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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Kimberly April on April 18, 2014, at 18:12:08
I have been in therapy 5 years now as of this month. Many things have improved in my life, and I have made some progress related to mindfulness, emotional regulation, decrease in self-dest ructive behavior, and self-medicating. During this time I have come to "love" my therapist, for lack of a better word. I realize the therapy field is just so uncomfortable with the L word.
I haven't learned or found "the secret" to bring therapy to a close without feeling afraid, alone, isolated, unstable, or unsafe. I experienced a childhood of abuse of many kinds has been termed betrayal trauma some related to SA from a parent, and some from physical, emotional, and spiritual abuse. I just wanted to give you some background, and I hope this helps for you to shed some light on ending therapy safely without all of those old "demons" coming back again related to flashbacks, self-destructive behavior, self-medication, and a total lack of emotional regulation.
I do think about my therapist many times during the week, but that has lessened through the years, (thank goodness!) However, I still think about him a lot, miss him, and have very strong feelings for him. I am not detached from reality because I know we can't be friends. I this this is therapy, and I know this comes to an end. One of the problems is that I know this in my head, but my heart has not come around to this way of thinking or feeling. Please provide some insight on this related to my circumstances as much as possible so I can share it with my therapist and also so it will help me deal with how I feel, my fears, my projected fears of behaviors that my pop up during termination.
Please don't simplify this. I am in my 60's and some of therapy has been totally uncomfortable for me especially related to seeing my therapist as my father when he is 2 years younger than I am. This lasted for a while, and there were times I wanted to crawl under the floor in his office. There are still times I want to feel so close to him and wish he would sit closer to me and just reach out and touch me in a paternal way. There are times when I feel the sun rises and sets with my therapist, especially when he has understood something difficult I have shared, or taught me something from his actions in a situation. Other times I feel like running away because of the intensity of my warm feelings for him.
I don't want these feelings anymore, but it seems I can't make them go away. Please help. Although I don't seem to want these feelings, I still want connection with my therapist, and can't imagine not having that connection in my life.
Posted by Kimberly April on April 18, 2014, at 18:23:21
I have been in therapy 5 years now as of this month. Many things have improved in my life, and I have made some progress related to mindfulness, emotional regulation, decrease in self-dest ructive behavior, and self-medicating. During this time I have come to "love" my therapist, for lack of a better word. I realize the therapy field is just so uncomfortable with the L word.
I haven't learned or found "the secret" to bring therapy to a close without feeling afraid, alone, isolated, unstable, or unsafe. I experienced a childhood of abuse of many kinds has been termed betrayal trauma some related to SA from a parent, and some from physical, emotional, and spiritual abuse. I just wanted to give you some background, and I hope this helps for you to shed some light on ending therapy safely without all of those old "demons" coming back again related to flashbacks, self-destructive behavior, self-medication, and a total lack of emotional regulation.
I do think about my therapist many times during the week, but that has lessened through the years, (thank goodness!) However, I still think about him a lot, miss him, and have very strong feelings for him. I am not detached from reality because I know we can't be friends. I this this is therapy, and I know this comes to an end. One of the problems is that I know this in my head, but my heart has not come around to this way of thinking or feeling. Please provide some insight on this related to my circumstances as much as possible so I can share it with my therapist and also so it will help me deal with how I feel, my fears, my projected fears of behaviors that my pop up during termination.
Please don't simplify this. I am in my 60's and some of therapy has been totally uncomfortable for me especially related to seeing my therapist as my father when he is 2 years younger than I am. This lasted for a while, and there were times I wanted to crawl under the floor in his office. There are still times I want to feel so close to him and wish he would sit closer to me and just reach out and touch me in a paternal way.
I don't want these feelings anymore, but it seems I can't make them go away. Please help. Even thought I don't want these feelings I still want a connection with my therapist, and just can't imagine not having that connection in my life.
We have talked about meeting every other week or once a month, but then he says the relationship would change and what we talk about would change because of not meeting weekly. So when I hear that and imagine what that might be like I pull back and my thoughts just end up in a frenzy of fear. I am hoping you can help me find my way through this maze of feelings, fears, and thoughts. I feel like I really love my therapist, but it is a paternal kind of love. But I also know he is not my father or even a brother. I yearn for his presence in my life. I feel I have never met anyone like him before. He is so real, caring, kind, and gentle while being strong at the same time. This is one of the most significant relationships I have ever had. If it helps to know I my dad was gone by the time I was two due to illness and being hospitalized for a long time. My mom was abuse in many ways including sexual and many other forms of abuse.
Thank you for having this blog, and for taking the time to answer some of these posts.
Posted by baseball55 on April 18, 2014, at 20:19:12
In reply to Long-term psychotherapy, feelings, fears, endings, posted by Kimberly April on April 18, 2014, at 18:23:21
Wow! I know EXACTLY how you are feeling. I went through this intensely with my p-doc. I saw him weekly in therapy for six years. My feelings for him were so, so huge. I told him often that I loved him and he would respond in many ways - you don't really love me because you don't really know me; thank you - there's a way in which I love you too; this relationship is the only relationship we will ever have.
Whatever he said felt painful. Like you, I wanted him to be my father or friend, not my lover. I was in my fifties. It was so hard, so intense, so painful and yet, I got so much from it in terms of learning to express emotions and feelings to someone.
I did cut back. But I did it in the context of finding another (female) therapist who took primary responsibility for my deep depressions and suicidality. The deal was that I would continue to see him for support, but only because I was too attached and in love to end.
Over the last three years, we have cut way back. I saw him weekly, then every other week, then once a month, then once a month for half an hour. That's where I am now - nine years after I started with him. Sometimes I see him more often or for an hour when I have issues in my life I want to go over with him. I think I will see him once a month until he retires. (he is 75).
Is he talking about ending? If not, why not just continue and, maybe, slowly cut back the frequency or length of appointments if you feel it is too intense? It can take a long time to work through these feelings and accept the limitations of the relationship.
For me, I needed to find another therapist to talk to about my therapist. Maybe finding a female therapist to help you work through this would help. Not a substitute, but an addition.
This is hard, painful stuff. I wish you well. Keep us posted on how this works out for you. You are not alone in these feelings.
Posted by rjlockhart37 on April 18, 2014, at 23:43:00
In reply to Long-term psychotherapy, feelings, fears, endings, posted by Kimberly April on April 18, 2014, at 18:23:21
i'm a bit less experienced on this, but in my early life during late teens and early 20s i had doctor dr. terry moody, state his name, he was the best person i looked forward to come see and have indpeth conversations of life....his office looked like deco style....therapy did end, and .... as much less experience i have, try to move the connection.....or slowly lossen up....
i stopped seeing him in 06, but during that whole time was the best therapy of my life....and now it has plundered, the only advice i learned to get is through what i've learned and write awnsers to my own questions....i was deserted with no therapist many years and that's where i learned to use my own insight..... i felt like my therapist where my friends, not saying there not, but the only connection i made with them was through counsel, and advice, not personal talk through friendship......
i would like to get to know you here on babble....it's all where you feel best....there's other therapy websites out there takethislife.com, psychcentral, healthboards.com but they have large amounts of posters, babble is one of them too... wished i could help with something....but yea just keep us posted....((((hug)))))
r
Posted by SLS on April 19, 2014, at 1:51:02
In reply to Re: Long-term psychotherapy, feelings, fears, endings, posted by rjlockhart37 on April 18, 2014, at 23:43:00
That was a very nice post, RJ. I'm sure some people will find it - and you - very helpful. You've come a long way.
- Scott> i'm a bit less experienced on this, but in my early life during late teens and early 20s i had doctor dr. terry moody, state his name, he was the best person i looked forward to come see and have indpeth conversations of life....his office looked like deco style....therapy did end, and .... as much less experience i have, try to move the connection.....or slowly lossen up....
>
> i stopped seeing him in 06, but during that whole time was the best therapy of my life....and now it has plundered, the only advice i learned to get is through what i've learned and write awnsers to my own questions....i was deserted with no therapist many years and that's where i learned to use my own insight..... i felt like my therapist where my friends, not saying there not, but the only connection i made with them was through counsel, and advice, not personal talk through friendship......
>
> i would like to get to know you here on babble....it's all where you feel best....there's other therapy websites out there takethislife.com, psychcentral, healthboards.com but they have large amounts of posters, babble is one of them too... wished i could help with something....but yea just keep us posted....((((hug)))))
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> r
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Posted by Kimberly April on April 19, 2014, at 6:16:22
In reply to Re: Long-term psychotherapy, feelings, fears, endings » Kimberly April, posted by baseball55 on April 18, 2014, at 20:19:12
Posted by Dinah on April 21, 2014, at 18:31:33
In reply to long-term psychotherapy, feelings, fears, ending, posted by Kimberly April on April 18, 2014, at 18:12:08
I really hesitate to answer you, because my viewpoint is biased by own experience.
I totally understand your position. I've been in it myself many years. I have seen my therapist as a mother figure, and discomforted him no end by referring to his milky breasts. In some ways he has been my mother, emotionally.
I would say it's ok to maintain some sort of relationship. But it's also important to protect your heart. Don't rely on his always being there. Even with the best of intentions, therapists in the end hurt us. Not just me but others here as well have experienced this. They grow old and retire, or get sick, or worse. I suppose that while they care about us (or the best of them do) - especially in a long term relationship, we will always care more. And that causes pain.
There are many therapists these days who aren't as black and white about termination. Is your therapist open to just decreasing the frequency of appointments? It used to be widely thought that termination was an important part of therapy. Nowadays even more psychoanalytically oriented therapists might be open to less frequent visits or even to your calling if something crops up in your life where you need to see them. I personally don't see much therapeutic use in excising someone you care about from your life. But I suppose it's also good to gain some distance so that one day if termination happens, the pain is bearable.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 22, 2014, at 4:25:27
In reply to long-term psychotherapy, feelings, fears, ending, posted by Kimberly April on April 18, 2014, at 18:12:08
I haven't posted because it has been a while for me...
But these feelings are familiar to me. I can hunt the archives and find them... Deep feelings... For my Father. And for other people in my life... Therapists... Psychiatrists...
The feelings have passed. Kind of. But that is sad in it's own way. There is some kind of energy. Vibrancy. Celebration of *life* in those feelings. If that makes any kind of sense at all. Sayings... Sort of cliche'd... But whatever sense of truth there is in them... About how it is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. Even though sometimes it sure as hell doesn't feel like it sometimes... What is the alternative?
Unending depression. No... Libido... Something...
Not sure if this makes any sense at all... I just want you to feel welcomed here. And maybe understood... Like you could feel free to share here, anyway. Welcome.
Posted by KimberlyApril on March 12, 2015, at 18:18:01
In reply to Re: long-term psychotherapy, feelings, fears, ending, posted by alexandra_k on April 22, 2014, at 4:25:27
Well, here I am again almost a year later, still in therapy, but will be cutting back very soon. This is not as scary to me now because I know I can come back if I need to, and I don't have to entirely leave yet. I think it's not as scary because I sense I do have some input into our therapy ending, and that helps me to feel safe. We are going on a field trip pretty soon so I am looking forward to that. I do wonder how It will feel when I walk out the door of his office for the last time. I know for sure that "the little girl" inside will want to run back in and give him another hug. I suppose Part of me will always want to sit next to him on his couch and lean my head on his shoulder. I've never done that, and I know boundaries would prevent that.
I just think it's incredibly sad that the one person who I have connected with so closely happens to be my therapist. I also think that this very connection with all of its feelings and closeness helped me to feel again, and to open my heart to loving feelings. Thank you all for your sharing and understanding.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 15, 2015, at 10:05:56
In reply to Re: long-term psychotherapy, feelings, fears, ending, posted by KimberlyApril on March 12, 2015, at 18:18:01
> I suppose Part of me will always want to sit next to him on his couch and lean my head on his shoulder. I've never done that, and I know boundaries would prevent that.
>
> I just think it's incredibly sad that the one person who I have connected with so closely happens to be my therapist. I also think that this very connection with all of its feelings and closeness helped me to feel again, and to open my heart to loving feelings. Thank you all for your sharing and understanding.I'm glad you've had a positive therapy experience. Do you think the boundaries may have helped you feel it was safe to open your heart?
Bob
Posted by Kimberly April on March 18, 2015, at 0:24:11
In reply to Re: long-term psychotherapy, feelings, fears, ending, posted by Dr. Bob on March 15, 2015, at 10:05:56
> > I suppose Part of me will always want to sit next to him on his couch and lean my head on his shoulder. I've never done that, and I know boundaries would prevent that.
> >
> > I just think it's incredibly sad that the one person who I have connected with so closely happens to be my therapist. I also think that this very connection with all of its feelings and closeness helped me to feel again, and to open my heart to loving feelings. Thank you all for your sharing and understanding.
>
> I'm glad you've had a positive therapy experience. Do you think the boundaries may have helped you feel it was safe to open your heart?
>
> BobI think that in the beginning of therapy the boundaries helped me to feel safe, which is what I needed most of all. I always wanted to run away because I was afraid of closeness. After meeting for a while, (several years) I started to notice things like his tears sometimes when I shared what happened to me, his patience and kindness, and a warmth that I had not really felt before. I started to trust him a little, and when he answered my question about why the teacher became a therapist I started to trust him even more. I still wanted to run away sometimes when things got too intense, but then I started to notice that getting close to him wasn't as scary as I thought. I wanted to feel close to him. After this point he gave me a hug at the end of my sessions, and that really helped me to trust him more, and to feel even closer to him. In the end I believe that his kindness and warmth is what really drew me out from behind my wall of fear. Although the boundaries were foundational in the beginning, what really helped me was how he has negotiated boundaries over the years, I think it helped me to feel like I had a say in my own therapy instead of feeling powerless, which is something I still can't stand to feel. This is also what has helped me to think about therapy coming to a close. We negotiated what that would mean, how we could cut down sessions, but that his door would always be open, and I could return. Before this time I could not face ending. I think giving me some control over how we would end, and the fact that I could indeed return, have helped me so much, and taken much of my fear away about ending. We are not done yet, but will be in the future. I'm the one who brings up leaving, but we are taking it one step at a time. I will share with you that for my little girl inside it didn't feel like therapy to her, it felt like love. I realize that many therapists and experts in the field are so terrified of that L word, but I don't know how else to explain to you how "she" felt. The adult did feel those feelings, too, and I think that is why ending was difficult until we talked about it and what it would mean. Therapy was a transforming process for me and for my life. It replaced hate with love, fear with acceptance, and anxiety with peace. I used to want to die, but now I am so glad to be alive. I won't kid you, this was not an easy or pain free process to go through. Having a therapist walk with me on the journey, not drag me or push me, has helped me to heal from trauma. I do feel I love him, feel a deep affection for him as kind of a father figure. Some people might think this is inappropriate, but he is the one who helped the little girl to feel safe enough to tell someone something she never told anyone before in her life. Then he held her feelings in his office, listened to her, cared about her, and helped her to learn how to care about herself and how to have healthy relationships. Incredible as this may seem, I still don't really understand everything that happened in therapy, except I healed, my heart opened, and I learned about love. Is that what therapy really is? I keep asking that question. But I feel I know the answer for myself, and I am incredibly grateful to my therapist for his patience with me, firm but pliable boundaries, his kindness, his tears, his empathy, and his caring.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 22, 2015, at 10:02:54
In reply to Re: long-term psychotherapy, feelings, fears, ending, posted by Kimberly April on March 18, 2015, at 0:24:11
> I think that in the beginning of therapy the boundaries helped me to feel safe, which is what I needed most of all. I always wanted to run away because I was afraid of closeness. After meeting for a while, (several years) I started to notice things like his tears sometimes when I shared what happened to me, his patience and kindness, and a warmth that I had not really felt before. I started to trust him a little, and when he answered my question about why the teacher became a therapist I started to trust him even more. ... Although the boundaries were foundational in the beginning, what really helped me was how he has negotiated boundaries over the years, I think it helped me to feel like I had a say in my own therapy instead of feeling powerless, which is something I still can't stand to feel. ... I think giving me some control over how we would end, and the fact that I could indeed return, have helped me so much, and taken much of my fear away about ending. ... Therapy was a transforming process for me and for my life. It replaced hate with love, fear with acceptance, and anxiety with peace. ... Having a therapist walk with me on the journey, not drag me or push me, has helped me to heal from trauma. I do feel I love him, feel a deep affection for him as kind of a father figure. Some people might think this is inappropriate, but he is the one who helped the little girl to feel safe enough to tell someone something she never told anyone before in her life. Then he held her feelings in his office, listened to her, cared about her, and helped her to learn how to care about herself and how to have healthy relationships. ... I am incredibly grateful to my therapist for his patience with me, firm but pliable boundaries, his kindness, his tears, his empathy, and his caring.
I think your love comes through in your post. Having some control can be key for people with experiences of being powerless. And maybe it wasn't just you opening your heart to him, but also him opening his heart to you.
Bob
Posted by KimberlyApril on March 27, 2015, at 12:59:00
In reply to Re: long-term psychotherapy, feelings, fears, ending, posted by Dr. Bob on March 22, 2015, at 10:02:54
> I think your love comes through in your post. Having some control can be key for people with experiences of being powerless. And maybe it wasn't just you opening your heart to him, but also him opening his heart to you.
>
> BobDr. Bob,
So is therapy learning hoe to receive and give love, opening our minds and hearts? I would love a straight answer to this! Maybe this is too simplistic of a view, perhaps from a client's inner child perspective. Is that what the essence of therapy is?
Thank you...
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