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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sassyfrancesca on February 23, 2009, at 10:05:53
I don't post too much about what is going on between my t and I, because I haven't seen (lately) anyone talking about being in love with their t's (5 years ago a woman named Jadah was here, and had an affair with her t....she went thru some excruciating things, and also had cancer). I wonder what happened to her.
He said: "I trust you with my life."
He knows he has been unprofessional, in other words.
Just a few of the 100's of things he has said: "You are in my heart and in my head." I am torn, confused, scared and conflicted. If I weren't married, I would probably go for it.'
He's led me on a merry chase for 4 years, and i know it isn't good for me.
I went to him for an issue ([probably unlike anyone else's), in that my church was putting me thru a nightmare, and my t is also a pastor/expert in spiritual abuse.
I would have been attracted to him if I had met him anywhere else; we are alike in over 30 different ways.
A part of me is so angry at how he has led me on. I know that some day I eventually will get the courage to tell him that. For now, he is all I have (male-wise), LOL.......
Whenever he says anything that upsets me, i usually tell him point-blank......I said one night: Hey, let's play "insensitive therapist"---LOL, LOL
P.S. If anyone is interested I will do a thread on what he has said and done to me.
Love to all, Sassy
Posted by SLS on February 23, 2009, at 10:35:51
In reply to Is There Anyone Here In Love With Their Therapist?, posted by sassyfrancesca on February 23, 2009, at 10:05:53
I am not savvy when it comes to the types of dynamics that can produce a situation like this. Is it counter-transference, or is it something worse. At this point, it *feels* to me as if it is something worse. I think he has fallen into a temptation that might be facilitated by his lack of feelings for his wife. He thinks he is in love with you, but I think he is living out a fantasy in his own mind. I am sure you appeal to him for many reasons, but I doubt he is truly in love with you because - and correct me if I'm wrong - the two of you have not interacted outside of sessions. You really don't know how you would interact with each other out in the real world.
Anyway, it sounds extremely unhealthy to me, and I also think that it is a breach of professional ethics for him to live out his fantasies by verbalizing them to a client. At the very least, these people should be trained to recognize and process counter-transferences when they occur. Whatever is going on, you are becoming more and more confident that this situation is not conducive to your working towards mental health. You are stuck while this stuff is going on. That's my guess, anyway.
I could have gone for my therapist too - if she weren't my therapist. I put those ideas to rest very quickly. I made sure that I didn't encourage or nurture feelings for her. There are lots of other people out there such that I don't entertain the notion that this person is the only woman out there for me. I decided not to $$$$ where I eat. As for her, if she has or had developed feelings for me at some point, I am sure she has dealt with them. In some states, like the one I live in, there are codes that prohibit a psychologist from having sex with a former client for a period of 2 years. Knowing this, why would I even bother taking a shot? I'm there to get well, not to look for a lover.
- Scott
Posted by sassyfrancesca on February 23, 2009, at 10:53:16
In reply to Re: Is There Anyone Here In Love With Their Therapist? » sassyfrancesca, posted by SLS on February 23, 2009, at 10:35:51
Hi, Scott: Well, I hear what you are saying, but this isn't the Freudian transference/countertransference. Sometimes......feelings are just that.......authentic feelings.
I understand why some people don't understand my (and others) feelings, but they are authentic.
There is a website: AMostHeartbreakingLove for those of us who have personal feelings for a therapist.
transference/countertransference are just fancy words for the feelings which we feel for each other, unless it is the classic (Freudian) transference; in which a t reminds us of someone in our past, and we respond to them subconsciusly in that manner.
Transference/countertransference exists in ALL relationships.
No, he doesn't think he is love with me. He knows my feelings for him. We have discussed it many times.
We were at the American Counceling Convention in hawaii last year, and he was looking for me at the dance. I didn't contact him, even though i wanted to.
I have known for a very long time is shouldn't be saying and doing what he is. I've done a ton of research on the subject.....
I am stuck.....I choose that....for now.
you love....who you love.
P.S. Oh, I am quite sure how we (I) would react outside of therapy.
I don't really need therapy (the church issue was over years ago), I go...to be with him....sometimes I just want to sit and just be....
Posted by Dinah on February 23, 2009, at 11:12:46
In reply to Re: Is There Anyone Here In Love With Their Therapist? » SLS, posted by sassyfrancesca on February 23, 2009, at 10:53:16
> I don't really need therapy (the church issue was over years ago), I go...to be with him....sometimes I just want to sit and just be....
Have you talked to him about this? About the fact that you're paying him to be with him? And how you're angry with him, but he's the only man in your life right now?
I can see lots of room for therapeutic interaction, if you're willing to be honest with him. It would require risk, and a lot of hard work, but you might end up with something far more satisfying than what you have now. I recognize of course that there are probably inherent satisfactions in things as they are now.
But I would wish for so much more for you. Things that will only be possible if you're willing to stir what you have now up a bit.
If you aren't willing to do that, you aren't. I respect that. I do it myself all the time. But one thing my therapist *has* taught me is to be empowered by my decision to do nothing. It *is* a decision to stay right where I am right now. And it's better for my ultimate happiness if I accept that at this moment the benefits outweigh the disadvantages, and that I am choosing to take this path. It makes me feel less helpless.
Posted by sassyfrancesca on February 23, 2009, at 12:30:26
In reply to Re: Is There Anyone Here In Love With Their Therapist?, posted by Dinah on February 23, 2009, at 11:12:46
Hi, ((Dinah)); Thanks for your response.
>
> Have you talked to him about this? About the fact that you're paying him to be with him?I think he knows that...he knows I come in to "play" and sez that "play is therapy"---we listen to music and I just say what I feel like...the only time of the week I get to really relax and feel good at being with someone.
And how you're angry with him, but he's the only man in your life right now? He knows he is the only man in my life......he asked if he is my "surrogate boyfriend." He urges me to find someone; trust me....I've been trying......
>
> I can see lots of room for therapeutic interaction, if you're willing to be honest with him. It would require risk, and a lot of hard work, but you might end up with something far more satisfying than what you have now. I recognize of course that there are probably inherent satisfactions in things as they are now.yes, that is true.
>
> But I would wish for so much more for you. Thankyou.Things that will only be possible if you're willing to stir what you have now up a bit.
>
> If you aren't willing to do that, you aren't. I respect that. I do it myself all the time. But one thing my therapist *has* taught me is to be empowered by my decision to do nothing. It *is* a decision to stay right where I am right now. And it's better for my ultimate happiness if I accept that at this moment the benefits outweigh the disadvantages, and that I am choosing to take this path. It makes me feel less helpless.
I agree with you!Only We really know what is good for us. For now, it works in one sense. If it ever gets overwhelming, or I change my mind, then I will.
Thanks for understanding.
Sassy
Posted by SLS on February 23, 2009, at 14:17:12
In reply to Re: Is There Anyone Here In Love With Their Therapist? » Dinah, posted by sassyfrancesca on February 23, 2009, at 12:30:26
Hi Francesca.
Unlike the others, I really don't understand the situation very well at all. It seems very unhealthy to me. I do understand feelings, though, and I in no way am here to invalidate yours - or his. I don't judge you or him as human beings so much as I judge the professional relationship - of which I see none. This setup of yours is very foreign to me, and I have seen psychotherapists on and off for over 30 years. I have never heard of such a thing. I guess I still have a lot to learn. I am trying, though, by following this thread.
Gosh, you must be pissed at me by now.
- Scott
Posted by sassyfrancesca on February 23, 2009, at 15:38:54
In reply to Re: Is There Anyone Here In Love With Their Therapist? » sassyfrancesca, posted by SLS on February 23, 2009, at 14:17:12
No, Scott: I am not angry.....Therapists should be (and aren't always) aware of the strong feelings evoked in an intimate situation.....together in a room; someone who listens non-judgementally; perhaps for the 1st time....someone who seems to really care; all of the attention focused on you. In other words, it is very simple to form a strong bond. Unfortunately a lot of therapists aren't trained in how to deal with those feelings.
In my case (as I said), my situation was different; I went for some help with my church situation.There's a ton of information about therapist/client relationships on the internet and in books, if you care to learn.
Sex in the Forbidden Zone by peter Rutter (when professionals/not just therapists betray clients)...not just sex, but sexual behavior.
I won't be able to respond until Wednesday...back at work then.
Smiles, Sassy
Posted by wittgensteinz on February 23, 2009, at 16:32:22
In reply to Is There Anyone Here In Love With Their Therapist?, posted by sassyfrancesca on February 23, 2009, at 10:05:53
If I am honest, what I really want to say is "Get out now - run as fast as you can! Get a new T, maybe a female T, to work through all of this!" but I know this would be no easy thing to do. Don't you think there is a chance your being in love with this man is inhibiting your chance of having other men (another man) in your life?
Do you think your T knows full well how dependent you are on him, emotionally, and does he do anything to encourage this? Is he still doing 'therapy' - you say you have worked through the issues you came to him with. I know in some sense you know this is wrong and you know you are the victim but in another sense you are enmeshed and can't escape and don't really want to. It's hard.
Whatever this man gives you emotionally, you deserve much better and there is something much better, and far truer in real life, outside the therapy room.
Have you ever thought of starting seeing another T, perhaps a female T, to help process what is and has gone on between you and your T? You don't have to take action against him, but maybe this would help you set down boundaries - maybe even help you move on if you wanted to.
As for the question: I'm not in love with my T. I feel a close attachment to him and have experienced transference of various kinds but that's what it is - I've never believed/thought for a moment that I could be with him i.e. being his wife or lover. It's a very different situation from what you describe. My T is an old man who has his own life, which I know relatively little about. Of course I react to HIM but much of my experience is based on transference reactions. With your T you know his feelings - you know they are mutual feelings, so you know that your feelings are not mere projections. He has shown himself and in doing so has stepped out of his role as therapist.
Witti
Posted by Kath on February 23, 2009, at 17:49:24
In reply to Re: Is There Anyone Here In Love With Their Therap » sassyfrancesca, posted by wittgensteinz on February 23, 2009, at 16:32:22
My T is a woman. My counsellor at son's addiction services agency is also a woman.
I have had a man psychiatrist years ago & over the years, about 4 very short-term male counsellors.
I doubt I could ever feel truly emotionally safe with a male T.
A couple of years ago, when I first wanted to hug my T, I said at the end of the session, "Would you like a hug?" She stepped forward & we hugged & she chuckled & said so kindly, that if I wanted a hug or wanted to hug her, to say so for ME - not did she want a hug. Since then if I feel like hugging her, or getting a hug, I walk towards her as we both stand up at the end of a seession & we have a lovely hug. She is really nice.
Last week at the end of my session with the other counsellor - it was about my 5th or 6th visit - I felt really a lot of warmth to & from her. A part of me wanted to hug her but I just stood back from that part & smiled instead.
I think hearing more about transference, etc has made me feel somewhat uncomfortable.
Sassy, as to your situation, I tend to agree with Scott & Witti. I find it really hard to understand how it can be professional, or 'okay' for him to have things as they are.
At the same time, I respect your decisions & it seems that a part of you is right 'in' this, while another part stands back a bit & watches. (Sorry if I'm wrong & if this feels uncomfortable to you. I'm not trying to be condescending.)
I want only the best for you.You've been hurt very badly in the past, I know. Maybe this structured, within certain boundaries type of situation with a man is all that feels safe to you at this point.
I admire that you can be so open with us.
(((((you)))))
luv, Kath
Posted by Kath on February 23, 2009, at 17:50:17
In reply to Re: Is There Anyone Here In Love With Their Therap » wittgensteinz, posted by Kath on February 23, 2009, at 17:49:24
Posted by Phillipa on February 23, 2009, at 23:30:33
In reply to Re: Is There Anyone Here In Love With Their Therapist? » SLS, posted by sassyfrancesca on February 23, 2009, at 10:53:16
Sassy I hope this doesn't hurt you but please find a healthy relationship with a T preferably a woman now as I do feel it's unethical. Sorry but even nurses can't romantically interact with patients. Love Phillipa
Posted by backseatdriver on February 24, 2009, at 12:57:35
In reply to Re: Is There Anyone Here In Love With Their Therapist? » sassyfrancesca, posted by Phillipa on February 23, 2009, at 23:30:33
Sassy,
I'm going through something a little bit similar. It's not that I want my T for a lover, but that I want him to support me in my creative work. (I am a writer.) For this to happen, he has to support me in my effort to believe in myself -- to believe that I've got something to contribute.
For some reason, I have never had enough of that support. As a result, I wind up doing ghost-writing and editing, providing for others the support and nurturing I can't provide for myself.
To believe that I am "special" enough to ask for, and receive, this kind of support is really hard for me.
I think you may be having a similar conversation with your T, about specialness. It is taking the form of romance, because romance is a very pure instantiation of The Special in our lives. Perhaps the purest.
You are special. It's not a delusion. You really are.
Yours,
BSD
Posted by SLS on February 24, 2009, at 14:03:45
In reply to Re: Is There Anyone Here In Love With Their Therap, posted by backseatdriver on February 24, 2009, at 12:57:35
> You are special. It's not a delusion. You really are.
And so is your writing, BSD.I think you know in your heart that you have the talent. You demonstrate it to yourself everyday, I bet. What stops you from starting? I doubt it is the fear of failure. Were you ever ridiculed by people for your creative efforts (or lack of them)? Parents? Lack of praise?
My sister was ridiculed by my father for not committing to a hobby when she was a child. She would start something, then move on to starting something else. She just became bored with each thing because it became too easy for her. No challenge. My father told her that she was a failure. This left her with absolutely no self-esteem. My sister is a brilliant writer also. For now, she writes blurbs for trade publications and edits. She thrives on reading novels. She has never began to write one. I don't know why, but I have a guess.
I guess you could use a colleague who truly believes in you to support you and encourage you to try something that childhood messages told you that you could never do.
Just taking a shot.
;-)
Could be way off.
I believe that you know you can do it. Otherwise, I doubt you would have never entertained the idea to begin with.
Gotta go.
- Scott
Posted by sassyfrancesca on February 25, 2009, at 7:27:25
In reply to Re: Is There Anyone Here In Love With Their Therap, posted by backseatdriver on February 24, 2009, at 12:57:35
Hi, sweetie! Thank you for your kind message. What do you write?
I have a poetry website: www.churchabusepoetrytherapy.com (the reason I went to my t in the 1st place, spiritual abuse and he is also (LOL) a pastor!
I've written my memoir: Ghost Child to Triumph (from a child with no voice, to someone who speaks up against injustice), and want to self publish.
I am amazed at my endorsements: Elie Weisel, Nikki Giovanni, Dr. Larry Dossey, Alice Miller, Clint van Zandt.....13 in all.
So, what do you write, and are you trying to get anything published?
It's ironic. I am a dancer, singer, writer and poet, and am working in the math department at a University.
Hugs and Love and thanks for understanding.
yes, for now my love is pure for my t......but I know I want more than that. We cannot help who we love. The heart goes where it will.
Sassy
I have let my t read all of my poems; he is always incredibly supportive and thinks I am an amazing writer (I have been published 3 times in an academic journal).
I understand that not feeling special thing; I can hear it a thousand times, but I still fight those old (childhood and 31 years of abusive marriage tapes).
You ARE special. I hope you will continue/begin to write; I bet you are a wonderful talent. Don't hide it. Life is short.
Posted by sassyfrancesca on February 25, 2009, at 7:31:47
In reply to Re: Is There Anyone Here In Love With Their Therap » wittgensteinz, posted by Kath on February 23, 2009, at 17:49:24
(((Kath))): You are very sweet and hit the nail right on the head; yes I am in a safe and structured environment, although my t leads me on; he has given me so many "green lights" that I should be blind by now!
Yes, you are right....a part of me loves what he is doing (exciting), and another part stands back in amazement that he is doing what he is doing.
Perhaps someday I will give him the "how dare you lead me on, if I were happily married I would never behave the way you are....ESPECIALLY as a profesional, I cannot believe you are taking a chance with your life; I could destroy it in a heartbeat......etc.
He told me he "trusted me with his life." he knows what he is doing is unprofessional
Hugs n Love, Sassy
Posted by backseatdriver on February 25, 2009, at 10:01:00
In reply to Re: Is There Anyone Here In Love With Their Therap » backseatdriver, posted by SLS on February 24, 2009, at 14:03:45
SLS - You make excellent points. What stops me from starting is the usual stuff - not wanting to jump into the water because so often, there was no water, just a mirage.
No faith, in other words! But I DO have other words, lots of 'em. You have reminded me! Thank you!
Yours,
BSD
Posted by backseatdriver on February 25, 2009, at 10:03:21
In reply to Re: BSD: I am a Writer too! » backseatdriver, posted by sassyfrancesca on February 25, 2009, at 7:27:25
Congratulations on your memoir! That's great news and such an achievement, that you have finished a large piece of work and found support for it. Those really are excellent endorsements. Good for you, Sassy!
Yours,
BSD
Posted by SLS on February 25, 2009, at 12:49:29
In reply to Re: Is There Anyone Here In Love With Their Therap » SLS, posted by backseatdriver on February 25, 2009, at 10:01:00
> SLS - You make excellent points. What stops me from starting is the usual stuff - not wanting to jump into the water because so often, there was no water, just a mirage.
It is your pool, now. You maintain it yourself. It is always full of pristine water. You will always be supported by it.
I can support you in your attempts to move forward in your life. However, I cannot support you with your writing because I am not a colleague and I don't know enough about writing.
Not trying insures that you cannot fail.
Trying and failing is a success.
- Scott
Posted by sassyfrancesca on February 25, 2009, at 13:41:00
In reply to Re: BSD: I am a Writer too!, posted by backseatdriver on February 25, 2009, at 10:03:21
Thanks, sweetie! What have you written?
What do you need in order TO write?
What do you like to write about?
I would LOVE to support whatever you are doing (writer-wise).....I can be your cheerleader!!
Hugs, Sassy
Posted by backseatdriver on February 26, 2009, at 10:41:11
In reply to Re: BSD: I am a Writer too! » backseatdriver, posted by sassyfrancesca on February 25, 2009, at 13:41:00
Hi Sassy.
Thanks for being so supportive. I write all sorts of things, including fiction. Writing's how I make my living. I can't say any more than that. I don't mean to be coy or evasive. My privacy is important to me. Hope you understand.
Yours,
BSD
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