akci hope you're more awake now, bay. i've been to a few AA meetings and found them too testimonially simplistic, i.e., "and now i've accepted the lord as my personal savior!" i always wished at the meetings that they'd say, "i really feel like having a beer right now, i miss dancing drunk, i miss drinking and smoking" but in my experience AA has been more like church--what do you think?
sar
Posted by akc on August 19, 2001, at 7:28:03
In reply to Re: Why is it . . . » akc, posted by sar on August 19, 2001, at 1:56:13
> my big testimonies are on eating organic on not shopping at Wal-Mart.
While I don't eat organic, I do share with you the not shopping at Wal-Mart. I view them as the evil empire!
>
> you live in kansas city, right? there must be many AA meetings--could you try a different one?
>I've gone to a lot of different meetings. I kinda know what I need to do -- it is to go back to this one meeting where I felt at home for a long time. This AA thing isn't going to resolve itself easily right now. There are a lot of issues, and unfortunately, no easy answers -- isn't that always the case? So I think going back to the group I was part of for two years makes the most sense. I have a lot of friends in that group and I do feel more at home there.
> > The bigger problem is that I need to keep my big mouth shut at this meeting.
I still think this is really what I need to do -- I talk way too much. Just look at all my posts on psycho babble! :-)
>
>
> personal question, bit i'll go ahead and ask (and you don't have to answer)--what kind of surgery are you having?A pretty simple knee surgery. I'm just getting it scoped. I've had it done in the past on each knee, so I kinda know what to expect. Only difference is that I wasn't crazy back then.
> again, let me play optimist here and quote the bible (tho i'm not religious): "forgive them, they know not what they do." TO ME it sounds like the woman who said that is caring and concerned enough about you to take it upon herself to not allow you to get depressed but does not realize that it is completely out of her control; perhaps she has not experienced full-blown clinical depression. i think her words are hmmm...pushily caring? like no, AKC, we are not going to let you fall, we REFUSE...
I'm sure you are right. But it came across as controlling. Part of it is also that this woman is just loud. That is always offputting. Today it is much better. I am one not to hold grudges too long (unless you are god or my father -- a whole different thread). I know she meant well. She is just not able to see what it is that I needed.
> i hope you're more awake now, bay. i've been to a few AA meetings and found them too testimonially simplistic, i.e., "and now i've accepted the lord as my personal savior!" i always wished at the meetings that they'd say, "i really feel like having a beer right now, i miss dancing drunk, i miss drinking and smoking" but in my experience AA has been more like church--what do you think?
>I have a lot of friends in AA who have come from some pretty harrowing backgrounds who have stayed sober, grown-up and become some pretty cool people because of AA. I have definitely been to some AA groups that are more like church -- I avoid them like the plague. I go to meetings where you truly can choose a higher power of your understanding -- though folks struggle a little with letting you struggle with choosing at all (my problem at the moment). I have a lot of mixed feelings about AA. It has helped a lot of people live productive lives. But there are some folks in AA who can take holier than thou attitudes about AA -- drives me nuts. I have to go, so I am trying to make the best of it. I try to be a glass half full type person, so I try to focus on the good things -- and for me, it is the people, the fellowship. There are jerks in AA, but I just ignore them as best as possible. Trust me, I don't do very well at that!
akc
Posted by Marie1 on August 19, 2001, at 11:22:47
In reply to Why is it . . . , posted by akc on August 18, 2001, at 16:47:34
AKC,
Would you mind telling me the difference between AA and Alanon? And their philosophies? Thanks.
Marie
Posted by akc on August 19, 2001, at 20:28:02
In reply to Re: Why is it . . . » akc, posted by Marie1 on August 19, 2001, at 11:22:47
> AKC,
> Would you mind telling me the difference between AA and Alanon? And their philosophies? Thanks.
> MarieAA is for people who want to stop drinking. Alanon is for people who live with a person who has a problem with alcohol or drugs.
AA was founded by two guys back in the 30's. It is based on 12 steps. These steps are a series of spiritual and practical principles that basically lead the alcoholic to clean up his or her life -- to look at the past, to make amends, and to attempt to live life by different principles in the future -- spiritual principles. Reliance on a higher power -- one of your own understanding -- is a key piece of AA.
Alanon grew out of AA. It is based on the same 12 steps. However, while the steps are the same, the focus seems to me to be a little different. Alanon folks tend to come in having been taking care of the alcoholic or addict. Or if they are like me, having been raised by an alcoholic, they have learned other poor coping skills. So in Alanon, the focus in the steps is more on teaching the person to take care of themselves first. In doing so, you come to realize that your behaviors in enabling the drunk were actually harmful and that you have your own amends to make, etc. You still work the same twelve steps, but the focus is from a different angle. Again, reliance on a higher power of your understanding is a main focus -- that is the focus of any 12 step program.
You can find out more about each orginazation by looking at their home pages:
AA: www.alcoholics-anonymous.org
Alanon: http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/
Hope you find this information helpful.
akc
Posted by Willow on August 19, 2001, at 20:56:11
In reply to Re: Why is it . . . » Marie1, posted by akc on August 19, 2001, at 20:28:02
Thanks for the link AKC.
Why don't you come join us in the chat room?Willow
Posted by Marie1 on August 20, 2001, at 8:11:27
In reply to Re: Why is it . . . » Marie1, posted by akc on August 19, 2001, at 20:28:02
> > AKC,
> > Would you mind telling me the difference between AA and Alanon? And their philosophies? Thanks.
> > Marie
>
> AA is for people who want to stop drinking. Alanon is for people who live with a person who has a problem with alcohol or drugs.
>
> AA was founded by two guys back in the 30's. It is based on 12 steps. These steps are a series of spiritual and practical principles that basically lead the alcoholic to clean up his or her life -- to look at the past, to make amends, and to attempt to live life by different principles in the future -- spiritual principles. Reliance on a higher power -- one of your own understanding -- is a key piece of AA.
>
> Alanon grew out of AA. It is based on the same 12 steps. However, while the steps are the same, the focus seems to me to be a little different. Alanon folks tend to come in having been taking care of the alcoholic or addict. Or if they are like me, having been raised by an alcoholic, they have learned other poor coping skills. So in Alanon, the focus in the steps is more on teaching the person to take care of themselves first. In doing so, you come to realize that your behaviors in enabling the drunk were actually harmful and that you have your own amends to make, etc. You still work the same twelve steps, but the focus is from a different angle. Again, reliance on a higher power of your understanding is a main focus -- that is the focus of any 12 step program.
>
> You can find out more about each orginazation by looking at their home pages:
>
> AA: www.alcoholics-anonymous.org
>
> Alanon: http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/
>
> Hope you find this information helpful.
>
> akc
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