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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dubya on March 28, 2001, at 23:39:45
I AM STUPID because I SUCK. I SUCK because, I have a car (2001 Accord V6), a room in my family's home, I have everything 99% of the population could let's say, ever want like a 475mhz notebook PC, etc, etc. I have 3 awards on my wall from various high school and some awards stashed away from grade school... I never deserved any of them and I am not happy b/c, I can't live a life where I am different from ppl around me... I WANT to DO WELL in academics, etc, I WANT RESPONSIBILITY but, the only thing PREVENTING me is, ME because, I SUCK. I HAVE NO CONTROL OVER MYSELF, I always break into some form of "SWEAT(S)" around PEOPLE, especially when I FEEL I AM BEING JUDGED (by an authority or snob, etc). I SUCK, I HOPE NOBODY in this MSG BOARD feels the way I DO, it bites. I AM ALMOST A PRISONER OF MYSELF because, whatever efforts I PUT in, I MAKE MISTAKES which would otherwise allow me to succeed. IT just ALWAYS SEEMS that the MISTAKES I MAKE ARE MADE BY NO ONE ELSE meaning, I AM DIFFERENT, thus I SUCK.
Posted by dj on March 28, 2001, at 23:55:07
In reply to Yes, I AM STUPID, posted by Dubya on March 28, 2001, at 23:39:45
If you continue to put yourself down so harshly, then that is stupid and I suspect you know better at some level. No wonder you break into a sweat around others, if you are so busy berating yourself. What you describe sounds like a mix of perfectionism, depression and social anxiety. Counselling and ADs can help. However, not until you are willing to show some compassion for yourself...and allow others to do the same.
Sante!
dj
Posted by Dubya on March 29, 2001, at 0:07:24
In reply to If you insist ; ), posted by dj on March 28, 2001, at 23:55:07
Thanks DJ...
Sure, I need to find out "what's going on" but, I think my current views reflect opposing views i.e. I think I am fat but my friends (a girl) tells me that I am not yet I don't eat properly b/c I somehow sunk myself into this. Please bear with me, I like to admit any problems b/c, that only makes it easier in treating them but I FEEL A STRONG NEED to FEEL ACCEPTED w/ppl (no b/c of EGO but b/c of extremely LOW SELF ESTEEM?). I am hard on myself I think but, I am not intending on 'ripping' myself off by forcing myself into false expectations. I can't believe that my AD's are finally making any difference b/c, I am doing a bit better in terms of achievement but, I still have the 'sweats' and so-on. I am embarrassed to talk about this, although I would like to talk about this. I guess I am stupid b/c I put up w/suffering needlessly but, on the otherhand, I see no hope (haven't seen much since who knows how long).
Posted by mila on March 29, 2001, at 2:07:01
In reply to Yes, I AM STUPID, posted by Dubya on March 28, 2001, at 23:39:45
I heard you, Dubya. I get the feeling that you are crying so loud because you are avoiding to hear yourself. for myself admitting that i am stupid was the hardest thing I have ever achieved. no diploma can certify that. Also, i must tell you that this brings a delightful feeling of being liberated.
Another thing that your post made me feel is that you are avoiding being responsible for being different, unique, or special. It takes plenty of courage, you know. maybe, at some point in your life you slipped into believing that having the best for yourself is your best option. feeling stupid thus might feel 'wrong', feeling 'different' might feel wrong, sweating in social situations, or believing that you are fat when you are not 'in other people's eyes' might feel wrong too. the only thing that i see wrong with it all is that you are denying yourself the truth of your own experiences.
Let yourself sweat. Do not deny it. sweating is part of coming in touch with people. It happens in fights, lovemaking, feeling scared, learning, and giving. of course, people judge you. you'd be a fool if you believed otherwise. the point is to judge THEM back, with abandonment! you do not have to be a good person in order to be a Person. your drive for collecting awards seems to show your need for being judged only in a positive way. That leaves out way too much of who you really are.
as far as mistakes... have you ever considered the trial-and-error-and-error-and-error method as an option? drafts are good.
mila
Posted by dj on March 29, 2001, at 11:54:23
In reply to Re: If you insist ; ), posted by Dubya on March 29, 2001, at 0:07:24
>I guess I am stupid b/c I put up w/suffering needlessly but, on the otherhand, I see no hope
>(haven't seen much since who knows how long).What you are describing are signs of depression and the challenge is to figure out how best to deal with them. Easier said than done...
By the sounds of things you have famlial resources and are likely in a position to check out various options for improving your situation, rather than being harder on yourself. You just need the will to do so. Improving your nutrition and getting out can help as well as exercise. A sympathetic ear, from a friend and professional counselling would probably help. You just need to find a way to inspire yourself to take better care of yourself and be more compassionate with yourself.
Years ago, FDR's wife Eleanor Roosevelt noted: "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Consider that...
And take a look at some of the books that Dr. Bob lists. "Darkness Visible", "The Beast", "Undoing Depression" and other books tell tales of folks dealing with issues similar to yours and overcoming them with assistance from friends and professionals and self-compassion. It takes faith, time and effort on your behalf, though...
dj
Posted by Noa on March 29, 2001, at 11:54:42
In reply to Re: Yes, I AM STUPID, posted by mila on March 29, 2001, at 2:07:01
How about taking the position that you will try to be more patient with yourself and forgiving with yourself. The process of working on problems takes time.
Posted by Dubya on March 29, 2001, at 13:23:53
In reply to Re: Yes, I AM STUPID, posted by mila on March 29, 2001, at 2:07:01
True... Sweating in like 99% of social situations or because of being "SCARED"/anxious, I feel weird and am totally lost when I must talk to people. I do agree, don't deny reality but, in my life, for the longest time, the screw ups I've made however minor they are, I feel 10x more guilty than a "normal" person. I am only now realizing whether or not, I have an underlying reason such as an anxiety disorder, OCD or depression. Being wrong is fine with me but, feeling 10x more guilty than normal w/a racing heart beat, etc isn't a good thing. It used to be that, if there was a tiny stone chip or scratch on something like a car or something in NEW in our home that, my whole day or week would be ruined because,
Posted by Dubya on March 29, 2001, at 13:24:48
In reply to Re: Yes, I AM STUPID, posted by mila on March 29, 2001, at 2:07:01
I thought that a scratch or tiny chip would ruin it. I am on meds and, only now for the 1st time in 20yrs, I think, I can accept things for being the way they are. I, like everyone else out there, want to get as far away as possible from the anxiety disorder providing that it will allow me to live a more secure or successful or productive life. I totally realize that anxiety is sometimes a good thing but, most often it is not. Because of this fretting/worrying, I could never or possibly will never lead a decent life of happiness for a WHILE.
Posted by Dubya on March 29, 2001, at 13:33:27
In reply to Re: If you insist ; ), posted by dj on March 29, 2001, at 11:54:23
I agree that improving your nutrition and getting out can help as well as exercise. So far, I have exercised on a daily basis for 1hr/day at a gym for the past 2yrs. Only recently have I noticed a bit of a difference, perhaps b/c of the meds. Nutrition would help but, I think I am harming myself here b/c, I avoid eating as much as remotely possible in order to avoid taking in junk food or whatever, it doesn't help much to me b/c, I think I am fat and have put some effort into getting into shape w/little success except for bigger chest/arms.
Posted by Dubya on March 29, 2001, at 13:33:45
In reply to Re: If you insist ; ), posted by dj on March 29, 2001, at 11:54:23
One of my new friends from college is my best buddy now, we chill during school, we talk, we are like buddies... Basically, she is my sympathetic ear.
My college cousellor and college nurse have provided me w/the most realistic and acceptable points of view for me. I have a faith and that often or sometimes helps, I just need to make it work all of the time if I can...
On another note, I hope this helps out for my situation, my family is getting a puppy Labrador Retriever, I am hoping that my interaction w/the dog will also help me to become "healed".
Posted by Dubya on March 29, 2001, at 13:49:52
In reply to Re: If you insist ; ), posted by dj on March 29, 2001, at 11:54:23
In Jan, my P-doc was going to prescribe Paxil 20mg but, instead gave 10mg Clomipramine upon me telling him that I was taking Claritin/Flonase (which I have been for years). However, in Feb, as my own choice, I quit Flonase and Claritin and to date, I have yet to have an allergy attack. So, I am hoping perhaps that PAxil would work for my ANXIETY part of the disorder. my OCD has improved about 10%, my depression perhaps 10-15% improvement. Anxiety level decrease perhaps 5%. Someone please suggest something.
Posted by dreamer on March 30, 2001, at 1:34:55
In reply to Paxil or Clomipramine were the choices I had., posted by Dubya on March 29, 2001, at 13:49:52
Hello,
Paxil is said to be good for social anxiety my mother was on it for a while [she worries about not worrying]she chilled out without the need for booze give it a try if your doc offers .Keep hanging in there.
Posted by Dubya on March 30, 2001, at 15:36:14
In reply to Re: Paxil or Clomipramine were the choices I had., posted by dreamer on March 30, 2001, at 1:34:55
Yeah I worry about not worrying about not worrying about not worrying. I also worry about worrying. Many times over, I have been told not to worry or to calm down or to relax or to speak slower; I hope I can get over this w/any med. Paxil better work if I get it. Right now, I can't read anything longer than 2 pages or I totally forget. So much for reading novels or making sense when writing essays or posting messages. If I could at least regain the ability to whiz my way through a book, I'd die for that!
> Hello,
> Paxil is said to be good for social anxiety my mother was on it for a while [she worries about not worrying]she chilled out without the need for booze give it a try if your doc offers .
>
> Keep hanging in there.
Posted by julesvox on April 1, 2001, at 10:58:27
In reply to Awesome-Dreamer, posted by Dubya on March 30, 2001, at 15:36:14
trouble concentrating is also a sign of depression. as for the awards on your wall etc., my advice is to try to give yourself permission to focus your energy on your inner life. when i remember that i have a lot going on inside, i tend to be less hard on myself for not showing up for school work relationships family etc. you deserve to have your attention taken up by dealing with your pain. julesvox.
Posted by Dubya on April 1, 2001, at 22:24:26
In reply to Re: Awesome-Dreamer, posted by julesvox on April 1, 2001, at 10:58:27
Thanks! I've seem to learn to hate my inner life just because others don't like it. Also I should admit, not out of greed, that I wish I was better at a lot of things. I always feel like the "child that should but couldn't" (underdog) and I was ok with that but, after awhile, my life seemed in my opinion to be heading nowhere. The only good quality about me is that I talk too much and that I can help to keep people together. I still can't appreciate those things about myself yet, so many great people here, who are suffering more than I, are so accepting of themselves.
Posted by Miss Amy on April 3, 2001, at 20:20:12
In reply to Re: Awesome-Dreamer, posted by Dubya on April 1, 2001, at 22:24:26
Dear Dubya:
Not to minimize your frustration, but I feel your pain. You are SSOOOOOO NOT ALONE in feeling the way you do. Sometimes we shoot for the stars when we should really just throw a rock a few feet : ) I have found that sometimes we tend to place these gigantic expectations on ourselves, and if we cannot attain them we think it means we are worthless. But It is not true. If we set goals that are unrealistic for where we are at the time, we will fail and feel even worse. For example: "I want to be Normal! What the hell is wrong with me? Why can't I meet new people without freaking out ? I am such a loser! It feels like I will never get better!" And then we force ourselves to go to some big gallery opening and practically suffocate before even getting through the door! And then we feel TWICE as bad! There are certain things we have to "work up to" by setting small trial and error goals. You want to whiz through a book? Why not read a couple pages a day and savour them? The book will get read. We cannot define ourselves by how quickly we can read--unless that is how you CHOOSE to define your worth--kind of setting ourselves up for disaster there, don't you think?. i am trying to word this carefully so I do not project my own experiences and hang-ups on how I think YOU should recover, so bear with me : ) If public places bother you, why not meet your best girlfriend in a public place for twenty minutes to have a cup of chamomile tea? Just twenty minutes--or better yet, five or ten. Have you seen that wonderful "What About Bob" movie with Bill Murray? It's all about those *baby steps* we take to grow into a "secure" individual--and it's a pretty funny flick, even though it is Hollywoods way of poking fun at the mentally ill. But I sometimes think that being able to laugh at who we are makes the ride easier. If I did not have my sense of humor, I would perish. Speaking from experience, I KNOW how hard it is to challenge myself. It is REALLY hard to follow through on a goal sometimes--even a really small one. But I tell you what...if you go slowly.....the success will follow. And your self-esteem will grow. NOT over night, but I promise you it will come over time. We HAVE to be realistic about the time it takes to change. And as the quote poetically states: "We will not change until the pain of staying the same is larger than the fear of changing." My mom always says that. In conjunction with small goal setting, it sounds like learning to embrace WHO YOU ARE and LOVE YOURSELF will help too. Positive affirmations--positive situations--even those "little things in life" can make a HUGE difference. If you feel a self-hating word forming in your brain...STOP and then flood that thought away with positive thoughts. STOP before you finish that berating thought and replace it with (out loud usually helps me) a self loving one. For example "I am a loser!" could be replaced by "I am a loving and caring human being, perfect in my own way" " Or "I will NEVER get this right! What is WRONG with me?" replaced by "Learning new things is challenging for EVERYBODY. If it takes me longer to achieve ths goal, I will be okay with that." It might all sound hokey, but it really worked for me. Over time. It took me about 5 years. But you know what? It is like the 48 year old woman saying she wants to learn the violin, but then she says "I CANNOT learn to play the violin! Do you know how LONG that would take?? Do you know how OLD I would be when I figured it all out?" The answer to that question is : The same age you would be if you had not learned at all. So do it. And if you find that the negative thoughts aren't going away--remember, that takes time too. I hope my babbling has helped a small bit. My heart ached when I read your post because I could sympathize. Good luck to you--you will be in my prayers.
Miss Amy
Posted by Dubya on April 4, 2001, at 0:16:13
In reply to Re: In my prayers, Dubya, posted by Miss Amy on April 3, 2001, at 20:20:12
Thanks MissAmy, I am almost in tears to hear the inspiration in your reply. If anything, you were not babbling, you were pointing out some good info. ACtually, the biggest problem is, the negative ideas over rule the postive stuff in my head ten times over. So, when I have those negative thoughts, they are repetitive and my thought processes become disturbed such that, I can't even counteract them with positive events. I take what life or God is willing to throw at us (me) so I have realistic expectations.
Posted by Dubya on April 4, 2001, at 0:20:33
In reply to Re: In my prayers, Dubya, posted by Miss Amy on April 3, 2001, at 20:20:12
Sadly though, either by my intentional creation or by anxiety, OCD, depression, I fail to accept even realistic expectations. Forgive my saying this but, sometimes I feel that I would end up on the street b/c, I 'know' I am not good enough to be. This problem of being a 'loser' has haunted me for many years, even today, in a classroom, I am asking myself, 'what is wrong with me'? Forgive my saying this but, throughout my week, suicidal thoughts appear unintentionally and I feel a remote urge to fulfill the thought. I mean to say that, if my mind depicts jumping of a skyscraper, I possibly go to one and well... Yet, I don't want that. I should mention, I don't want to be a spoiled brat so I feel a need to develop skills to be independent. Though, I could never visualize being independent financially.
Posted by Miss Amy on April 4, 2001, at 0:32:36
In reply to Miss Amy 2/2, posted by Dubya on April 4, 2001, at 0:20:33
okay--my pills are kicking in so this has to be short but sweet--I think you are online as I write this because your posts just popped up. Do you have a therapist? Someone you can trust? If you are having suicidal thoughts, I think you should be talking to someone who can help you. Do not be ashamed to admit this--it is IMPORTANT. Since these thoughts are totally out of our control sometimes, make sure you are expressing them to people like you are--in posts in counseling--to your med doc.. I think the only thing that has kept me from suicidal thoughts is my total fear of the unknown. I am terribly indecisive, and death is far too concrete of an option. I would write more but the grogginess is taking hold. Sweets Dreams to you------write a positive journal entry or poem tonight--be as flowery and feel-good as you can. Even if you are wincing and doubting yourself with every sentence. Good luck this evening! Tomorrow is another day! And we had best see a post from you in the morning! haha!
Miss Amy
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