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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Daisym on July 14, 2008, at 23:57:22
I feel like I'm wrestling with so many things right now. My injury has kept me out of therapy for three weeks - I finally was able to go today. We've been talking on the phone but my therapist went on vacation last week. I missed him terribly and was worried that he wouldn't come back - after all, I couldn't sit in front of him and plead with him .
But he did come back. And today we wrestled with my depression. I've descended into the depths - getting out of bed each day to go to work makes me cry. I'm having a tough time focusing and it isn't just because of the pain. Worst of all, I'm forgetting the stories - I'm questioning what is real. The younger parts of me are very sad - and terrified of being alone with all of this again. It is so complicated -- my family is making it all worse -- so maybe forgetting is the right thing to do. We talked about forgetting, forgiving and moving on today. Shouldn't I just do that? And since I can't get to therapy the way I could before, perhaps this is the time to just let go of that too.
My therapist said that he believes that eventually I'll be able to move on. But forcing it, or having it forced, is just going back to where I was before therapy. Pretending it didn't happen. Keeping it out of consciousness but feeling suicidal without any real understanding of why. He shook his head and said he just didn't think that was healthy. And then he said something remarkable. He said he'll never forget - that the stories I've told him will always stay with him. And he will hold them, and hold me, until I'm ready to deal with them again. Why would he do that? Wouldn't it just be so much easier for him if I just faded away, out of therapy, out of his hair?
We have a phone session tomorrow. I can't even imagine what I should say to him. I did say today that it would be so much easier if he'd just let me stay in his office until I'm healed. That way I wouldn't have to figure out how to come and go. He said it might get a bit crowded at times and he doesn't have cable.
*sigh* too bad.
Posted by Phillipa on July 15, 2008, at 0:21:06
In reply to Wrestling, posted by Daisym on July 14, 2008, at 23:57:22
Daisy sounds like you're really having a hard time. I hate to be nosey but what injury don't say if you don't chose too. Phillipa
Posted by muffled on July 15, 2008, at 0:30:10
In reply to Wrestling, posted by Daisym on July 14, 2008, at 23:57:22
I tired, but y'know Daisy, you T CARES about you.
Like it or lump it you guys have been thru ALOT together. TOGETHER. So there is a bond. Yes,a therapy bond, but a human REAL bond nonetheless.
He cares cuz you are a nice caring person.
If you faded out of therapy and his hair, he's not gonna forget you. He will think of you and care and hope your doing OK.
You guys have done alot of hard work together. Your T wants to continue to help, and he obvo feels he CAN.
He is in a position to know.
So that bodes well.
LOL I wanted to go live under my oldT's front porch(if she has one!) last week...must be going around!
Take care,
M
Posted by Dinah on July 15, 2008, at 8:36:04
In reply to Wrestling, posted by Daisym on July 14, 2008, at 23:57:22
((((Daisy))))
I find part of that very common after a long separation from my therapist. As you reconnect with the parts of you that you locked away to keep functioning when he wasn't around, you'll feel less odd, I'll bet.
I'm sorry about the injury. As I'm getting older, I'm having more and more sympathy for how much physical health affects mental health.
Is this a general difficulty in getting around? Or is your therapist's office not accessible for some reason?
It's been a while for that injury. Do your physical therapists have a timetable for recovery?
I'm sorry to admit that I didn't realize you were having so much trouble with it. I'll be thinking of you and sending healing thoughts your way. Healing in all senses.
Posted by antigua3 on July 15, 2008, at 13:01:44
In reply to Wrestling, posted by Daisym on July 14, 2008, at 23:57:22
I know the feeling. I don't really know why I feel so badly right now. I have an appt with my pdoc this afternoon and I'm scared to death to go. My little ones I suspect. After a visit to my mother that went very well, all the devastation (and the feelings) of being abandoned by her came back. I locked them in my beautiful cedar box for a couple of days, but then I decided to let all the feelings out and i"m a mess.
Part of the fear is that I don't let my feelings go with my pdoc. I guess I'm afraid too; maybe I just don't trust him enough. But we've been doing such hard work lately, and I suffer so much in between--and he in no way encourages contact between sessions--that I want to get through this.
I hate this! All of this! Like you, sometimes I just want to scream ENOUGH and put this all in the past, but he says I can't do that until I go through the emotions. It's so hard to me to do. But why? I used to cry and my emotions used to spill over all the time. So then they tell you to learn to control your emotions and then after you've covered them up, they want you to go back there. I don't know if I can do it anymore.
You're lucky. You have a T who really values the T/patient relationship. My pdoc doesn't. He's the conduit, he says, but it's not the relationship between us that matters, although I think it does. I think he does too, but he just doesn't put it that way.
My T is away now, too, and I hate her for it. I think I will call her tomorrow (our regular day for sessions) and try to talk to her about it.
But I'm sliding into depression again. It could be the change in meds, or my hormones (or lack thereof), but it hurts; it hurts so very, very much.
I'm having trouble staying out of bed, and then the depression becomes more apparent to my family, which I hate, hate, hate.
I know my T will remember me forever, but my pdoc won't. I'm just a patient.
I hope you find a way to feel better. The peaks and valleys are almost unbearable, but remember that this, too, shall pass.
antigua
Posted by raisinb on July 15, 2008, at 14:58:10
In reply to Wrestling, posted by Daisym on July 14, 2008, at 23:57:22
Daisy, if I know anything, I know how impossible the depths of depression are. I am sorry this is happening to you, but it makes sense if the injury has been so limiting.
I probably can't anything that will help how you are feeling (except, perhaps, drug recommendations :), but I am sending good thoughts your way.
Posted by llurpsienoodle on July 15, 2008, at 16:28:50
In reply to Wrestling, posted by Daisym on July 14, 2008, at 23:57:22
Daisym,
Your family isn't helping with depression... that is very unfortunate. What are they doing/not doing that could be tweaked some? Does Daisym know what she needs? Sometimes we know what we need but not how to get it. Other times we don't even know what we need, but we just hurt. raw.The other thing that struck me about your post is the gentle confidence that your T has in you. No, this thing cannot be forced, whatever it is. It cannot be forced here or there, or else it rips a hole in our being. He is confident in you, even when you lose hope in yourself. Do you lose hope in him? that is the power of the human connection.
That it gives us a reason to live, even as we see no point.You're gonna do great over the phone. Just be yourself, that's all that anyone ever asks of us in therapy.
-Ll
Posted by LadyBug on July 15, 2008, at 22:45:32
In reply to Wrestling, posted by Daisym on July 14, 2008, at 23:57:22
Dasiym,
I wasn't aware of an injury, sorry it's been so long and hard for you to heal. Sometimes stress makes it harder.
I love the idea to be in your T's office while you heal. I think it would help the process along.
Depression just plain stinks no matter how mild it is or how down we get. It's hard to function. I hope for your sake it passes soon. I don't like doing phone therapy. It didn't used to bother me so much but anymore, I like in real life and eye to eye. I hope things are back on track for you and your T really soon.
Take care and my best wishes for you always.
LadyBug
Posted by Daisym on July 16, 2008, at 23:53:57
In reply to Re: Wrestling » Daisym, posted by Phillipa on July 15, 2008, at 0:21:06
Thanks for the support.
Posted by Daisym on July 16, 2008, at 23:56:37
In reply to Re: Wrestling, posted by muffled on July 15, 2008, at 0:30:10
I know he cares. But this is the stuff that is best left to the basement. If it is fading, that should be a good thing.
Feelings are complicated. It was better when I couldn't name them.
Posted by Daisym on July 17, 2008, at 0:05:36
In reply to Re: Wrestling » Daisym, posted by Dinah on July 15, 2008, at 8:36:04
Please don't be sorry. I haven't shared it very much and I certainly haven't been around much. I seem to keep falling asleep when I try to post.
His office(s) are not accessible - both are in historic buildings so no ADA code requirements. One is slightly easier - less steps - the other is impossible right now. And I'm very sad for that loss. It isn't just him, it is all the trappings. He talked to me about the safety and the rituals that go with the office and I kept nodding - not that he could even see me on the phone. I'm glad he understands what I'm trying to tell him because he is pretty good on the phone - it just isn't the same.
It doesn't feel as safe as it did - here is yet another thing that can take away therapy and my therapist that is out of my control. So even when I'm healed, which won't be soon enough, it will always be here.
Even as I type this, I'm aware of how lucky I do have it. I'm trying to dwell in the place of today, not in a year from today. It is very hard.
Posted by Daisym on July 17, 2008, at 0:19:38
In reply to Re: Wrestling » Daisym, posted by antigua3 on July 15, 2008, at 13:01:44
I'm sorry you are struggling so much right now. I hope your appointment today went OK. Where did your therapist go? I've been mad at mine too - I want him to do house calls. And today we talked about how hard it is for me to let anyone be there for me - I find pain shameful, particularly physical pain. I got upset with him - because I'd probably let him "be there" for me around the pain but he can't be. Not the physical stuff. He was quiet when I dumped that on him. Truth hurts.
He keeps telling me to "use our connection" so I don't feel so alone with all of this. And so that I can stand up to both my parents. My slide into depression started when my mother actually called up my father a few weeks ago and told him he should come and stay with me for awhile because I needed some "dad time." His response to her was "No - she just needs a man in her bed." *sigh* Somethings will never change. My mom then called me and said, "I did a stupid thing. You are going to be mad at me." And then she told me and told me what he said. I was so upset - not only because she was given me over to him again but because she then wanted me to comfort her around his crass comments. And I had to call him and say "don't come" - and now he has been calling every few days. They make me crazy.
My therapist was thrilled with me telling both of them to back off. But it didn't feel good at all. It stirred up lots of feelings about being abandoned and being a pain in the a&&. So maybe we have to go through all the feelings but I agree that it is super painful and we need to do it as fast as possible.
We talked about going back on medications but I can't right now due to an upcoming surgery. So I feel the slide into darkness but also feel powerless to stop it. Bottom has to be here somewhere, right?
Posted by Daisym on July 17, 2008, at 0:21:40
In reply to Re: Wrestling » Daisym, posted by raisinb on July 15, 2008, at 14:58:10
Thanks for the good thoughts. I'll take those drug recommendations - I want one that will make me lose weight, have lots of energy, no bad dreams, heal quickly and cost next to nothing.
Otherwise I'll settle for good wine.
Posted by Dinah on July 17, 2008, at 0:31:20
In reply to Re: Wrestling » Dinah, posted by Daisym on July 17, 2008, at 0:05:36
That sounds so hard, Daisy.
Since it's his building that causes the problem, is he at all willing to consider alternatives? A quiet area in the vicinity of his building? Are there any parks in walking distance? My therapist wanted me to still come in on a day when there would possibly be a problem parking. I warned him that if I didn't cancel, and couldn't find a place to park, he'd jolly well have to come down and have a session in my car while I drove around the block. I understand his not wanting to make a house visit (and your perhaps not wanting him to). But maybe there are other compromises?
I hope your surgery goes well and your recovery is swift, so you can go back to his office.
Sigh. Yes. Bumping into the realities of the boundaries and limitations is darn painful.
((((Daisy))))
Posted by Daisym on July 17, 2008, at 0:35:56
In reply to Re: Wrestling » Daisym, posted by llurpsienoodle on July 15, 2008, at 16:28:50
I don't know - myself isn't very articulate or upbeat these days. But the phone session went fine - He still asks the same hard questions and has the same sense of humor. "I'm fine doesn't work with me on the phone anymore than it does in person. If you are nodding, that doesn't help me either." Amazingly, he hears tears. The silent ones that run down your face - he seems to know when to pause but not too long and offered to pass the tissues but he couldn't figure out how to stuff them into the phone line. :)
I've only lost confidence a few times and it is usually the process, not him. The fact that he has confidence in me is scary. I can cope when I can control things or when I know all the rules and how to get an A. But when anything and everything is OK - how do I know I'm doing the right thing? He tells me we get through it all together and that he won't let go. But eventually he'll have to, if only to save himself.
I'm honest but only to a point on the phone. Who I am out here in the real world is pretty different than when I'm curled up on his couch. So I'll be weepy and needy - but only a little. I told him I was going to open with phone joke:
Psychiatric Hot-line.
If you are obsessive-compulsive, please press 1 repeatedly.
If you are co-dependent, please ask someone to press 4.
If you have multiple personalities, please press 1, 4, 5, and 6.
If you are paranoid-delusional, we know who you are and what you want. Just stay on the line so we can trace the call.
If you are schizophrenic, listen carefully and a little voice will tell you which number to press.
If you are depressed, it doesn't matter which number you press. No one will answer.
If you are delusional and occasionally hallucinate, please be aware that the thing you are holding on the side of your head is alive and about to bite off your ear.
Posted by Daisym on July 17, 2008, at 0:39:18
In reply to Re: Wrestling » Daisym, posted by LadyBug on July 15, 2008, at 22:45:32
Thanks for the encouragement, LB. I hope we are back on track too.
I hadn't thought about the stress factor, not that there is much I can do about it. Too much work to do, not a good time to be injured. someone asked me today, "when is?" I said Christmas, when we are closed!
Posted by Daisym on July 17, 2008, at 1:08:33
In reply to Re: Wrestling » Daisym, posted by Dinah on July 17, 2008, at 0:31:20
It would likely take something huge and extreme to make me ask him to make accommodations for me. Phone sessions feel like enough of a bother.
He asked me if I was afraid of dying. I said not really, but it isn't supposed to happen this way. I want to decide when and how - talk about control freak!
I'm sure it will all be fine and in a month I'll wonder why I was making such a fuss.
Posted by muffled on July 17, 2008, at 9:12:48
In reply to Re: Wrestling » llurpsienoodle, posted by Daisym on July 17, 2008, at 0:35:56
Daisy, sorry its so damn hard right now :-(
Your right tho, you will come out of the pit again. May not seem like it, but you will.
Can you meet T in a church office in the area? My oldT worked out of an office in a church.
Daisy, you said "He tells me we get through it all together and that he won't let go. But eventually he'll have to, if only to save himself."
This is not true. I'm sad you said this, but glad, cuz it connects to how I could NEVER understand how come oldT didn't dump me. When its someone else sometimes I can see stuff, its hard to see stuff round myself.
But see, you and your T DO have a connection, and its REAL. He couldn't 'let go' if he wanted to, AND THATS OK. He holds you in his heart. You are there. Maybe it hurts some, but that is love. It just is. I only kinda sorta get this, but its starting to sink in some. Agape love. Voluntary, spiritual, sacrificial love. Love, even if it hurts sometimes. Love of all of who we are, even the parts of us we are most shamed by......agape. This pleases God, let him be there for you.
You can't take meds cuz of surgery? Have you checked to be sure? I found AD's helped when I was in the pit, deep in the pit. Helped me climb out maybe? or maybe helped it be more tolerable anyways.
Can you try to be around safe people when you can? As much as possible? Can you let some other safe people into your inner world? Can you do some nice things that your ikids might enjoy? Does the part of you that is a mom talk to ikids at all? Can you have less of a workload at work? I am SO glad you were able to tell yout M&D to back off.
Do you think I'm hideous cuz I am disconnected from my parents? My sister got a puppy, its so cute. Border collie cross.
Damn Daisy I am trying to find right words. You were hurt bad, but you have wisdom and strength, I wish I could say right things, but maybe this just takes time.
I say prayers for you anyhow FWIW.
You don't need to reply if you don't want to. I be thinking of you, alla you, and wishing you some peace. I pray for your T too, and am thankful that he is in your life, he seems a good man.
M
Posted by raisinb on July 17, 2008, at 12:59:48
In reply to Re: Wrestling » raisinb, posted by Daisym on July 17, 2008, at 0:21:40
I think that one's called happiness :) But good wine is a nice substitute.
A pretty conventional combo is working well for me--zoloft + wellbutrin. Not gaining any weight, though (I have the opposite problem). But we'll see.
Posted by antigua3 on July 17, 2008, at 13:28:10
In reply to Wrestling, posted by Daisym on July 14, 2008, at 23:57:22
This is the end of the thread.
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