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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fleeting flutterby on April 9, 2009, at 10:13:56
I've been grappling with this for some time. The therapist I used to see (for about 3 years duration) I felt him to be a kind of father figure/mentor, it seemed to be quite apparent.(he was 20+ years older than me)
However the therapist I'm currently seeing(have seen her about 15 months now)... is female and we are just two years apart in age..... I think I'm struggling to "see" what she is to me....
I always push the idea right out of my head the minute it's there, about her being a mother figure, that just doesn't seem to fit right....(could be we are so close in age and also I've always struggled to bond with my narcissistic mother-- don't think I could trust a mother-figure), then I'll think of her as a sister-figure.... but that causes anxiety, as all of us siblings competed fiercely since love and acceptance was ALWAYS conditional growing up. So then I tell myself to try and connect with her as a friend-- but a therapist isn't supposed to BE a friend...... right?? so I push that idea away too.I'm having trouble with this.... I've been thinking maybe if I could just figure out what she is to me(what kind of connection there is...)-- then...then.... I could perhaps let my guard down more and allow her to take that role..... does that make sense??
so, I was wondering-- what is your T to you? a father figure, brother, uncle... a mother figure, sister, aunt...
and -- Do you think it helps in putting a "role" to them??
flutterby-mandy
Posted by onceupon on April 9, 2009, at 10:33:38
In reply to What is your T. to you??, posted by fleeting flutterby on April 9, 2009, at 10:13:56
My therapist (female) is definitely a mother-figure to me, even though she's only a few years older than I am. I struggle with this CONSTANTLY. I've also always struggled to connect with my (depressive, mildly abusive when I was a kid) mother, and I know I've used various therapeutic relationships as opportunities to try to get what I never got from my mom. The reasons why I struggle with viewing my therapist as a mother-figure are many and varied, but include fears that it's "wrong" (i.e., she's my therapist, not my mother), that it's only going to hurt me in the end (because I know the relationship is finite in its duration), and, of course, frustration that my therapist can't actually mother me.
More recently, I have been trying very hard to see my therapist as a therapist, and nothing more. This is nice in some ways, because no one else gets to play that role in my life, and, as you say "allowing her to take that role" keeps the expectations clearer for me. Of course, I still "pull" for my therapist to act like a mother - sometimes explicitly, and sometimes more implicitly. I've found it incredibly helpful (but also terrifying) to talk directly about *our* relationship - how it's going, what it is, what it can be, how it's different from other relationships, etc.
I'm not sure if that's helpful or not. Have you talked directly with your therapist about this struggle yet?
Posted by fleeting flutterby on April 9, 2009, at 14:30:52
In reply to Re: What is your T. to you??, posted by onceupon on April 9, 2009, at 10:33:38
> My therapist (female) is definitely a mother-figure to me, even though she's only a few years older than I am. I struggle with this CONSTANTLY. I've also always struggled to connect with my (depressive, mildly abusive when I was a kid) mother, and I know I've used various therapeutic relationships as opportunities to try to get what I never got from my mom. The reasons why I struggle with viewing my therapist as a mother-figure are many and varied, but include fears that it's "wrong" (i.e., she's my therapist, not my mother), that it's only going to hurt me in the end (because I know the relationship is finite in its duration), and, of course, frustration that my therapist can't actually mother me. <<
---flutterby: Yes! this all makes very much sense to me. Thank you. I also have fear, and maybe it results in a distancing of myself, with the idea that -- like you said-- it is finite.
>
> More recently, I have been trying very hard to see my therapist as a therapist, and nothing more. This is nice in some ways, because no one else gets to play that role in my life, and, as you say "allowing her to take that role" keeps the expectations clearer for me.<<---flutterby: hmmmmm .... that's interesting. I have to think on this some more.
>>...... I've found it incredibly helpful (but also terrifying) to talk directly about *our* relationship - how it's going, what it is, what it can be, how it's different from other relationships, etc.<<
----flutterby: *gasp* just the thought of doing it makes my stomach turn! Wow! you are so brave!
It seems most people here on this forum and others I have read on, do-- like you-- talk to the therapist about "their" relationship. Yikes!! I sense from others here that that should be something natural and a given-- but.... well..... all that has grown to be "me" says -- "No No no! don't talk about that"-- like as if it's a dangerous thing.... yes, it feels quite threatening.
>
> I'm not sure if that's helpful or not. Have you talked directly with your therapist about this struggle yet?<<---flutterby: I wonder if that would be the first step-- talking about this struggle.... sheesh... it would be so so hard for me to do though-- face-2-face!!! *wide eyes* and *biting lip*
but.... I sense this is something I need to do.... perhaps in order to keep the "grumblers" at bay. (the grumblers:-- dysfunctional thoughts and actions that one listens to and/or does, as that is how one has survived-- but the grumblers don't realize how sabotaging they can be)thank you for replying. :o)
flutterby-mandy
Posted by onceupon on April 9, 2009, at 14:45:02
In reply to Re: What is your T. to you?? » onceupon, posted by fleeting flutterby on April 9, 2009, at 14:30:52
As for talking with my therapist directly about our relationship, I should add that it's taken me almost 2 years of therapy with her to get to the point where I'm able to swallow the anxiety enough (with her help) to have these discussions. And I started by sending her several long emails about the topic before I could bring it up face-to-face. I went in to so many sessions determined to talk about it, but just froze. The emails were a nice way to work with that, but I still twist with anxiety when discussing it.
I've started to ask my therapist for a lot of reassurance around these discussions, too. Just last week I asked her if it really is okay to talk about this - it feels so taboo somehow. She patiently reassured me that she is perfectly fine with it, and that it's important that I'm okay with it too.
I know others have written on this board that most therapists should have training in discussing the therapeutic relationship - but there are also some who emphasize it less (e.g., cognitive behavioral therapists).
If you do decide to bring it up with your therapist, I wish you courage! Know that you're definitely not alone in these struggles.
BTW, I love your description of the "grumblers" - it sounds like you're getting ready to kick them to the curb - or at least the parts of them that are standing in your way.
Posted by fleeting flutterby on April 9, 2009, at 15:50:43
In reply to Re: What is your T. to you?? » fleeting flutterby, posted by onceupon on April 9, 2009, at 14:45:02
> ... I should add that it's taken me almost 2 years of therapy with her to get to the point where I'm able to swallow the anxiety enough (with her help) to have these discussions. And I started by sending her several long emails about the topic before I could bring it up face-to-face. I went in to so many sessions determined to talk about it, but just froze. The emails were a nice way to work with that, but I still twist with anxiety when discussing it.<<
---flutterby:-- no matter the length of time to do it-- you did it and that is awesome! :o) I don't have the therapist's email addy..... I've thought that it would be nice-- but.... for me anyway, I think that's how I distanced myself from the psychologist I used to see.... I would email him and then gradually I quit going in person. feels like I took advantage of his kindness in that area... here he was willing to read my emails and reply back.... and then.... the "grumblers" took hold and I quit going to sessions. :o(
>
> I've started to ask my therapist for a lot of reassurance around these discussions, too. Just last week I asked her if it really is okay to talk about this - it feels so taboo somehow. She patiently reassured me that she is perfectly fine with it, and that it's important that I'm okay with it too.<<---flutterby: sounds like you have a very nice therapist. :o)
>
> I know others have written on this board that most therapists should have training in discussing the therapeutic relationship - but there are also some who emphasize it less (e.g., cognitive behavioral therapists).<<---flutterby: Oh, I've not thought to consider their background... hmmmmm.... again-- something to think about, thank you.
>
> If you do decide to bring it up with your therapist, I wish you courage! Know that you're definitely not alone in these struggles.<<---flutterby: Thank you! I will try and keep that in mind--- I'm not alone, I'm not alone.
>
> BTW, I love your description of the "grumblers" - it sounds like you're getting ready to kick them to the curb - or at least the parts of them that are standing in your way.<<----flutterby: Thanks! I am hoping to, if not "kick" some grumblers to the curb... at least push them really hard in that direction....
it takes much energy, self awareness and confidence to overpower them-- I'm certainly trying!
They've ruined so much of my life.... :o(thanks again-- twas great of you to reply!
flutterby-mandy
Posted by seldomseen on April 10, 2009, at 6:58:19
In reply to What is your T. to you??, posted by fleeting flutterby on April 9, 2009, at 10:13:56
I love your description of the "grumblers" too. I have get/have/experience those too. LOL
I also go into certain stores with every intention of purchasing some items, but then succumb to the "cheapies" and can't spend any money (even if I need it).
In any case, figuring out who your T "is" is a tough one. The relationship is unlike any other that I have had in my life. I went through this whole father thing, then this physician thing, then a magician thing (i'm still kinda in that).
But I guess he's just my therapist. He has a set of skills that helps me to understand myself and the choices that I make. I'm also closest to him than probably any other person in my life because of all I've shared with him.
Maybe your therapist can help you figure out who she is to you. In fact, my guess is that she would be thrilled to help you figure that out.
Seldom
Posted by fleeting flutterby on April 10, 2009, at 9:04:01
In reply to Re: What is your T. to you?? » fleeting flutterby, posted by seldomseen on April 10, 2009, at 6:58:19
> I love your description of the "grumblers" too. I have get/have/experience those too. LOL
>--flutterby: Heh, thanks! :o)
> I also go into certain stores with every intention of purchasing some items, but then succumb to the "cheapies" and can't spend any money (even if I need it).<<---flutterby: Oh! I do that too!
> In any case, figuring out who your T "is" is a tough one. The relationship is unlike any other that I have had in my life.<<---flutterby: that word - "relationship"-- causes my anxiety to rise. Im so fearful of putting the T. I see into a "relationship" description. God, what is wrong with me?!! argh!! I want to, as I feel that is the right direction, but I'm so unbelievably frightened!
>> I went through this whole father thing, then this physician thing, then a magician thing (i'm still kinda in that).
>
> But I guess he's just my therapist. He has a set of skills that helps me to understand myself and the choices that I make. I'm also closest to him than probably any other person in my life because of all I've shared with him.<<---flutterby: that is so wonderful that you feel close and-- I s'pose trust him too. that is where I wish I could be.
>
> Maybe your therapist can help you figure out who she is to you. In fact, my guess is that she would be thrilled to help you figure that out.
>
> Seldom---flutterby: Maybe I could bring it up this week...... do you think she would appreciate it??... really??
hope I can keep the "grumblers" at bay...... they so don't want me to reach out-- "keep safe and alone" is what they say.... (Im so tired of not having a friend- IRL-.. the grumblers don't realize how lonely "alone" can be........)thanks for the reply :o)
flutterby-mandy
Posted by rskontos on April 10, 2009, at 20:06:07
In reply to Re: What is your T. to you?? » seldomseen, posted by fleeting flutterby on April 10, 2009, at 9:04:01
Hey Flutterby,
My t is my t. Well, he is also my p-doc but he wants me to see him as the father/mother i never really had. But it is hard.
I am getting closer to trusting him more than even my husband. Because my DH has his own issues in life and my therapist is there just for me when we are in session.
Now I have a tendency to compartmentalize people, and events, so when I am not at his office I don't always think about him. But this is part of my issue too so it is not a good thing according to him.
Anyway, he is my t and he is there for me. That is nice. Therapy is still hard though. Attachments are an issue for me anyway, so I don't work too hard at letting t in yet. But I am doing some better in that respect at least according to him.
I understand your position. It is hard to define it. What they are to us. But one day I realized that he is there for me until he isn't and that is ok.
He listens to me better than anyone else in life. so that is nice. He also has a high opinion of me which is nice.
rsk
Posted by SLS on April 11, 2009, at 4:37:33
In reply to What is your T. to you??, posted by fleeting flutterby on April 9, 2009, at 10:13:56
For me, a psychotherapist is simply a fellow human being with the education to teach and repair minds. I have never felt that they were, or needed to be, a surrogate for someone else in my life.
Although, my psychotherapist might appear to me to be acting as a parent, sibling, friend, or whatever I need at that moment, I understand that these are not really professional roles that the therapist is taking on (unless done so purposely as a therapeutic tool), but, rather, those that might represent where I am emotionally. I don't like the idea that the therapist is somehow constructing a formal role for either of us other than what is the doctor-patient relationship.
- Scott
Posted by fleeting flutterby on April 13, 2009, at 9:44:57
In reply to Re: What is your T. to you??flutterby, posted by rskontos on April 10, 2009, at 20:06:07
> Hey Flutterby,
>
> My t is my t. Well, he is also my p-doc but he wants me to see him as the father/mother i never really had. But it is hard.<<----flutterby: Yes, I understand it being hard. The psychologist I had seen told me that I COULD regard him as a father figure. like, he was giving me an idea and permission at the same time. I guess I eventually thought of him as a father figure-- but-- to me a father(from what I knew in my child's mind) is someone distant, someone that works 6 days a week then goes and gambles at night and never gets involved in your life.... so maybe that's why I became more and more distant with that psychologist...*shrugs*... maybe....
>
> I am getting closer to trusting him more than even my husband. Because my DH has his own issues in life and my therapist is there just for me when we are in session.<<----flutterby: It's nice you can have someone just for you. that can be a safe feeling I s'pose.
>
> Now I have a tendency to compartmentalize people, and events, so when I am not at his office I don't always think about him. But this is part of my issue too so it is not a good thing according to him.<<---flutterby: You do that too? I struggle to keep a connection with anyone if they aren't present. Just recently I thought to myself-- "sheesh flutterby, it's like those wee little ones that when you put a cloth over the toy, they internalize that the toy is gone... since they can't see it-- that's just what you do with people!"
>
> Anyway, he is my t and he is there for me. That is nice. Therapy is still hard though. Attachments are an issue for me anyway, so I don't work too hard at letting t in yet. But I am doing some better in that respect at least according to him.<<----flutterby: That's wonderful. I wish you continued progress. :o)
>
> He listens to me better than anyone else in life. so that is nice. He also has a high opinion of me which is nice.<<---flutterby: Yes, that is nice isn't it-- to have someone truly listen. It sure does help too if one feels their T. has high regard for them-- it's great yours does towards you.
>
> rsk
>
>
---flutterby: Thank you for sharing... it helps for me to get other's views, insights and feelings.
Posted by fleeting flutterby on April 13, 2009, at 10:27:29
In reply to Re: What is your T. to you??, posted by SLS on April 11, 2009, at 4:37:33
> For me, a psychotherapist is simply a fellow human being with the education to teach and repair minds. I have never felt that they were, or needed to be, a surrogate for someone else in my life.<<
---flutterby: Wow! really? You don't have a void in your life from your childhood or young adulthood? a void that needs filling or corrected.....
I'm thinking...... maybe I don't need a surrogate- anyone either, and that's why I struggle to "bond" in that way. Maybe I am trying to force something that doesn't need to be *shrugs*... can a therapist be, like you said,--"a fellow human being with the education to teach and repair minds"..... and just that?...----Hope I don't cause trouble here... but.... well, I tend to be more emotionally "male" than female, I think(though physically I am very female- love flowers and the color pink and soft toy animals, am petite frame) I just don't know if I can "bond" to a therapist in such a close emotional way. I bet most guys that go to therapy see the therapist as like a mechanic, or dentist-- someone that is there to help fix something that isn't working right...... most guys, I venture to guess, don't look for a father figure, mother figure or hopeful lover figure..... they keep that part of the emotional bonding out of this interaction.... at least that's how it seems to me. So many females seem to obsess and fantasize about their therapists.(I have never done that) Yet, males seem to think of it as a classroom -- with a goal to reach and then to get on with their own life. I wonder if females are in therapy for longer duration than males because they can't bear to sever the "bond" they have mentally developed.... a sort of dependancy...
----I don't think most males want to depend on another person for themselves to be OK. that's very much how I feel too. And yet I know my life is less than what it could be.
> Although, my psychotherapist might appear to me to be acting as a parent, sibling, friend, or whatever I need at that moment, I understand that these are not really professional roles that the therapist is taking on (unless done so purposely as a therapeutic tool), but, rather, those that might represent where I am emotionally. I don't like the idea that the therapist is somehow constructing a formal role for either of us other than what is the doctor-patient relationship.<<----flutterby: I see where you're coming from-- thank you. Yes, I see now, everyone has their own "comfort" level as to the therapeutic relationship-- that makes sense. Most males(not all) tend to be more on the realm of the logical-- "doctor-patient" whereas-- most females(not all) lean more towards the emotional-- "father figure", "boyfriend; infatuation" type relations.
It's hard for me to find where I am......... the logical feels too distant and yet the emotional feels too close.....
ugh....thank you for replying,
flutterby-mandy
Posted by sassyfrancesca on April 13, 2009, at 13:39:05
In reply to Re: What is your T. to you?? » SLS, posted by fleeting flutterby on April 13, 2009, at 10:27:29
Unfortunately, my t is the man I am in love with (he doesn't remind me of anyone...at least consciously)
I never knew my father, and the abuser that I married was the father-figure in my life.
Hugs, Sassy
Posted by fleeting flutterby on April 14, 2009, at 10:32:22
In reply to Re: What is your T. to you??, posted by sassyfrancesca on April 13, 2009, at 13:39:05
> Unfortunately, my t is the man I am in love with (he doesn't remind me of anyone...at least consciously)<<
------flutterby: Yes, that must be a difficult place to be in. And while your T. might not "remind" you of someone-- he could be the one that you expect to fill a void in your soul-- maybe?
>
> I never knew my father, and the abuser that I married was the father-figure in my life.<<----flutterby: I think not ever knowing ones father, for a daughter anyway, could possibly steer the adult daughter, to seek that special love/acceptance a little girl gets from her father-- the adult female ever seeking acceptance and love.
---- NOT that this is you, but it could be part of it for you-----you're in my heart Sassy, thanks for replying. :o)
flutterby-mandy
Posted by Recently on April 14, 2009, at 13:00:26
In reply to Re: What is your T. to you?? » sassyfrancesca, posted by fleeting flutterby on April 14, 2009, at 10:32:22
My T is simply a doctor or a teacher for me. I don't see her as having any other sort of role in my life, nor do I want her to have one. I think my T, however, wishes I could be less detached. I think sometimes I even actively reject her attempts at closeness. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to accept her support, since it's all just a construct of the therapy situation anyway. Makes me wonder why I even go...
Posted by backseatdriver on April 14, 2009, at 14:47:46
In reply to What is your T. to you??, posted by fleeting flutterby on April 9, 2009, at 10:13:56
I'm coming late to this, and (shame) haven't read the other replies yet, but the question struck me the right way. Something like it came up in session yesterday.
This is my answer: My T holds my dreams.
-- BSD
Posted by sassyfrancesca on April 16, 2009, at 7:09:35
In reply to Re: What is your T. to you?? » sassyfrancesca, posted by fleeting flutterby on April 14, 2009, at 10:32:22
> > Unfortunately, my t is the man I am in love with (he doesn't remind me of anyone...at least consciously)<<
>
> ------flutterby: Yes, that must be a difficult place to be in. And while your T. might not "remind" you of someone-- he could be the one that you expect to fill a void in your soul-- maybe?(((flutterby): Yes, you are right; I want him to fill the void in my soul.
>
>
> >
> > I never knew my father, and the abuser that I married was the father-figure in my life.<<
>
> ----flutterby: I think not ever knowing ones father, for a daughter anyway, could possibly steer the adult daughter, to seek that special love/acceptance a little girl gets from her father-- the adult female ever seeking acceptance and love.Absolutely.
> ---- NOT that this is you, but it could be part of it for you---
>
> --you're in my heart Sassy, thanks for replying. :o)
>
You are in my heart too, sweet flutterby....Hugs n Love, Sassy
> flutterby-mandy
>
>
>
>
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