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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by rskontos on July 7, 2008, at 14:48:42
In reply to Re: My therapist thinks my situation is hopeless, posted by muffled on July 7, 2008, at 14:19:51
Dinah,
I agree with Muffled. You know the old saying you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. You can not make your mother want the help that is available to her. You father did what he did because he wanted help for her but there are limits to what is to be expected of you with that request. When you try to deal with someone that doesn't listen as she is there is nothing else you can do except as muffled suggested to lure her away clean it up and present it after the deed is done. And say I did what is necessary, I am sorry you don't approve.
Then leave it at that.Phillipa and muffled are right you can't make yourself upset and hurt over this. She is your mother and responsible for her own actions just like you are responsible for yours.
She has made this the mess it is. Either leave her to deal with the aftermath, fool her and clean it up, or say I have done all I can and like the Kenny Rogers song says Know when to fold the cards and walk away.
Good luck, but don't make yourself sick. or bleed your heart over this.
rsk
Posted by rskontos on July 7, 2008, at 16:10:13
In reply to Re: My therapist thinks my situation is hopeless » muffled, posted by rskontos on July 7, 2008, at 14:48:42
Posted by raisinb on July 7, 2008, at 16:18:37
In reply to My therapist thinks my situation is hopeless, posted by Dinah on July 7, 2008, at 11:48:52
Dinah, that is a terrible situation. It doesn't sound like your therapist thinks your situation is hopeless, but rather like he doesn't want you to risk more of your finances and well-being trying to fix the situation.
I know it's hard not to feel responsible for a parent, especially one who's not quite competent--and for some reason, people often feel more responsible for abusive caregivers than they do for others. But I agree with your therapist and the others. There doesn't seem to be any more you can do here. And even if you can, would it help in the long run? Would your efforts fix the situation, or even make it a little bit better? Wouldn't your mother resist more, forget more deadlines?
It sounds like you've exhausted all the potential help there is. You can hire services who send people to check in with her once or twice a week (my family does it for my grandmother, who has Alzheimer's). If your mother won't accept it, though, then what can you do? Honestly, this might be harsh, but it sounds like a big part of her just doesn't want help and will sabotage any efforts.
I'm sorry you are having to go through this. It just sounds impossible.
((((((Dinah)))))))
Posted by Dinah on July 7, 2008, at 16:33:54
In reply to Re: My therapist thinks my situation is hopeless, posted by muffled on July 7, 2008, at 14:19:51
The problem is that I don't think she's actually the sort of crazy that would get her locked up. It's hard for me to think of her as being mentally ill. I can wrap my mind around it sometimes. But I have a lifetime of thinking of her as someone who really really likes to get her own way, at any cost to others or to herself.
And of course she's not all bad. As she gets older, the bad shows more. Or maybe it's just more upsetting to me now without Daddy.
I don't have much time to walk away. Once Daddy's estate is settled, I'll be in control of half of the house, and legally responsible for any fines or other problems. And since she has no money, I doubt fines will bother her much. She'll know I will have to pay them.
If I'm going to walk away forever, I have to decide soon.
It never really occurred to me until faced with the reality of all of this. I wanted to do what Daddy wanted me to do. Make sure she had someplace to live.
Posted by Dinah on July 7, 2008, at 16:41:25
In reply to Re: My therapist thinks my situation is hopeless » muffled, posted by rskontos on July 7, 2008, at 14:48:42
I need to stop being so afraid of her. I've gotten better at dealing with her because I could walk away. But in this, I can't walk away. I'll be legally trapped.
Really, what can she do? All she can do is yell and scream and threaten. Why does that scare me so darn much? I need to stop avoiding and grow some backbone. :(
Posted by Dinah on July 7, 2008, at 16:49:31
In reply to Re: My therapist thinks my situation is hopeless » Dinah, posted by raisinb on July 7, 2008, at 16:18:37
She would only accept help under her own terms. But as I told Muffled, unless I decide soon to walk away, I'm going to be stuck with her legally because of the house. I hate to have to make a decision. I know what I want to do, but I don't know that it's the right thing to do.
I called my therapist today when I started panicking, but told him if he was too busy he didn't need to call. So of course he didn't. Never give my therapist an out. That's how very much he cares.
He really does think it's hopeless. He refers to it sometimes as if he is the person stuck, not me. Perhaps it pushes some personal buttons for him. But he seems to have been avoiding, hiding, and hoping it goes away as much as I have. And just as much a deer caught in the headlights as I am.
But I guess neither he nor anyone else is going to rescue me. I suppose my husband would like to slay the dragons, but he can't. And my Daddy, who was my ultimate rescuer, is the one who put me in this position.
Posted by muffled on July 7, 2008, at 18:57:08
In reply to Re: My therapist thinks my situation is hopeless » muffled, posted by Dinah on July 7, 2008, at 16:33:54
Do you mind to lose the half house that is yours?
Can you sign it over to another family member?
Can your mother declare bankruptcy?
Can you get some decent legal advice?
I think for a few hundred you could get some decent advice on what your options are. ARE you responsible for fines? It may be so. Dunno.
You might even be able to get legal aid for your Mom cuz she is poor, and have it go thru her end. Then at least you know what your looking at as far as financial responsibility, and whether you should just sign off and walk away from the house etc.
This is just practicalities I know.
There's the emotional aspect too of course.
Do you think daddy wouild want you to be suffering over this? I somehow doubt that this is what he intended to happen.
Anyhow, at this point she DOES have someplace to live, if she f's it up...well....
And as far as anger...I could deal with someone smacking me around WAY better than verbal crap. HATE angry words.
This is just a crummy situation.
But I think if you keep bailing her out, your just postponing the inevitable, or, she is gonna take down your household as well as hers...:-(
Its just lousy, but it might be nice to at least have some facts at hand, just for somer peace of mind.
Take care Dinah.
You can get thru this, I just feel badly for you cuz its gonna be hard.
Keep posting if it helps.
M
Posted by Dinah on July 7, 2008, at 19:33:52
In reply to Re: My therapist thinks my situation is hopeless, posted by muffled on July 7, 2008, at 18:57:08
Thanks, Muffled. And you're right. I do need to get some legal advice before I do anything I can't reverse.
I don't mind walking away from anything from my point of view. Even if I cared about the money, the yearly cost will eat up any equity anyway. It's just that Daddy specifically left it this way to protect her as much as he could.
You're also right about my being dragged down with her. There's no way I can be a big enough lifeboat for her and still stay afloat myself. Especially when she keeps poking holes in whatever help people send her way.
I'll call the attorney tomorrow to see what my rights and options are. Once I have more knowledge I should feel less trapped. Funny how when I felt fated to go through this I wasn't as anxious as when I realized I had a way out, if only I choose to take it.
No matter what I do, it won't be easy.
I so much want to remember the good things about my mother. There were a lot of good things.
Posted by Lucie Lu on July 7, 2008, at 20:06:00
In reply to My therapist thinks my situation is hopeless, posted by Dinah on July 7, 2008, at 11:48:52
Dinah, that is such a horrible situation :( and an awful dilemma for you to be presented with. When I first read your story I felt really bad - and yet oddly immobilized and couldn't think of anything to say. Then I read the posts from the others (they were really good) and I realized why I felt so immobilized. Growing up with alcoholic parents, I often felt hopeless and immobilized like this as they seemed to be systematically ruining their health and lives. I have to say that even as an adult I was rarely able to work through most of their problems, which were abundant because alcoholics have this infuriating genius capability to get themselves and you in no-win positions. And yet, unbelievably (at least to me), just as I felt most hopeless, they'd turn around and somehow land on their feet in some crazy way I never would have anticipated. And other people, who did not have the same frame of reference as me, often could come up with alternative viewpoints or ideas about that wouldn't have made it into my brain. But I understand your feelings and how dscouraged and torn you must feel. All I can suggest is to keep talking to people, to anyone, tell your story as many times as you can stand it, and I really believe someone out there will appear to help you. Or she will somehow manage to do things her own way and get by without your help.
Sorry I can't be more help, it's a blind spot of mine, but if you keep posting, I promise I'll keep trying.Wishing you all the best, Lucie
Posted by Poet on July 7, 2008, at 20:11:40
In reply to My therapist thinks my situation is hopeless, posted by Dinah on July 7, 2008, at 11:48:52
Hi Dinah,
I think you should get legal advice as to what to do about your half of the house. It will cost you whatever the attorney charges, but in the long run it will save you worry and money finding out before the property is fined for code violations. If you know who drew up your father's Will, I would try calling that attorney as s/he would be familiar with the terms and conditions. Also who has power of attorney for financial matters if your mother is deemed incompetent? You should find that out, too, if it isn't you.
I can understand if you just want to walk away, but first find out legally what obligations you might have before you do.
Poet
Posted by llurpsienoodle on July 7, 2008, at 20:23:22
In reply to Re: My therapist thinks my situation is hopeless » muffled, posted by Dinah on July 7, 2008, at 19:33:52
Dinah,
you have a good head on your shoulders, and a good heart too. I think muff already gave much much better advice than I can concoct, and you know a lot about the resources available to you. Have courage to contact a lawyer and do the follow through. It is gargantuan, and your mother may be hopeless to help herself but I believe in YOUR ability to help yourself. That much is certain. You gotta take care of you, Dinah, and who best to know how than YOU!?((((Dinah))))
-Ll
Posted by Phillipa on July 7, 2008, at 20:31:57
In reply to Re: My therapist thinks my situation is hopeless » Dinah, posted by llurpsienoodle on July 7, 2008, at 20:23:22
Dinah when you made that promise to your Dad he had no idea that this would happen and I believe he would want what is best for you. Your Mom is getting old and you have a family and responsibility first to them. And a sick Dinah would not be able to care for them or herself or work. See the attorney. Love Phillipa
Posted by backseatdriver on July 7, 2008, at 20:58:49
In reply to Re: My therapist thinks my situation is hopeless » muffled, posted by rskontos on July 7, 2008, at 14:48:42
Dinah, I wish there was something I knew to say. My first and still only response is, please, please, let yourself off the hook. More and more, I am starting to think that generational responsibility only goes forward in time, parent to child, and not the reverse.
Posted by Dinah on July 8, 2008, at 0:01:37
In reply to Re: My therapist thinks my situation is hopeless, posted by backseatdriver on July 7, 2008, at 20:58:49
I took some anxiety medication and am feeling less panicky. At least marginally. I have a plan to call the lawyer tomorrow. He set up the will, so he should know what I can do or can't do.
And I suppose I should acknowledge that I'm angry with my therapist. Not only for not calling me today, but for being so negative too. And for not being any real life help. What on earth is he good for, anyway? Not only is he constrained by his role, but somehow he always manages to be tied up when I'm having a crisis. I can't count on him for anything except for being consistently unhelpful.
Posted by muffled on July 8, 2008, at 0:02:32
In reply to Re: My therapist thinks my situation is hopeless » muffled, posted by Dinah on July 7, 2008, at 19:33:52
>It's just that Daddy specifically left it this way to protect her as much as he could.
* he sounds like a good man. Yes he did what he could. You done what you could. People have tried, and thats good to know.
> Especially when she keeps poking holes in whatever help people send her way.*ya...well said :-( and unfortunately true. I am glad you are able to recognize this.
> I'll call the attorney tomorrow to see what my rights and options are. Once I have more knowledge I should feel less trapped. Funny how when I felt fated to go through this I wasn't as anxious as when I realized I had a way out, if only I choose to take it.*its just lousy, no matter what, its just lousy :-( But knowing you are making informed descions and not just shooting from the hip is good. You can rest some knowing you are doing your best...guess your daddy knew that about you. I think he would be sad about this situ, but at the same time proud that you are taking care of yourself as best as you are able.
I hope the attorney is able to be helpful. Maybe you could write down some questions in advance. Is there anyone you trust to come with you?
> No matter what I do, it won't be easy.*ya...you got that right. But you can know you have done the best you could given what you had to work with. You are hanging on and making the best descions you can. No matter what happens, we all know you did all that you could know to do, sadly, at some point there just is nothing more to be done.
> I so much want to remember the good things about my mother. There were a lot of good things.* of course there were good things.
Maybe you can tell us some?
My ma was OK mostly. She loved us kids so much. I never ever felt she didn't love me. She tried real hard and did the best she could. Just life throws you curve balls y'know.
You deal with what you got, for better or worse, you live out your life as your able.
Like I say, I fully anticipate that I may end my time getting killed or dying of exposure on the street. Seems like my fate somehow. But it will be my choice. I will make my own descions. I just hope my kids can let me go and do what I will do, cuz I don't want to hurt them.
Ya...so I'm nuts...never said I wasn't!!!
Try to find some smiles where you can.
Here's one now comming your way...catch it!
:-)...no! TWO!!!!
:-)
Take care,
M
Posted by muffled on July 8, 2008, at 0:11:22
In reply to Thanks everyone, posted by Dinah on July 8, 2008, at 0:01:37
> And I suppose I should acknowledge that I'm angry with my therapist. Not only for not calling me today, but for being so negative too. And for not being any real life help. What on earth is he good for, anyway? Not only is he constrained by his role, but somehow he always manages to be tied up when I'm having a crisis. I can't count on him for anything except for being consistently unhelpful.
*hmmmm, yeah, I reckon I kinda pissed at him too, you can say I said that.
However, that being said...you guys do seem to have this kinda cool relationship....
So maybe he will come round. He usually does once you give him sh*t.
So I guess he IS there for you...just in his own funny way.
Which, while incredibly frustrating, seems to mostly give you something to hang onto somehow.
It was kinda that way with my old T.
You just give him a good Dinah-style talking to, like you know how to do.
Let us know how it goes...
(((Dinah)))
You not alone, we all here with you, as best we can in cyberspace.
Least we can validate that your concerns are on target and you not off in left field somewhere.
You thinking is on target.
This is just damn hard.
Take care,
M
Posted by Dinah on July 8, 2008, at 8:43:01
In reply to Re: Thanks everyone, posted by muffled on July 8, 2008, at 0:11:22
Now what good is that? He called while I was getting ready to see him to tell me that he realized that he had forgotten to call me yesterday. That he started to call me several times, but forgot or got distracted then it slipped his mind.
Wow. I feel better. Love to be forgotten and mind slipped.
I also realized why I'm more annoyed with him than usual. Last session he made a joke about my mother driving me to slit my throat. I sorta don't find that funny.
Plus, I think I'm sick. Cold or allergies. That probably is influencing my views too. :(
Posted by Dinah on July 8, 2008, at 8:49:06
In reply to Re: Muffled thinks my situation is hard..., posted by muffled on July 8, 2008, at 0:02:32
> * he sounds like a good man. Yes he did what he could. You done what you could. People have tried, and thats good to know.
Yeah. He was a good man. Not flawless, but a good man who tried to take care of his family. Almost to a fault.
> Like I say, I fully anticipate that I may end my time getting killed or dying of exposure on the street. Seems like my fate somehow. But it will be my choice. I will make my own descions. I just hope my kids can let me go and do what I will do, cuz I don't want to hurt them.
Now I have to be selfish there, and say that I hope that isn't your fate. That instead you live a long life that ends at a very old age peacefully of natural causes, with your children by your side. That's how Daddy died, and it seemed like a not bad way to go, since going is inevitable. I care about you too much to want to see you hurt.
Posted by muffled on July 8, 2008, at 9:04:09
In reply to He called this morning! (Mild trigger?), posted by Dinah on July 8, 2008, at 8:43:01
> Now what good is that? He called while I was getting ready to see him to tell me that he realized that he had forgotten to call me yesterday. That he started to call me several times, but forgot or got distracted then it slipped his mind.
>
> Wow. I feel better. Love to be forgotten and mind slipped.*UGH!!! Manoman, my oldT said same type things! It would SO piss me off. DUUUUUUUUUUHHHHH, do they NOT have a clue how that must come across????? Like twice my T said when I say to her 'we never go for a walk, you said we might walk...', she wrote or phoned and said 'oh I WAS going to phone you but my kids came over for a visit and talked and talked...' OH...OK so your kids who you see at least several times a week made you completely dump me, wh you not seen in THREE weeks....OOOOOOOOOOO K....I feel valued....
Sigh.
Guess the T's are only human....
> I also realized why I'm more annoyed with him than usual. Last session he made a joke about my mother driving me to slit my throat. I sorta don't find that funny.* I hope you tell him that, he should know that comment was in poor taste.
> Plus, I think I'm sick. Cold or allergies. That probably is influencing my views too. :(
*ya, stress can make you more susceptable to illness, and illness makes things more stressful....arrrgggh.
You'll get thru this.
Tough row to hoe. (I was a farmer)
Take care,
Be kind but FIRM in explaining to T what you want/need from him, and ask him point blank, is he willing to step up to the plate for you cuz this is a REALLY hard time for you, and FORGETTING to call just does NOT cut it.
Take care,
M
(PS...as for my fate, thats what makes it seem inevitable....cuz oddly, it does not seem a bad fate to me...if it is my choice to do so...)
Posted by Dinah on July 8, 2008, at 11:59:44
In reply to Re: He called this morning! (Mild trigger?), posted by muffled on July 8, 2008, at 9:04:09
I always thought my therapist and your old therapist were therapist-twins. They have almost identical strengths and weaknesses.
He apologized of course, and asked if I would forgive him. I reminded him this was hardly a new behavior and if I forgave him all the other times, I'm sure to forgive him this time. But that it did make me feel kind of alone in this. I think he was a bit annoyed that I hadn't forgotten the other times. And reminded me of the times he *had* called me back. True enough. But I find it helpful to me to remember that he might not be all that reliable, so that I'm not hurt so much each time.
And I'm glad I remembered the joke, and that it irritated me. He of course didn't remember, but said something like "Noted." in response to my saying I didn't find it particularly funny since I seriously worried about that myself.
Thanks for all your support, Muffled.
(((Muffled)))
Posted by All Done on July 9, 2008, at 14:47:14
In reply to My therapist thinks my situation is hopeless, posted by Dinah on July 7, 2008, at 11:48:52
Hi, Dinah.
I'm a few days late and probably a few dollars short to this thread, but I wanted you to know I understand and feel your pain. My mom somehow manages to put me between a rock and a hard place quite a bit. The thing is, she's the one who usually pulls the rock over toward herself and me, and I think *she* is the hard place. She won't budge to make things better for herself (or me, for that matter). She wants me to move the rock, and if I don't, I have to deal with her and her misery, which won't budge one bit because she doesn't want it to. It's her way of life now, and unfortunately, it's all she understands and feels comfortable with.
I don't know if I'm making any sense. I just know that being in a situation like yours does feel hopeless. If you can just somehow move the rock a little, tiny bit or lean up against your mom for a short moment, maybe you can squeeze your way out. Maybe the attorney can help you figure out the best way to do that without getting too scratched up in the process? Did you speak with him, yet?
Good luck with everything. I know this is hard.
(((((Dinah)))))
Laurie
Posted by Dinah on July 9, 2008, at 17:19:59
In reply to Re: My therapist thinks my situation is hopeless » Dinah, posted by All Done on July 9, 2008, at 14:47:14
I did speak to the attorney, and spoke to him with my mother. She responded to him the way she does to everyone. What it comes down to is that I do have the right to do what needs to be done to keep the place up to code. But that it will be a fight every time.
My mother and I actually left on pretty good terms, and she actually acknowledged that the weeds in a couple of places weren't as well kept as she had thought.
But it *hurt*. I remember now why I mind all of the screaming and yelling. It *hurts*. I get overstimulated and my nerve endings feel on fire. Then I'm incapacitated for the day. Maybe I should have better control of my nerves, but I doubt I ever will. It just hurts.
I just have to face that the rest of my life will be hellish at times.
Thanks Laurie. I do know you understand. And I'm sorry for that.
Posted by Midnightblue on July 10, 2008, at 0:37:31
In reply to Re: My therapist thinks my situation is hopeless » All Done, posted by Dinah on July 9, 2008, at 17:19:59
Dinah,
Thinking of you....not smart enough right now to be wise.
MidnightBlue
Posted by Dinah on July 10, 2008, at 11:31:36
In reply to Re: My therapist thinks my situation is hopeless » Dinah, posted by Midnightblue on July 10, 2008, at 0:37:31
I'm not sure wise works with my mother anyway. :)
I had the strangest dream last night. So vivid that I wasn't sure it was a dream when I first woke up.
The person who is currently living with my mother and helping her with her house had gotten a part time job because she can no longer pay him. And my mother was telling me she was so scared. That of course she thought about the future and she was so scared. That she thought about killing herself, her future seemed so bleak. And that she was just trying to control everything so that she wouldn't lose everything. I woke up feeling positively sorry for her.
And of course, none of those things is anything my mother would ever say. She's continually almost delusionally optimistic. In part because she always has gotten away with a remarkable amount. Medically, safety, financially. She puts herself in horrible situations yet somehow comes out just fine.
She told me the other day that she wouldn't live forever. And that she doesn't know why I go on the assumption that she will. But I swear she's not going to die one second before she wishes to. Her will is so unbelievably strong; she's both the immovable rock and the unstoppable force. Death will turn and run screaming away from her if he tries to take her before she wants to go.
Sigh.
I've got not so much will. My husband says I have plenty of will. Just not in comparison with her.
Posted by Midnightblue on July 10, 2008, at 14:52:12
In reply to Re: My therapist thinks my situation is hopeless » Midnightblue, posted by Dinah on July 10, 2008, at 11:31:36
Dinah,
For years my Mom would say almost every day your grandpa will die soon. She started this when he was in his 50s, and he was 80 when he died. My whole life she said he is dying, he is dying. He really wasn't sick at all! She was just afraid he would die.
My grandmother was a tough old bird that hung on to her mid-90s and that included 10 years in a nursing home after she broke both bones in her lower leg.
Now my Mom is nearing 80 and I think she has the toughness of HER Mom though my sister thinks/hopes? she will just suddenly drop dead any time now. I keep hearing that Mom is going to drop dead and what are we going to do with Dad?
Well Dad has said he would rather live under a bridge then live in a nursing home. He already has serious memory problems and can't be left alone. His sister is 8 years older and knows no one. His grandfather died at 99 totally out of his head. Looks like we are in it for the long haul.
If you have the energy and desire, salvage the 10% of what your Mom has in storage that is good. Any famly pictures? etc... or true treasures? and tell her the rest must be sold (or junked). Get someone to fix up at least part of the house. Maybe call that church again and offer a donation to their youth program in exchange for help and even yard care.
MB
p.s. That is the best of all I have and it isn't much!
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